The great Unifier

[Bill4411]

lol is that what you get off on? I think trump is a standard politician. He’s a fake populist who is excellent at working a crowd.

his actual policies were pretty standard… he got together with democratic senators to do a lot of things that most of his supporters probably don’t care for and don’t want.. renewing FISA, adding 81 billion to the military budget.

No, I am not a trumper, but I think he’s an entertaining troll.

I understand the anti-Trump strategy though. “Trump is this unprecedented threat,” so anything opposing him is automatically good.

so, where as during bernie’s first campaign, it was pretty clear that most of America didn’t like destructive neoliberalism, now, to be on the right team, you had to love neoliberalism because trump!

if you wanna be on “the left” in today’s dual propaganda construct, you can’t question anything if it’s anti Trump.

who would I like to vote for? Henry Wallace. But both anti-populist “sides” will make sure that that is never an option. They’re still outraged that William Jennings Bryan’s failure led to FDR and the new deal

I like Henry Wallace but he admitted he feel for the Soviets in believing Stalin. Henry Wallace was indeed a good man but FDR probably made a good decision in replacing him with Truman. I would say in American history Trump is more like Huey Long than Bernie. Bernie is just an old flower child who enjoys being thought of as a radical.

I believe most people who enter politics have good intentions or at least not malevolent ones but not all unfortunately.

Trump was in it for fame and fortune. He is such a suck up to people he feels are important and wouldn’t have the time of day for most of his supporters unless they are rich and can do something for him.

 

[Bill4411]

What did Trump do for people like yourself? He allowed you to elect George w. Bush as a democrat .. just 12 years after George bush was also “the worst evil this world has seen!” Isn’t it funny how every guy is the worst person ever? And regular people must put aside their policy preferences to save us from this unprecedented evil…?

Bush’s first term was a disaster. He was better in the second. Hopefully Trump didn’t due permanent damage to the US but he still is causing serious issues so we’ll have to see if Trump is going to be the absolute bottom of the barrel of American President’s.

 

[Riveting]

Not at all just confirming you are an absolute hardcore Trumper and have behavior pretty much like the Borg.

Says a guy who apparently still somehow thinks that Trump colluded with Russia in 2016.

 

[Bill4411]

Says a guy who apparently still somehow thinks that Trump colluded with Russia in 2016.

I sure do and I think it will ultimately be proven. People like you will never believe it though.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I like Henry Wallace but he admitted he feel for the Soviets in believing Stalin. Henry Wallace was indeed a good man but FDR probably made a good decision in replacing him with Truman. I would say in American history Trump is more like Huey Long than Bernie. Bernie is just an old flower child who enjoys being thought of as a radical.

I believe most people who enter politics have good intentions or at least not malevolent ones but not all unfortunately.

Probably depends who you are.. if you’re a working class person, Wallace was clearly better based on POLICY. If you’re a corporatist professional class so called liberal who the party began to serve in 1972, then the first corporate democrat (post new deal) Truman is probably your guy. The core of the anti trump crowd are just Clintonites. 2016 made it clear that they were getting run out, but their play was “but fascism”.. and that play has convinced enough working class dupes that they need to favor things that they once hated.. neoliberalism.

Bernie, like AOC and the squad, is controlled opposition. He can talk like Wallace as long as he knows when it’s time to be helpless. He’s not a dreamer or anything of the sort. But just like republicans will call any democratic president a socialist, you will call him a dreamer

the Bernie strategy is really simple abs brilliant. He gets talked to.. “hey Bernie, there’s a lot of populist anger out there, … before a regular person gets elected and helps workers, why don’t you act as a vacuum? You’re not Ralph Nader after all right Bernie?”

 

[Riveting]

I sure do and I think it will ultimately be proven. People like you will never believe it though.

I would have if the three-year, 80-million or whatever it was Mueller investigation had proven it.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Bush’s first term was a disaster. He was better in the second. Hopefully Trump didn’t due permanent damage to the US but he still is causing serious issues so we’ll have to see if Trump is going to be the absolute bottom of the barrel of American President’s.

Trump allowed Clintonites to elect George bush part 2 as a democrat… his name is joe Biden. Policy wise they’re as much of a comp as Kobe and Jordan lol.

I know you know that. It’s gonna take awhile for bob the public school teacher (who is a democrat because He’s in the teachers Union) to figure out that “come on man” and dubya are the same guy

 

[Bill4411]

I would have if the three-year, 80-million or whatever it was Mueller investigation had proven it.

Mueller investigation was limited by who controlled the Department of Justice: Billy Barr. Do you think Mueller had a free hand? Trump wouldn’t let them look at his finances for instances. BTW the investigation didn’t cost anything as turned out because they collected more than that from Paul Manafort.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I would have if the three-year, 80-million or whatever it was Mueller investigation had proven it.

Ahh the modern media.. Carlson abs Maddow have both been sued and have both successfully argued that their audience should know not to believe them lol.

Maddow viewers don’t know that the mueller report came up with zilch

 

[indy35]

Mueller investigation was limited by who controlled the Department of Justice: Billy Barr. Do you think Mueller had a free hand. Trump wouldn’t let them look at his finances for instances. BTW the investigation didn’t cost anything as turned out because they collected more than that from Paul Manafort.

We know from the Senate Report that Trump's campaign manager sent internal polling data to a Russian intelligence agent.

 

[Bill4411]

Ahh the modern media.. Carlson abs Maddow have both been sued and have both successfully argued that their audience should know not to believe them lol.

Maddow viewers don’t know that the mueller report came up with zilch

If you actually read it I don’t know how you can come up with that collusion. The inquiry was ended prematurely in my opinion because Trump and Barr were applying pressure on Mueller to wind it up.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Mueller investigation was limited by who controlled the Department of Justice: Billy Barr. Do you think Mueller had a free hand? Trump wouldn’t let them look at his finances for instances. BTW the investigation didn’t cost anything as turned out because they collected more than that from Paul Manafort.

The investigation had one purpose..

when working class democrats wanted to know why the Democratic Party didn’t have policies that improved their lives.. the investigation was their way of not answering.

And it worked, well done

Always remember.. the democrats could run on things like single payer, ending the wars, free local state college and a whole host of other things and they’d sweep back into power.. but they just won’t do it.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

If you actually read it I don’t know how you can come up with that collusion. The inquiry was ended prematurely in my opinion because Trump and Barr were applying pressure on Mueller to wind it up.

If they had evidence you would have seen it. I bet you don’t because it’s a very useful propaganda construct. Again, it answers the question “why can’t we have policies that improve our lives?” “Because the Russians.”

 

[Bill4411]

If they had evidence you would have seen it. I bet you don’t because it’s a very useful propaganda construct. Again, it answers the question “why can’t we have policies that improve our lives?” “Because the Russians.”

Talk to Roger Stone and Paul Manafort about that they knew where the bodies were buried and they got pardons to keep them quiet.

 

[Riveting]

Talk to Roger Stone and Paul Manafort about that they knew where the bodies were buried and they got pardons to keep them quiet.

Right, and don't forget the famous "dossier" as well.

If Barr really controlled DOJ, they would never have sent a 29-man SWAT team to arrest and humiliate 68-year-old Stone before sunrise, with an embedded cnn crew in tow. One of the most shameful episodes in DOJ history.

 

[TheGunner]

You mean not recognizing that he lost the election would be a good place to start, trying to start an insurrection, colluding with Russia, trying to restrict voting rights, which of course you refuse to see.

Are you able to use the same investigative lens at the Biden’s and Hunters business dealings? I’ll wait for a detailed report

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Talk to Roger Stone and Paul Manafort about that they knew where the bodies were buried and they got pardons to keep them quiet.

Regular people don’t care about that… if you wanna tell me what evidence there is that they colluded with the Russians to throw the election that’s one thing. “They know stuff” is another.

again, if you keep going with this you never have to offer Nancy the nurse policies that improve her life

 

[Boilermaker03]

You mean not recognizing that he lost the election would be a good place to start, trying to start an insurrection, colluding with Russia, trying to restrict voting rights, which of course you refuse to see.

JFC, go look at what Hillary did when she lost. She did pretty much everything Trump did. Even went to court. And she STILL does speeking events and says it was stolen from her.

Trump didn't try to start an insurrection. That's BS entirely! He said very specifically in his speech that they were going to march to the capitol and peacefully and patriotically protest. That's not calling for an overthrow.

Please explain how he's trying to restrict voting rights. My guess is you're full of shit on that.

 

[Boilermaker03]

So

So tired of seeing this "we aren't a democracy" crap used as an argument. First of all, yes we are:

Definition of democracy | Dictionary.com

The definition of Democracy is government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system. See additional meanings and similar words.

www.dictionary.com

Definition of DEMOCRACY

government by the people; especially : rule of the majority; a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Democracy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Second of all, pointing out that we are a "republic," while true, doesn't really change anything (I recognize you didn't do that here, but usually people say "we're a republic, not a democracy" when making this point). Notice the definition is basically the same:

Definition of republic | Dictionary.com

Republic definition, a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them. See more.

www.dictionary.com

Definition of REPUBLIC

a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president; a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Republic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Third of all, using this argument is simply dishonest about the other person's position. Everyone knows we're not a DIRECT democracy (except for certain things, like propositions in CA) and that's not what people mean, generally, when they refer to the US as a democracy. But us not being a "direct democracy" does not mean we are not a "democracy." When people talk about democracy in discussions like these, they are referring to either the fact that we are self-governed via voting or they're colloquially referring to our government itself in broad terms (ie. "our democracy").

No we are not an actual democracy. You obviously do not know the difference between a democracy and a republic. The electoral college is a big part of what makes us a republic. That's why you can have a president that does not win the popular vote. By definition of a democracy, the winner would have to ALWAYS win the popular vote. The separation of powers is another way we differ from a democracy. There are overlaps for sure, but we definitely are NOT a democracy and Trump in no way was trying to destroy that, which was the point of what I was getting at and you decided to take us all on this side rant of confusion in which you don't understand our government.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

No we are not an actual democracy. A democracy would be when we have an election without the electoral college. You obviously do not know the difference between a democracy and a republic. The electoral college is a big part of what makes us a republic. That's why you can have a president that does not win the popular vote. By definition of a democracy, the winner would have to ALWAYS win the popular vote. The separation of powers is another way we differ from a democracy. There are overlaps for sure, but we definitely are NOT a democracy and Trump in no way was trying to destroy that, which was the point of what I was getting at and you decided to take us all on this side rant of confusion in which you don't understand our government.

Or when the bottom 85% of income earners have more an a near non existent impact on policy. It’s an oligarchy … professional class democrats think if they act polite and show regard for gender neutral bathrooms, it’s not an oligarchy. It is .. at least some oil tycoon in Texas can tell you it is and that you better figure it out.

the democrats lol ..

 

[Boilermaker03]

Bush’s first term was a disaster. He was better in the second. Hopefully Trump didn’t due permanent damage to the US but he still is causing serious issues so we’ll have to see if Trump is going to be the absolute bottom of the barrel of American President’s.

JFC I can't believe there are people stupid enough to believe that Trump did damage to this country. I didn't vote for him the first time around, but I did the second time around because he got shit done and our country was doing very well despite the idiotic lies of the left and MSM.

Was he perfect? **** no, but he was the best we've had in forever.

 

[Boilermaker03]

I sure do and I think it will ultimately be proven. People like you will never believe it though.

WTF??? It's already been proven that he didn't... Jesus man.

 

[Bill4411]

JFC I can't believe there are people stupid enough to believe that Trump did damage to this country. I didn't vote for him the first time around, but I did the second time around because he got shit done and our country was doing very well despite the idiotic lies of the left and MSM.

Was he perfect? **** no, but he was the best we've had in forever.

Drinking the Kool aid full strength tonight.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Mueller investigation was limited by who controlled the Department of Justice: Billy Barr. Do you think Mueller had a free hand? Trump wouldn’t let them look at his finances for instances. BTW the investigation didn’t cost anything as turned out because they collected more than that from Paul Manafort.

JFC, this is ridiculous lol

 

[Bill4411]

Are you able to use the same investigative lens at the Biden’s and Hunters business dealings? I’ll wait for a detailed report

Hunter sucks, I agree.

 

[Bill4411]

JFC, this is ridiculous lol

I'm glad you're entertained.

 

[Boilermaker03]

If you actually read it I don’t know how you can come up with that collusion. The inquiry was ended prematurely in my opinion because Trump and Barr were applying pressure on Mueller to wind it up.

So a 3 year investigation isn't long enough? Jesus, I was told by all these lefties that 2-3 months is MORE than enough to get all the evidence needed to prove an election is stolen. What do I know...

 

[Bill4411]

So a 3 year investigation isn't long enough? Jesus, I was told by all these lefties that 2-3 months is MORE than enough to get all the evidence needed to prove an election is stolen. What do I know...

 

[Boilermaker03]

Drinking the Kool aid full strength tonight.

I'm not the one drinking anything.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Hunter sucks, I agree.

Biden is just as bad. They were BOTH taking money from China. There is WAY more evidence of that than Trump ever colluding with Russia.

 

[Boilermaker03]

I'm glad you're entertained.

Still waiting to hear how Trump was trying to "destroy our democracy"...

 

[BuilderBob6]

JFC, go look at what Hillary did when she lost. She did pretty much everything Trump did. Even went to court. And she STILL does speeking events and says it was stolen from her.

Trump didn't try to start an insurrection. That's BS entirely! He said very specifically in his speech that they were going to march to the capitol and peacefully and patriotically protest. That's not calling for an overthrow.

Please explain how he's trying to restrict voting rights. My guess is you're full of shit on that.

Hillary pretty much did everything trump did? Are you freaking looney? You consider a few recounts the same as what trump did.......and is STILL doing 8 months later? Trump even fought those recounts. He even claimed fraud in states he lost in that election

 

[Bill4411]

Still waiting to hear how Trump was trying to "destroy our democracy"...

You don't think what he's doing now with the "stop the steal" is not a worthy case? He is trying to make every election seem unfair...btw he's full of shit he lost and by 7 million votes.

 

[Bill4411]

Hillary pretty much did everything trump did? Are you freaking looney? You consider a few recounts the same as what trump did.......and is STILL doing 8 months later? Trump even fought those recounts. He even claimed fraud in states he lost in that election

Trump is a petulant child who was sent to rich kids reform school by his parents. Fred (dad) I'm sorry to say it didn't work.

 

[Droid12345]

No we are not an actual democracy. You obviously do not know the difference between a democracy and a republic. The electoral college is a big part of what makes us a republic. That's why you can have a president that does not win the popular vote. By definition of a democracy, the winner would have to ALWAYS win the popular vote. The separation of powers is another way we differ from a democracy. There are overlaps for sure, but we definitely are NOT a democracy and Trump in no way was trying to destroy that, which was the point of what I was getting at and you decided to take us all on this side rant of confusion in which you don't understand our government.

Definition of a democracy: "a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

Definition of a republic: "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."

I think you'll find both of those describe the basis for our system of government and that they are, essentially, the same thing.

When people refer to America as a "democracy," this is what they mean. They're not talking about direct democracy, which appears to be the only thing you'll count as a democracy. The electoral college, while idiotic, does not disqualify us from being a democracy. They would be the "elected agents" who are entrusted with the "supreme power" to chose our president. This is just like how we elect representatives and senators to act as "elected agents" for the purposes of creating laws. Hence, the "indirect" part of the definition. Separation of powers does not disqualify us from being a democracy, either, because what makes a government democratic is that the people have the power to choose. Separation of powers is irrelevant. If people get to vote on stuff, and those votes actually matter (unlike, say, North Korea) it's some form of a democracy.

Make your Trump argument all you want, I don't care about that. But get out of here with this ridiculous we're not a democracy stuff, because it's just asinine. It wasn't my intention to actually get into an argument about this, so I won't post about it anymore, but I've just seen so many people use this "republic not a democracy" argument as if it actually refutes the other person's position because they used the word "democracy." It's a perfectly acceptable way to refer to our government, given the definition.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Hillary pretty much did everything trump did? Are you freaking looney? You consider a few recounts the same as what trump did.......and is STILL doing 8 months later? Trump even fought those recounts. He even claimed fraud in states he lost in that election

Dude, it's over 4 years later and Hillary still tells audiences that the election was stolen from her. She also went to court over the election. Yes, she did just as much as Trump did. You don't hear how much she really did because the MSM chooses not to cover it.

 

[Boilermaker03]

You don't think what he's doing now with the "stop the steal" is not a worthy case? He is trying to make every election seem unfair...btw he's full of shit he lost and by 7 million votes.

No I think we needed to have done a real full audit, which we never did (even though people here will claim we did, we didn't). A full audit audits every single ballot, not a selection of a couple hundred. We shall see if he's full of shit or not. There are still some ongoing cases in court that have seemingly come up with some significant evidence (whether true or not is yet to be seen).

The notion that this sleepy moron in office now received more votes than Obama is laughable.

 

[Boilermaker03]

I don't care what anyone says on the Left. There is a large number of people that will never believe Biden won fairly until a full audit is done. I said this back during the election. I don't understand why anyone on the left would be against that. If Biden won fairly, then the audit would have shown that. Argument over. Instead, all we got was fake audits and hand recounts labelled audits. Hence, a large number of people that believe the election was stolen. Period. You want to unify the country, give us a full audit.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Definition of a democracy: "a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system."

Definition of a republic: "a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."

I think you'll find both of those describe the basis for our system of government and that they are, essentially, the same thing.

When people refer to America as a "democracy," this is what they mean. They're not talking about direct democracy, which appears to be the only thing you'll count as a democracy. The electoral college, while idiotic, does not disqualify us from being a democracy. They would be the "elected agents" who are entrusted with the "supreme power" to chose our president. This is just like how we elect representatives and senators to act as "elected agents" for the purposes of creating laws. Hence, the "indirect" part of the definition. Separation of powers does not disqualify us from being a democracy, either, because what makes a government democratic is that the people have the power to choose. Separation of powers is irrelevant. If people get to vote on stuff, and those votes actually matter (unlike, say, North Korea) it's some form of a democracy.

Make your Trump argument all you want, I don't care about that. But get out of here with this ridiculous we're not a democracy stuff, because it's just asinine. It wasn't my intention to actually get into an argument about this, so I won't post about it anymore, but I've just seen so many people use this "republic not a democracy" argument as if it actually refutes the other person's position because they used the word "democracy." It's a perfectly acceptable way to refer to our government, given the definition.

Like I said, there are definite overlaps between a democracy and a republic, but there is a difference. We are not a democracy.

https://www.aei.org/articles/democracy-or-republic/?gclid=CjwKCAjwo4mIBhBsEiwAKgzXOJXmn1QN6wGXUmJPWHmGOEC9_xUTZH5JvhcGgTCnqJ13q8nd--P_qBoCXT0QAvD_BwE

 

[Bill4411]

No I think we needed to have done a real full audit, which we never did (even though people here will claim we did, we didn't). A full audit audits every single ballot, not a selection of a couple hundred. We shall see if he's full of shit or not. There are still some ongoing cases in court that have seemingly come up with some significant evidence (whether true or not is yet to be seen).

The notion that this sleepy moron in office now received more votes than Obama is laughable.

When did we ever do a full audit? That is just your Trump talking points that you are mouthing. BTW when is the Cyber Ninja guy going to get done with the Arizona audit so he can then tell us how many bamboo ballots he had to reject because they came from China? We never would have a new president at the rate of speed he is proceeding and that is just one county he and his troops have been recounting-at least supposedly.