You act like we landed gold in Haywards class. We gave a scholarship to John Hart a no star. Don't act like we gave it to a better recruit. The other two Ryne Smith and Lew Jack turned out to be good but they were rated a 3* just like him. We also landed two low ranked recruits in Robbie's class so there could of been room for Howard.
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I get it, but I recall very similar discussions at this stage in 2014 when Painter had no commitments and offered Dakota Mathias. I think that Painter learned from those dark 09-11 years and emphasizes fit more and being more selective with early offers, while he is also offering more scholarships rather than offering a few players and hoping everyone else is still available if they choose to go elsewhere. I think that the way he handled point guard last year by offering three players for one position was the right approach, rather than holding out for Xavier Simpson. As it worked out, Carson Edwards rose in the rankings to about Simpson's level over time as well. The other thing I see recently is that Painter is more willing to go national with his recruiting and it seems to be helping.
Ok? So? What if John Hart turned into a top 10 draft pick then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Butler snagged an unranked kid who turned out to be a great player. Hindsight is 20/20 but at the landing John Hart or Hayward was a wash. No one could've predicted the player Hayward would develop into.
Statistically Bates-Diop and Edwards are pretty close. If Bates-Diop is average, then so is Edwards.
probably just a Freudian slip...from reality to the public perception. I figured it that way the second I saw it...what you really thought and what you typed...
Well, Hayward won a state title for Brownsburg and did it on a game-winning shot so that was an indicator right there that he was a winner, or at the least, had some clutch-ness to him.
I also like painter's more national approach to recruiting. Obviously he needs to continue to recruit the Midwest but, I have no problems with him going to Alabama or Texas recruit players.
Not sure what you mean with the "useage rates for each are much different".
Here are the facts:
Bates-Diop
Mins. FG. %. 3pt. %. FT. %. Reb. Ast. Blk. Stls. PF. TO. Avg
31.5. 4.3-9.4 .453 1.1-3.4 .324 2.1-2.7 .787 6.4 1.1 1.2 0.7 1.8 1.4 11.8
Edwards
27.5 4.0-8.8 .450 1.3-3.2 .407 2.1-2.5 .820 5.4 2.9 0.3 0.5 2.2. 1.7 11.3
Above are stats for actual playing time. Again, very close. Edwards better 3pt %, assist. Bates-Diop better rebound, block. And again per your words, Bates-Diop is average. If that holds true, then so is Edwards.
You said Bluitt was the only player we have "lost" to butler or Xavier. Which is simply not true. Painter recruited Hayward harder than he did Bluitt, but he turned off the family big time on their visit to campus.
Per 40 mins stats are crap. Case in point. Some scrub plays 1 minute in a blow out game. Scores 2 pts. Does that 5 times a yr. Plays in only 5 games. His per 40 min extrapolates to 80 pts per game. Imagine 5 such players on a team. That would be 400 point game average. Total BS.
I do think you have a point. The 'per-40' data would also be flawed if the kid played all 40 minutes. Things like fatigue and opponent's defensive focus all play into making the measure less accurate. I would call those "Boundary Conditions" because they are at the extreme boundaries of the measurement. That said, for comparing two kids who are in the regular rotation, who play 10-30 minutes per game, the per-40 is a good way to level out their statistics.
I do beleive Bluitt was a recruiting miss, and I think most of us would agree with that assessment. I would have liked to have him on the team. However, if I had to choose between Edwards and Buitt, I would take Edwards every time, because he has a better overall skill set, and a higher ceiling. How about we agree we would have liked both kids on the team?
Per stats on ESPN, Bates-Diop averaged 31.5 mins a game. For a third time, not much stat diff between an average player in Bates-Diop and Edwards.
Don't recall how recruiting played out with Bluiett. Yes, a definite miss on Painter's part. And yes, would take Bluiett in a heart beat.
Except apparently Brad Stevens.
The fact is both Howard and Brunk had Purdue offers and chose Butler.
To Painter, yes. He told Hayward when he was a junior in HS that he thought he would be an NBA player.
And really, what difference does it make what a bunch of posters on a message board think about a recruit? A miss is a miss.
Matt Howard on the other hand, was not a miss, as we didn't have a scholarship left for him by the time he decided on a school. Martin made his choice for him.
Now, if Creaning had been in vogue .... Martin would have been traded to ND ...
Brunk & Howard both had plenty of other options too. Not just between Purdue & Butler.
I think everyone should build a yurt, buy some good tobacco, go in, shut the door, light the pipe, close their eyes, and picture themselves as the Father (or Mother) of a good player who has scholarships offers from ten or so good schools (PU, IU, Xavier, Butler, etc). Consider the person your son is. Consider he is probably not going to the NBA. Consider that he is (or is not) a good student wanting to major in a real major. Consider his social likes ... introvert/extrovert. Wants a big school, doesn't like big schools. Wants to be the star, or he doesn't want the limelight.
Nothing here has much to do with how good a player he is (other than not good enough to go on) ... it has to do with your son's personal happiness and future success.
At one time, my son was recruited heavily by Bellarmine. He ended up going D1, but he was a very low D1. ALL Bellarmine talked with him about was their incredible network of alumnae in business and how guaranteed a great job was for him when he graduated. It was VERY enticing to me as a Dad.
Now, each of us can do the same exercise, only this time our son is Scruggs and he has an offer from Kansas, as well as every top 50 schools with six states of Indiana. How would you look at this as his Dad?
Without knowing what parents, players, advisors, say in the privacy of their homes. To think that we "lost" someone to Butler or Xavier is assuming the school did something to sway their decision. We all know what "assume" means.
Wrong about what? My whole point is missing on these guys hasn't really made that big of a difference. If we're really crying over Joey Brunk & Matt Howard then I'm not sure what to tell you. Guys like Howard & Brunk are a dime a dozen. Just because Purdue offered them & they chose Butler doesn't really mean all that much. But I know a narrative must always be in place for Purdue fans to justify why something hasn't gone our way.
You said Bluiett is the only guy we have lost to Butler or Xavier. That is WRONG.
Painter wanted Gordon Hayward badly, and he chose Butler. He also wanted Brunk, offered Brunk, and Brunk chose Butler.
You were wrong, and yet you keep arguing and looking silly in the process.
We lost an unranked Gordon Hayward & Bluiett. Only two recruits in the Painter era that he's lost to Butler & Xavier that are worth looking back & saying "damn" about.
Brunk isn't anything special.
All schools lose recruits to other schools. That's recruiting for you. Your point to "losing" recruits to Butler & Xavier means nothing. Literally meaningless.
I'm not arguing who is special and who isn't. (And apparently Painter, Izzo, and Crean know less than you about Brunk, but whatever) Just pointing out that your original statement was wrong.
And, who cares if Hayward was ranked or not? Painter and Stevens must have seen something the "experts" didn't.
And Stevens got him because Butler was willing to offer his sister a tennis scholarship whereas Purdue would not. Your line earlier about Painter turning the family off is complete hogwash, but anything to bash Painter.
You are wrong.
And I'm Not bashing Painter. I like Painter, but let's just say his language has turned off some recruits and their families over the years.
I thought it was the Zeller family that listened to one of Painter's practices. His swear words offended their delicate ears.
I also had heard the tennis scholy to his sister was the reason for the howard to Butler move.
That may have been the Purdue/Painter narrative, but from the Recruit's side of things, his language at dinner during Gordon's visit turned off his mother, in particular.
Haywood with his height and ball handling was similar to Hummel. I'm sure Matt knew he would be very good...so did Stevens...
Still confused what "#narrative" was supposed to mean, if anything.
see my post above.
I agree with you that Painter has lost more than one recruit to Xavier and Butler, but how do you know this dinner-with-the-Hayward's information? It had to have been in 2007 or 2008. What did he say that was vulgar?
If that's true, I hope Painter learned from it. That really is a bad reason to lose out on a recruit.
I know a lot of people in Brownsburg.I do not know the specific language that painter used that was offensive. I also know that he was very dismissive of Gordon's desire to major in pharmacy at Purdue, and this also turned off the family. Told him he would not have time to major in pharmacy and also play basketball.
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