This year'steam vs. last year

[vilehoopster]

I really am amazed at how short our memory on this board is sometimes. Have we really forgotten how good of a player R. Davis, Big Ten Defensive Player of the year was, what a great leader he was? You guys are implying he was a liability last year. Of course a month ago we were discussing V. Edwards like he was liability.

I agree with TCrthree here 100%. Let's hold off until a while in the Big Ten season before we start talking about how great this team is. Yes, the potential is there, but REMEMBER last year??!

We're we rated as high as 4th in the country last year before Butler and the the early Big Ten showed some holes on last year's team. This year's team has some holes too, maybe not as big and easier to plug, but I think the Big Ten season will tell us a lot more.

I also agree with the guy who said the top of the Big Ten looks weak this year, but on the other hand, the bottom of the Big Ten looks a lot, a lot tougher this year. I see five or six loses again this year guys.

Plus, as I've stated before, I love his potential, but I am not quite willing to hand over the team in crunch time to Carsen yet. We'll see; let's talk about this team's greatness in after a month or so in the Big Ten.

 

[Dandelion1972]

The jury is still out on how we handle the press! We should be better, but . . . .

 

[BoilerDeac]

going into this year, I thought last year's team would be slightly better. I thought missing the game altering ability of Hammons would prove far more crucial than many realized.

Yesterday I watched a couple games from last year, and there is no doubt in my mind that we're better this year.

- swanigan is vastly improved.
- Davis and hill were a liability on the offensive side of the ball. This year everybody is a threat to score.
- our three point shooting has been historically good
- carsen is a lot better than expected.

Does anybody think that last year's team is better?

This team is a better, more diverse offensive team.

As long as Painter embraces this team's offensive ability and goes small, this team can go a long way, in my opinion.

 

[BuilderBob6]

The jury is still out on how we handle the press! We should be better, but . . . .

Don't think it is. We are better without a doubt. There will be a few hiccups but this team is older and experienced, more athletic with Carsen, doesn't play scared. Besides, Painter read a book on how to break the press over the summer tic.

 

[PistolPt]

Lmao, who is saying anything how great the team is???? OP about comparing teams I thought???? Personally I believe at least through non-conference this team looks better than last year at this time. As far as RDavis think everybody respected what a great guy and leader he was. He had a great career. Still last year as senior have to say his play fell off . I don't think he was as good defensively as he was the prior year. Also 38% FG and 33% from 3 land? That isn't impressive on offensive side. Also from the guy who averaged most minutes played per game. Add J Hill offensive difficulties to that mix hard for me to buy in that last years team had more talent than this year.

I don't there is any doubt this year's squad is better balanced and more talented. Certainly not as systematic as last years team. I don't see 5 or 6 losses either, no way.
I am seeing 14-4 at worse and outside shot 15-3.

Big RD fan and JHill and love them both but will take this year's crop. We will see.

 

[tjreese]

The jury is still out on how we handle the press! We should be better, but . . . .

I will be surprised if the press is a problem this year. Carsen brings speed that wasn't there and soon Spike should be able to help. Course, if the press is not an issue this year, it must mean Matt finally understood something about the press...

 

[ghost_of_d.]

I really am amazed at how short our memory on this board is sometimes. Have we really forgotten how good of a player R. Davis, Big Ten Defensive Player of the year was, what a great leader he was? You guys are implying he was a liability last year. Of course a month ago we were discussing V. Edwards like he was liability.

Rapheal was nowhere near the same player after he hurt his knee early last season. He's one of my favorite players of the Painter era, but minus a few games, he was not a defensive stopper, nor was he the competent scorer/slasher/finisher he was as a junior.

 

[Inspector100]

Lmao, who is saying anything how great the team is???? OP about comparing teams I thought???? Personally I believe at least through non-conference this team looks better than last year at this time. As far as RDavis think everybody respected what a great guy and leader he was. He had a great career. Still last year as senior have to say his play fell off . I don't think he was as good defensively as he was the prior year. Also 38% FG and 33% from 3 land? That isn't impressive on offensive side. Also from the guy who averaged most minutes played per game. Add J Hill offensive difficulties to that mix hard for me to buy in that last years team had more talent than this year.

I don't there is any doubt this year's squad is better balanced and more talented. Certainly not as systematic as last years team. I don't see 5 or 6 losses either, no way.
I am seeing 14-4 at worse and outside shot 15-3.

Big RD fan and JHill and love them both but will take this year's crop. We will see.

Checking records of B10 champs for a long time and you will see that 3 loses is common. So, if the Boilers go 15-3 in conference, they will win the regular season B10 title. The champ might have more than 3 loses this season since there is a tight bunch at the top of the conference.

 

[pig1960]

This team is much better..,and here is my top ten reasons why...
10. Offense flows better
9. 5 guys on the court with green light who can all score
8. Basil and Spike
7. A guard with a fearless attitude in Carsen Edwards that can break down the press and his man and finish
6. A confident PJ
5. Assists are thru the roof
4. Better free throw %
3. The 3 ball is significantly better, one of the best in the country.
2. The press is a non issue and that alone cost us multiple games last year
1. Swanigan is an unbelievably hard worker, leader by example, incredible rebounder, much better decision maker and legit Big and National POY candidate. Damn! He's had 3 twenty twenties and is averaging a solid double double.

Seriously don't thinks it's close...this team is light years better. Check the Kpom numbers. I know it's early but there is enough games played to gain confidence in those stats.

 

[pig1960]

Lmao, who is saying anything how great the team is???? OP about comparing teams I thought???? Personally I believe at least through non-conference this team looks better than last year at this time. As far as RDavis think everybody respected what a great guy and leader he was. He had a great career. Still last year as senior have to say his play fell off . I don't think he was as good defensively as he was the prior year. Also 38% FG and 33% from 3 land? That isn't impressive on offensive side. Also from the guy who averaged most minutes played per game. Add J Hill offensive difficulties to that mix hard for me to buy in that last years team had more talent than this year.

I don't there is any doubt this year's squad is better balanced and more talented. Certainly not as systematic as last years team. I don't see 5 or 6 losses either, no way.
I am seeing 14-4 at worse and outside shot 15-3.

Big RD fan and JHill and love them both but will take this year's crop. We will see.

Yeah..not sure where great came into the discussion. Davis has somehow morphed into something he never was which is a difference maker. I like and respect Davis but he isn't part of a starting 5 if you are interested in offensive production. The ball got stuck in his hands every damn time he touched it. You watch the offensive flow this year and it is laughably better and so much more enjoyable to watch. Probably one of the worst things to happen to Purdue is being labeled as a defensive team...that will never never never win you a title in Bball.

 

[tjreese]

Rapheal was nowhere near the same player after he hurt his knee early last season. He's one of my favorite players of the Painter era, but minus a few games, he was not a defensive stopper, nor was he the competent scorer/slasher/finisher he was as a junior.

I agree that he was not the same

 

[TC4THREE]

Yeah..not sure where great came into the discussion. Davis has somehow morphed into something he never was which is a difference maker. I like and respect Davis but he isn't part of a starting 5 if you are interested in offensive production. The ball got stuck in his hands every damn time he touched it. You watch the offensive flow this year and it is laughably better and so much more enjoyable to watch. Probably one of the worst things to happen to Purdue is being labeled as a defensive team...that will never never never win you a title in Bball.

Yes. DPOTY and irrelevant to some here......

 

[PistolPt]

Yes. DPOTY and irrelevant to some here......

Irrelevant when comes to comparing this year's team to last years team which is what thread was about.

DPOTY was year before as well.

Let's continue to improve offensively, defensively, and coaching and B10 championship a reality.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Yes. DPOTY and irrelevant to some here......

oh come on... even Ray was smart enough to know he got that because he played with AJ. I loved Ray. A true boiler through and through. But he had his limitations and he seemed injured a lot of his senior year.

 

[tjreese]

Checking records of B10 champs for a long time and you will see that 3 loses is common. So, if the Boilers go 15-3 in conference, they will win the regular season B10 title. The champ might have more than 3 loses this season since there is a tight bunch at the top of the conference.

from memory...16/2 is outright Big and 15/3 many times is shared...but being old maybe my memory is not as good...AND that was round robin. The unbalanced schedule changes things. STill, Purdue controls how Purdue does...

 

[boilerzz]

Yes. DPOTY and irrelevant to some here......

He was DPOTY as a junior. He was nowhere near the defender as a senior that he was as a junior. I think his knee was more of an issue than he let on.

Offensively he had a few great games (MSU most notably) but disappeared a lot. Against KenPom top 100 teams, he shot 31.6% from three and 28.8% from two. That's just not acceptable for a shooting guard. In the 10 games following that MSU win, he shot 15-55 from the field (27.3%) and 6-24 from three (25%).

Love Rapheal. One of my favorite players because he was pivotal in flipping the attitude around the Purdue basketball program. But he was nowhere near what Purdue needed him to be down the stretch last year.

 

[PistolPt]

I think CMP learned from last season. RD was probably not as healthy and subsequently felt compelled playing when no reason lead team in minutes averaged . Cline could have had more experience IMO. Tough call because he helped program and turn around . If similar situation this year think CMP handles differently

 

[BoiledSteel]

He was DPOTY as a junior. He was nowhere near the defender as a senior that he was as a junior. I think his knee was more of an issue than he let on.

Offensively he had a few great games (MSU most notably) but disappeared a lot. Against KenPom top 100 teams, he shot 31.6% from three and 28.8% from two. That's just not acceptable for a shooting guard. In the 10 games following that MSU win, he shot 15-55 from the field (27.3%) and 6-24 from three (25%).

Love Rapheal. One of my favorite players because he was pivotal in flipping the attitude around the Purdue basketball program. But he was nowhere near what Purdue needed him to be down the stretch last year.

Completely agree and as you pointed out, I think his knee had a lot to do with his decline.

 

[TC4THREE]

So if you are not DPOTY that year then you are irrelevant? Guess Hammons wasn't any good defensively as a junior.

 

[boilerzz]

I love it when people don't even read a post and just respond with a strawman.

 

[TC4THREE]

I love it when people don't even read a post and just respond with a strawman.

I love it when people make nonsensical arguments trying to tear down good players.

 

[Mgkcbb]

Nobody is trying to tear down Rapheal. Just being honest that was not the same player after the knee injury and was not able to be a consistent offensive threat or be as good a defender as he was as a junior.

Despite alot of people acknowledging this, almost everyone universally agrees that he was an awesome olayer for Purdue as a program and he seems to be one of everyones favorite players - again despite his injury limitations last year.

Ray Day will go down as one of the all time favorite Purdue players for a ton of Purdue fans(id imagine at least) and will be remembered very favorably. Just sucks his knee limited him some his senior year.

 

[PistolPt]

So if you are not DPOTY that year then you are irrelevant? Guess Hammons wasn't any good defensively as a junior.

TC let it go my man. Sit out a couple of plays Champ(Anchorman). You liked last year's team and trying to use awards for our guys from two years ago Your hurting from last March I know, let it go and embrace the change and culture and nod your head in agreement with 98.9% who responded on this tread. It's all good brother.

Seriously Boiler fans, I do like the vibe hearing from some pundits nationwide and sensing this "current" year team is somebody who can do some big things. Still under the radar(as they should be still) but seem to be in conversations and print with the "experts" a little more frequently. We shall see, but starting with a Hawkeye azz kicking tonight is a good start.

 

[TC4THREE]

TC let it go my man. Sit out a couple of plays Champ(Anchorman). You liked last year's team and trying to use awards for our guys from two years ago Your hurting from last March I know, let it go and embrace the change and culture and nod your head in agreement with 98.9% who responded on this tread. It's all good brother.

Seriously Boiler fans, I do like the vibe hearing from some pundits nationwide and sensing this "current" year team is somebody who can do some big things. Still under the radar(as they should be still) but seem to be in conversations and print with the "experts" a little more frequently. We shall see, but starting with a Hawkeye azz kicking tonight is a good start.

Don't attempt to patronize me when you are getting overly excited over 'big' wins over the likes of Norfolk State.

I hope this year's team is better. I do. But I live in the real world and this team still has questions to answer and much to prove. I'm not going to make too much out of blowing out Norfolk State or try to marginalize the contributions of past players to try to make myself believe what I want to believe (that this year's team is the bestest EVER!!). If they are that good they will prove it over the conference season and will lose very few games in a Big Ten that lacks alpha teams at the top.

Truth be told I think the teams are very close to one another and that would make complete sense since there are so many common players. Thing that tilts it towards last year for me is that I think Hammons was the best player off either team and he's obviously not here this season and that offsets other gains that were made.

 

[TC4THREE]

Nobody is trying to tear down Rapheal. Just being honest that was not the same player after the knee injury and was not able to be a consistent offensive threat or be as good a defender as he was as a junior.

He wasn't AS good as he was before that injury but he wasn't the complete liability some are making him out to be in this thread either. He was still our best perimeter defender (and one of the better defenders in the conference still) and able enough to be our best player in the biggest win of last season.

 

[BuilderBob6]

He wasn't AS good as he was before that injury but he wasn't the complete liability some are making him out to be in this thread either. He was still our best perimeter defender (and one of the better defenders in the conference still) and able enough to be our best player in the biggest win of last season.

It appeared to me the injury sapped him of his confidence offensively. He was not the same player that used to drive and finish/get fouled against anybody. His handles, while never great , seemed to be worse. He was hesitant when passing the ball. Neither of those issues helped us with the press, not that we didn't have other players that hurt us there too. He could get hot from three but it was the exception. Just seemed out of sync offensively. He was a warrior and a great boiler and should be remembered as such. It's a shame he and that team had to end it that way.

 

[PistolPt]

Don't attempt to patronize me when you are getting overly excited over 'big' wins over the likes of Norfolk State.

I hope this year's team is better. I do. But I live in the real world and this team still has questions to answer and much to prove. I'm not going to make too much out of blowing out Norfolk State or try to marginalize the contributions of past players to try to make myself believe what I want to believe (that this year's team is the bestest EVER!!). If they are that good they will prove it over the conference season and will lose very few games in a Big Ten that lacks alpha teams at the top.

Truth be told I think the teams are very close to one another and that would make complete sense since there are so many common players. Thing that tilts it towards last year for me is that I think Hammons was the best player off either team and he's obviously not here this season and that offsets other gains that were made.

Yeah reveling in that Norfolk St must be so transparent. Very close to one another team wise, really? Must be those parallel offensive schemes from last year to current year.
Maybe it's just I(or the 98%) others on the thread seeing things differently.

 

[pig1960]

Don't attempt to patronize me when you are getting overly excited over 'big' wins over the likes of Norfolk State.

I hope this year's team is better. I do. But I live in the real world and this team still has questions to answer and much to prove. I'm not going to make too much out of blowing out Norfolk State or try to marginalize the contributions of past players to try to make myself believe what I want to believe (that this year's team is the bestest EVER!!). If they are that good they will prove it over the conference season and will lose very few games in a Big Ten that lacks alpha teams at the top.

Truth be told I think the teams are very close to one another and that would make complete sense since there are so many common players. Thing that tilts it towards last year for me is that I think Hammons was the best player off either team and he's obviously not here this season and that offsets other gains that were made.

I don't recall anybody saying this team is the "bestest ever", which seems to be patronizing on your part ironically. Several, including myself, seem to believe this product is better than last years product. I've listed the reasons why in fact. Nobody seems to be marginalizing Davis either - just acknowledging that he wasn't the "bestest player" to don the Gold and Black. Doesn't remotely mean that I didn't like or respect his efforts,talent or his leadership. Regarding Hammons - he may have been the best player, although you can make a case for Biggie this year - doesn't mean the team was better. Hammons was a good player when he didn't even try - and not trying can be a problem for a team. AJ has candidly admitted this in his post Purdue interviews. And while I haven't seen anyone make too much of Norfolk State it seems you may be making too much out of last years team which in the final analysis didn't really accomplish much...no Big Ten Title, No Crossroads win, no Big Ten tourney title, no Big Dance wins. Harsh as it may seem they didn't get it done....the reasons they didn't get it done seem to have been improved on or eliminated.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I really am amazed at how short our memory on this board is sometimes. Have we really forgotten how good of a player R. Davis, Big Ten Defensive Player of the year was, what a great leader he was? You guys are implying he was a liability last year. Of course a month ago we were discussing V. Edwards like he was liability.

I agree with TCrthree here 100%. Let's hold off until a while in the Big Ten season before we start talking about how great this team is. Yes, the potential is there, but REMEMBER last year??!

We're we rated as high as 4th in the country last year before Butler and the the early Big Ten showed some holes on last year's team. This year's team has some holes too, maybe not as big and easier to plug, but I think the Big Ten season will tell us a lot more.

I also agree with the guy who said the top of the Big Ten looks weak this year, but on the other hand, the bottom of the Big Ten looks a lot, a lot tougher this year. I see five or six loses again this year guys.

Plus, as I've stated before, I love his potential, but I am not quite willing to hand over the team in crunch time to Carsen yet. We'll see; let's talk about this team's greatness in after a month or so in the Big Ten.

What I find interesting in this entire discussion is that one of the reasons this team is better offensively is that some of the players recruited for their offense are a year older and a year more experienced. I'm glad we aren't seeing any more comments that "what we are getting from Mathias and PJ are what we are always going to get from them." Some people are now seeing that a player can be expected to improve every year, and sometimes they improve significantly.

 

[BoilerGrad02]

I think R. Davis played significantly better his junior year.

In his defense I've heard from a number of people he played with a bum ankle for almost the entire year that never healed but I think it really affected his game on both ends.

I do think it's too early to tell one way or the other but the ND game (rallying back and proving you can overcome adversity) is the kind of confidence builder that last year's team never had, they seemed to be on the other side of those type of games (Iowa, @Maryland, ArkLR).

 

[boilerzz]

I love it when people make nonsensical arguments trying to tear down good players.

Please break down my post and tell me what was nonsensical.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Let's please kill this thread. There is no doubt we have a stronger team this. And it's not close. BTFU.

 

[mathboy]

It appeared to me the injury sapped him of his confidence offensively. He was not the same player that used to drive and finish/get fouled against anybody. His handles, while never great , seemed to be worse. He was hesitant when passing the ball. Neither of those issues helped us with the press, not that we didn't have other players that hurt us there too. He could get hot from three but it was the exception. Just seemed out of sync offensively. He was a warrior and a great boiler and should be remembered as such. It's a shame he and that team had to end it that way.

IIRC the rules changed that year, with more "protection" for the offensive player That also hurt RD defensive ability. Everyone was adjusting to the new rules.

 

[njm8845]

He wasn't AS good as he was before that injury but he wasn't the complete liability some are making him out to be in this thread either. He was still our best perimeter defender (and one of the better defenders in the conference still) and able enough to be our best player in the biggest win of last season.

This wasn't meant to be a thread about davis, but since we're on the topic, he shot 8-22 in the msu game last year. Hammons had 19, 13, and 8 blocks ehile shooting 9 fewer times. I think he was clearly the best player in that game.

Just watch a few games from last year - I have. The difference in ball movement is striking. This year everyone is always a threat. Not the case last year.

 

[TC4THREE]

I don't recall anybody saying this team is the "bestest ever", which seems to be patronizing on your part ironically. Several, including myself, seem to believe this product is better than last years product. I've listed the reasons why in fact. Nobody seems to be marginalizing Davis either - just acknowledging that he wasn't the "bestest player" to don the Gold and Black. Doesn't remotely mean that I didn't like or respect his efforts,talent or his leadership. Regarding Hammons - he may have been the best player, although you can make a case for Biggie this year - doesn't mean the team was better. Hammons was a good player when he didn't even try - and not trying can be a problem for a team. AJ has candidly admitted this in his post Purdue interviews. And while I haven't seen anyone make too much of Norfolk State it seems you may be making too much out of last years team which in the final analysis didn't really accomplish much...no Big Ten Title, No Crossroads win, no Big Ten tourney title, no Big Dance wins. Harsh as it may seem they didn't get it done....the reasons they didn't get it done seem to have been improved on or eliminated.

And this year's team has accomplished very little to this point as well. You can substitute a Challenge win for the Crossroads win and it looks pretty event to me thus far. We'll see how it goes. They SHOULD do better in conference regardless because there are few, if any, alpha type teams in the conference this year and I think IU losing at home to Nebraska is the first evidence of many we'll see of that throughout the season. If this team is noticeably better as some here are saying, they should probably win conference and I really hope they do.

As for the reasons they didn't get it done last year seemingly have been improved or eliminated, I'll wait until I see it against quality opposition before judging much. As I said earlier, I'm not going to extrapolate what we did against Norfolk State against the rest of the schedule.

 

[TC4THREE]

This wasn't meant to be a thread about davis, but since we're on the topic, he shot 8-22 in the msu game last year. Hammons had 19, 13, and 8 blocks ehile shooting 9 fewer times. I think he was clearly the best player in that game.

Just watch a few games from last year - I have. The difference in ball movement is striking. This year everyone is always a threat. Not the case last year.

Fair point regarding Hammons in that game. Better overall game now that you've pointed it out. Might also point that he's also no longer on the team though which further illustrates what we lost from last year.

 

[TC4THREE]

Let's please kill this thread. There is no doubt we have a stronger team this. And it's not close. BTFU.

Yes. The 20 point home win over Iowa proves it! Iowa is even better than Norfolk State!!

 

[PistolPt]

Fair point regarding Hammons in that game. Better overall game now that you've pointed it out. Might also point that he's also no longer on the team though which further illustrates what we lost from last year.

Forget it Stratton, he's on a roll. Whose with him??


Yeah agree lets move on. Great win and let's build on it Sunday.

 

[pig1960]

And this year's team has accomplished very little to this point as well. You can substitute a Challenge win for the Crossroads win and it looks pretty event to me thus far. We'll see how it goes. They SHOULD do better in conference regardless because there are few, if any, alpha type teams in the conference this year and I think IU losing at home to Nebraska is the first evidence of many we'll see of that throughout the season. If this team is noticeably better as some here are saying, they should probably win conference and I really hope they do.

As for the reasons they didn't get it done last year seemingly have been improved or eliminated, I'll wait until I see it against quality opposition before judging much. As I said earlier, I'm not going to extrapolate what we did against Norfolk State against the rest of the schedule.

Just curious what this year's team could do to prove they are better than last year? Since Norfolk doesn't count and ND equals Pitt and the Big is worse in your opinion when and what can this team do to prove its better. Win the Big? Nah...Big is down. Win a first round game...nah they should win that game.

Here's how I made my determination...I watched every game last year and all so far this year. Purdue had clear weaknesses last year...guard play, scoring slumps, turnovers by the front court and especially struggles against the press and zone etc This years team has clear weaknesses so far as well... but after 14 games this team has improved, sometimes dramatically, in those areas. Sure I t could all fall apart but I seriously doubt it because that's something else I see in this team - a mature consistency that last years team did not have.

 

[PistolPt]

Just curious what this year's team could do to prove they are better than last year? Since Norfolk doesn't count and ND equals Pitt and the Big is worse in your opinion when and what can this team do to prove its better. Win the Big? Nah...Big is down. Win a first round game...nah they should win that game.

Here's how I made my determination...I watched every game last year and all so far this year. Purdue had clear weaknesses last year...guard play, scoring slumps, turnovers by the front court and especially struggles against the press and zone etc This years team has clear weaknesses so far as well... but after 14 games this team has improved, sometimes dramatically, in those areas. Sure I t could all fall apart but I seriously doubt it because that's something else I see in this team - a mature consistency that last years team did not have.

Just let it go bro, your right as well as the 98% who responded as well. Sure happy Purdue won but probably was hoping for a 3 point win to keep argument going and with 25K messages will get last word(albeit "irrelevant" one) so let him have it.

Boiler up Sunday and continue to develop!