The Best Recruiting Weapon

[Ben Shadeland]

I know this is stating the obvious, but I think this year could be a special year, not only because of what happens on the court, but because of what it spawns in years to come.

This has been a tough recruiting season, and though we all hate to say it, MSU has won two of the battles we'd hoped to win. We can talk a great deal about what separates the two programs (with vehement opinions about all sorts of issues), but when you boil it down, the fact is that Izzo has been around a lot longer than Painter and has experienced more success, particularly in the NCAA Tournament.

So what's the best recruiting weapon Painter can develop this year?

Success in the NCAA Tournament.

Objectively, recruiting has improved over the past few years. The roster Coach Painter put together last year was strong, and frankly, I think this year's team can be even better. But when Painter goes head-to-head with Izzo in people's living rooms, Izzo is holding the ace card. Final Fours. National Championships. I don't particularly like Izzo (for reasons several of you might guess), but there's no denying his March track record.

That could begin to change this year. If we can put it together on the floor, recruits will see that, and the one powerful negative recruiting tool others coaches wield against us (and we know that negative recruiting is a real and powerful practice) will be nullified. We have the fourth-best public university in the nation. We have marvelous facilities. There are all sorts of reasons to choose Purdue.

It's time to eliminate the one reason why other schools might outshine us in recruiting battles. It's time to kick bootie in March.

Just my two cents.

 

[Cleanface]

So you're saying we should win in March aka have success in the NCAA Tourney?!?!?!

Groundbreaking analysis.

Def new thread worthy.

Thanks.

 

[Chuchumutha]

I know this is stating the obvious, but I think this year could be a special year, not only because of what happens on the court, but because of what it spawns in years to come.

This has been a tough recruiting season, and though we all hate to say it, MSU has won two of the battles we'd hoped to win. We can talk a great deal about what separates the two programs (with vehement opinions about all sorts of issues), but when you boil it down, the fact is that Izzo has been around a lot longer than Painter and has experienced more success, particularly in the NCAA Tournament.

So what's the best recruiting weapon Painter can develop this year?

Success in the NCAA Tournament.

Objectively, recruiting has improved over the past few years. The roster Coach Painter put together last year was strong, and frankly, I think this year's team can be even better. But when Painter goes head-to-head with Izzo in people's living rooms, Izzo is holding the ace card. Final Fours. National Championships. I don't particularly like Izzo (for reasons several of you might guess), but there's no denying his March track record.

That could begin to change this year. If we can put it together on the floor, recruits will see that, and the one powerful negative recruiting tool others coaches wield against us (and we know that negative recruiting is a real and powerful practice) will be nullified. We have the fourth-best public university in the nation. We have marvelous facilities. There are all sorts of reasons to choose Purdue.

It's time to eliminate the one reason why other schools might outshine us in recruiting battles. It's time to kick bootie in March.

Just my two cents.

When things don't go as expected, we look for reasons why. It's human nature. In most cases, the simplest answer is usually the correct answer. But the simplest answer may be difficult to accept so we look elsewhere. Would more recent success in the tourney help with recruiting? Sure. But this has very little bearing on the unfortunate position we are in regarding 2017 recruiting. For example, just in our own conference, Illinois and Michigan both have top twelve recruiting classes for 2017. And there are many other teams with very limited recent tourney success that are getting it done for 2017. As far as MSU and Izzo go, yes, they almost always beat us for common recruits. But again, this is getting way over played. Over the past 3 years, Painter has offered approximately 20 prospects in this 2017 class. Of those 20, only two chose MSU. I'm way more concerned about losing guys we offered to Butler, Vanderbuilt, St. Louis, Colorado, etc. The other "straw" that people are reaching for is that we aren't getting recruits because there's just no playing time available. Do you really think (with the exception of possibly JJJ) that these kids won't face competition for PT at their respective schools? Hell, look at our last three years. Save Biggie, every one of those kids had to prove they deserved to play. On top of that Painter has proven he will play freshman if they earn it. When you are offering 2 and 3 star recruits one month before the signing date, I would think the problem is pretty obvious.

 

[TC4THREE]

Short of winning it all, what's he going to do that would give him the edge on someone like Izzo in tourney success? I don't think one Final Four run is some panacea for our recruiting ills but I'd love to put it to the test.

 

[StickPurdue]

When things don't go as expected, we look for reasons why. It's human nature. In most cases, the simplest answer is usually the correct answer. But the simplest answer may be difficult to accept so we look elsewhere. Would more recent success in the tourney help with recruiting? Sure. But this has very little bearing on the unfortunate position we are in regarding 2017 recruiting. For example, just in our own conference, Illinois and Michigan both have top twelve recruiting classes for 2017. And there are many other teams with very limited recent tourney success that are getting it done for 2017. As far as MSU and Izzo go, yes, they almost always beat us for common recruits. But again, this is getting way over played. Over the past 3 years, Painter has offered approximately 20 prospects in this 2017 class. Of those 20, only two chose MSU. I'm way more concerned about losing guys we offered to Butler, Vanderbuilt, St. Louis, Colorado, etc. The other "straw" that people are reaching for is that we aren't getting recruits because there's just no playing time available. Do you really think (with the exception of possibly JJJ) that these kids won't face competition for PT at their respective schools? Hell, look at our last three years. Save Biggie, every one of those kids had to prove they deserved to play. On top of that Painter has proven he will play freshman if they earn it. When you are offering 2 and 3 star recruits one month before the signing date, I would think the problem is pretty obvious.

I don't entirely agree. Vince, Dakota, And Haas also had pretty big minutes as freshman. Even Ryan got some decent time as a freshman. I expect Carson to get decent minutes as well.
I didn't expect Young, unfortunately because of the backlog at that position. As for all the misses at center and PF, it tells me that people aren't entirely sold Biggie is leaving. Huge minutes will likely open up, but they are completely reliant upon Biggie leaving. If biggie leaves, a freshman could walk on to a top 20 team and get practically starter minutes at Purdue and yet somehow we missed out on all of our top C/PF targets. Epperson is still out there and I am confident we will find somebody, but that is hrs to swallow as a fan. If Biggie stays another year and we have a good 2018 class, nobody will care about 2017. But if we completely strike out on top 150 players we better have a top 25 recruiting class to replace all the talent that will be leaving and that mean replacing that front court.

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

As I have said before, recruiting is 100% about sales. There is no silver bullet for sales. Some kids want playing time. Some kids want NCAA success. Some kids want a father figure. Some kids want a young, fresh coach that they can relate to. Some want a quick launch to the NCAA. The issue with CMP is that he's been around long enough now where any coach he's recuiting against can quickly plant doubts in the kid's or family's minds about his ability or willingness to provide what the kid desires. Hence, the big "No thanks."

This is my frustration. Purdue now has the basketball facilities. Wonderful fan support. World class education. Great campus. Great student life. Great location (yes, I can sell that without a problem)

We just don't have a front man that can sell.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

As I have said before, recruiting is 100% about sales. There is no silver bullet for sales. Some kids want playing time. Some kids want NCAA success. Some kids want a father figure. Some kids want a young, fresh coach that they can relate to. Some want a quick launch to the NCAA. The issue with CMP is that he's been around long enough now where any coach he's recuiting against can quickly plant doubts in the kid's or family's minds about his ability or willingness to provide what the kid desires. Hence, the big "No thanks."

This is my frustration. Purdue now has the basketball facilities. Wonderful fan support. World class education. Great campus. Great student life. Great location (yes, I can sell that without a problem)

We just don't have a front man that can sell.

If playing time is the main issue that many on here suggest, then I can't wait to see all the 4 and 5 star bigs we sign in 2018.

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

If playing time is the main issue that many on here suggest, then I can't wait to see all the 4 and 5 star bigs we sign in 2018.

Playing time does not concern 95% of the 5*s. 2018 will look like 2017.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Playing time does not concern 95% of the 5*s. 2018 will look like 2017.

No one can argue that Painter has to replace a ton of talent between the 2017 and 2018 classes. Signing 3 or 4 top 100 kids in 2018 is his only chance to not have the program fall off big time in 2018-19.

 

[NashvilleBoiler]

No one can argue that Painter has to replace a ton of talent between the 2017 and 2018 classes. Signing 3 or 4 top 100 kids in 2018 is his only chance to not have the program fall off big time in 2018-19.

That chance was 2017. That's why he went all in. And all the local talent.

 

[Ben Shadeland]

Thanks for those of you who responded like adults. An addendum/response to the thoughtful responses...

The title of the thread is "The Best Recruiting Weapon" rather than "The Only Recruiting Weapon" or the "The Silver Bullet Panacea Recruiting Weapon." I stated at the outset of the post that it sounded simplistic, and I know it is. But sustained recruiting success--not one or two good years like we've had or Illinois has had or others schools have had--must spring forth from a bedrock of winning on the floor. Every game is important, but none more so than the ones played in March.

We haven't won much in March. That hurts us. And for us to build a sustainable recruiting machine, we must first demonstrate that this is a team that thrives in March.

In recruiting, everything matters, so yes, I agree that items 2, 3, 4, 7, 12, and 22 need to be checked off as well in our recruiting efforts. But item number one is proving that we're a program that can win when it matters most.

 

[Ben Shadeland]

When things don't go as expected, we look for reasons why. It's human nature. In most cases, the simplest answer is usually the correct answer. But the simplest answer may be difficult to accept so we look elsewhere. Would more recent success in the tourney help with recruiting? Sure. But this has very little bearing on the unfortunate position we are in regarding 2017 recruiting. For example, just in our own conference, Illinois and Michigan both have top twelve recruiting classes for 2017. And there are many other teams with very limited recent tourney success that are getting it done for 2017. As far as MSU and Izzo go, yes, they almost always beat us for common recruits. But again, this is getting way over played. Over the past 3 years, Painter has offered approximately 20 prospects in this 2017 class. Of those 20, only two chose MSU. I'm way more concerned about losing guys we offered to Butler, Vanderbuilt, St. Louis, Colorado, etc. The other "straw" that people are reaching for is that we aren't getting recruits because there's just no playing time available. Do you really think (with the exception of possibly JJJ) that these kids won't face competition for PT at their respective schools? Hell, look at our last three years. Save Biggie, every one of those kids had to prove they deserved to play. On top of that Painter has proven he will play freshman if they earn it. When you are offering 2 and 3 star recruits one month before the signing date, I would think the problem is pretty obvious.

You make some good points. I focused on MSU because the JJJ decision was recent and therefore relevant. We've also gone head-to-head and lost to them in the past (except, thankfully, with Biggie), which is another reason I focused on them.

I agree that there's no silver bullet. But success in March is one heck of a bullet that Izzo gets to fire and we (so far) don't. If the recruiting battles are close (and I think they are), it's logical to look for differentiating factors. If it isn't education, playing time, or facilities, it's got to be something else. I'm guessing that the respective coaches' track records are the something else.

But I could be wrong.

 

[Ben Shadeland]

Short of winning it all, what's he going to do that would give him the edge on someone like Izzo in tourney success? I don't think one Final Four run is some panacea for our recruiting ills but I'd love to put it to the test.

I'm not saying it's a cure-all. I'm saying it's an important step. You can't win multiple national championships until you demonstrate an ability to make it to the Sweet Sixteen.

I think this team has the ability to do great things, and in doing so, begin to undo the program's biggest shortcoming/deficit.

 

[Ben Shadeland]

One other thing. As a former coach, I've had some conversations with Coach Painter and talked basketball with Coach Painter. In person, he exudes enthusiasm, knowledge, and energy. In other words, I don't think his personality is hindering his "salesmanship."

I think it's one aspect of what he's selling that needs to improve.

As I said above, I think that aspect is going to improve this year. This will be the start of something special on and off the court. At least, I believe it will be.

 

[hoosierdog1]

Hookers

 

[BoilerDeac]

It's about the coach and staff, plain and simple. Buzz Williams has a top 20 class at VA TECH.

 

[Ben Shadeland]

It's about the coach and staff, plain and simple. Buzz Williams has a top 20 class at VA TECH.

Which means Buzz had a great recruiting year. Good for him. Painter has had top twenty classes as well. I'm talking about building sustained success (like MSU, Kansas, etc.) and the best way to go about that.

Hopefully this roster, which I believe is a top ten roster, will help us begin to produce the results necessary to prove to recruits that we're going to be a serious player on the national scene rather than a solid program always on the periphery of major success.