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Scrimmage against ISU thoughts:

I never said teaching was easy. I asked what teachers raises should be based on. I don't believe there is a clear cut answer.
There is no clear cut answer because there are a thousand variables in every classroom. Between my wife and I, we've had students who went from all As to all Fs the year their parents got divorced, who went from a highly studious student to one who would not do any homework after her older sister committed suicide. A student who went from doing well on most work to actually making WRONG answers when he knew the right anwers - in order to get attention when he lost his Mom to jail and went into the foster system. And many students who can get every problem right when drilled, but who have test anxiety and do terrible on tests. All of these are situations common to teachers. They are also situations that should not be used to determine the quality of their teaching. In Indiana, just keeping a teacher at times is dificult. We have the 48th poorest retention rate because we have the 48th lowest ranked system and we pay a new, excited, ready to rock teacher $34k - and cap their potential at 40K. If you are intelligent, you can get a job that pays better with a bachelors. So, we are left with a group of people who spend more awake hours with a child than anyone else in that child's life, thus having a huge influence on their development, thus shaping the future of the country as much as they can, being paid a non-competitive salary. There are many schools close to Lafayette who have non-certified teachers in classrooms because they have NO applications for the open teaching position. --- THEN that teacher must spend weeks and weeks every year teaching their students how to do well on the standardized test so the school can get a little extra money and the teacher may get a $500 bonus. SO ... students, PLEASE don't be creative, please don't think for yourself, please don't do anything but regurgitate the answers I'm going to spend weeks training you to answer with ... because that is what non-teachers think I should be evaluated on.
 
I may be old fashion, but IMO there are 3 basic things wrong with the school system today:

1. They took God out of the classroom. Kids today think they are a god and they are entitled to what THEY want. They can disrespect the teacher and do their thing and if the teacher objects the parents and administration sides with the kid.

2. The Government set it up so low income gets more benefits from being a single parent. Also note how the divorce rate has climbed. The biggest thread in common in prison is young men from single family homes. Kids need a disciplinarian at home to teach respect of God, family and school.

3. Schools started teaching to the lowest common denominator. When I grew up in NY, we had a HS degree and a Regents Degree. You aspired for the Regents and the smart kids remained engaged. If you couldn't cut it you get a HS degree and learn the basics. A great fall back was technical schools. I was never good making things, but we had kids in shop and auto repair. Good grades are important, but being the best carpenter or grease monkey has just as much prestige to me.

Actually this is a big reason I boycott the NFL. We need to return pride to our flag and our anthem.
 
I may be old fashion, but IMO there are 3 basic things wrong with the school system today:

1. They took God out of the classroom. Kids today think they are a god and they are entitled to what THEY want. They can disrespect the teacher and do their thing and if the teacher objects the parents and administration sides with the kid.

2. The Government set it up so low income gets more benefits from being a single parent. Also note how the divorce rate has climbed. The biggest thread in common in prison is young men from single family homes. Kids need a disciplinarian at home to teach respect of God, family and school.

3. Schools started teaching to the lowest common denominator. When I grew up in NY, we had a HS degree and a Regents Degree. You aspired for the Regents and the smart kids remained engaged. If you couldn't cut it you get a HS degree and learn the basics. A great fall back was technical schools. I was never good making things, but we had kids in shop and auto repair. Good grades are important, but being the best carpenter or grease monkey has just as much prestige to me.

Actually this is a big reason I boycott the NFL. We need to return pride to our flag and our anthem.
I know I shouldn’t but...you really want someone you hardly know to teach your kid about God? Seems that is something I would want to assure was taught myself. I also don’t want to open that Pandora’s box to every nut who chooses their beliefs somehow equal a religion.

Teachers need the help of the parents obviously, but you can’t legislate it in the form of forced conformity to what you consider “right”. That’s about as un-American as I can imagine some folks feel kneeling during the anthem appears.
 
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I would disagree with CMP on that then....When is the last time anyone shot 50% for Purdue from 3??.... I imagine over history there haven't been too many VOLUME shooters in the whole NCAA that have been 50% shooters from 3. I think Bennett shot 49.7 but that is as high as I know of.
1997 Jaraan Cornell
 
I know I shouldn’t but...you really want someone you hardly know to teach your kid about God? Seems that is something I would want to assure was taught myself. I also don’t want to open that Pandora’s box to every nut who chooses their beliefs somehow equal a religion.
Teachers need the help of the parents obviously, but you can’t legislate it in the form of forced conformity to what you consider “right”. That’s about as un-American as I can imagine some folks feel kneeling during the anthem appears.

There are two answers here:

1. Saying under God when doing the pledge and giving children time to say a prayer to their God. Also consider a generic prayer where the teacher says that we need to pray to a higher power for our country, state, community and school.

2. Teaching the Bible as a History Book. If someone is Hindu, they still need to understand what is in the Bible. Here is where you as a parent may object, because a teacher could put his/her spin on it. However, teachers already put their spin on everything anyways. This is why you need to be in your child's life to discuss things like was Nixon a good or bad President overall.
 
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There is no clear cut answer because there are a thousand variables in every classroom. Between my wife and I, we've had students who went from all As to all Fs the year their parents got divorced, who went from a highly studious student to one who would not do any homework after her older sister committed suicide. A student who went from doing well on most work to actually making WRONG answers when he knew the right anwers - in order to get attention when he lost his Mom to jail and went into the foster system. And many students who can get every problem right when drilled, but who have test anxiety and do terrible on tests. All of these are situations common to teachers. They are also situations that should not be used to determine the quality of their teaching. In Indiana, just keeping a teacher at times is dificult. We have the 48th poorest retention rate because we have the 48th lowest ranked system and we pay a new, excited, ready to rock teacher $34k - and cap their potential at 40K. If you are intelligent, you can get a job that pays better with a bachelors. So, we are left with a group of people who spend more awake hours with a child than anyone else in that child's life, thus having a huge influence on their development, thus shaping the future of the country as much as they can, being paid a non-competitive salary. There are many schools close to Lafayette who have non-certified teachers in classrooms because they have NO applications for the open teaching position. --- THEN that teacher must spend weeks and weeks every year teaching their students how to do well on the standardized test so the school can get a little extra money and the teacher may get a $500 bonus. SO ... students, PLEASE don't be creative, please don't think for yourself, please don't do anything but regurgitate the answers I'm going to spend weeks training you to answer with ... because that is what non-teachers think I should be evaluated on.
Teachers know (or they at least should) what they are getting into when they decide to become teachers. Would it be nice if every teacher could make 50k+ per year? Hell yea. Is that possible? Absolutely not. There is only so much the state can afford to spend on teacher salaries each year, while maintaining a balanced budget. They could raise taxes to allow more money for education, but it wouldn't get much support.
 
There are two answers here:

1. Saying under God when doing the pledge and giving children time to say a prayer to their God. Also a generic prayer where the teacher says that we need to pray to a higher power for our country, state, community and school.

2. Teaching the Bible as a History Book. If someone is Hindu, they still need to understand what is in the Bible. Here is where you as a parent may object, because a teacher could put his/her spin on it. However, teachers already put their spin on everything anyways. This is why you need to be in your child's life to discuss things like was Nixon a good or bad President overall.

I’ve mostly stayed away from the board because of this very thread, but you need to understand a few things that you are clearly lacking context or are just too ignorant to understand:

1: most schools continue to say the pledge and use Under God in it. To claim otherwise is stupid and idiotic.
2: it is FEDERAL LAW that a teacher can’t lead prayer in a public school. There is absolutely no law that states a child can not pray while in school. That’s called a separation of church and state and is one of the founding principles of why we aren’t still British. If that doesn’t make sense, read something called the Constitution and study up on what it actually means.
3: what are you saying is you want to force religion on people because you have an issue with people who aren’t. Again, a little something in the Constitution prevents you from doing that...called a freedom of religion.
4: If you truly believe the Bible is a book that needs to be taught as a history book, then you should have no issue with the Torah, the Koran, or any other religious book being taught as an historical book either. You can’t pick and choose simply because you believe your religion is better...it doesn’t make you better, it makes you an asshole.
5: if a child is Hindi and they need to know what is in the Bible, then your children need to know what is in the Koran...but I doubt you’d be for that given that it is a book of God from a man who is from the Middle East and spent his time in places like Jerusalem...oops, got lost and started talking about Jesus but you can copy and paste that about Mohammed as well.
6: Your lack of any sort of understanding about how to teach and education shows in that you think teachers ‘put a spin’ on everything. To simplify what I do as an educator is just putting a spin on things is an absolute joke.

Give me some more time, I’d like to respond to your other comments as well.
 
I may be old fashion, but IMO there are 3 basic things wrong with the school system today:

1. They took God out of the classroom. Kids today think they are a god and they are entitled to what THEY want. They can disrespect the teacher and do their thing and if the teacher objects the parents and administration sides with the kid.

2. The Government set it up so low income gets more benefits from being a single parent. Also note how the divorce rate has climbed. The biggest thread in common in prison is young men from single family homes. Kids need a disciplinarian at home to teach respect of God, family and school.

3. Schools started teaching to the lowest common denominator. When I grew up in NY, we had a HS degree and a Regents Degree. You aspired for the Regents and the smart kids remained engaged. If you couldn't cut it you get a HS degree and learn the basics. A great fall back was technical schools. I was never good making things, but we had kids in shop and auto repair. Good grades are important, but being the best carpenter or grease monkey has just as much prestige to me.

Actually this is a big reason I boycott the NFL. We need to return pride to our flag and our anthem.

Before I respond to these would you mind if I asked how old you are, are you college educated, if so where at, how many children have you had, and what have you done for a living? It will ensure I am not making generalizations on a few of my responses here that need cultural and social context.
 
I may be old fashion, but IMO there are 3 basic things wrong with the school system today:

1. They took God out of the classroom. Kids today think they are a god and they are entitled to what THEY want. They can disrespect the teacher and do their thing and if the teacher objects the parents and administration sides with the kid.

2. The Government set it up so low income gets more benefits from being a single parent. Also note how the divorce rate has climbed. The biggest thread in common in prison is young men from single family homes. Kids need a disciplinarian at home to teach respect of God, family and school.

3. Schools started teaching to the lowest common denominator. When I grew up in NY, we had a HS degree and a Regents Degree. You aspired for the Regents and the smart kids remained engaged. If you couldn't cut it you get a HS degree and learn the basics. A great fall back was technical schools. I was never good making things, but we had kids in shop and auto repair. Good grades are important, but being the best carpenter or grease monkey has just as much prestige to me.

Actually this is a big reason I boycott the NFL. We need to return pride to our flag and our anthem.

Before I respond to these would you mind if I asked how old you are, are you college educated, if so where at, how many children have you had, and what have you done for a living? It will ensure I am not making generalizations on a few of my responses here that need cultural and social context.

Some of your thoughts from the scrimmage were suspect at times. I'll go out on a limb here and say every negative thought you are having towards a few of these posters about education is spot on. Can't even bring myself to read the garbage that has been posted in this thread which was supposed to be about basketball. Absolutely despicable and downright deplorable.
 
THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING WHY TEACHERS ARE OVERPAID

I'm shocked you not know that the Torah is part of the Bible and would be the majority of Bible History? If I was a Christian student living in a majority Muslim country, yes the Koran should be taught to me; because I would like to know how the majority of other people think and act. Where did I say my religion was better?

If you want to be a better teacher, you need to stop putting your slant on others communication. I hope you don't use that language on students that have a different viewpoint than yours. Even though your title is teacher, you can learn from your students.[/QUOTE]
 
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I’ve mostly stayed away from the board because of this very thread, but you need to understand a few things that you are clearly lacking context or are just too ignorant to understand:

1: most schools continue to say the pledge and use Under God in it. To claim otherwise is stupid and idiotic.
2: it is FEDERAL LAW that a teacher can’t lead prayer in a public school. There is absolutely no law that states a child can not pray while in school. That’s called a separation of church and state and is one of the founding principles of why we aren’t still British. If that doesn’t make sense, read something called the Constitution and study up on what it actually means.
3: what are you saying is you want to force religion on people because you have an issue with people who aren’t. Again, a little something in the Constitution prevents you from doing that...called a freedom of religion.
4: If you truly believe the Bible is a book that needs to be taught as a history book, then you should have no issue with the Torah, the Koran, or any other religious book being taught as an historical book either. You can’t pick and choose simply because you believe your religion is better...it doesn’t make you better, it makes you an asshole.
5: if a child is Hindi and they need to know what is in the Bible, then your children need to know what is in the Koran...but I doubt you’d be for that given that it is a book of God from a man who is from the Middle East and spent his time in places like Jerusalem...oops, got lost and started talking about Jesus but you can copy and paste that about Mohammed as well.
6: Your lack of any sort of understanding about how to teach and education shows in that you think teachers ‘put a spin’ on everything. To simplify what I do as an educator is just putting a spin on things is an absolute joke.

Give me some more time, I’d like to respond to your other comments as well.

Not getting into this other than a bit of clarification on the constitution. There is "NO" separation of church and state. It is not there. A little perspective on this goes back to Thomas Jefferson who you may know was heavily influence by the French who were never buddies with England...but that is just a side understanding not directly relevant to this topic. What is relevant to this topic is that the King of England wanted a divorce a bit over a century prior while England was Catholic. This was during a time that Protestantism was starting to take root. The king's reason for a divorce was that his wife only had girls and "felt" (I guess he could have thought with the info at the time) that SHE was the problem and since he wanted a boy and believed she only capable of having girls, he wanted a divorce. The pope would not grant the king a divorce on those grounds and so the king made "Protestantism" ENGLAND'S RELIGION. What you had there was a "STATE" church or religion. Protestantism and Catholicism switched back and forth as new queens and such had a preference for one or the other, but whatever THAT choice at the moment was...THE COUNTRY DICTATED WHAT WOULD BE THE CHURCH...and this is a pretty important distinction from what we have in the USA.

So how did we get confused in the USA on this concept? Well Thomas Jefferson ended up writing a letter to the Dandrige Baptist church and it is my belief knowing the particular dislike for England (yeah they were familiar with history since there are many ties with the Magna Carta and the constitution, both being written 500+ years apart) that Thomas Jefferson did NOT want a STATE religion) and in Jefferson's famous letter we find, "‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” It is my contention that Jefferson...knowing what we know was interested in ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof' since we know the history for proper context and that Jefferson wanted to make sure the USA never established a mandated or STATE church as England had done. Jefferson wanted a lot of individual freedoms where people could worship as they desired and NOT worship under a STATE dictated church. Jefferson wanted the "FREE EXERCISE THEREOF of an ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION as he wrote.

Then along came Hugo Black and a little over half a century ago ignored the historical context and ignored the 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ and instead focused solely on the 'thus building a wall of separation between Church & State' and there you have it. My guess is at least 99% of the population has no idea. What may be of interest...and I'm posting this without reading it prior, but sure it is worthy of the couple of minutes needed... https://www.billofrightsinstitute.org/founding-documents/primary-source-documents/danburybaptists/
 
There are two answers here:

1. Saying under God when doing the pledge and giving children time to say a prayer to their God. Also consider a generic prayer where the teacher says that we need to pray to a higher power for our country, state, community and school.

2. Teaching the Bible as a History Book. If someone is Hindu, they still need to understand what is in the Bible. Here is where you as a parent may object, because a teacher could put his/her spin on it. However, teachers already put their spin on everything anyways. This is why you need to be in your child's life to discuss things like was Nixon a good or bad President overall.
I’m sorry...I can’t remember the last time I missed a church service on a Sunday morning but these ideas are nuts. My child goes to private school but I would never want his public school teacher instructing him how to pray and treating the Bible as a history book. As others have said, this feels borderline fascist to me.
 
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THANK YOU FOR EXPLAINING WHY TEACHERS ARE OVERPAID

I'm shocked you not know that the Torah is part of the Bible and would be the majority of Bible History? If I was a Christian student living in a majority Muslim country, yes the Koran should be taught to me; because I would like to know how the majority of other people think and act. Where did I say my religion was better?

If you want to be a better teacher, you need to stop putting your slant on others communication. I hope you don't use that language on students that have a different viewpoint than yours. Even though your title is teacher, you can learn from your students.
[/QUOTE]

Care to explain why you think an individual with a four year degree from Purdue University and graduated with multiple semester honors is overpaid after 10 years of teaching service and is getting 40k.

You want to complain about education in America and how awful it is and then also complain that teachers are over paid? That’s literally like choosing the cheapest contractor to build your house and then complain when it starts to fall over.

You allude to the fact that simply because a student lives in this country that they should be forced to adhere to a certain religious text. You go on to then say students should be forced to recite prayer as well. As someone else pointed out, your statements are fascist in nature.

Also to TJReese, thank you for the detailed explanation on that piece. My comment was mainly about the freedom of religion being in the Constitution but that there is also a separation of church and state as well. At 1am and dealing with two sick kiddos waking up at different times, my thoughts were a bit rushed.
 
I’m going to kill this thread as much as possible and simply stop responding. Your views are your views and an Internet chatboard isn’t going to bring about some revelation for an individual that shows an apparent deep lacking of understanding of the issue they are complaining about. If you think the issues with children today is with education, then look higher up to the party that consistently attempts to cut and slash funding and resources from education and expects teachers to do more with less.

Good day.
 

Care to explain why you think an individual with a four year degree from Purdue University and graduated with multiple semester honors is overpaid after 10 years of teaching service and is getting 40k.

You want to complain about education in America and how awful it is and then also complain that teachers are over paid? That’s literally like choosing the cheapest contractor to build your house and then complain when it starts to fall over.

You allude to the fact that simply because a student lives in this country that they should be forced to adhere to a certain religious text. You go on to then say students should be forced to recite prayer as well. As someone else pointed out, your statements are fascist in nature.

Also to TJReese, thank you for the detailed explanation on that piece. My comment was mainly about the freedom of religion being in the Constitution but that there is also a separation of church and state as well. At 1am and dealing with two sick kiddos waking up at different times, my thoughts were a bit rushed.[/QUOTE]
fully understand being a young father in particular. I just know that many people don't have the background in the subject and I think it is interesting...
 
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Just for the record, my mother was a teacher. When she became a teacher in HS, the other teachers were upset that she took a man’s job. Her first year she was assigned a study hall with non-regent thugs. When she walked in, the students gave her a hard time and the male teachers heard it, but walked away. By the end of the week, there was hardly a peep from her room and the other teachers were amazed and asked how she did it. Her answer was ingenious.

She did not make much money, but that did not stop her for generously giving to those students who did not have money. My mother did not have 4 degrees, but she figured out how to motivate kids to learn. In 20 years, she never had one student fail the NYS Regents.

I grew up in a time where I did not even think about my classmates’ race, color or creed. I did know that I had one of the best educations in the world, despite the fact that teachers were underpaid. I also know that something has changed with the education we are now giving. I gave some ideas and you give a reply to shut me up and you are a teacher?

We are doing something wrong. I have read where we have thrown more money at it with no results. Thank God, we finally have a President who is shaking things up. Will it get better? Not when we have close minded teachers. Hopefully you will pray about it and come up with practical solutions. You are like our Congressmen who campaigned constantly on repeal and replace. We finally got a President who will get things done and there should have been a repeal and replace bill on his desk. Where are your solutions besides throw money at it?
 
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Just for the record, my mother was a teacher. When she became a teacher in HS, the other teachers were upset that she took a man’s job. Her first year she was assigned a study hall with non-regent thugs. When she walked in, the students gave her a hard time and the male teachers heard it, but walked away. By the end of the week, there was hardly a peep from her room and the other teachers were amazed and asked how she did it. Her answer was ingenious.

She did not make much money, but that did not stop her for generously giving to those students who did not have money. My mother did not have 4 degrees, but she figured out how to motivate kids to learn. In 20 years, she never had one student fail the NYS Regents.

I grew up in a time where I did not even think about my classmates’ race, color or creed. I did know that I had one of the best educations in the world, despite the fact that teachers were underpaid. I also know that something has changed with the education we are now giving. I gave some ideas and you give a reply to shut me up and you are a teacher?

We are doing something wrong. I have read where we have thrown more money at it with no results. Thank God, we finally have a President who is shaking things up. Will it get better? Not when we have close minded teachers. Hopefully you will pray about it and come up with practical solutions. You are like our Congressmen who campaigned constantly on repeal and replace. We finally got a President who will get things done and there should have been a repeal and replace bill on his desk. Where are your solutions besides throw money at it?
I'll respond to this since a question was posed directly at me:

I'll start off with you sort of contradicting yourself by saying your mother was underpaid but in general teachers are overpaid. Which is it? If what you mean is that principle's should have more power to fire a teacher who is performing poorly, then I agree with you on that as a whole. The issue is that right now our teachers have been scapegoated as the problem and underpaid for so long that the profession is suffering due to it is now made out to be an unattractive field to get in to. I have provided a very well written article by News 6 about the issues of staffing and retention in the state of Indiana where most have said poor compensation for the amount of work done is what leads them to leaving their jobs. (http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/call-6-thousands-of-indiana-teachers-leaving-the-classroom). This issue is compounded when more veteran teachers are typically more effective in their strategies for educating young people. This isn't a factory job where you can simply learn on the fly and become good at your job due to repetition over a short period of time. It takes education, practice, higher learning (done now through the practice of Professional Growth Points needed every 5 years for re-licensing), a knowledge of learning styles and pedagogy, and the continued love of teaching to be effective. it also doesn't hurt to be compensated at a fair wage for the work that you do to show your work is valued. If you believed that you were underpaid for your educational level and the job you were performing, you would leave your job and that is just one reason as to why we can't retain many new teachers. I could honestly leave my teaching job right now and go to Tate & Lyle (if I was hired on) and make nearly twice as what I make currently. I am unable to do so for a number of reasons but mainly I have two sons who I have full time with little help from their mother.

You are some what correct that the issues in the past have simply had money thrown at it to see if it would be better but that rarely works. The issues are so much more profound and deeper culturally than simply throwing money at it can fix. I have thrown the idea of running for political office and have actually drafted ideas down about how to fix the educational issues in our country:

1: Fix the healthcare system in our country and see the health and wellness of our children improve. This improvement will benefit lower income families to miss less of work and increase their ability to work their hours needed to sustain their families with a lower reliance on programs such as medicare and welfare.
2: Improving child health will lower premiums and insurance costs over time. This can only truly be done by switching to a single health payer system. Allowing the government to be the single payer to the insurance companies will inherently allow the cost of insurance to go down as the government will refuse (and will largely be unable) to pay for the costs of medical as they currently are. For example, there are 500,000 heart bypass surgeries done every year in the America at roughly a cost of 75k per surgery for a total cost of $37.5 billion per year. The same surgery in Europe costs an average of $17,500 with absolutely no difference in the outcome of health. That means if a single payer system entity (like the Federal Government) was able to get their costs down to roughly the same as that in Europe, it would mean a total savings of roughly $28,750,000,000.00 per year in that single surgery alone. There is absolutely no reason that should be happening in America other than corporate greed which hurts nearly all Americans below what many would consider the very wealthy in this country.
3: High quality universal early childhood education (ages newborn to pre-k) will allow parents to free up more of their income to afford a higher quality of life. Many times children are forced in to situations where their learning and development is being put in front of a television or with minimal interaction. This uneven early development leads to delays and educational issues later on that could be identified at an earlier age and thus could be improved prior to a child entering K-12 schooling.
4: Creation of technical high schools that focuses on trades such as welding, CDL, heavy machinery operations, automotive, and other skills that have been lost as the United States has transitioned from an industrial economy (heavy manufacturing) to a post-industrial economy (service sector and technology). These skills are highly valuable moving forward as the countries infrastructure needs improving and the loss of these jobs leads to higher and higher costs (a traveling welder is in such demand their hourly rate can be as high as $400-$500 due to a lack of skilled welders in our country). These are lost skills that allow children who don't have the drive or the ability to go to college. As my father said, somebody is going to have to pick up your trash, or dig your ditches, or drive the trucks....there is nothing wrong with those jobs but children have been made to feel that those jobs are second rate jobs.
5: Funding of before and after school programs that promote a number of community first ideals. The idea of a strong community is the foundation of great schools and is evident by the school I teach at in the Lafayette area. A school with a weak social bond to the community typically has higher instances of issues.
6: Increase the recruiting and retention of high ability teachers with increased benefits packages and salaries.
7: Increase the ability of principals to justify the moving or firing of teachers who inhibit the success of their students.
8: Removal of high stakes standardized testing which has been proven to be largely ineffective (https://www.fairtest.org/reports-high-stakes-testing-hurts-education). It does nothing but promote an idea for teachers to teach toward the test instead of allowing teachers to be imaginative and innovative in their classroom. Want to know why education has been hurt in the last 20 year? This is reason #1 and needs to be abolished immediately. Should kids take tests like the SAT/ACT or ISTEP to look at progress at a base level? Of course, but kids are tested so heavily now that my nephew was on a computer on the first day of kindergarten for testing and re-testing. Something is very wrong with that necessity.
9: Increase teacher wages: The state of Indiana has seen a decrease of 11% from 2015-2016 in the wages and is currently 9.1% below the national level. Some sources even place that number as high as 16%.
10: Restructuring of our educational system on the idea of STEAM (science, technology, engineering, arts, math). This idea can begin heavily at the lower age levels where emotional and mental health are shown to improve with being in the arts. Currently, educational policy has forced the cutting of arts programs from schools instead of allowing them to expand as our technology for arts has expanded.
11: Restructuring the social welfare programs needs to be focused on building infrastructure instead of just handing out monetary amounts. Building access to things such as libraries, grocery stores, banks, community centers, and other necessities builds on the idea previously of pride in a community being the basis for building successful schools.

That's most of my ideas and I can expand on them if wanted or requested. If anyone actually makes it through that novel I just wrote, I congratulate you. However, I felt personally as though that my knowledge of the issues at hand in education was being challenged as an educator and one that I felt would be good to point out that my ideas and my opinions aren't just whimsical or degrading those who have different ideas. I have researched and done countless debates with individuals ranging in fields to come up with many of these ideas.
 
.... I'm guessing you are one who isn't for teacher pay based on how well their students do on standardized tests...
Just to clarify how this thread got whipper-jawed --- Boilerss felt it was important to challenge Johnnydoe's thoughts on teachers pay ... without that intrusion into the scrimmage thread, it would never have gone where it went ...
 
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I like debates, as long as people are reasonable.

I also don't mind being controversial. For example, most on this board would say Haap and Wagner are better than Haas and I think Haas is the key if we want to be the best in the country. Haas is more intimidating on D, he sets great picks and he is unstoppable down low. He should be playing 30 minutes per game.

If he gets tired, then let him outlet the ball for a fast break and take his time coming up court. When he gets there, then feed him down low. He scores and gets his man in foul trouble. His left hand looks improved and he needs to take more mid range jump shots. We are worried about match ups, but let him guard someone who does not shoot 3's. He can stop the drive and if the op hits 50% shooting 15-18 footers that is fine. If they go small, who the heck can stop him down low. I'll take 70% shooting with fouls to 50%. We should also be doing twin towers with him and Haarms/Taylor.

BTW, since we have many teachers at this blog, who know how to motivate students. We should all be encouraging Haas to be more aggressive on the boards. I'm sure like other players he reads this. Last year, he was taken out when aggressive. This year, we have depth and Haas should be motivated to go after every D board. If he and Haarms/Taylor gets 4 fouls - big deal. Last year, it was.
 
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Reactions: todd brewster
I'll respond to this since a question was posed directly at me:

I'll start off with you sort of contradicting yourself by saying your mother was underpaid but in general teachers are overpaid. Which is it? If what you mean is that principle's should have more power to fire a teacher who is performing poorly, then I agree with you on that as a whole. The issue is that right now our teachers have been scapegoated as the problem and underpaid for so long that the profession is suffering due to it is now made out to be an unattractive field to get in to. I have provided a very well written article by News 6 about the issues of staffing and retention in the state of Indiana where most have said poor compensation for the amount of work done is what leads them to leaving their jobs. (http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/call-6-thousands-of-indiana-teachers-leaving-the-classroom). This issue is compounded when more veteran teachers are typically more effective in their strategies for educating young people. This isn't a factory job where you can simply learn on the fly and become good at your job due to repetition over a short period of time. It takes education, practice, higher learning (done now through the practice of Professional Growth Points needed every 5 years for re-licensing), a knowledge of learning styles and pedagogy, and the continued love of teaching to be effective. it also doesn't hurt to be compensated at a fair wage for the work that you do to show your work is valued. If you believed that you were underpaid for your educational level and the job you were performing, you would leave your job and that is just one reason as to why we can't retain many new teachers. I could honestly leave my teaching job right now and go to Tate & Lyle (if I was hired on) and make nearly twice as what I make currently. I am unable to do so for a number of reasons but mainly I have two sons who I have full time with little help from their mother.

You are some what correct that the issues in the past have simply had money thrown at it to see if it would be better but that rarely works. The issues are so much more profound and deeper culturally than simply throwing money at it can fix. I have thrown the idea of running for political office and have actually drafted ideas down about how to fix the educational issues in our country:

1: Fix the healthcare system in our country and see the health and wellness of our children improve. This improvement will benefit lower income families to miss less of work and increase their ability to work their hours needed to sustain their families with a lower reliance on programs such as medicare and welfare.
2: Improving child health will lower premiums and insurance costs over time. This can only truly be done by switching to a single health payer system. Allowing the government to be the single payer to the insurance companies will inherently allow the cost of insurance to go down as the government will refuse (and will largely be unable) to pay for the costs of medical as they currently are. For example, there are 500,000 heart bypass surgeries done every year in the America at roughly a cost of 75k per surgery for a total cost of $37.5 billion per year. The same surgery in Europe costs an average of $17,500 with absolutely no difference in the outcome of health. That means if a single payer system entity (like the Federal Government) was able to get their costs down to roughly the same as that in Europe, it would mean a total savings of roughly $28,750,000,000.00 per year in that single surgery alone. There is absolutely no reason that should be happening in America other than corporate greed which hurts nearly all Americans below what many would consider the very wealthy in this country.
3: High quality universal early childhood education (ages newborn to pre-k) will allow parents to free up more of their income to afford a higher quality of life. Many times children are forced in to situations where their learning and development is being put in front of a television or with minimal interaction. This uneven early development leads to delays and educational issues later on that could be identified at an earlier age and thus could be improved prior to a child entering K-12 schooling.
4: Creation of technical high schools that focuses on trades such as welding, CDL, heavy machinery operations, automotive, and other skills that have been lost as the United States has transitioned from an industrial economy (heavy manufacturing) to a post-industrial economy (service sector and technology). These skills are highly valuable moving forward as the countries infrastructure needs improving and the loss of these jobs leads to higher and higher costs (a traveling welder is in such demand their hourly rate can be as high as $400-$500 due to a lack of skilled welders in our country). These are lost skills that allow children who don't have the drive or the ability to go to college. As my father said, somebody is going to have to pick up your trash, or dig your ditches, or drive the trucks....there is nothing wrong with those jobs but children have been made to feel that those jobs are second rate jobs.
5: Funding of before and after school programs that promote a number of community first ideals. The idea of a strong community is the foundation of great schools and is evident by the school I teach at in the Lafayette area. A school with a weak social bond to the community typically has higher instances of issues.
6: Increase the recruiting and retention of high ability teachers with increased benefits packages and salaries.
7: Increase the ability of principals to justify the moving or firing of teachers who inhibit the success of their students.
8: Removal of high stakes standardized testing which has been proven to be largely ineffective (https://www.fairtest.org/reports-high-stakes-testing-hurts-education). It does nothing but promote an idea for teachers to teach toward the test instead of allowing teachers to be imaginative and innovative in their classroom. Want to know why education has been hurt in the last 20 year? This is reason #1 and needs to be abolished immediately. Should kids take tests like the SAT/ACT or ISTEP to look at progress at a base level? Of course, but kids are tested so heavily now that my nephew was on a computer on the first day of kindergarten for testing and re-testing. Something is very wrong with that necessity.
9: Increase teacher wages: The state of Indiana has seen a decrease of 11% from 2015-2016 in the wages and is currently 9.1% below the national level. Some sources even place that number as high as 16%.
10: Restructuring of our educational system on the idea of STEAM (science, technology, engineering, arts, math). This idea can begin heavily at the lower age levels where emotional and mental health are shown to improve with being in the arts. Currently, educational policy has forced the cutting of arts programs from schools instead of allowing them to expand as our technology for arts has expanded.
11: Restructuring the social welfare programs needs to be focused on building infrastructure instead of just handing out monetary amounts. Building access to things such as libraries, grocery stores, banks, community centers, and other necessities builds on the idea previously of pride in a community being the basis for building successful schools.

That's most of my ideas and I can expand on them if wanted or requested. If anyone actually makes it through that novel I just wrote, I congratulate you. However, I felt personally as though that my knowledge of the issues at hand in education was being challenged as an educator and one that I felt would be good to point out that my ideas and my opinions aren't just whimsical or degrading those who have different ideas. I have researched and done countless debates with individuals ranging in fields to come up with many of these ideas.

First and foremost I feel for you with two young boys and a mother that is missing. I hope that ends soon, but if it doesn't YOU will know what difference your life made. I like your passion and obviously agree and disagree on a few things. No question a "good" teacher is underpaid, but like the public unable to identify what a teacher "should do" it makes it hard to agree on what is a "good" teacher. As one with a passing interest in data, I'm not a fan of Alfie Kohn...and particularly his multiple stupidities.

Seeing the fair test link I copied the following: "
Last year, Professors Audrey Amrein and David Berliner of Arizona State University reported that gains states report on their own high-stakes tests do not correlate with results from other exams, such as the National Assessment of Educational Progress or SAT and ACT college entrance tests (see Examiner, Spring 2002). In states with graduation tests, scores on these other exams often declined or grew less quickly relative to the nation as a whole. Their students were apparently less well prepared and less likely to go to college than their peers in non-high-stakes states."

There is a correlation as there is damn near some correlation on everything, but it may be a mathmatical number rather than a relationship. Seeing those words I went ...well duh, why would anyone be surprised with the mathematical correlation between any of those and high stake testing?

There is a tome of data that shows money spent does not improve the measurements of academic values chosen. Could it if spent differently? Perhaps, but then again maybe not? Could different measurement make money spent an important variable? Another set of historical data (I say historical because I haven't reviewed it in a decade) is that when the USA is compared to other countries we do quite well in the early grades and soon fall back as more time is spent in school. In comparison to other countries do our elementary schools on the whole do a better job than secondary or are there other reasons why we are or were more competitive when the students were young than after a few years in the public or government schools?

I knew what I was looking for and saw this. It isn't the same as what I would provide a decade or so ago and noticed that "Checker" or Chester Finn is still involved. http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/teach.profession.carnine.pdf

I can tell you that a LOT of money spent by the government on student loans and pell grants involves a LOT of students that only want the money. Bottom line...love your passion adn truly believe that a "good" teacher should not be restricted to 40K, but also understand some reasons behind that and the many good teachers that are hurt as a result.

Until there is a consenus on "what a school should do" there will be thousands of frustrations for all and unless we truly have different schools or change the public to a single idea on what a school should do...this will continue I'm afraid. Right now about all involved in k-12 education drink from the same trough. I would love for education to be improved, valued and respected, but have little hope that will happen in my lifetime. On three different occasions I considered teaching, but the "methods" courses to teach (in many cases not supported by research) steered me away...THAT and the money...and back then you had to have a teacher's license to coach...just like a retired pharmacist can't teach elementary chemistry.

There are sooooooooooo many problems in education and for many it is only whose Ox is getting gored as opposed to what is best for the country. No easy answers here...no obvious directions to take other than I wish your X found time for her sons. Hang in there and do the best you can and whatever path you take always do behind close doors as if the whole world were watching. You are positioned to make a positive impact in your students....AND your children. When yout time on earth has passed, the other things will not matter... :(
 
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Reactions: JohnnyDoeBoiler
I like debates, as long as people are reasonable.

I also don't mind being controversial. For example, most on this board would say Haap and Wagner are better than Haas and I think Haas is the key if we want to be the best in the country. Haas is more intimidating on D, he sets great picks and he is unstoppable down low. He should be playing 30 minutes per game.

If he gets tired, then let him outlet the ball for a fast break and take his time coming up court. When he gets there, then feed him down low. He scores and gets his man in foul trouble. His left hand looks improved and he needs to take more mid range jump shots. We are worried about match ups, but let him guard someone who does not shoot 3's. He can stop the drive and if the op hits 50% shooting 15-18 footers that is fine. If they go small, who the heck can stop him down low. I'll take 70% shooting with fouls to 50%. We should also be doing twin towers with him and Haarms/Taylor.

BTW, since we have many teachers at this blog, who know how to motivate students. We should all be encouraging Haas to be more aggressive on the boards. I'm sure like other players he reads this. Last year, he was taken out when aggressive. This year, we have depth and Haas should be motivated to go after every D board. If he and Haarms/Taylor gets 4 fouls - big deal. Last year, it was.

ya know...I hope Matt tries a little Haarms or Taylor with Haas some. I suspect that Taylor "may" not be the passer as Haarms, but it was obvious last night that Haarms can put the ball on the court. I hope it is a viable option.
 
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