season predictions- who we beat?

[TOKenBoiler]

The head coach is responsible. Where did I say he wasn't? But he's not the primary recruiter.

I'm not making excuses. I'm saying we have average talent in most aspects of the field, particularly in 1 deeps. Do you not agree with that? It's a team that should win 4-6 games on a soft schedule with proper coaching and schemes. You somehow see one game. I think Shoop being gone is worth 2-3 games by itself.

FWIW - I think 4 or less and DH is gone.

Maybe I misunderstood. But, you wrote that if Purdue only wins 1 game this year that's a talent issue not a coaching issue. Seems like you're attempting to absolve the coaching staff of any responsibility for the talent on the field.

Now, as for the head coach not being the primary recruiter...well, he hired the assistants. If they can't evaluate talent or get talent, that's on the head coach. And, if the head coach can't upgrade the talent to avoid playing low talent players from the previous regime, that's on the head coach, too.

So, the results on Saturday are on the head coach. There's no place to shift the blame.

Again, if that's not what you're trying to do, I misunderstood you.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I think the jury is out on Els but we know Melvin is a huge upgrade. And frankly there's no way Malone is worse.

I never said our roster was better. I simply went position group by position group and saw what I consider at least average talent at most positions at the 1 deep. Do you agree or not? I think a coach should be expected to win 5-6 games with average talent and an easy schedule at minimum. So that's my expectation. I'm not sure how much clearer I can lay it out.

Average talent compared to the B1G teams that we play 9 of our 12 games against? Yeah.... I'm going to have to go ahead and uh... disagree with you on that one.

 

[TOKenBoiler]

Purdue has nowhere but to go up in my opinion.

I don't think anyone is going to argue with that.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I tend to agree. Purdue has nowhere but to go up in my opinion. The schedule has very winnable games. And teams can overlook Purdue. That is how upsets occur. Look at what happened with Nebraska last year.

One thing is certain. It is do or die for the coaching staff. They should not be thinking of the 2017 season now. Don't redshirt anyone. Let it all hang out now and take chances. Because a 4-win season may not save Hazel especially if a good coach becomes available in November.

Disagree on how we beat Nebraska. We won because they trotted out a walk-on at QB - and STILL hung 40+ on us.

 

[TOKenBoiler]

dream until your dreams come true

There are some crazy-assed optimists among Purdue's fan base...and where that optimism comes from...I have no idea.

 

[nat100]

The head coach is responsible. Where did I say he wasn't? But he's not the primary recruiter.

I'm not making excuses. I'm saying we have average talent in most aspects of the field, particularly in 1 deeps. Do you not agree with that? It's a team that should win 4-6 games on a soft schedule with proper coaching and schemes. You somehow see one game. I think Shoop being gone is worth 2-3 games by itself.

FWIW - I think 4 or less and DH is gone.

Barring a miracle, he gone.

 

[OhioBoiler3]

Give us this schedule 10-14 years ago and I'm saying undefeated chance at a BCS game. Sucks to think we are now barely seeing 4-5 wins because our schedule truly is awful. No reason a relatively good team couldn't start 5-0. Miss the days where I thought we would win week in and week out.

 

[Summy1]

Hope was 6-7 in his last season and that was not enough for him to keep his job. It will take a miracle for Hazell.

 

[SunnyFL24]

I tend to agree. Purdue has nowhere but to go up in my opinion. The schedule has very winnable games. And teams can overlook Purdue. That is how upsets occur. Look at what happened with Nebraska last year.

One thing is certain. It is do or die for the coaching staff. They should not be thinking of the 2017 season now. Don't redshirt anyone. Let it all hang out now and take chances. Because a 4-win season may not save Hazel especially if a good coach becomes available in November.

I tend to agree, most teams will look past us. We could go 4-0 heading into conf play. Cincinnati is not a world beater by any means. Their "D" gave up a ton of points. Still think we can win 2 conf games. Starts with the "O" line...........If we have some decent time to throw, I think we will be all right on offense. I just want to see us play competitive with the big boys.........gettin' butterfly's.........always love when college football starts!

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Maybe I misunderstood. But, you wrote that if Purdue only wins 1 game this year that's a talent issue not a coaching issue. Seems like you're attempting to absolve the coaching staff of any responsibility for the talent on the field.

Now, as for the head coach not being the primary recruiter...well, he hired the assistants. If they can't evaluate talent or get talent, that's on the head coach. And, if the head coach can't upgrade the talent to avoid playing low talent players from the previous regime, that's on the head coach, too.

So, the results on Saturday are on the head coach. There's no place to shift the blame.

Again, if that's not what you're trying to do, I misunderstood you.

I'm saying this team IMO is more talented than a 1 win or even 4 win team. And if that's all we win, fire everybody.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Average talent compared to the B1G teams that we play 9 of our 12 games against? Yeah.... I'm going to have to go ahead and uh... disagree with you on that one.

Average meaning comparable to the worse 3-4 B1G teams we play, absolutely. That would put us at a fighting chance from a talent perspective in 7-8 games this year. Which means the primary difference maker would be coaching (with things like home field, injuries, weather, etc. all obviously contributing as well). I believe if the coaching staff doesn't win 5-6 of those 7-8 games, they should be fired. But I think we have a legitimate shot to win and I look forward to this season like I do every season. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[atkinsbj]

There isn't a game on our schedule that I look at and say it's a definite loss. I actually think it's more of a stretch to say we will only win 2 games than it is to say we will win 7.

Wow. Seriously delusional. How can you guys have watched the last 3 years and say that we have a chance to win 5, 6, 7, or 8 games. I have even seen 9 games this season. There is not a game on the schedule that I would say is a definite win. Not even EKU. It is shameful how far this program has fallen since I was on campus. With the schedule being so weak I hope some of you guys finally realize just how bad it really is.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I tend to agree. Purdue has nowhere but to go up in my opinion. The schedule has very winnable games. And teams can overlook Purdue. That is how upsets occur. Look at what happened with Nebraska last year.

One thing is certain. It is do or die for the coaching staff. They should not be thinking of the 2017 season now. Don't redshirt anyone. Let it all hang out now and take chances. Because a 4-win season may not save Hazel especially if a good coach becomes available in November.

We beat Nebraska last year because they were literally playing with their entire 2nd team offense. Backup QB, backup RB, and lost their #1 WR early in the game. It does't hurt that Nebraska turned the ball over 5 or 6 times that game. I think their QB had 4 INT's alone. Not to take anything away because it was the first time Purdue had taken advantage of another team's mistakes during Hazell's run, but it wasn't like Nebraska overlooked us and we came out with our hair on fire...most of the time the team who turns the ball over less, wins.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Wow. Seriously delusional. How can you guys have watched the last 3 years and say that we have a chance to win 5, 6, 7, or 8 games. I have even seen 9 games this season. There is not a game on the schedule that I would say is a definite win. Not even EKU. It is shameful how far this program has fallen since I was on campus. With the schedule being so weak I hope some of you guys finally realize just how bad it really is.

Well if we lose to EKU you're welcome to come back and bask in your glory and tell us how wrong we were. I'm sure you'll be ecstatic.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Average meaning comparable to the worse 3-4 B1G teams we play, absolutely. That would put us at a fighting chance from a talent perspective in 7-8 games this year. Which means the primary difference maker would be coaching (with things like home field, injuries, weather, etc. all obviously contributing as well). I believe if the coaching staff doesn't win 5-6 of those 7-8 games, they should be fired. But I think we have a legitimate shot to win and I look forward to this season like I do every season. We'll find out soon enough.

Can you name these 7-8 teams we have comparable talent to? I see 4, maybe 5, if I'm being generous. Cincy is going to freaking destroy us, so I don't put them in that category.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Can you name these 7-8 teams we have comparable talent to? I see 4, maybe 5, if I'm being generous. Cincy is going to freaking destroy us, so I don't put them in that category.

Cincinnati for one.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Cincinnati for one.

The three OOC teams, ILL, MD, MN, IU.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

The three OOC teams, ILL, MD, MN, IU.

I don't think we are comparable to IU at all in terms of talent...at least not from position to position. Sorry to say, but their offensive line and WR's blow ours out of the water. Hell, their Oline might be the best in the B1G and top 10-15 nationally overall. BTW, the kid from Central Catholic that went to IU has a chance to start on that oline at left tackle or at least play as a freshman. That is probably Hazell's biggest swing and miss in recruiting at this point IMHO. Defensively, I would say it is somewhat even but they did hang with OSU and Michigan last season and have had improved recruiting over the last 3 years. The only position I would say is even or better at Purdue versus IU would be RB, QB, and LB's. Outside of that, I would say IU is either slightly better or much better than Purdue. That's just my honest opinion and me trying to look at things outside my black and gold colored glasses. If IU was in the West, I would put them as my favorite this season to get to the conference championship game. IU playing in the west, they go 6-3 IMO. There isn't a team in the West that I don't think IU wouldn't hang 35-40 on.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

I don't think we are comparable to IU at all in terms of talent...at least not from position to position. Sorry to say, but their offensive line and WR's blow ours out of the water. Hell, their Oline might be the best in the B1G and top 10-15 nationally overall. BTW, the kid from Central Catholic that went to IU has a chance to start on that oline at left tackle or at least play as a freshman. That is probably Hazell's biggest swing and miss in recruiting at this point IMHO. Defensively, I would say it is somewhat even but they did hang with OSU and Michigan last season and have had improved recruiting over the last 3 years. The only position I would say is even or better at Purdue versus IU would be RB, QB, and LB's. Outside of that, I would say IU is either slightly better or much better than Purdue. That's just my honest opinion and me trying to look at things outside my black and gold colored glasses. If IU was in the West, I would put them as my favorite this season to get to the conference championship game. IU playing in the west, they go 6-3 IMO. There isn't a team in the West that I don't think IU wouldn't hang 35-40 on.

IU isn't that great. They're picked to win three conference games with a shot at four. Most pundits have them not making a bowl this season, and with Wilson still there, I have to agree.

 

[RBB89]

IU isn't that great. They're picked to win three conference games with a shot at four. Most pundits have them not making a bowl this season, and with Wilson still there, I have to agree.

Most? You just make things up for the heck of it don't you?

IU is hardly "great", but they are pretty consistently expected to get back to 6 wins.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

IU isn't that great. They're picked to win three conference games with a shot at four. Most pundits have them not making a bowl this season, and with Wilson still there, I have to agree.

Like I said in my post, put them in the West and suddenly they become a clear contender. You can't tell me they wouldn't be favored against Northwestern, Illinois, Minnesota, and Purdue. That is 4 conference wins right there alone. Throw in toss up games against Iowa, Nebraska, and Wisconsin...and they clearly would have a shot at 9 to 10 wins this season...if they were in the West. In the East, they have to play the top 3 teams in the conference every single year (Michigan, OSU, and MSU).

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I don't think we are comparable to IU at all in terms of talent...at least not from position to position. Sorry to say, but their offensive line and WR's blow ours out of the water. Hell, their Oline might be the best in the B1G and top 10-15 nationally overall. BTW, the kid from Central Catholic that went to IU has a chance to start on that oline at left tackle or at least play as a freshman. That is probably Hazell's biggest swing and miss in recruiting at this point IMHO. Defensively, I would say it is somewhat even but they did hang with OSU and Michigan last season and have had improved recruiting over the last 3 years. The only position I would say is even or better at Purdue versus IU would be RB, QB, and LB's. Outside of that, I would say IU is either slightly better or much better than Purdue. That's just my honest opinion and me trying to look at things outside my black and gold colored glasses. If IU was in the West, I would put them as my favorite this season to get to the conference championship game. IU playing in the west, they go 6-3 IMO. There isn't a team in the West that I don't think IU wouldn't hang 35-40 on.

Our DL is better as well. So again, they might be marginally better on paper. There's no reason why can't beat a team like that. Just because a school has recruits that average 0.2-0.4 stars more than ours does not mean we automatically lose. Again, it will come down to coaching.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Most? You just make things up for the heck of it don't you?

IU is hardly "great", but they are pretty consistently expected to get back to 6 wins.

Really????? Check this one out for more info.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...inish/&usg=AFQjCNEsziOnZWmHQ97c9NpvO5JLH3urNw

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Really????? Check this one out for more info.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwje9tG489zOAhVmGsAKHaRTBawQqQIIHzAB&url=http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2016-big-ten-expert-picks-overrated-underrated-predicted-order-of-finish/&usg=AFQjCNEsziOnZWmHQ97c9NpvO5JLH3urNw

And:

Big Ten East Division Predictions
2016 Indiana Hoosiers
2016 Prediction: 6-6
2016 Big Ten Prediction: 3-6
Sept. 1 at FIU WIN
Sept. 10 Ball State WIN
Sept. 17 OPEN DATE
Sept. 24 Wake Forest WIN
Oct. 1 Michigan State Loss
Oct. 8 at Ohio State Loss
Oct. 15 Nebraska Loss
Oct. 22 at Northwestern Loss
Oct. 29 Maryland Loss
Nov. 5 at Rutgers WIN
Nov. 12 Penn State WIN
Nov. 19 at Michigan Loss
Nov. 26 Purdue WIN

I seriously doubt they have the ability to beat a good Penn State, and at Rutgers won't be a cake walk. My guess is they win four overall.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

The three OOC teams, ILL, MD, MN, IU.

Completely disagree. 3 of those teams crushed us last year. IU will beat us even worse this year. Cinci will beat us by at least 2 touchdowns.

Anyone with a passing game will throw for 400 yards and 6 TDs on us. We have no pass rush and no corners.

Our O could average 30 a game... But that won't be enough.

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Our DL is better as well. So again, they might be marginally better on paper. There's no reason why can't beat a team like that. Just because a school has recruits that average 0.2-0.4 stars more than ours does not mean we automatically lose. Again, it will come down to coaching.

Weren't we last in the conference in rush defense last year?

 

[FirstDownB]

Been watching this thread and I'd just like to interject that it seems people are using recruited talent (paper rankings) and on-field talent interchangeably, which neglects the impact of player development. Player development in football typically takes years, so any impact of the new coordinators in 2016 is mostly going to be seen on the coaching side of the equation - scheme, game planning, and play calling. Unfortunately with new coaches only months on the job that's probably only worth about 1 win tops.

IMO under DH2, Purdue has on average..
-RECRUITED decently enough to win 6 games
-DEVELOPED poorly to have on-field talent to win 4 of those 6 games
-COACHED poorly to win only 2 of those 4 games

 

[TOKenBoiler]

Completely disagree. 3 of those teams crushed us last year. IU will beat us even worse this year. Cinci will beat us by at least 2 touchdowns.

Anyone with a passing game will throw for 400 yards and 6 TDs on us. We have no pass rush and no corners.

Our O could average 30 a game... But that won't be enough.

Wow...people arguing about who will, and how badly they will, beat Purdue. Gotta love football season in West Laffy.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

how about we wait and see what happens the first few games, talk means nothing

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Been watching this thread and I'd just like to interject that it seems people are using recruited talent (paper rankings) and on-field talent interchangeably, which neglects the impact of player development. Player development in football typically takes years, so any impact of the new coordinators in 2016 is mostly going to be seen on the coaching side of the equation - scheme, game planning, and play calling. Unfortunately with new coaches only months on the job that's probably only worth about 1 win tops.

IMO under DH2, Purdue has on average..
-RECRUITED decently enough to win 6 games
-DEVELOPED poorly to have on-field talent to win 4 of those 6 games
-COACHED poorly to win only 2 of those 4 games

I agree with this completely. That's why if don't win at least 5-6 games, it's on the coaches. I think it's possible if the OC/DC hires pay off.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Been watching this thread and I'd just like to interject that it seems people are using recruited talent (paper rankings) and on-field talent interchangeably, which neglects the impact of player development. Player development in football typically takes years, so any impact of the new coordinators in 2016 is mostly going to be seen on the coaching side of the equation - scheme, game planning, and play calling. Unfortunately with new coaches only months on the job that's probably only worth about 1 win tops.

IMO under DH2, Purdue has on average..
-RECRUITED decently enough to win 6 games
-DEVELOPED poorly to have on-field talent to win 4 of those 6 games
-COACHED poorly to win only 2 of those 4 games

You realize all of Hazells classes have failed to be ranked in the top 10 of the B1G?

 

[FirstDownB]

You realize all of Hazells classes have failed to be ranked in the top 10 of the B1G?

So have Fitz's classes at Northwestern until 2016 (#9).
I'm not trying to say DH2 has done a good job recruiting, just that the talent signed has more potential than the product we see on the field on Saturdays. That isn't saying much. And most of of the lower B1G teams aren't recruiting much better. The evidence strongly suggests the differentiator is how the potential talent is developed and put to use. We've been missing in all phases under DH2. Best case for 2016 is we've gotten slightly better in the third phase.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

You realize all of Hazells classes have failed to be ranked in the top 10 of the B1G?

Wisconsin classes barely break it too.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

So have Fitz's classes at Northwestern until 2016 (#9).
I'm not trying to say DH2 has done a good job recruiting, just that the talent signed has more potential than the product we see on the field on Saturdays. That isn't saying much. And most of of the lower B1G teams aren't recruiting much better. The evidence strongly suggests the differentiator is how the potential talent is developed and put to use. We've been missing in all phases under DH2. Best case for 2016 is we've gotten slightly better in the third phase.

I hope you're right. But after watching Ilinois, Minny and IU handle us on our home field like they did, they all looked decidedly more talented to me.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Wisconsin classes barely break it too.

Wisconsin's last 2 classes were ranked 5th and 6th, whereas ours were 13th and 14th.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Wisconsin's last 2 classes were ranked 5th and 6th, whereas ours were 13th and 14th.

Um so? Where did I say the last two years? Go back three years and they're 8th and we're 10th. The fact is Wisconsin has greatly outperformed their recruiting rankings historically since Alvarez showed up. Because I'll let you in on a little secret, sometimes a team beats another team even though they had a 0.3 average ranking higher in stars than the other team. Here's another shocker for you - be sure you're sitting down - sometimes teams beat a team that beat them the year before. I'll need to do some research but I bet it's at least once or twice a year. And finally, to completely blow your mind, sometimes teams overhaul their coaching staff and the team greatly outperforms their past performance. I know, crazy right?

So, because I'm generally a half glass full guy with a better than decent head on my shoulders, I'm going to head into this season with cautious optimism and believe we might actually win 6 games. And if we don't, I will be first in line to call for everyone to be fired. The difference between you and me is that I hope we actually have a good season. I hate losing. I want these players to be rewarded for sticking out a couple of terrible years. And I believe the new coaches might just do that. They better if they want a year 2.

I'm sure if we lose to Cincy you'll take a break from starting "Fire Painter" threads on the BB board and come back over here and revel in our misery. God bless ya'.

 

[FirstDownB]

I hope you're right. But after watching Ilinois, Minny and IU handle us on our home field like they did, they all looked decidedly more talented to me.

In the end we are splitting hairs. Neither the players nor the coaches have been good enough to win games. Period. Perhaps this fall we will get a glimpse of some previously untapped potential. I know which ones I'll have my eyes on.

 

[Summy1]

Please don't try to compare Purdue to Wisconsin. They aren't even close to being as bad as we are. Most of us would be very happy to have a season or recruiting class like theirs.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Um so? Where did I say the last two years? Go back three years and they're 8th and we're 10th. The fact is Wisconsin has greatly outperformed their recruiting rankings historically since Alvarez showed up. Because I'll let you in on a little secret, sometimes a team beats another team even though they had a 0.3 average ranking higher in stars than the other team. Here's another shocker for you - be sure you're sitting down - sometimes teams beat a team that beat them the year before. I'll need to do some research but I bet it's at least once or twice a year. And finally, to completely blow your mind, sometimes teams overhaul their coaching staff and the team greatly outperforms their past performance. I know, crazy right?

So, because I'm generally a half glass full guy with a better than decent head on my shoulders, I'm going to head into this season with cautious optimism and believe we might actually win 6 games. And if we don't, I will be first in line to call for everyone to be fired. The difference between you and me is that I hope we actually have a good season. I hate losing. I want these players to be rewarded for sticking out a couple of terrible years. And I believe the new coaches might just do that. They better if they want a year 2.

I'm sure if we lose to Cincy you'll take a break from starting "Fire Painter" threads on the BB board and come back over here and revel in our misery. God bless ya'.

You said they barely break the top 10, and you were wrong. No need to get bent out of shape over it.

And I haven't started a single fire painter thread - nice try though. The extension was necessary at this point, though I do think the next 3 years need to be better than the last 3 to get another extension in 2019.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

In the end we are splitting hairs. Neither the players nor the coaches have been good enough to win games. Period. Perhaps this fall we will get a glimpse of some previously untapped potential. I know which ones I'll have my eyes on.

We have some good players, no doubt. I just don't think we have near enough of them to succeed in the B1G. But I would honestly love to be wrong! It would make the new coaches job easier.