Can you give us just one reason why we should support this staff?
I ask that sincerely but expect to hear only crickets.
I ask that sincerely but expect to hear only crickets.
So for the few holding out hope
- Thread starter BBG
- Start date
Never hire an OSU assistant ever aagin. Never hire from a power school.
But Burke needs to resign. Or be reassigned to another dept. Hey can we just reassign Hazell to maintenance? Yeah 2 million is high but he may quit.
But Burke needs to resign. Or be reassigned to another dept. Hey can we just reassign Hazell to maintenance? Yeah 2 million is high but he may quit.
Hazell never taught more than the WR/KR positions at Ohio State. It's not like he was an offensive coordinator or defensive coordinator there.
Also, we didn't hire him from Ohio State. If you're eliminating anyone who's ever coached at a big school (even as a position coach), you're eliminating a lot of coaches.
Somehow I think the mowers would suddenly end up in reverse or "cough" up all the grass clippings.
My take is unless you're one of the blue bloods, which Purdue is not, changing coaches every 3 years hoping to catch lightning in a bottle doesn't seem to be the way to build a program. I think you have to let your coach have some time to build relationships with high school coaches, etc. Hazell seems to be well spoken so I would expect he would be able to make some inroads and get better talent.
Then after 6 years or so you reevaluate, and if you make a change at least the incoming coach would have some talent to work with, ala Tiller.
Then after 6 years or so you reevaluate, and if you make a change at least the incoming coach would have some talent to work with, ala Tiller.
This is actually a very good point. Of course, I expect the usual suspects to trash you for it.
Honestly I don't think Shoop and Hudson are as stupid as they seem. Hudson's plan of becoming a total and utter bend bend bend but don't break defense actually makes sense with the personnel they have on the back end. The safeties we have are terrible and should not be trusted thus just put everything underneath and try to pack it in when the opponent gets inside the 20. I thought there was a bit too much of that with BG but the plan wasn't necessarily bad just too much of it later in the 2nd half.
With Shoop, it looks like he finally has a quarterback that A) hasn't been mentally shot by a horrific O-line (not Shoop's fault) B) a quarterback with some athletic scrambling ability to make up for the often bad pass protect C) a QB who can put some touch on the sideline passes to keep the defense honest.
For people who were pissed about the "horizontal" pass game, that was a direct result of the guy behind center and his abilities.
So in other words, I support the staff still yes and those are the reasons above. Do the players need more penalty discipline and stop the turnovers? Hell yes but at the end of the day thats on the players as much as the coaches. Hold on to the damn ball and keep the hands away from the face and this team can do something.
With Shoop, it looks like he finally has a quarterback that A) hasn't been mentally shot by a horrific O-line (not Shoop's fault) B) a quarterback with some athletic scrambling ability to make up for the often bad pass protect C) a QB who can put some touch on the sideline passes to keep the defense honest.
For people who were pissed about the "horizontal" pass game, that was a direct result of the guy behind center and his abilities.
So in other words, I support the staff still yes and those are the reasons above. Do the players need more penalty discipline and stop the turnovers? Hell yes but at the end of the day thats on the players as much as the coaches. Hold on to the damn ball and keep the hands away from the face and this team can do something.
Hey they wouldn't have ten wins total by year 6. No way do you keep a guy with only 2 wins against FBS teams after three years. Unless you just don't care about sports.
OK...let me translate this for everyone:
"...hoping to catch lightning in a bottle"
Maybe we can win 4 games a year
"I think you have to let your coach have some time to build relationships with high school coaches"
High School Coaches tell there 2* players "you can go to a MAC school or play for Purdue..hazell takes just about anybody...he's desperate..but hey, it's a free education.
"Hazell seems to be well spoken"
A nice way to say he's a BS'er that good players don't believe
"I would expect he would be able to make some inroads and get better talent"
He can't recruit againsts P5 teams, so he tries to get MAC "diamonds in the rough"
"Then after 6 years or so you reevaluate"
hazell walks away after 6 years in disbelieve that he wasn't fired 4 years earlier
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Here's the problem. There's a variety of things you can look at to see progress in a program.
Some examples:
-You take over a program for a previous 'era' that was not considered successful and saw a coach fired. You may go through some growing pains, but you get rid of people that aren't there to make the team better, you instill standards, etc. I wouldn't say that Hazell really came in and did this as much as he should. Quite frankly, it didn't feel like much changed through the transition. That's great if you're transitioning from a successful era, but we weren't.
-You come and instill systems that are successful for the players you have. Purdue has failed with this under Hazell. We have tried to force systems on players that don't fit the systems (see our WIDE variety of QBs). And the offensive system, as quoted by our coach, takes 3 years for a player to really understand. That's not setting anyone up for success for multiple reasons. 1) College players can play for 4 years. 2) When you have a team that's biggest weakness is depth, if it is so complex to learn, it's going to be problematic (and it has).
-You establish yourself in recruiting. People can get over a bad season if they're excited for the future. Not only have we not established a real strategy for recruiting (it seems to just be whatever we can get - ala "State of Purdue"?), we haven't seen any improvement in recruiting. We're operating in slow motion if so.
The list can go on and on.
The thing is, 3 years is basically the standard for coaches. It is not just for the "Notre Dames, Ohio States, etc". And again, it's not like the argument is oh, we're on year 3 and we aren't in the Rose Bowl. We're not even SNIFFING a bowl game - which is a .500 season.
You cannot possibly look someone in the eye and say this program has made any significant progress in any facet, on the field or off, to date over the last 2.5 years. THAT is the problem.
If you can't see progress since Hazell's first year where he inherited Hope's dumpster fire, that's on you.
I just don't think it helps anything to throw in the towel now. When the season is over it will be time to make a decision. If Purdue finishes 1-11 or 2-10, the staff is probably gone. If Purdue wins 3 games down the stretch and shows real progress, I think you take a closer look and probably bring Hazell back. Purdue is better this year than last, IMO, which gives me some hope for the future.
but the dumpster fire was at least at .500 whereas now we cannot compete in the MAC.
Yes three wins over D1 teams in three years - and it's us that can't see the progess.
Wow
Correct my bad - careful we'll be accused of being negative!
I am not going to take the time to explain what Hazell inherited compared to what Hope inherited because if you haven't figured that out by now, well you know....
Yeah we got it - you're the smartest guy in the room and we're all dopes for thinking that 2 D1 wins in the last 3 seasons is progress. Keep blaming previous regimes for all your failures - that's the in thing these days. And if you haven't figured that one out by now, well, you know...
Enjoy Coach Nike Vest and the middling recruiting. I'm done with this one.
This is a load of BS.
Tiller's last three recruiting classes:
2006: Average star - 2.3
2007: Average star - 2.68
2008: Average star - 2.38
Hope's recruiting classes:
2009: Average star - 2.5
2010: Average star - 2.63
2011: Average star - 2.73
2012: Average star - 3
Hazell's recruiting classes:
2013: Average star - 2.74
2014: Average star - 2.53
2015: Average star - 2.46
So....
-Hazell inherited a worse situation than Hope did? False. They were equally bad (if anything, Hope had less talent as Hope's last recruiting class was actually decent).
-Hope at least showed slight improvement recruiting. Still not good enough though.
-Hazell's best class was the one he was in charge for 2 months on.
-Hazell's recruiting is not better than Hope's. And Hope went to a bowl game in his 3rd year and 4th years with equally crappy talent.
Name one 3+ star Hope recruited that accomplished anything. And his last class was a mirage.
Oh my goodness. Hope's recruiting was sub-par. Hazell's recruiting is sub-par. What the hell are you arguing?
You hit the nail on the head.I don't know whats wrong with Wisconsin.Northwestern and Iowa look like the two best in the West right now.I cant believe Illinois rallied to scalp Nebraska on a TD pass to Geronimo Allison .Purdue ,despite their 1 and 4 record,dont look a whole lot worse than the rest of the West at the moment.With Minnesota getting blanked today,I think they have only scored eight TDS on the year.If Purdue doesn't win next week,I absolutely give up on this staff.
LOL, 6 years?
What do you think attendance will look like at Ross-Ade by year 6 of the Hazell administration?
Yes and no. Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Iowa all have killer defenses. You won't have much chance in those. Wisconsin is giving up 3.25 points per game in 4 home games this year, and have lost like 8 home games in the last 11.5 seasons. Good luck with that one. Northwestern leads the country with 7 points per game allowed overall. Iowa is the best overall team in the division (only one that's good on both sides of the ball).
Nebraska's coach is probably getting death threats right now. He might, literally, be coaching for his life against Purdue. Illinois looks like they're having fun and playing loose. Minnesota you might have a chance against.
I see one, maybe two more wins.
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I wouldn't say never hire from a power program. I'd just want to get a coach who is doing well at a power program by being aggressive and makes it known early that he DEFINITELY knows that he needs to be even more aggressive in West Lafayette. I can live with going down swinging here... for many reasons.
I'm curious when I said he did? I posted the average stars per class for our last 10 recruiting classes. We hit "3" once. And using basic averages, our team has been about 50% 2 star since Tiller's last few years.
Thus, NOBODY inherited a good situation. And NOBODY did crap to improve it.
I hope he and other hazell fans aren't acting like... If you criticize hazell you think hope is bear Bryant.
Hope was mediocre at best, but those who hated him enough to defend any newcomer because "he's not that miserable hope"... Need to realize that that's not still a thing in year 3.
Do you think the talent level is better, worse, or the same today versus Hazell's first team? I think better which would by definition be improving.
I understand the pessimism from most but I agree with most of what Bulldog has been saying. My big issue is that starting over will just dig us in a deeper hole. Stay with Hazell thru the length of his contract and give it time.
I actually think the talent is worse and it sure as heck is not getting better. Our "experienced" OL is terrible, Our defensive backfield is terrible. Safeties have to play 20 yds back not to get beat and they still get beat. Can't tackle to save their lives. No receiver who can go up and make a play when it counts. FG kicker has the shanks. We have one running back who looks to have potential. An overall mess that will always find a way to lose. Thankfully the Big west sucks which might allow a 3 win season. Yippeee!
There was plenty of talent on the roster when DHaze got here. Some of them played today.
People tend to overlook the fact that some of Hope's recruits didn't fit the scheme of the new regime. It takes time, more than three years, to develop your own recruits and to attain stability. Look no further than Bloomington to see it starting to pay off.
