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The Facts

collegehoopsfan123

True Freshman
Oct 15, 2021
674
693
93
18 years with Coach Painter

From 2007 - 2012
, Purdue lost to 5 teams that made the FF,

3 that made the Title Game, and 2 that won the National Championship.

From 2013 - 2023, Purdue lost to 1 team that won the National Championship.


Purdue beat a higher seeded team in 2007, 2009, 2012, and 2019.

Other than 2019, there have been too many offensive limitations

on Purdue teams since 2013. That is 11 years and counting.
 
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Despite all the complaints about bad offense in the last few tournaments (and I agree with that), I feel like Painter's earlier teams were more offensively limited and more focused on defense. I don't really have any data to back that up (because I don't want to pour through hours of it :D), but those teams felt more like Keady era Purdue basketball. The last four or five years seemed like Painter had changed philosophy to be more offensively oriented. It's a bit ironic that our offense has fallen on its face two tournaments in a row. I wish Carsen could still use his remaining eligibility. :D
 
Despite all the complaints about bad offense in the last few tournaments (and I agree with that), I feel like Painter's earlier teams were more offensively limited and more focused on defense. I don't really have any data to back that up (because I don't want to pour through hours of it :D), but those teams felt more like Keady era Purdue basketball. The last four or five years seemed like Painter had changed philosophy to be more offensively oriented. It's a bit ironic that our offense has fallen on its face two tournaments in a row. I wish Carsen could still use his remaining eligibility. :D
If not for Carsen Edwards, Painter would have 0 Elite 8 appearances

and not have beaten a higher seed in March Madness since 2012 with Robbie.
 
To Painters credit he let Carsen go when he got hot, but it was a struggle early playing in that offense. He struggled with Ivey a bit more and with Iveys turnovers ( still a problem in the NBA). I don't think deep down he totally wants these talents because they don't fit his conservative way of coaching both in style and attitude.
 
To Painters credit he let Carsen go when he got hot, but it was a struggle early playing in that offense. He struggled with Ivey a bit more and with Iveys turnovers ( still a problem in the NBA). I don't think deep down he totally wants these talents because they don't fit his conservative way of coaching both in style and attitude.
You could even take a step back from that. Sasha and loyer in consecutive years hurt purdue down the stretch. They shot bad and were limited defensively, not good ball handlers, etc but played over guys that could compete in the ncaa tourney. Matt's got to quit hitting the easy button and do what's best for the team.
 
You could even take a step back from that. Sasha and loyer in consecutive years hurt purdue down the stretch. They shot bad and were limited defensively, not good ball handlers, etc but played over guys that could compete in the ncaa tourney. Matt's got to quit hitting the easy button and do what's best for the team.
Stefanovic getting so many minutes was infuriating. He contributed nothing.
 
18 years with Coach Painter

From 2007 - 2012
, Purdue lost to 5 teams that made the FF,

3 that made the Title Game, and 2 that won the National Championship.

From 2013 - 2023, Purdue lost to 1 team that won the National Championship.


Purdue beat a higher seeded team in 2007, 2009, 2012, and 2019.

Other than 2019, there have been too many offensive limitations

on Purdue teams since 2013. That is 11 years and counting.


Hope Colvin, Heide, Berg, all prove to be versatile offensive players.

We might still need 2 guys from the transfer portal like Jon Octeus or better.


Lastly, Kaufmen-Renn and Furst have hit enough 3-point shots that if they

played more together, could space the floor and allow for more driving

angles
for some of our guards. They could both space the floor more

by hitting longer 2-point shots as well. Give the other teams different

looks Coach!
I'd be happy if Furst never shot another 3 in his career. That's not a diss, I know he can shoot better than he's shown. But his skills lie elsewhere. I'd love to see them used appropriately (he has a low post game) than see him trying to play euroball. He and TKR need to switch roles when out together. Fine with TKR shooting a few.
 
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What collegehoopsfan said is a fact, no way without Carsen. What New Pal said is conjecture. Perhaps a good possibility, but not clear that shooting would not have gone awry, or bad decisions would have been made resulting in more tournament failures.
 
To Painters credit he let Carsen go when he got hot, but it was a struggle early playing in that offense. He struggled with Ivey a bit more and with Iveys turnovers ( still a problem in the NBA). I don't think deep down he totally wants these talents because they don't fit his conservative way of coaching both in style and attitude.

He trusts bucketmakers.

Yes deep down, anyone that turns the ball over just bothers him alot to no end.....to the point he has trust issues with the player.

Unless of course you are a bucketmaker...then he trusts you.. And this is why his leash has been like a choke collar on anybody not named, Ivey, CE or Edey of late.

Of course this is the exact thing that causes late season choke jobs. As the players that don't have his trust, and have any negative plays have been trained to shut down their natural basketball instincts in favor of perfect game plan play. Sad really, and is the only beef I have with his coaching.

Btw he also trusts guys he thinks are his best defenders. But then come March, that doesn't really help you anyway, as it's all about scoring.
 
If not for Robbie Hummel and Isaac Haas getting hurt, he would have 3 or 4 Elite Eight appearances.

See how that works ?
Robbie Hummel I buy that all day long....I think you mean Final Four appearances.

Not Haas. He would have made no difference in a 13 point defeat to a very

athletic, guard-oriented Texas Tech team.


My point is, aside from 2019, Purdue has been garbage in the March Madness

since 2012, the end of the Baby Boilers.

11 years with 1 deep tourney run is pathetic.
 
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He trusts bucketmakers.

Yes deep down, anyone that turns the ball over just bothers him alot to no end.....to the point he has trust issues with the player.

Unless of course you are a bucketmaker...then he trusts you.. And this is why his leash has been like a choke collar on anybody not named, Ivey, CE or Edey of late.

Of course this is the exact thing that causes late season choke jobs. As the players that don't have his trust, and have any negative plays have been trained to shut down their natural basketball instincts in favor of perfect game plan play. Sad really, and is the only beef I have with his coaching.

Btw he also trusts guys he thinks are his best defenders. But then come March, that doesn't really help you anyway, as it's all about scoring.
Purdue fans deserve better.
 
Says you.

How many higher seeds does Kansas beat? Do they hang banners in Phog for those?
Purdue has not been the same since the Baby Boilers and Robbie's injury.

At least in 2011 they lost to a FF team and

in 2012 nearly beat the National Runner-Up without Barlow.

2019 is the only exception. You still think Coach Painter is the answer?
 
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Purdue has not been the same since the Baby Boilers and Robbie's injury.

At least in 2011 they lost to a FF team and

in 2012 nearly beat the National Runner-Up without Barlow.

2019 is the only exception. You still think Coach Painter is the answer?
I can’t really express in a simple post how much I disagree with your perspective on our coach. However, I think you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I do think you cherry pick statistics and load up on conjecture to support it, but it’s a free board. Post away!
 
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I can’t really express in a simple post how much I disagree with your perspective on our coach. However, I think you are certainly welcome to your opinion. I do think you cherry pick statistics and load up on conjecture to support it, but it’s a free board. Post away!
Thanks. My opinion is that Purdue fans deserve better.

And if you feel Coach Painter is still the answer, that is fine, too.
 
To Painters credit he let Carsen go when he got hot, but it was a struggle early playing in that offense. He struggled with Ivey a bit more and with Iveys turnovers ( still a problem in the NBA). I don't think deep down he totally wants these talents because they don't fit his conservative way of coaching both in style and attitude.
Warning: Long post/rant.

In general, it seems to me that our guards (outside of Carsen and Cline) are consistently ending the season playing with fear of failure (e.g. doing wrong) and concerned about 'playing correctly' rather than opportunistically, assertively and confidently taking the opportunities they do have on the court. It's like they are playing the game in their head against Painter instead of reacting to the actual team and game on the floor. They play with a 'safety' of just playing the right way and it will work out in the end. There has been a large enough data pool over the years that I'm convinced this is Painter's conditioning and coaching's affect on them. Any natural assertiveness, aggressiveness and opportunistic instinct in them has been conditioned out of them by season's end.

Carsen was just wired differently when he got here. He wouldn't let Paint affect his confidence and had such a high belief in himself and wouldn't let anything or anyone stop him from what he felt was his. Cline senior year benefitted from playing on a team with no low post scorer, so every shot from him was needed and he was an above average shooter who could get hot. Both guys had games that had the fan base shaking their heads in frustration with shot selection. However, both guys needed the freedom to play that way during the regular season to make their tourney run and hot streak a possibility. Take away Carsen's all time tourney run and what does Painter's post season look like since Hummel went down? It is not good. It's not that we lose or didn't get to the Final Four, it's how we are outcoached, out-game planned against by a lesser talented team and we make little to no adjustments. That's what is so difficult to swallow. It's one thing to lose to Lehigh when they had CJ McCollum (bona fide NBA talent). You can accept those. We're losing to teams we should not be losing to.

Painter is without-a-doubt the easiest coach in America to game plan against for a mid-major coach. These mid-major coaches eyes light up with dollar signs when they play Purdue in the tourney. No wonder the FDU coach can call out Purdue so confidently in video before the game, calling his shot to win it and pulling it off, like Babe Ruth pointing to centerfield. Now he has a 5 year deal with Iona.

Look, I like Painter and Purdue has had a lot of success with him at the helm. I don't think he should be fired and, if for some reason he wasn't our coach, I don't think the next guy would have nearly as much regular season success. For the most part (90% of the time), he is a great Xs and Os coach. He has cracked the code to succeed in the B1G. However, he has a huge blind spot in terms of playing a mid-major whose coach game plans to overplay what we try to do. He sticks to his guns and has no counter and walks right into the quicksand time and time again. It is schematic. He needs someone in his inner circle to tell him the hard truth otherwise he'll just dig in his heels and nothing will change. It's a shame because he is a great coach and I honestly believe he'll have tourney success just getting past these mid-major upsets. I just hope he is open minded enough to self reflect and not stubbornly dig his heels in.
 
Robbie Hummel I buy that all day long....I think you mean Final Four appearances.

Not Haas. He would have made no difference in a 13 point defeat to a very

athletic, guard-oriented Texas Tech team.


My point is, aside from 2019, Purdue has been garbage in the March Madness

since 2012, the end of the Baby Boilers.

11 years with 1 deep tourney run is pathetic.
but thankfully WAY better than the loosiers down south :)
 
To Painters credit he let Carsen go when he got hot, but it was a struggle early playing in that offense. He struggled with Ivey a bit more and with Iveys turnovers ( still a problem in the NBA). I don't think deep down he totally wants these talents because they don't fit his conservative way of coaching both in style and attitude.
and that's why Painter needs to go

that entire attitude is pernicious and impacts the players...why do you think we have so many "good" shooters miss open shots when the lights are brightest?
 
Purdue fans deserve better.

I think other than what I mentioned CMP only has a couple flaws other than the postseason..

One, short term recruiting. And two, working the refs.

But he is a winner with 4 B10 championships and two B10 tourneys. That is outstanding. There is a lot of value for the fan going to home games or watching on TV and knowing most times will be a win. That is not the case everywhere. In some places, hardly ever. We are lucky to have a guy that knows how to make winners.
 
Purdue has not been the same since the Baby Boilers and Robbie's injury.

At least in 2011 they lost to a FF team and

in 2012 nearly beat the National Runner-Up without Barlow.

2019 is the only exception. You still think Coach Painter is the answer?


Are you saying you wouldn’t want a 1 seed next year, because we would continue this “pathetic” streak of not beating higher seeds?
 
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Warning: Long post/rant.

In general, it seems to me that our guards (outside of Carsen and Cline) are consistently ending the season playing with fear of failure (e.g. doing wrong) and concerned about 'playing correctly' rather than opportunistically, assertively and confidently taking the opportunities they do have on the court. It's like they are playing the game in their head against Painter instead of reacting to the actual team and game on the floor. They play with a 'safety' of just playing the right way and it will work out in the end. There has been a large enough data pool over the years that I'm convinced this is Painter's conditioning and coaching's affect on them. Any natural assertiveness, aggressiveness and opportunistic instinct in them has been conditioned out of them by season's end.

Carsen was just wired differently when he got here. He wouldn't let Paint affect his confidence and had such a high belief in himself and wouldn't let anything or anyone stop him from what he felt was his. Cline senior year benefitted from playing on a team with no low post scorer, so every shot from him was needed and he was an above average shooter who could get hot. Both guys had games that had the fan base shaking their heads in frustration with shot selection. However, both guys needed the freedom to play that way during the regular season to make their tourney run and hot streak a possibility. Take away Carsen's all time tourney run and what does Painter's post season look like since Hummel went down? It is not good. It's not that we lose or didn't get to the Final Four, it's how we are outcoached, out-game planned against by a lesser talented team and we make little to no adjustments. That's what is so difficult to swallow. It's one thing to lose to Lehigh when they had CJ McCollum (bona fide NBA talent). You can accept those. We're losing to teams we should not be losing to.

Painter is without-a-doubt the easiest coach in America to game plan against for a mid-major coach. These mid-major coaches eyes light up with dollar signs when they play Purdue in the tourney. No wonder the FDU coach can call out Purdue so confidently in video before the game, calling his shot to win it and pulling it off, like Babe Ruth pointing to centerfield. Now he has a 5 year deal with Iona.

Look, I like Painter and Purdue has had a lot of success with him at the helm. I don't think he should be fired and, if for some reason he wasn't our coach, I don't think the next guy would have nearly as much regular season success. For the most part (90% of the time), he is a great Xs and Os coach. He has cracked the code to succeed in the B1G. However, he has a huge blind spot in terms of playing a mid-major whose coach game plans to overplay what we try to do. He sticks to his guns and has no counter and walks right into the quicksand time and time again. It is schematic. He needs someone in his inner circle to tell him the hard truth otherwise he'll just dig in his heels and nothing will change. It's a shame because he is a great coach and I honestly believe he'll have tourney success just getting past these mid-major upsets. I just hope he is open minded enough to self reflect and not stubbornly dig his heels in.
He’s been here 18 years. He’s apparently got job security until he decides it’s time to go. Why would he risk changing? He won’t.
 
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There’s ample evidence to support the argument that Painter is a poor tourney coach and likely to get bounced by a lower seed. There’s virtually no evidence to suggest that even with a fully healthy team (like the last 3 years) that Painter can get past the S16 or beat a higher seed
 
Warning: Long post/rant.

In general, it seems to me that our guards (outside of Carsen and Cline) are consistently ending the season playing with fear of failure (e.g. doing wrong) and concerned about 'playing correctly' rather than opportunistically, assertively and confidently taking the opportunities they do have on the court. It's like they are playing the game in their head against Painter instead of reacting to the actual team and game on the floor. They play with a 'safety' of just playing the right way and it will work out in the end. There has been a large enough data pool over the years that I'm convinced this is Painter's conditioning and coaching's affect on them. Any natural assertiveness, aggressiveness and opportunistic instinct in them has been conditioned out of them by season's end.

Carsen was just wired differently when he got here. He wouldn't let Paint affect his confidence and had such a high belief in himself and wouldn't let anything or anyone stop him from what he felt was his. Cline senior year benefitted from playing on a team with no low post scorer, so every shot from him was needed and he was an above average shooter who could get hot. Both guys had games that had the fan base shaking their heads in frustration with shot selection. However, both guys needed the freedom to play that way during the regular season to make their tourney run and hot streak a possibility. Take away Carsen's all time tourney run and what does Painter's post season look like since Hummel went down? It is not good. It's not that we lose or didn't get to the Final Four, it's how we are outcoached, out-game planned against by a lesser talented team and we make little to no adjustments. That's what is so difficult to swallow. It's one thing to lose to Lehigh when they had CJ McCollum (bona fide NBA talent). You can accept those. We're losing to teams we should not be losing to.

Painter is without-a-doubt the easiest coach in America to game plan against for a mid-major coach. These mid-major coaches eyes light up with dollar signs when they play Purdue in the tourney. No wonder the FDU coach can call out Purdue so confidently in video before the game, calling his shot to win it and pulling it off, like Babe Ruth pointing to centerfield. Now he has a 5 year deal with Iona.

Look, I like Painter and Purdue has had a lot of success with him at the helm. I don't think he should be fired and, if for some reason he wasn't our coach, I don't think the next guy would have nearly as much regular season success. For the most part (90% of the time), he is a great Xs and Os coach. He has cracked the code to succeed in the B1G. However, he has a huge blind spot in terms of playing a mid-major whose coach game plans to overplay what we try to do. He sticks to his guns and has no counter and walks right into the quicksand time and time again. It is schematic. He needs someone in his inner circle to tell him the hard truth otherwise he'll just dig in his heels and nothing will change. It's a shame because he is a great coach and I honestly believe he'll have tourney success just getting past these mid-major upsets. I just hope he is open minded enough to self reflect and not stubbornly dig his heels in.
Purdue fans deserve better.
 
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