do you think it's bad in the NIL and portal world to recruit over players that have been loyal? as an example, Galloway at IU, been a part time starter for 2 years. kid from UK, Reeves who entered draft and then removed his name is now a free agent. would be a definite upgrade and the shooter IU needs to go along with the rest of the talent on the roster. probably make IU a top 5 team. but something wouldn't feel right about it. yet on the flip side a kid can leave at the last minute like the Rutgers guard Spencer and really screw your team over. it's a tricky time for coaches.
recruiting over people
- Thread starter kurt cloverdales
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IU a top five team? Thanks for the laugh!
top 20, top 5 if add a 40 percent from 3, former McDS All American at the 2 guard. would have as talented of a roster as anyone in the country
Barely in the top 25 in June and one player will put you in the top five? Which top five team will you replace?
Winning the summer again. Must be proud.
If IU adds these players they could be a top 5 team. Top 5 in the state
You’re an idiot on this board too!
13 time Offseason Champions !!
Reeves would be a nice add for them, it doesn’t make them top 5 though, it probably gets them in the top 20 range though. If your IU you recruit over Galloway, the goal is to win.
Top 5 team?....hey it's Summer, isn't iu #1??
Kind of like not having any banners at all? You really wanted to go there? 😎 I will give you the title of most NCAA wins without winning a title. That’s one to be proud of
You play your best players! Your current players should realize this and accept this. Experience and loyalty are nice, but players like Gillis and Morton should realize in order to have our best possible team, a younger player should start if they are better! Smith and Loyer beat out more experienced players to start! painter recruited both JJJ. And Holgrem. He didn’t recruit either player with the expectation they would be bench warmers to more experienced players! In today’s environment as a coach you recruit the best possible players. And you don’t worry about who your current starters are. If the player you recruit is better than your existing starter, only a fool for a coach continues to play the lesser player.
Painter also over recruits. He had Gillis at the 4 and recruited Furst and Renn at the same position. Should he have started Renn or Furst over the more experienced but lesser talented Gillis? Or should he have remained loyal to Gillis? That is a question many here have disagreements about.
3-1, so all the experts will say he is obviously the better coach and IU has the better program currently.
Yep, lost to FDU, so all the experts will say IU has the better coach and IU has the better program currently.
.
Yep Purdue has never won a title, so all the experts will say Woodson is obviously the better coach and IU has the better program currently.
I did not start this, but will always debate against others spouting off crap first
IU is nor will not be a top 5 when reality hits. As for recruiting over players, it was done before the NIL and was a common occurence. If I had recruited you, and you had agreed to play for me, I'm immediately going out and recruit someone better for the next year. It's called getting better.
There is no guarantee of playing time. You recruit the best and play the best. That’s what everyone should want, including the guys on the team. As a coach you do everything in your power to get the best out of every player and the best out of the team.
It's also "expected" that the older player bust ass and prove he is better when the season starts. That's his job
Aside from the IU top 5 comment (which was a banger, btw) this is a really interesting post.
I'd couch your question of 'bad' in terms of whether it's good or bad for the program. The upside is that you increase the talent on your roster, the risks are a negative impact on team chemistry (yes, that's still a real thing) and potentially increasing the likelihood of other players transferring.
Most fans, as seen in the responses here, would say that you take the best players you can get regardless. My answer is a bit more nuanced. I agree that in the case of Galloway at IU (Newman last year and Hunter the year before at Purdue would be similar examples) who are borderline starters, you have to take a guy who is a clear upgrade if you can get him. Hopefully you've recruited guys who are team first and realistic about their productivity and they stick around and contribute however they can.
Where I differ is in the view that you should go out and grab guys who may or may not be an upgrade to compete against players who you as a coach believe are good enough to accomplish your goals. Plenty on here would have loved to have seen Painter go out and grab someone to compete with Loyer and Smith and declare it an open competition. That, IMO, is you undermine the trust of your players and lose more guys to the portal. Paint is always going to play the best player but he's not going to bring in guys that aren't the right fit. Is that the right answer? I don't know but we're going to find out in a few months.
This is where IU has fallen short most seasons for the last 30 years, thinking that accumulating talent equates to making a great team. Knight knew better than that, it's fortunate for Purdue that IU's administration and fans don't.
Hunter and Newman are good examples! So was IT. All three were basically recruited over. Rather than accepting a bench role, they all chose to leave. Did any of them elevate their game at their new school?
painter had an awesome 5 and 4. However, that did not prevent him fro recruiting JJJ. And if JJJ had chosen Purdue, I believe he would have become a starter or at least received significant minutes at Purdue! Did JJJ choose to go elsewhere because he thought Painter would remain loyal to his current starter at his position? And that he wouldn’t receive the playing time he wanted to showcase his talent?
And would Painter have been loyal to his starter and make JJJ come off the bench or encourage him to redshirt because of a lack of playing time?
Why did JJJ choose not to come to Purdue? Was it really because of his mother’s influence? Or was it because he truly believed Painter would remain loyal to his current starters and not player the more talented and younger player?
Why do so many one and done players avoid Purdue? Is it because they don’t like Painer’s style of basketball? Or are they more afraid like Newman and Renn he will tell them they will need to redshirt because he’s going to be loyal and give more playing time to his current more experienced players?
As I look at Painter, he has started freshmen. But the vast majority of those freshman who started were never projected as one and done players. When recruited, Tre, Biggie, Edwards, Ivey, Hummel, Edey and all the rest were never projected as one and done prospects.
All the one and done prospects have avoided Painter. Is it because while he may recruit more talented players, he prefers to play the more experienced ones?
I leave you with the question, if IT or Hunter had stayed, would Loyer or Smith have started? Or would Painter have continued to start his more experienced players?
I’ve often stated if a player doesn’t become a star by his sophomore year, he never will.
painter had an awesome 5 and 4. However, that did not prevent him fro recruiting JJJ. And if JJJ had chosen Purdue, I believe he would have become a starter or at least received significant minutes at Purdue! Did JJJ choose to go elsewhere because he thought Painter would remain loyal to his current starter at his position? And that he wouldn’t receive the playing time he wanted to showcase his talent?
And would Painter have been loyal to his starter and make JJJ come off the bench or encourage him to redshirt because of a lack of playing time?
Why did JJJ choose not to come to Purdue? Was it really because of his mother’s influence? Or was it because he truly believed Painter would remain loyal to his current starters and not player the more talented and younger player?
Why do so many one and done players avoid Purdue? Is it because they don’t like Painer’s style of basketball? Or are they more afraid like Newman and Renn he will tell them they will need to redshirt because he’s going to be loyal and give more playing time to his current more experienced players?
As I look at Painter, he has started freshmen. But the vast majority of those freshman who started were never projected as one and done players. When recruited, Tre, Biggie, Edwards, Ivey, Hummel, Edey and all the rest were never projected as one and done prospects.
All the one and done prospects have avoided Painter. Is it because while he may recruit more talented players, he prefers to play the more experienced ones?
I leave you with the question, if IT or Hunter had stayed, would Loyer or Smith have started? Or would Painter have continued to start his more experienced players?
I’ve often stated if a player doesn’t become a star by his sophomore year, he never will.
Bragging about games played a billion years ago, by people you don’t know, who are now in their 50s and 60s or are dead, is the epitome of pathetic.
First of all I do know some and been watching since 1972. What is pathetic is running your mouth with nothing to back it,
I think IT and Hunter left because they both knew that Braden was going to be the starter.
Vince was a star his senior year and was not as a sophomore. One could argue that Zach falls in that same category.
I think you’re close. I think that Painter wouldn’t promise them anything and told him that they have to get better to hold off the incoming freshmen. Maybe we’re saying the same thing.
It’s interesting Painter has a long history of giving freshman starter’s minutes, yet there are so many one and done players who would rather go elsewhere than play for Painter at Purdue. One must wonder if Painter stops recruiting players who declare their intentions of being one and dones in high school or if they just go to places where coaches promise they will be a star and showcased at their schools. I could name at least 5 top 20 prospects that Painter offered early before anybody else noticed and then he seemed to go into the background as they went to IU, MSU, Michigan and Gonzaga. He seemed to go to plan B Rather than make promises he wouldn’t keep. And now he was initially interested in that big man Corey but has seemed to once again back off .
I find it interesting that Painter pursues 1 year transfers, but does not actively pursue one and dones.
I find it interesting that Painter pursues 1 year transfers, but does not actively pursue one and dones.
I would agree. Some of us posters are old and remember the teams before Keady and painter were coaches and we can draw parallels! I went to classes with several of those players. I showed up to class, they didn’t. There is more to Purdue basketball than just the last 10 years! I thought Lee Rose was the best Purdue basketball coach!
Oh really!!?? you’ve been watching since 1972? Wow!!
Honestly, that’s truly an amazing accomplishment. Congrats !!
1 year transfers are often guys that have multiple years of playing time to evaluate them, and want a role on a big time team. One and dones are looking to improve their draft stock, often don't care about being a student, and want to be "featured". I understand why coaches pursue one and done players, but I also appreciate that Painter actively seeks players that fit the program mentally AND physically.
So what is the head to head? How many games has IU won in the tournament in the last decade? How many BT championships does IU have? How many BT tournament championships? IU gets lightning in a bottle 5 times in 100 years and they think they are God's gift to mankind. LOL
Don't we always hear about Painter not making any promises to recruits? Does that apply to current roster starters?
Every player should understand that their playing time is not secure and Painter will always be looking to find someone better. If someone doesn't like it, then transfer. But Painters job is to get the best players possible, not reward someone because they accepted a scholarship.
I think Painter signing David Jenkins Jr last year disproves this theory. DJJ was journeyman, been at 3 different schools, was known as a high volume shooter and scorer. By all accounts, he didn't fit what we think Painter would want in a 1 yr transfer.
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