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recruiting over people

Don't we always hear about Painter not making any promises to recruits? Does that apply to current roster starters?
Every player should understand that their playing time is not secure and Painter will always be looking to find someone better. If someone doesn't like it, then transfer. But Painters job is to get the best players possible, not reward someone because they accepted a scholarship.
Agree, no playing time should be guaranteed. Having said that, if a coach thinks that he has guys at certain positions who are studs I personally think it's unproductive to bring in guys who think they are competing for those starting jobs. If they come in and outperform the incumbent they should start, but to me that is different than guys coming in expecting to start.

It's reasonable to argue otherwise.
 
Agree, no playing time should be guaranteed. Having said that, if a coach thinks that he has guys at certain positions who are studs I personally think it's unproductive to bring in guys who think they are competing for those starting jobs. If they come in and outperform the incumbent they should start, but to me that is different than guys coming in expecting to start.

It's reasonable to argue otherwise.
I want every playing being recruited or transferring in to be expecting to start. If not ,they need to check their competitive juices.
 
I want every playing being recruited or transferring in to be expecting to start. If not ,they need to check their competitive juices.
Said the guy on a message board. Look, you can obviously feel however you want. I've never won a national championship but my experience tells me that 1) team chemistry matters and 2) there's a big difference between guys wanting to start (I agree, you want everyone to want to start) and guys expecting to start and reacting poorly when that doesn't happen.
 
Said the guy on a message board. Look, you can obviously feel however you want. I've never won a national championship but my experience tells me that 1) team chemistry matters and 2) there's a big difference between guys wanting to start (I agree, you want everyone to want to start) and guys expecting to start and reacting poorly when that doesn't happen.
Team chemistry.....meh. We see what we see on the court and in the press conf, we don't see what happens in the locker room or at practice or at the apartment. I'm sure not everyone on the team is enamored with one another.
If a player reacts poorly to not starting, then that's Painters job to manage. I think Painter generally starts who deserves to start but I also think he stays with guys who aren't producing way too long.
 
Team chemistry.....meh. We see what we see on the court and in the press conf, we don't see what happens in the locker room or at practice or at the apartment. I'm sure not everyone on the team is enamored with one another.
If a player reacts poorly to not starting, then that's Painters job to manage. I think Painter generally starts who deserves to start but I also think he stays with guys who aren't producing way too long.
Team chemistry isn’t about liking each other it’s about being willing to go into battle with and for the other guy.

I’m happy for you if you’re never been on a team where shitty attitudes killed the chemistry and feel bad for you if you’ve never played on a team that played for each other.

Any coach worth his salt will tell you that the only way to manage it is to get the right guys on the team and keep the wrong ones off.
 
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Team chemistry.....meh. We see what we see on the court and in the press conf, we don't see what happens in the locker room or at practice or at the apartment. I'm sure not everyone on the team is enamored with one another.
If a player reacts poorly to not starting, then that's Painters job to manage. I think Painter generally starts who deserves to start but I also think he stays with guys who aren't producing way too long.
So basically you want painter to recreate 2022-23 Illinois or Michigan. Bunch of mercenaries out to get theirs. Hard pass.
 
I think Painter signing David Jenkins Jr last year disproves this theory. DJJ was journeyman, been at 3 different schools, was known as a high volume shooter and scorer. By all accounts, he didn't fit what we think Painter would want in a 1 yr transfer.
Jenkins was a journeyman primarily because of coaching changes. He came in and accepted a different role, and was a great mentor to the young guys by all accounts. I think that's why Painter wanted him. That and striking out on a few other targets.
 
Yep Purdue has never won a title, so all the experts will say Woodson is obviously the better coach and IU has the better program currently.
LOL. Has Woodson won any title? A Big Ten title? What’s Woodson’s record in tournaments?
 
Team chemistry isn’t about liking each other it’s about being willing to go into battle with and for the other guy.

I’m happy for you if you’re never been on a team where shitty attitudes killed the chemistry and feel bad for you if you’ve never played on a team that played for each other.

Any coach worth his salt will tell you that the only way to manage it is to get the right guys on the team and keep the wrong ones off.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter, it does. But this is big time sports where for some guys, their financial future is on the line, like generational wealth type money futures. I think that impacts a team but those guys are also necessary because they're so good.
 
So basically you want painter to recreate 2022-23 Illinois or Michigan. Bunch of mercenaries out to get theirs. Hard pass.
Unfortunately, the NCAA has created this environment of free agency and to some extent, you have to be willing to play the new game.
I know some people like to see a player come in as a freshman, develop, stay 4 years and get a degree.
For me at least, I care about winning. And if that means using NIL to lure top talent, so be it. Isn't every 4th year portal transfer essentially a hired gun anyway?
 
Jenkins was a journeyman primarily because of coaching changes. He came in and accepted a different role, and was a great mentor to the young guys by all accounts. I think that's why Painter wanted him. That and striking out on a few other targets.
I agree, but on the surface, before he got to Purdue, he didn't seem like the type of player Painter would go after in the portal. But I also agree that he was in desperation mode at that point and had to take what was left.
 
Unfortunately, the NCAA has created this environment of free agency and to some extent, you have to be willing to play the new game.
I know some people like to see a player come in as a freshman, develop, stay 4 years and get a degree.
For me at least, I care about winning. And if that means using NIL to lure top talent, so be it. Isn't every 4th year portal transfer essentially a hired gun anyway?
So you thought Illinois and Michigan were better than Purdue last year ?
 
I'm not saying it doesn't matter, it does. But this is big time sports where for some guys, their financial future is on the line, like generational wealth type money futures. I think that impacts a team but those guys are also necessary because they're so good.
Yes, agree. My view is that you want a balance. You'll take as many high talent guys who are great program fits as you can get, you can probably live with a couple of guys who are not great fits but have transcendent talent and you fill in the rest with good program guys who are talented enough.
 
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The point that overall, UM is a much better program, but Purdue might occasionally have a better year?
Geez I always have to spell it out for you…

If the hired gun approach didn’t work at programs like Illinois and Michigan last year, why would it work at Purdue ?
 
Geez I always have to spell it out for you…

If the hired gun approach didn’t work at programs like Illinois and Michigan last year, why would it work at Purdue ?
I don't think anyone is calling for a "hired gun approach." Simply calling for more of a balance and willingness to play the game.

Geez, I always have to spell it our for you...
 
Sure they are. Bone said “team chemistry… meh.” Look where Illinois and Michigan got with that approach last year.
Team chemistry does matter, obviously. But, you need talent too.

Last year's team had seemingly great team chemistry, but it still floundered when it mattered most because it lacked playmakers and shot makers.

These things aren't black and white. You need both.
 
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Team chemistry does matter, obviously. But, you need talent too.

Last year's team had seemingly great team chemistry, but it still floundered when it mattered most because it lacked playmakers and shot makers.

These things aren't black and white. You need both.
Everyone with a brain knew last seasons roster was flawed. You better at least have chemistry.
 
Geez I always have to spell it out for you…

If the hired gun approach didn’t work at programs like Illinois and Michigan last year, why would it work at Purdue ?
So because it didn't work for one year, therefore you don't keep trying? Or, do you keep trying the same thing hoping for a different result?

It worked for Miami, yes?
 
Everyone with a brain knew last seasons roster was flawed. You better at least have chemistry.
But, who's fault is it that it's flawed and who's job was it to unflaw it? And what's the fastest, easiest way to fill gaps/plug holes in the roster? The portal and NIL.
 
But, who's fault is it that it's flawed and who's job was it to unflaw it? And what's the fastest, easiest way to fill gaps/plug holes in the roster? The portal and NIL.
So because it didn't work for one year, therefore you don't keep trying? Or, do you keep trying the same thing hoping for a different result?

It worked for Miami, yes?
We don’t have the “resources” of Miami. Still waiting for a big talking booster to step up…
 
Apparently we have enough resources to keep Edey happy. Yes?
Our admin isn't willing to blatantly break the few rules there are revolving NIL, and Miami is?

Current NCAA guidelines say it is illegal to make a deal with a player prior to them joining the team. Obviously this isn't being enforced at this time, but it seems unlikely that Purdue would condone breaking the few guidelines that do exist.
 
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Our admin isn't willing to blatantly break the few rules there are revolving NIL, and Miami is?

Current NCAA guidelines say it is illegal to make a deal with a player prior to them joining the team. Obviously this isn't being enforced at this time, but it seems unlikely that Purdue would condone breaking the few guidelines that do exist.
sure they are, impossible to recruit without discussing nil.
 
Our admin isn't willing to blatantly break the few rules there are revolving NIL, and Miami is?

Current NCAA guidelines say it is illegal to make a deal with a player prior to them joining the team. Obviously this isn't being enforced at this time, but it seems unlikely that Purdue would condone breaking the few guidelines that do exist.
Quit acting like Purdue morally superior to everyone else. If you don't think Painter and the NIL people are in close contact, I don't know what to tell you.
 
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Apparently we have enough resources to keep Edey happy. Yes?
Yes. But a lot of that money is earmarked by businesses specifically for Edey. It’s not all fungible cash that can be redirected elsewhere.

I.e when he leaves we won’t have $1 million in “cap space”.
 
Yes. But a lot of that money is earmarked by businesses specifically for Edey. It’s not all fungible cash that can be redirected elsewhere.

I.e when he leaves we won’t have $1 million in “cap space”.
Has it been disclosed how much Edeys NIL deal is worth and who the sources are?
 
But, who's fault is it that it's flawed and who's job was it to unflaw it? And what's the fastest, easiest way to fill gaps/plug holes in the roster? The portal and NIL.
Agree that it's Painter's fault (although I also give him much more credit than you for other areas). Just my opinion, I could be wrong, but I think once MP missed on those couple high profile guards (Pack and the kid from Iowa State) he viewed last season as a development year. I'm sure that he knew that Zach would be very good but I doubt he would have predicted that he would be NPOY good.

Obviously that take was wrong and Zach and the team ended up being much better than that but if you think you can be competitive with two freshmen in the back court but don't think you're going to make a big NCAAT run regardless, it makes sense to me to roll with the young guys rather than bring in a bunch of portal guys. We'll see if it pays dividends this year, I hope so but who knows.
 
The point that overall, UM is a much better program, but Purdue might occasionally have a better year?
IMO it depends on your definition. If I'm a coach and am offered the head job at Michigan and at Purdue, I would view the Michigan job as having an easier path to going to FF's and winning a NC, so from that view I agree with you, UM has the better program.

If I were to bet my money as to whether Purdue and MP or UM and Howard and / or whoever replaces him will have more success (regular season and NCAAT) over the next five to ten years I'd have a hard time betting against Purdue. Yes, I'm biased, but I suspect that if you asked that question to folks who really know college basketball the responses would be at worst, fairly split. I think very few would say that UM is clearly positioned for greater success in that time period.
 
Agree that it's Painter's fault (although I also give him much more credit than you for other areas). Just my opinion, I could be wrong, but I think once MP missed on those couple high profile guards (Pack and the kid from Iowa State) he viewed last season as a development year. I'm sure that he knew that Zach would be very good but I doubt he would have predicted that he would be NPOY good.

Obviously that take was wrong and Zach and the team ended up being much better than that but if you think you can be competitive with two freshmen in the back court but don't think you're going to make a big NCAAT run regardless, it makes sense to me to roll with the young guys rather than bring in a bunch of portal guys. We'll see if it pays dividends this year, I hope so but who knows.
I totally agree. I do think Painter knew that last year was a rebuilding year and when he didn't get Pack, he probably was just banking on getting guys more experience. Then, all the sudden, we're spanking Duke and Gonzaga and expectations changed.
You're also correct that freshman guards also usually don't translate into deep tourney runs.
 
IMO it depends on your definition. If I'm a coach and am offered the head job at Michigan and at Purdue, I would view the Michigan job as having an easier path to going to FF's and winning a NC, so from that view I agree with you, UM has the better program.

If I were to bet my money as to whether Purdue and MP or UM and Howard and / or whoever replaces him will have more success (regular season and NCAAT) over the next five to ten years I'd have a hard time betting against Purdue. Yes, I'm biased, but I suspect that if you asked that question to folks who really know college basketball the responses would be at worst, fairly split. I think very few would say that UM is clearly positioned for greater success in that time period.
That's a tough one....Purdue has arguably one of the best home court environments in all of college hoops. People love Mackey and I assume the players love playing there. I think Purdue has a lot to offer a new coach, not only in terms of support and facilities, but also the regional talent pool, etc.
It will be interesting to see what happens at MSU when Izzo leaves in the next year or two. I view MSU and Purdue in very similar situations as far as competing against the name brand (iu or UM) in the state.
 
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