To our liberal, progressive friends on here...

[Katscratch]

You obviously don't work in corporate America.
The CEOs job is deliver share holder value and reward faith and investment in the company. It's not to be a nice guy and make everyone like him. It's to deliver results, period. Trump does that. You may not like how he goes about it, but you can't argue with the results.
Again, you can't separate personality from policy, which is how we ended up with Biden, who, by almost all accounts, has been a terrible POTUS. But hey, at least he's a nice guy and doesn't mean tweet.....right?

I have worked in corporate America. And well stated...Yes, a CEO's job is to "deliver share holder value and reward faith and investment in the company." And agreed, it's not enough to be a nice guy and make everyone like him. Though interestingly enough, the vast majority of our best-regarded Presidents were "nice" guys and really quality people; look it up - Washington, Lincoln, Truman, Eisenhower, Madison, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, Reagan, Obama. A few of them also womanizers, but invariably "nice."

But as you said; it's about results.

And yes; I can argue about the results; in fact, a large part of America, and even more nations worldwide were appalled by the results. Because faith in American Government and America's place as, per Reagan, the "shining light on a hill" was extraordinarily damaged by an American President that, for starters:

• cozied up to dictators, "They seem to like me, I'm not sure why!"
• ignored the rule of law (unless it was personally beneficial to him),
• dealt in and constantly promoted conspiracy theories (deep state anyone? Fake media?/They're coming for your country)
• made insults and division a regular and featured way of communicating (it's ridiculous that one bad quote from Michelle Obama gets pages here, but Trump says worse on almost a daily basis).
• Spent years investing in the concept that so much of America is rigged, but only when it was convenient for Trump to assert it, culminating in the whole freaking planet watching our Capitol overrun by idiots with Trump flags, Confederate flags, flags with AR-15s on them, and shouting "hang Mike Pence" and "Where's Nancy?" The whole world saw Trump's Presidency culminate with that display of violence, disrespect, and anti-democratic lawlessness while Trump cheered them on. And continues to do so.

So the results as a leader? As a Chief Executive? They truly stunk. They severely damaged faith in America. They were a disaster. And he doesn't change; he doubles down on his worst leadership qualities and conspiracy theories on a daily basis.

 

[BNIBoiler]

This is debatable from an economic impact perspective. The intention was to bring back more steel manufacturing jobs and prevent China from dumping steel on the US and deflating prices.

That's pretty vague. Do you mean when he fast tracked the vaccine? I thought libs like yourseld were in favor of vaccine mandates?

You love this dem lefty lib talking point but you only parrot it, you don't understand what it means.

it was in process until dems stopped it. Funny thing is, Biden is rebuilding a wall. Weird how that turned out.

Living in NW Indiana, the steel capital of North America, I initially liked the tariffs on China steel idea. Our democratic congressman plus congressman from other US steel making areas like Pittsburgh and Birmingham, AL fought for this. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a horrible policy. It definitely turned out to be a trade war. I think US farmers and subsequently US consumers ended up in the middle of this trade war with soybeans and corn.

Chump had republican control of the Senate and Congress and still was not able to convince his repubs to allocate money for this beautiful wall. In 2018, the repubs lost control of the House. It took Pelosi and the dem controlled house to allocate a small fraction of money for the small portion of the beautiful wall that was built plus repairing parts of the existing wall.

 

[Katscratch]

Chump had republican control of the Senate and Congress and still was not able to convince his repubs to allocate money for this beautiful wall. In 2018, the repubs lost control of the House. It took Pelosi and the dem controlled house to allocate a small fraction of money for the small portion of the beautiful wall that was built plus repairing parts of the existing wall.

There was never going to be a wall that was functionally effective; there are too many miles and too many means of getting into the country by foot or water. An electric/digital detection virtual fence that sends an electric volt into someone? Maybe. That visual of a big cement wall was just a political talking point.

And besides, the majority of illegal immigration is from overstays, not people who tunnel into a border state. Why spend (just as much) money, and time crawling past barbed wire when you can buy a plane ticket from Mexico City, Bucharest, or Honduras on a work visa and simply not buy a return ticket.

IMO? The only way to reduce (not eliminate) illegal immigration is to make getting caught truly a miserable experience; along the lines of "no time to say goodbye - walk them all the way back to the closest border even if you're caught in Kansas."

 

[BNIBoiler]

You are absolutely correct. The majority of the illegal immigration are from folks overstaying their visas.

For me, to stop illegal immigration is to enforce any laws that will prevent US companies from hiring these folks. Or enhance existing illegal immigrant hiring laws if they are not substantial enough. Either way, if there are no jobs for them, most will not come.

 

[Katscratch]

You are absolutely correct. The majority of the illegal immigration are from folks overstaying their visas.

For me, to stop illegal immigration is to enforce any laws that will prevent US companies from hiring these folks. Or enhance existing illegal immigrant hiring laws if they are not substantial enough. Either way, if there are no jobs for them, most will not come.

That too. Though many of the overstays are hired legally and then never go home. However, Sarbanes-Oxley was great on corporate fraud; hold the board of directors, chief officers, and business owners personally, criminally responsible and things might get a lot better in a hurry.

There needs to be a multi-faceted strategy, and there needs to be buy-in from both political parties instead of using immigration as a political football. Good luck with that happening though.

 

[Riveting]

Chump had republican control of the Senate and Congress and still was not able to convince his repubs to allocate money for this beautiful wall. In 2018, the repubs lost control of the House. It took Pelosi and the dem controlled house to allocate a small fraction of money for the small portion of the beautiful wall that was built plus repairing parts of the existing wall.

You and katstench/JB23/HoFanJM cannot get beyond your lib groupthink mindset that immigration is a repub-dem issue, when obviously it is not.

It is an establishment-working class issue. Repub and dem establishment hacks love illegal immigration for cheap labor for their lobbyist-owners and for themselves.

Ponder amongst yourselves while choosing Joy.

 

[Katscratch]

You and katstench/JB23/HoFanJM cannot get beyond your lib groupthink mindset that immigration is a repub-dem issue, when obviously it is not.

It is an establishment-working class issue. Repub and dem establishment hacks love illegal immigration for cheap labor for their lobbyist-owners and for themselves.

Ponder amongst yourselves while choosing Joy.

^^The bolded is absolutely well-stated^^

(not sure why you cannot ever make a cogent point without adding a childish insult, but it's your funeral)

 

[BNIBoiler]

It is an establishment-working class issue. Repub and dem establishment hacks love illegal immigration for cheap labor for their lobbyist-owners and for themselves.

That's the point I'm making. Nobody wants to fix it. As far as the dems, the border is low priority and that is established. I blame mostly the repubs because of all of the yappin and so called concern about the border for years now.

 

[Riveting]

That's the point I'm making. Nobody wants to fix it. As far as the dems, the border is low priority and that is established. I blame mostly the repubs because of all of the yappin and so called concern about the border for years now.

It is obviously high priority for the dems, which is why Crow ended the Remain-in-Mexico policy as soon as he got into office. Any possible ideas why the dems wanted to do that, Uncle?

 

[bonefish1]

I have worked in corporate America. And well stated...Yes, a CEO's job is to "deliver share holder value and reward faith and investment in the company." And agreed, it's not enough to be a nice guy and make everyone like him. Though interestingly enough, the vast majority of our best-regarded Presidents were "nice" guys and really quality people; look it up - Washington, Lincoln, Truman, Eisenhower, Madison, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, Reagan, Obama. A few of them also womanizers, but invariably "nice."

But as you said; it's about results.

And yes; I can argue about the results; in fact, a large part of America, and even more nations worldwide were appalled by the results. Because faith in American Government and America's place as, per Reagan, the "shining light on a hill" was extraordinarily damaged by an American President that, for starters:

• cozied up to dictators, "They seem to like me, I'm not sure why!"
• ignored the rule of law (unless it was personally beneficial to him),
• dealt in and constantly promoted conspiracy theories (deep state anyone? Fake media?/They're coming for your country)
• made insults and division a regular and featured way of communicating (it's ridiculous that one bad quote from Michelle Obama gets pages here, but Trump says worse on almost a daily basis).
• Spent years investing in the concept that so much of America is rigged, but only when it was convenient for Trump to assert it, culminating in the whole freaking planet watching our Capitol overrun by idiots with Trump flags, Confederate flags, flags with AR-15s on them, and shouting "hang Mike Pence" and "Where's Nancy?" The whole world saw Trump's Presidency culminate with that display of violence, disrespect, and anti-democratic lawlessness while Trump cheered them on. And continues to do so.

So the results as a leader? As a Chief Executive? They truly stunk. They severely damaged faith in America. They were a disaster. And he doesn't change; he doubles down on his worst leadership qualities and conspiracy theories on a daily basis.

You're TDS is getting worse. Have you been meeting Bob at McDonalds for morning coffee?

Again, everything you mention are in reference to Trumps character and personality, not his policies or results.

You're so focused on the mean tweets that you fail to see how Trumps 4 years compared to Bidens (who by all accounts, although senile and suffering from dementia is a 'nice guy', ineffective as POTUS, but 'nice guy' non the less) and what being a leader means.

I often compare Trump to Bob Knight. You may not have liked Knight, his methods, etc, but you can't argue with his results.

 

[bonefish1]

Living in NW Indiana, the steel capital of North America, I initially liked the tariffs on China steel idea. Our democratic congressman plus congressman from other US steel making areas like Pittsburgh and Birmingham, AL fought for this. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a horrible policy. It definitely turned out to be a trade war. I think US farmers and subsequently US consumers ended up in the middle of this trade war with soybeans and corn.

Chump had republican control of the Senate and Congress and still was not able to convince his repubs to allocate money for this beautiful wall. In 2018, the repubs lost control of the House. It took Pelosi and the dem controlled house to allocate a small fraction of money for the small portion of the beautiful wall that was built plus repairing parts of the existing wall.

So, should Trump have ignored China's dumping of steel in the US? China's dumping had a much more significant impact on steel pricing, supply and industry jobs than getting into a trade war did. Trump was trying to protect an American industry and American workers. How can you fault him for that?

 

[Katscratch]

You're TDS is getting worse. Have you been meeting Bob at McDonalds for morning coffee?

Again, everything you mention are in reference to Trumps character and personality, not his policies or results.

You're so focused on the mean tweets that you fail to see how Trumps 4 years compared to Bidens (who by all accounts, although senile and suffering from dementia is a 'nice guy', ineffective as POTUS, but 'nice guy' non the less) and what being a leader means.

I often compare Trump to Bob Knight. You may not have liked Knight, his methods, etc, but you can't argue with his results.

You asked, so I itemized all kinds of things that made Trump a complete failure as a leader. And yet you continue to say that I'm offended by mean tweets; I assume because that fits your counterargument, not because I said that.

So I guess we're done, because when you make a point I address it and at times agree with you, but you ignore the totality of what I post and come back to what you wish I'd said.

 

[Katscratch]

And to illustrate the point that Trump as a leader constantly and vehemently sows mistrust in America, here's today's example:

Trump said. "I mean, in California, you have people getting seven ballots."
"I guarantee, if Jesus Christ came down and was the vote counter, I would win California, OK?" he added.

 

[Riveting]

And to illustrate the point that Trump as a leader constantly and vehemently sows mistrust in America, here's today's example:

Trump said. "I mean, in California, you have people getting seven ballots."
"I guarantee, if Jesus Christ came down and was the vote counter, I would win California, OK?" he added.

How does this 'sow' mistrust in America?

Do you suddenly feel that distrust has been sown on you and your cows?

 

[Katscratch]

How does this 'sow' mistrust in America?

Do you suddenly feel that distrust has been sown on you and your cows?

The farting cows belong to TwinDegrees.

Trump claiming that if a the lord counted the votes (Jesus would be accurate) he would win California, but that instead he will lose there in a landslide is another "the vote will be rigged" crock of anti-rule of law asshole-ery.

 

[bonefish1]

You asked, so I itemized all kinds of things that made Trump a complete failure as a leader. And yet you continue to say that I'm offended by mean tweets; I assume because that fits your counterargument, not because I said that.

So I guess we're done, because when you make a point I address it and at times agree with you, but you ignore the totality of what I post and come back to what you wish I'd said.

You have trouble differentiating between fact and opinion.
Most everything you list are opinions. When you say things like "Cozied up to dictators" or "Dealt in conspiracy theories", those are your opinions or what you've been led to believe by the MSM.

Your claim that Trump 'cozies' up to someone like Putin (which is who I assume you're referring to) and therefore is an example of poor leadership, is based purely on your opinion. You have no factual basis other than what the MSM tells you.

If Trump were still POTUS, Putin would not have invade Ukraine. Is that fact or opinion?

 

[bonefish1]

And to illustrate the point that Trump as a leader constantly and vehemently sows mistrust in America, here's today's example:

Trump said. "I mean, in California, you have people getting seven ballots."
"I guarantee, if Jesus Christ came down and was the vote counter, I would win California, OK?" he added.

You don't understand sarcasm?
What about the fact that there are instances of people getting 7 ballots?
Again, separate policy and results from personality and random comments.

 

[bonefish1]

The farting cows belong to TwinDegrees.

Trump claiming that if a the lord counted the votes (Jesus would be accurate) he would win California, but that instead he will lose there in a landslide is another "the vote will be rigged" crock of anti-rule of law asshole-ery.

Trump knows he won't win CA. He's having fun with you because he knows lefty libs are the party of lack of impulse control and they get themselves all tied up in knots every time he said something outlandish.

 

[Riveting]

The farting cows belong to TwinDegrees.

Trump claiming that if a the lord counted the votes (Jesus would be accurate) he would win California, but that instead he will lose there in a landslide is another "the vote will be rigged" crock of anti-rule of law asshole-ery.

2020 was rigged by the deep state, as Zuck confirmed just yesterday. The deep state will try something again because they want the current vice puppet to be prez.

 

[Katscratch]

Trump knows he won't win CA. He's having fun with you because he knows lefty libs are the party of lack of impulse control and they get themselves all tied up in knots every time he said something outlandish.

2020 was rigged by the deep state, as Zuck confirmed just yesterday. The deep state will try something again because they want the current vice puppet to be prez.

Hey bonefish - you may want to explain to Riveting that Trump is just joking about this rigged stuff.

 

[Riveting]

Hey bonefish - you may want to explain to Riveting that Trump is just joking about this rigged stuff.

Hey JM, I read the Zuck letter. He wasn't joking.

 

[Katscratch]

Hey JM, I read the Zuck letter. He wasn't joking.

Tell it to bonefish. And according to Trump, who apparently is not joking, also tell it to Jesus.

 

[tjreese]

Tell it to bonefish. And according to Trump, who apparently is not joking, also tell it to Jesus.

Like fish, but with ballots like the dems...Jesus could also multiply votes

 

[Katscratch]

The Republican presidential candidate just posted on social media a picture of the Democratic candidate and Hillary Clinton with the caption “Funny how blow jobs impacted both their careers differently”

What a scumbag

 

[Riveting]

The Republican presidential candidate just posted on social media a picture of the Democratic candidate and Hillary Clinton with the caption “Funny how blow jobs impacted both their careers differently”

What a scumbag

More of his efforts to lose the election when it should be an easy win.

 

[Katscratch]

More of his efforts to lose the election when it should be an easy win.

Because the American Presidency is about far more than a battle of policy papers. No one should want their President to be an awful scumbag.

 

[Riveting]

Because the American Presidency is about far more than a battle of policy papers. No one should want their President to be an awful scumbag.

Carter was a decent man and a horrible president.

Trump is a horrible person but had good policies for the nation.

Biden is a horrible person and has horrible policies.

Among those three, do you think Carter was the best president because he was a decent person?

 

[Riveting]

Tricking us again by switching to your Orwellian 'Telling the Truth'? How can we ever keep up with your diabolical mind?

 

[JBoiler23]

Ok, then give me an example of how climate change has impacted someone you know?
Do you care about others only in selective situations? Do you care about people in China or Indian, the 2 largest producers of CO2 emissions on the globe?

I care about humanity, so asking about individuals is not useful.

I believe climate change is real. There's evidence of that. There's also evidence that there was climate change 10,000 years ago, a million years ago. Man had nothing to do with it then and has little to do with it now.

This is a claim that requires evidence. There's plenty of evidence out there that suggests we are influencing things. Is there evidence that currently-observed warming is, in fact, natural? You just thinking "we can't do that" doesn't make it true.

 

[JBoiler23]

I care about this issues in the sense that I can point to something someone is doing wrong and tell them to correct it. I'm not going to correct it for them. That's were things like personal responsibility come it. You know, the old saying about leading a horse to water.....

So how many businesses owners that employ illegal immigrants have you approached to let them know they are doing something wrong that they need to correct? How many single mothers have you approached to tell that they shouldn't have gotten pregnant? How many horses have you, personally, led to water?

I suspect, in reality, you recognize things that you perceive to be problems, complain about them on message boards, and then vote for people you think will work to solve those problems rather than actually taking any action yourself (despite the fact that you, apparently, want to hold me to that standard). But, as I'll discuss below, your or my individual actions are not really relevant to the conversation we were having.

What argument are you referring to? Is it the one about doing something personally to solve a societal problem?

It seems that you're attempting to argue that, if someone doesn't do something personally to solve a societal problem, that means that societal problem doesn't actually exist. We were discussing the existence of man-made climate change (which is a matter of fact, not of policy or of action), and you responded with "what have you done to personally help?" There's nothing about any individual's response or lack thereof that affects the existence or non-existence of the problem. So, either it was a bad argument or a deflection on your part to even ask the question about what actions I personally have taken.

Expecting others to solve a problem while you stand around and watch.

Which is exactly what you said you'd do in your first couple sentences. So...

 

[JBoiler23]

If Trump were still POTUS, Putin would not have invade Ukraine. Is that fact or opinion?

Not gonna jump into the whole Trump discussion, but, this is clearly an opinion.

 

[Katscratch]

Carter was a decent man and a horrible president.

Trump is a horrible person but had good policies for the nation.

Biden is a horrible person and has horrible policies.

Among those three, do you think Carter was the best president because he was a decent person?

Carter —- a great man and a lousy President. Worlds better than Trump though.

 

[SKYDOG]

Carter —- a great man and a lousy President. Worlds better than Trump though.

If you were able to remove personality, would that still be your answer?

 

[Katscratch]

If you were able to remove personality, would that still be your answer?

By removing personality do I also remove the damage to the country because of his personality? For instance, remove personality and J6 doesn’t happen. If he’s a good guy and stable and believes in the rule of law so much bad stuff doesn’t happen.

So a Trump policy paper without Trump? Sure, that’d be fine. But Trump is not a legislator. The President leads the Executive Branch. Our great great great grandkids will read about the Trump Presidency as one of, if not the worst ever.

 

[TheGunner]

Biden and Harris along with Pelosi and Schumer all wanted a free and open boarder. To them, locking up the migrant vote was/is far more important than a few murders by those who crossed illegally.

Plus govt payments to liberal backed hotels and hospitality businesses. Cha-Ching

 

[SKYDOG]

By removing personality do I also remove the damage to the country because of his personality? For instance, remove personality and J6 doesn’t happen. If he’s a good guy and stable and believes in the rule of law so much bad stuff doesn’t happen.

So a Trump policy paper without Trump? Sure, that’d be fine.

So Trump has caused more damage to the country than the Biden administration? That is real hard to understand if one has an open mind.

 

[Katscratch]

So Trump has caused more damage to the country than the Biden administration? That is real hard to understand if one has an open mind.

Hard to understand for who?

Not for a majority of the American people, all living Republican prior Presidents, Vice Presidents, and President and VP candidates, world leaders, historians, and so so many that worked in the first Trump administration.

The four years of Biden will likely largely be remembered as the administration that started the country on the road to recovery from Trump.

 

[SKYDOG]

Hard to understand for who?

Not for a majority of the American people, all living Republican prior Presidents, Vice Presidents, and President and VP candidates, world leaders, historians, and so so many that worked in the first Trump administration.

The four years of Biden will likely largely be remembered as the administration that started the country on the road to recovery from Trump.

So you believe the country is better today than it was four years ago? Wow

 

[Joetboiler]

So when Trump killed the Repub sponsored border bill, was he also abetting sex trafficking?

So what about when Biden and Schumer killed HR2 in May of 2023 several months before? HR 2 was a much stronger bill. And more encompassing. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2

 

[Joetboiler]

We had a comprehensive immigration deal on the floor put together by Senator Lankford of Oklahoma(conservative republican) that would have fixed most of the current problems with immigration. One that Biden said he would sign. It was a conservatives "wet dream" of a policy and what happened? Trump killed it. So it is easy to not vote for someone that 1. is a draft dodger 2. kills legislation that will help solve the immigration problem 3. puts tariffs in place that are a giant tax on the entire US population and spurs inflation 4. supports a murderous thug named Putin that has been involved in killing our troops all around the world and wants to reinstate the Soviet Union. 5. doesn't support democracy and the peaceful transition of power to the point of offering up his own VP for serious harm. BTW, illegal immigration crossings are now at a 4 year low since Biden's executive order. Seems to me it is YOU that can't see the forest for the trees.

The minute somebody brings up Trump killing the Senate border bill without referencing HR2 which was killed by Biden/Harris in May 2023 months before I know they are unserious and can only regurgitate talking points. The Senate Bill stripped executive power to close the border that the president currently has. Trump wants to close the border immediately. The S bill greatly complicates with the rolling average. Next time be smarter. Ask your sources why they never reference HR2? You can read it. The person you are voting for killed it. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2