Fansince72 mentioned Rick Mount. I also wonder what percentage Troy Lewis would have shot.
Scrimmage against ISU thoughts:
- Thread starter JohnnyDoeBoiler
- Start date
the 50% typo already had me stat searching haha.
last season, only 2 in the country pulled it off (from marquette, Kennesaw st, meeting ncaa min requirements for the stat).
and those 2 ranked 49th and 65th in 3s made per game.
one of the more elusive categories for sure
Here's where I got my number.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...r/_/stat/3-points/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct
I remember those days ... getting nostalgic. Zo attempted something like 7 three point shots in his first 2 years (and he played a lot of minutes, shot a good FG % and played well in those seasons). Came into his junior year and was a great 3 pt shooter the entire season including making 8 against Kansas in NCAA. 95 was his senior year when no one expected anything from that team (lost Big Dog, Waddell had tore his ACL over the summer - and Waddell somehow played decent his senior year).
Zo is one of my favorite Boilers of all time.
So it seems like our realistic rotation will include:
PJ Thompson
Carsen Edwards
Dakota Mathias
Vince Edwards
Isaac Haas
Ryan Cline
Nojel Eastern
Matt Haarms
Jacquil Taylor (if/when healthy)
That's a very solid 8-9 man rotation with versatility at every spot. It has shooters, defenders, athleticism, slashers, play makers. I get that maybe Ewing/Wheeler will play some based on injuries and foul trouble, but seems like they will get limited minutes, if any, otherwise.
PJ Thompson
Carsen Edwards
Dakota Mathias
Vince Edwards
Isaac Haas
Ryan Cline
Nojel Eastern
Matt Haarms
Jacquil Taylor (if/when healthy)
That's a very solid 8-9 man rotation with versatility at every spot. It has shooters, defenders, athleticism, slashers, play makers. I get that maybe Ewing/Wheeler will play some based on injuries and foul trouble, but seems like they will get limited minutes, if any, otherwise.
I was at the game yesterday - had a smile on my face when I left Indy and still had it when I got back home. Some thoughts...
The scoreboard and screens are world class.
It didn't stand out in the stats but Eastern could be really effective going to the hole. Once he gets the speed of the game down- watch out. Side note- his shooting mechanics are a problem.
Dakota and Cline are money. Maybe not 50% money but really good shooters. Not sure how you do it but Purdue should be looking to get Mathias more attempts. Both he and Cline were pulling the trigger from way behind the line. I know the consensus is Eifert is probably lightly used but he is savvy and works hard - if rebounding woes arise he will get you some.
Carsen -good or bad - adds way too much to the team not to be on the court. Stats could be misleading when evaluating his impact.
The scoreboard and screens are world class.
It didn't stand out in the stats but Eastern could be really effective going to the hole. Once he gets the speed of the game down- watch out. Side note- his shooting mechanics are a problem.
Dakota and Cline are money. Maybe not 50% money but really good shooters. Not sure how you do it but Purdue should be looking to get Mathias more attempts. Both he and Cline were pulling the trigger from way behind the line. I know the consensus is Eifert is probably lightly used but he is savvy and works hard - if rebounding woes arise he will get you some.
Carsen -good or bad - adds way too much to the team not to be on the court. Stats could be misleading when evaluating his impact.
Because it is hyper unrealistic, in the territory of Purdue will go undefeated this year unrealistic. Only 7 players last year out of 350 ish teams shot better than 50% from three and only Two of those players shot more than 100 attempts (for comparison Purdue had 5 players last year with more than 100 attempts aka the guys we are talking about here). That would pretty much mean that Purdue would have like the top 3 shooters in all of basketball next year (sort of I think the kid from marquette is returning).
There is a difference between an optimistic claim and a senseless one it is.
Nojel will b fine including his shooting. His shooting Mechanics doesn’t matter as long as he is taking open shots when he is open that is all he needs to worry about. He gives them options at all 4 positions offensively and defensively I’m just glad he shooting the ball at this point. He working on his shot everyday to get better and he has.
please read all of the thread before posting.
Here's my beef with this whole thread: Johnny went to a game I coouldn't go to. He took time to write his thoughts on what he saw. Anyone who is on this board knows he is a knowledgeable fan. I'm out of state right now and really appreciated his coomments and analysis. SOme of you felt he was overly optimistc - two even think he could mislead readers (Really? you think others on here needd your policing of posts?) You who think it's your duty to protect other readers from overly optimisitc posts could be taking away my chance at getting good solid info. If I were him, I wouldnt waste my time posting future analysis of things that I won't be able to see . And that bothers me...
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I think we have a bi-polar board here people. One minute we're criticizing boiler 73 for being too negative, the next minute we're criticizing Johnny for being too positive.
Nice post. It was great to finally see these guys live. Here are some additional observations.
1. Starting 5 of Haas, Vince, Carsen, Mathias, and PJ looked great offensively and defensively together. Defensive rebounding will be the key issue to getting stops, but the lead always grew with this group out there. They were a lot of fun to watch, with great chemistry as expected.
2. Agree 100% on Mathias. This team is so much better when he is aggressive offensively because he rarely makes the wrong decision. No doubt he has ability to hang 30 on someone this year. Locked down Brenton Scott most of the game too.
3. Haas made some nice passes out of the post when doubled which was awesome to see. Looked to be more active at challenging shots on D too. Needs to do much better at rebounding for Purdue to hit their peak as a team this year though. If he catches it deep he is nearly automatic or draws a foul, should still be #1 option in half court on offense because of this. Conditioning looked good too. He should have a great Sr year.
4. Haarms will be a very good player for Purdue sometime during his career, but still needs strength. He will definitely play this year though. Seems very confident, in a way Purdue fans will love him and opposing teams probably won't
5. Eastern met expectations, but fans need to be patient. Made some GREAT passes. Looked comfortable bringing the ball up too. His bread and butter will be finishing at the rim. Needs some work on free throws if he wants to play at end of close games. Didn't look comfortable at the line at all, but it was his first game so hopefully this gets better.
6. This team needs a guy like Taylor with some muscle and athleticism inside. Really hope is foot is OK.
7. Didn't see as much of Wheeler as I would like. Played hard on D, and looked confident on 3 he made. I personally hope he doesn't redshirt since this team could use him if Vince is in foul trouble. This is a year you go all in IMO. Also agree on the upside, which is why I think he needs to play. A guy with length, athleticism, that can shoot the 3 might be too good to stick around for 5th year anyway.
Folks, let's not argue just a few days before Halloween
Wow that last sentence tells me quite a bit about you. It’s not good.
Clearly you know nothing of the realities of teaching and you definitely don’t grasp that not all schools have students with the same capabilities as others.
If it were you teaching students from underprivileged backgrounds, you would feel the same. Management loves to make decisions based on an easy to obtain metric such as the standardized test results but the metric is false if the variables other than the teacher differ.
Oh ya, you came off like a jerk too.
How am I close-minded? I asked what your solution would be. All teachers hate standardized tests, but none of them have a better solution.
Because you've made it clear that yiu are with every post. How about each student gets a baseline test first day of every year. They are then evaluated for progress at the end of the year. And their parents participation is, also evaluated. The more progress the more pay. Considering parental participation also. Be sure to include special needs students who are required to have one-on-one Para with them, but never do because the school can't afford them. So the teacher spends more time with them. As well as all the students who's parents think it's the teachers job to teach their kids and won't help with home work.-I'll leave class size for another discussion
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The evaluations use critical thinking skills - not puking back the standardized answers (teaching to the test) - they present situations and have the students create the best solution... So all the time of the the year can be spent teaching over wasting much of it on test prep. Problem solving, creativity and communication are valued.
So you would be getting paid per student, or paid based on the average of your students? Wouldn't the the starting and ending tests be standardized? How would the parents' participation be evaluated? I don't mind the idea, but I think those are big questions.
He wasn't being negative. He simply stated his opinion that he doesn't think wheeler will make the nba. And if i was forced to bet i would agree. Lower rated 3 stars typically don't make the nba. Doesn't mean he won't be a good player or that he won't make the nba. Some people just don't see it as being likely.
Not an iu fan. What does that even have anything to do with what i said?
Maybe you aught to change your handle to Buckeye Bob, or Badger Bill , you might get a warmer reception
a lot of that stuff I can agree with, but not about to type that much since I'm not an English teacher.
I did see Haas put it on the floor farther as you stated. I thought Vince hunted shots early and didn't see him at his best that game. I thought Dakota was GREAT...and like Biggie a "made" ball player. Carsen is much better up and down the court and is better overall. Still too high of a volume shooter IMO, but not much since he can break a game open. Yeah, I think people are going to like Haarms (if I haven't said it before ; ), but I have to see more before I put JC at a 4 and Haarms at a 5. I may switch them around, but would probably play both as 4s and tell them to see who they are matched up with as to who goes where..and if equal...switch with quick posts to keep it moving and mixed up. I can see improvement in Cline in his whole game and a more consistent shot from deep.I wish I were younger, closer and able to spend a few moments with Nojel shooting...assuming of course that most of practice is spent on team things and individual shooting is not getting dissected. If he is getting individual work...great, because he brings sooooo many other things. shasha will be very good as junior. he is more athletic than Dakota and Cline...and if he works at it ...assuming a red shirt this year...he will be a valuable person on the team. Wheeler can play now, but with Haarms, Vince and GRady (will ewing come along?)...and of course a healthy Taylor..a red shirt gives him several very good years at Purdue..."if" not fully needed this year..and yet if he plays this year...that is not a surprise either.
I wasn't particularly impressed with Purdue the first half and it appeared that Matt got some spark in them at half. I haven't seen Brenton Scott since high school and didn't happen to notice Bryson in the gym. Dakota guarded Brenton. It is so early, but it appears that Carsen and Haas have such different speeds where they are effective that however Matt uses them for the most effective minutes may be a huge key to this year..along with several other keys. Haas is a dominant player down low with good offensive skills, but slower reflexes. Carsen is best up and down the floor. Purdue without getting too one dimensional must use Haas when in there because he cannot go for ever...and that doesn't mean he has to score everytime...but Purdue must look inside...and If Haarms and Taylor are playing with Carsen...it will be a much faster pace...particularly if Haas can put their bigs in some foul trouble early and JC and Haarms are going against some backups part of the time...
You asked, so my appologies, but this is going to get a little preachy.
Not on any one measurement alone. My first thought is test score delta from beginning of the year to the end. The principal also needs to have his/her own assessment of the teachers performance. I would also have confidential, independent peer evaluations provided to the principal. The Principal would have a raise pool and he would determine how much of that pool is given to each of his/her teachers.
My kids attended public school in an affluent community where most students had a solid family background and where education is a very high priority of the parents. Everybody goes to pre school and they show up to Kindegarten well prepared both in terms of behavior and academics. There are signup sheets for parents to get the opportunity to come in and help in school because there are too many volunteers. This school system is always among the most highly rated if not the top. The biggest challenge for teachers often is satisfying the parents.
My wife teaches Kindegarten in a school system with a very high ratio of "free and reduced lunch" students. There is a very high percentage of students with single mothers working two jobs to support multiple children. Many of her kids don't see their father much and some don't know their father. The result sadly, is kids showing up to the beginning of their school career having never been to pre school, not knowing colors, numbers, or any letters. Many of the kids have not been taught how to behave by anyone/anything except the streets. They do know how to cuss like sailors and to make themselves the center of attention in the most negative ways. Quite a few each year have emotional issues or ADD/ADHD. These kids then take tests that have content which was 1st and 2nd grader level just a few years ago.
I go in a day or two early each year just to help her get them started. I usually spend my day with one or two of the worst behavior kids to allow my wife to get the rest of the class into some level of control so she can then deal with the biggest challenges while teaching the class.
She works and fights to teach these kids and give them the basics of behavior, respect, and knowledge they need to move on in school. The stories are shocking, funny, sad, and sometimes depressing. Anyone who thinks the job is easy, or that they are paid too much, or that they get too much time off or that all the incoming kids and parents are the same in every school is sadly mistaken.
Sorry about the rant...back to hoops.
This teacher pay business is important, but needs to land on the Off-Topic board.
I don't think if you were constructing a road, you expect the same pay per mile building through upper Ohio (nice and flat) as you would building through the Wasatch Mountains, right? The amount of effort to build a mile of road really varies. Same with teaching.
Teachers who get into inner city schools (God bless them) where poverty, gangs and broken families make life tough for the kids need as much or more pay than those teaching in suburbia, where mommy and daddy buy a BMW for their kid, a kid who is expected to go to college. The test scores between these two groups are far more affected by their circumstances than by their teachers. Some would base a teacher's pay on criteria almost completely outside the teacher's control? That's not right, and the posters here should know that. Just my humble opinion.
I don't think if you were constructing a road, you expect the same pay per mile building through upper Ohio (nice and flat) as you would building through the Wasatch Mountains, right? The amount of effort to build a mile of road really varies. Same with teaching.
Teachers who get into inner city schools (God bless them) where poverty, gangs and broken families make life tough for the kids need as much or more pay than those teaching in suburbia, where mommy and daddy buy a BMW for their kid, a kid who is expected to go to college. The test scores between these two groups are far more affected by their circumstances than by their teachers. Some would base a teacher's pay on criteria almost completely outside the teacher's control? That's not right, and the posters here should know that. Just my humble opinion.
There is just way toooooooo many things to discuss relative to education or lack of that I will mostly refrain knowing I really don't have the time AND know that most people can't agree on what education should do...which makes it hard to improve. That said, I've personally been involved a couple of decades ago when the IDOE was trying to use reduced lunches as a predictor not aware that some looking at teh data and analysis could see the results were entirely different than the projection. I always found "student gain" interesting in that it measures the gain of a student rather than the student position at testing time...removing somewhat the more advanced students and lower students from where they are...but instead the "gain". Somewhere in my closet I have the 1982 or so study by Robert McLean and Bill Sanders that led to TVAASYou asked, so my appologies, but this is going to get a little preachy.
Not on any one measurement alone. My first thought is test score delta from beginning of the year to the end. The principal also needs to have his/her own assessment of the teachers performance. I would also have confidential, independent peer evaluations provided to the principal. The Principal would have a raise pool and he would determine how much of that pool is given to each of his/her teachers.
My kids attended public school in an affluent community where most students had a solid family background and where education is a very high priority of the parents. Everybody goes to pre school and they show up to Kindegarten well prepared both in terms of behavior and academics. There are signup sheets for parents to get the opportunity to come in and help in school because there are too many volunteers. This school system is always among the most highly rated if not the top. The biggest challenge for teachers often is satisfying the parents.
My wife teaches Kindegarten in a school system with a very high ratio of "free and reduced lunch" students. There is a very high percentage of students with single mothers working two jobs to support multiple children. Many of her kids don't see their father much and some don't know their father. The result sadly, is kids showing up to the beginning of their school career having never been to pre school, not knowing colors, numbers, or any letters. Many of the kids have not been taught how to behave by anyone/anything except the streets. They do know how to cuss like sailors and to make themselves the center of attention in the most negative ways. Quite a few each year have emotional issues or ADD/ADHD. These kids then take tests that have content which was 1st and 2nd grader level just a few years ago.
I go in a day or two early each year just to help her get them started. I usually spend my day with one or two of the worst behavior kids to allow my wife to get the rest of the class into some level of control so she can then deal with the biggest challenges while teaching the class.
She works and fights to teach these kids and give them the basics of behavior, respect, and knowledge they need to move on in school. The stories are shocking, funny, sad, and sometimes depressing. Anyone who thinks the job is easy, or that they are paid too much, or that they get too much time off or that all the incoming kids and parents are the same in every school is sadly mistaken.
Sorry about the rant...back to hoops.
http://www.tn.gov/education/topic/tvaas
Teaching can be very hard and that is why so much respect goes to Jaimie Escalante
https://thebestschools.org/magazine/jaime-escalante-21st-century-still-standing-delivering/
and Marva Collins
https://www.biography.com/people/marva-collins-5894
Why does every damn post on this board go WAY off topic? Come on boilers, it's almost time for our highly anticipated boilers to play ball, and were arguing about teaching
Johnny and TJ,
Did either of you see a difference in this team relative to last year which will help against a team like they faced last year in Kansas?
It's a very open question and probably too early to say but I am curious if you saw a change that could push to that level.
Good question:
I think with Haarms and a healthy Taylor along with Nojel/Wheeler, CMP has the ability to better matchup with teams like Kansas last season in the event Purdue can’t force the game the way they want it to go. The options for CMP to be able to create better matchups for the team this season is truly impacted by Haarms/Taylor, Nojel, and Wheeler...but the most important player in that regard might be PJ. If he has the ability to become a scorer (when needed), his leadership and scoring ability coupled with those younger guys could extend the bench a bit more. For those that we’re there, the final lineup of regulars was really PJ, Nojel, Wheeler, Ewing, Haarms. I know that lineup may never see the floor again in meaningful time...but a lineup of PJ, Nojel, Cline, Wheeler, Haarms isn’t out of the question...and that would really need strong leadership and a consistent scoring threat from PJ.
I think what you also saw is that the first 8 players will probably play most of the game...with Haarms/Taylor probably switching roles depending on the night. Mathias, Vince, and Carsen may end up being guys who play 34+ minutes a night on ocassion with PJ floating around 30. That’s just because the 4 seniors bring a ton to the table no matter the skill of the youth.
To answer your question more directly: I think adding Haarms and Nojel allows CMP to matchup with a team like Kansas. Removing Haas and PJ would allow the flexibility in the lineup on defense without sacrificing much on offense. The issue would then become using that lineup for extended minutes when needed without tiring...Purdue has the ability to do so, but it depends on the development of Ewing and Wheeler to so comfortably for an entire game.
Good Lord I didn't belittle him, I gave him a little good-natured ribbing. Which seems to be how he took it. Figured it was an honest mistake.
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