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The problem as I see it

Apr 18, 2005
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I know it's not the 70's, but I had a bad feeling when Hazell was hired because it reminded me of past failures by other B10 programs during that general era. It's the tendency of lesser football programs hiring assistants from Michigan and Ohio State. The two that come to mind are Gary Moeller (sp?) at Illinois and Glen Mason. Moeller was an assistant at Michigan under Bo and Mason came from OSU (later on, but the lesson still applies). Back then, Michigan and OSU's second squads could beat all of the other schools first teams because there we no scholarship limits. They blew all of the other teams off the line because they had by-far the best talent. So Moeller and Mason knew how to coach that style....and it failed miserably at Illinois and Minny. The systems they knew only work if you have vastly superior talent. The basketball analogy is all of the Duke assistants that get hired....none of which have ever even made a final four (hint, they don't get the players that Duke gets because of the brand name).

Hazell is a Tressel protege. Tressel was a good coach, but he also was the master of winning games 17-13 against teams that OSU should have beaten by 30 pts. Tressel won big because he had the best players....period. Not because he had some magical scheme or approach to life. There is no way Tressel would have had the level of success he had if he had coached at a middling B10 program. So Hazell absorbs the "Tressel way" with his 3-ring binder of "rules to live by". Based on first-hand experience, of course Coach Hazell has every reason to believe the "rules to live by" work. But guess what? The Tressel rules and that 3-ring binder only work (translate that to winning games) if you have better players at almost every position.

Hazell strikes me as a tremendously earnest guy who really believes the 3-ring binder. But the 3-ring binder doesn't apply here. It's not the absolute truth. He seems stubborn to a fault....because dammit, "I'm doing everything by the 3-ring binder.....and the binder was always right at OSU?" He really believes that if you do it the "right way", it doesn't matter if you don't have by-far the best players they get by default at OSU. This is why he is the king of the cliche. In order to keep believing, he has to keep repeating it. It becomes propaganda, even if it's done innocently and not cynically like many public figures. This is fantasy. Saying it over-and-over DOESN'T make it true.

I believe you're wrong to think that Purdue can use the OSU model and approach to scheme and have any chance to win, even modestly. There is little to no evidence it's worked anywhere with 2 exceptions. One is Wisconsin that was able to pull it off under Alvarez....and Michigan State recently. Wisconsin had the advantage of being the only B10 school in the state, and MSU took advantage of chaos at Michigan for an extended period of time.

I've come the conclusion that Purdue's only chance of being competitive is to go the gimmick route. The Spread is not a gimmick any more. Too many teams in B10 run it. I think you have to go as radical as the wishbone or something like that. Some old school scheme that you are confident that no one else in your conference will adopt. At least you get an identity that way and everyone has to adjust to you rather than the other way around.

This "balanced" Tressel approach is neither fish nor fowl. Purdue is good at nothing and mediocre at everything. Living by the 3-ring binder doesn't translate at Purdue (or IU, Illinois, etc). I believe their only chance is to go all-in on a radical approach.
 
I know it's not the 70's, but I had a bad feeling when Hazell was hired because it reminded me of past failures by other B10 programs during that general era. It's the tendency of lesser football programs hiring assistants from Michigan and Ohio State. The two that come to mind are Gary Moeller (sp?) at Illinois and Glen Mason. Moeller was an assistant at Michigan under Bo and Mason came from OSU (later on, but the lesson still applies). Back then, Michigan and OSU's second squads could beat all of the other schools first teams because there we no scholarship limits. They blew all of the other teams off the line because they had by-far the best talent. So Moeller and Mason knew how to coach that style....and it failed miserably at Illinois and Minny. The systems they knew only work if you have vastly superior talent. The basketball analogy is all of the Duke assistants that get hired....none of which have ever even made a final four (hint, they don't get the players that Duke gets because of the brand name).

Hazell is a Tressel protege. Tressel was a good coach, but he also was the master of winning games 17-13 against teams that OSU should have beaten by 30 pts. Tressel won big because he had the best players....period. Not because he had some magical scheme or approach to life. There is no way Tressel would have had the level of success he had if he had coached at a middling B10 program. So Hazell absorbs the "Tressel way" with his 3-ring binder of "rules to live by". Based on first-hand experience, of course Coach Hazell has every reason to believe the "rules to live by" work. But guess what? The Tressel rules and that 3-ring binder only work (translate that to winning games) if you have better players at almost every position.

Hazell strikes me as a tremendously earnest guy who really believes the 3-ring binder. But the 3-ring binder doesn't apply here. It's not the absolute truth. He seems stubborn to a fault....because dammit, "I'm doing everything by the 3-ring binder.....and the binder was always right at OSU?" He really believes that if you do it the "right way", it doesn't matter if you don't have by-far the best players they get by default at OSU. This is why he is the king of the cliche. In order to keep believing, he has to keep repeating it. It becomes propaganda, even if it's done innocently and not cynically like many public figures. This is fantasy. Saying it over-and-over DOESN'T make it true.

I believe you're wrong to think that Purdue can use the OSU model and approach to scheme and have any chance to win, even modestly. There is little to no evidence it's worked anywhere with 2 exceptions. One is Wisconsin that was able to pull it off under Alvarez....and Michigan State recently. Wisconsin had the advantage of being the only B10 school in the state, and MSU took advantage of chaos at Michigan for an extended period of time.

I've come the conclusion that Purdue's only chance of being competitive is to go the gimmick route. The Spread is not a gimmick any more. Too many teams in B10 run it. I think you have to go as radical as the wishbone or something like that. Some old school scheme that you are confident that no one else in your conference will adopt. At least you get an identity that way and everyone has to adjust to you rather than the other way around.

This "balanced" Tressel approach is neither fish nor fowl. Purdue is good at nothing and mediocre at everything. Living by the 3-ring binder doesn't translate at Purdue (or IU, Illinois, etc). I believe their only chance is to go all-in on a radical approach.
If we are going to go to the extreme, Hire Kevin Kelley and play balls-out Tecmo Bowl football. Wishbone would put even more folks to sleep.
 
I know it's not the 70's, but I had a bad feeling when Hazell was hired because it reminded me of past failures by other B10 programs during that general era. It's the tendency of lesser football programs hiring assistants from Michigan and Ohio State. The two that come to mind are Gary Moeller (sp?) at Illinois and Glen Mason. Moeller was an assistant at Michigan under Bo and Mason came from OSU (later on, but the lesson still applies). Back then, Michigan and OSU's second squads could beat all of the other schools first teams because there we no scholarship limits. They blew all of the other teams off the line because they had by-far the best talent. So Moeller and Mason knew how to coach that style....and it failed miserably at Illinois and Minny. The systems they knew only work if you have vastly superior talent. The basketball analogy is all of the Duke assistants that get hired....none of which have ever even made a final four (hint, they don't get the players that Duke gets because of the brand name).

Hazell is a Tressel protege. Tressel was a good coach, but he also was the master of winning games 17-13 against teams that OSU should have beaten by 30 pts. Tressel won big because he had the best players....period. Not because he had some magical scheme or approach to life. There is no way Tressel would have had the level of success he had if he had coached at a middling B10 program. So Hazell absorbs the "Tressel way" with his 3-ring binder of "rules to live by". Based on first-hand experience, of course Coach Hazell has every reason to believe the "rules to live by" work. But guess what? The Tressel rules and that 3-ring binder only work (translate that to winning games) if you have better players at almost every position.

Hazell strikes me as a tremendously earnest guy who really believes the 3-ring binder. But the 3-ring binder doesn't apply here. It's not the absolute truth. He seems stubborn to a fault....because dammit, "I'm doing everything by the 3-ring binder.....and the binder was always right at OSU?" He really believes that if you do it the "right way", it doesn't matter if you don't have by-far the best players they get by default at OSU. This is why he is the king of the cliche. In order to keep believing, he has to keep repeating it. It becomes propaganda, even if it's done innocently and not cynically like many public figures. This is fantasy. Saying it over-and-over DOESN'T make it true.

I believe you're wrong to think that Purdue can use the OSU model and approach to scheme and have any chance to win, even modestly. There is little to no evidence it's worked anywhere with 2 exceptions. One is Wisconsin that was able to pull it off under Alvarez....and Michigan State recently. Wisconsin had the advantage of being the only B10 school in the state, and MSU took advantage of chaos at Michigan for an extended period of time.

I've come the conclusion that Purdue's only chance of being competitive is to go the gimmick route. The Spread is not a gimmick any more. Too many teams in B10 run it. I think you have to go as radical as the wishbone or something like that. Some old school scheme that you are confident that no one else in your conference will adopt. At least you get an identity that way and everyone has to adjust to you rather than the other way around.

This "balanced" Tressel approach is neither fish nor fowl. Purdue is good at nothing and mediocre at everything. Living by the 3-ring binder doesn't translate at Purdue (or IU, Illinois, etc). I believe their only chance is to go all-in on a radical approach.

like your post, don't ever think you'll see the Bone again, but an option attack like what Ga. Tech runs is pretty nice. Still think we should hire Mike Norvell and go high octane.
 
The radical scheme would either be the air raid or the run offense that Auburn uses.

Also, Mason was a decent coach, fans at Minny just got greedy. Look up his record.
 
The radical scheme would either be the air raid or the run offense that Auburn uses.

Also, Mason was a decent coach, fans at Minny just got greedy. Look up his record.

So noted on Mason....but I don't think it undermines my argument that Hazell's approach does not, and will never, translate well at Purdue or other middling programs in the Power 5 conferences. You need to get your fair-share of elite recruits for it to have a chance.
 
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like your post, don't ever think you'll see the Bone again, but an option attack like what Ga. Tech runs is pretty nice. Still think we should hire Mike Norvell and go high octane.

Yes....the Ga Tech approach is what I'm talking about.
 
Ga tech is doing it with much better recruits.

They are in the middle of one of the richest recruiting areas in the country

Let's make something very clear. Georgia Tech has pretty good talent on their team - but it is NOT more talented than Purdue was for many years under Tiller. Almost all of their recruits are 3 star recruits with some 4 stars mixed in.

This is NOT "unachievable" at Purdue.

What they don't have is 2 star recruits. People on here think they're all diamonds in the rough when they come to Purdue.

They have 8 two star recruits in the last 4 recruiting classes and 4 four star recruits. The rest are 3 star recruits!

What's the difference? We had 14 TWO STAR recruits in just our 2015 recruiting class! We had 10 TWO STAR recruits in our 2014 class! That's 24 two star recruits in the last 2 years when Georgia Tech has had 8 over four years.

We do not have depth. We can continue to have the pipe dream that our 2 star recruits are all diamonds in the rough. But you are simply going to have a VERY hard time being competitive recruiting at the level we are with this many 2 star and low-level 3 star recruits.
 
To me, we don't need no radical change. Shoop trying to be the smartest guy guy in the room is the problem and flaunt his NFL "expertise" is the problem. He's having guys learn complex playbooks. That's the wrong idea. We're talking about the attention span of 18-22 year old guys who have the distraction of classes, workouts, co-eds, Madden, twitter, Facebook, etc. You give these kids all these things to do than during practice expect them to remember "Brown Right F Short 2 Jet Flanker Drive". Zzzzzzz. These kids' minds are asleep trying to remember that. Successful offenses now have dumbed down for kids. Baylor, Oregon, TCU, Texas A&M all use little to no playbook. Art Briles (my favorite offensive mind in football), who's Baylor team is averaging 754 yards a game right (754!), says there's no reason to make it difficult. His offense, which is ran by Bowling Green and Tulsa (2nd and 3rd respectively in yards per game to Baylor) all are running his offense.

Sample of a great article about Baylor's offense:
"I don't know why you'd want to make things difficult if you don't have to," Briles said.

The offense is deadly simple in its approach.

First, go fast. Second, spread the field about as wide as possible. Third, run inside to take advantage of all that space created by receivers lined up outside the hash marks. Fourth, go deep — a lot.

"It's easy to buy into it because you see results and I think the biggest part about it is it's fun," said Tulsa quarterback Dane Evans, who is second in the country with 390.7 yards passing per game after throwing four touchdowns in a 52-38 loss at Oklahoma. "And when something is fun it's really easy to put in the hard work, the time it takes to start figuring this offense out."
http://www.usnews.com/news/sports/a...r-effect-spread-energizes-bowling-green-tulsa


Conclusion: Shoop is doing the exact opposite of what he should be doing. So let's get rid of him (and Hazell).
 
To me, we don't need no radical change. Shoop trying to be the smartest guy guy in the room is the problem and flaunt his NFL "expertise" is the problem. He's having guys learn complex playbooks. That's the wrong idea. We're talking about the attention span of 18-22 year old guys who have the distraction of classes, workouts, co-eds, Madden, twitter, Facebook, etc. You give these kids all these things to do than during practice expect them to remember "Brown Right F Short 2 Jet Flanker Drive". Zzzzzzz. These kids' minds are asleep trying to remember that. Successful offenses now have dumbed down for kids. Baylor, Oregon, TCU, Texas A&M all use little to no playbook. Art Briles (my favorite offensive mind in football), who's Baylor team is averaging 754 yards a game right (754!), says there's no reason to make it difficult. His offense, which is ran by Bowling Green and Tulsa (2nd and 3rd respectively in yards per game to Baylor) all are running his offense.

Sample of a great article about Baylor's offense:
"I don't know why you'd want to make things difficult if you don't have to," Briles said.

The offense is deadly simple in its approach.

First, go fast. Second, spread the field about as wide as possible. Third, run inside to take advantage of all that space created by receivers lined up outside the hash marks. Fourth, go deep — a lot.

"It's easy to buy into it because you see results and I think the biggest part about it is it's fun," said Tulsa quarterback Dane Evans, who is second in the country with 390.7 yards passing per game after throwing four touchdowns in a 52-38 loss at Oklahoma. "And when something is fun it's really easy to put in the hard work, the time it takes to start figuring this offense out."
http://www.usnews.com/news/sports/a...r-effect-spread-energizes-bowling-green-tulsa


Conclusion: Shoop is doing the exact opposite of what he should be doing. So let's get rid of him (and Hazell).

People scapegoating Shoop aren't seeing the big picture. I think it's utterly stupid to install a "3 year learning process" offense at a struggling program - let alone a well established program, don't get me wrong.

However, it all starts at the top. Shoop has remained offensive coordinator and now is in his 3rd year.

Also, let's not ignore the defense.

We're giving up:

-35+ points per game.
-187 yards rushing per game
-220 yards per game
For a total of 407 yards per game!

You're not going to get many wins with those kind of defensive stats even with a great offense. Our defense is just as bad as our offense. And quite frankly, our special teams are pretty bad too!

Basically, we aren't good in all 3 aspects of the game. I'll be damned if Morgan gets by getting Shoop fired and moving on because this is just a bad football program.
 
People scapegoating Shoop aren't seeing the big picture. I think it's utterly stupid to install a "3 year learning process" offense at a struggling program - let alone a well established program, don't get me wrong.

However, it all starts at the top. Shoop has remained offensive coordinator and now is in his 3rd year.

Also, let's not ignore the defense.

We're giving up:

-35+ points per game.
-187 yards rushing per game
-220 yards per game
For a total of 407 yards per game!

You're not going to get many wins with those kind of defensive stats even with a great offense. Our defense is just as bad as our offense. And quite frankly, our special teams are pretty bad too!

Basically, we aren't good in all 3 aspects of the game. I'll be damned if Morgan gets by getting Shoop fired and moving on because this is just a bad football program.
I do get what you're saying. But Hudson and our D is the least of our problems. It's the offense that makes the D look bad. Time of possession/plays per game are the bottom 25% in college football.
I won't include this year (2 games isn't enough data in my opinion).

2014 - T.o.P. - 28:42, 97th out of 128
Plays per game - 71.5, 84th out of 128

2013 - T.o.P. - 26:55, 116th out of 125
Plays per game - 64.3, 122nd out of 125

That's an offense that neither racks up many plays or holds the ball for very long. A defense can hold for so long til it breaks. Keep putting exhausted defenders out on the field after countless 3 and outs, and they'll break.
 
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