Question RE Marquis Munoz and Star Ratings

[FLBoiler75]

OK, to begin with my understanding of how players are rated is a lot like looking at a Ouija board.

Munoz's statistics are impressive and he played for a good school (Lafayette Jeff - my alma mater) in class 6A. I know he is not the fastest dude out there but why isn't he at least a 3 star recruit with offers other than Marian College? Heck, Dustin Keller was a 2 star WR out of Jeff and went on to become an All American TE and very good TE in the pros until injuries side-tracked him. What makes Munoz less attractive than some 3 and 4 star recruits with top line offers.

 

[tenwest]

OK, to begin with my understanding of how players are rated is a lot like looking at a Ouija board.

Munoz's statistics are impressive and he played for a good school (Lafayette Jeff - my alma mater) in class 6A. I know he is not the fastest dude out there but why isn't he at least a 3 star recruit with offers other than Marian College? Heck, Dustin Keller was a 2 star WR out of Jeff and went on to become an All American TE and very good TE in the pros until injuries side-tracked him. What makes Munoz less attractive than some 3 and 4 star recruits with top line offers.

Ask the Anthrops.

 

[nat100]

OK, to begin with my understanding of how players are rated is a lot like looking at a Ouija board.

Munoz's statistics are impressive and he played for a good school (Lafayette Jeff - my alma mater) in class 6A. I know he is not the fastest dude out there but why isn't he at least a 3 star recruit with offers other than Marian College? Heck, Dustin Keller was a 2 star WR out of Jeff and went on to become an All American TE and very good TE in the pros until injuries side-tracked him. What makes Munoz less attractive than some 3 and 4 star recruits with top line offers.

High school numbers are irrelevant. Coaches (and the recruiting services) evaluated him and didnt think he projected as a scholarship player at the next level.

 

[Dandelion1972]

Ask the Anthrops.

Yeah, Jackson told me that he "didn't get ANY other offers, not even Trine."

 

[FirstDownB]

Stars are more about potential and how a player projects at the next level than high school accomplishments. Good hands can help you pile up stats as a high school receiver, but you have to be able to create separation in D1. Some guys plateau at age 18 due to athletic limitations (size, speed, quickness, strength, etc.). Jackson is a fine example. Good kid, reliable, but there is little evidence of improvement since his first game in 2017.

 

[Purdue85]

Stars are more about potential and how a player projects at the next level than high school accomplishments. Good hands can help you pile up stats as a high school receiver, but you have to be able to create separation in D1. Some guys plateau at age 18 due to athletic limitations (size, speed, quickness, strength, etc.). Jackson is a fine example. Good kid, reliable, but there is little evidence of improvement since his first game in 2017.

Hmmmmmmmm...............

Now, who else could that describe.........

 

[jindy]

Hmmmmmmmm...............

Now, who else could that describe.........

Well, had he said 20/21 years old I'd know exactly.

 

[BlkGoldHoops]

Stars are more about potential and how a player projects at the next level than high school accomplishments. Good hands can help you pile up stats as a high school receiver, but you have to be able to create separation in D1. Some guys plateau at age 18 due to athletic limitations (size, speed, quickness, strength, etc.). Jackson is a fine example. Good kid, reliable, but there is little evidence of improvement since his first game in 2017.

Yeah 47 catches in the Big 10 sucks. Jackson would have been just as productive in 18 and 19 if he were asked to be. Rondale obviously was the feature. It’s not like Anthrop couldn’t have done it if asked.

 

[FirstDownB]

Yeah 47 catches in the Big 10 sucks. Jackson would have been just as productive in 18 and 19 if he were asked to be. Rondale obviously was the feature. It’s not like Anthrop couldn’t have done it if asked.

Nobody said sucks. I paid him his dues. But do try to be objective.

 

[Wolegib]

a lot of stars are given to players who attend certain all star camps. if you don't attend the camps where the scouts are, they tend to ignore you. an thus, no, or low rating.

 

[BlkGoldHoops]

Nobody said sucks. I paid him his dues. But do try to be objective.

What makes you think he hasnt improved? Just because his reception total went down? Do you know if he has improved or not? His blocking? Route running? And if so , on what basis? You said there was little evidence of his improving from 2017. So based on what? Me thinks you are only looking at # of receptions.

 

[FirstDownB]

What makes you think he hasnt improved? Just because his reception total went down? Do you know if he has improved or not? His blocking? Route running? And if so , on what basis? You said there was little evidence of his improving from 2017. So based on what? Me thinks you are only looking at # of receptions.

I'm not going to spend time detailing shortcomings of a Purdue player, but yes, both the stats and the eyeball test. Another poster brought him up as an example of a good local high school receiver who didn't attrack the D1 offers, and I agreed that might be a helpful comp for the OP. But I hope he has an outstanding Senior year!

 

[BlkGoldHoops]

I'm not going to spend time detailing shortcomings of a Purdue player, but yes, both the stats and the eyeball test. Another poster brought him up as an example of a good local high school receiver who didn't attrack the D1 offers, and I agreed that might be a helpful comp for the OP. But I hope he has an outstanding Senior year!

The eyeball test. I’m sure your eyeball test is much greater than Coach Sheps practices and that’s why he keeps putting ol Jackson on the field. Lol. I hope they all have a great year. BoilerUp!

 

[FirstDownB]

The eyeball test. I’m sure your eyeball test is much greater than Coach Sheps practices and that’s why he keeps putting ol Jackson on the field. Lol. I hope they all have a great year. BoilerUp!

Sorry to hit your hot button here. Thought this was common knowledge. Where is Shep going to have him on the depth chart this fall with Bell, Wright, Moore, Anderson, Sheffield, Sparks, Carr, Rice, and Yaseen healthy?

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Well, had he said 20/21 years old I'd know exactly.

Hey we wouldn’t have to worry about said player getting busted for underage drinking!

 

[BlkGoldHoops]

Sorry to hit your hot button here. Thought this was common knowledge. Where is Shep going to have him on the depth chart this fall with Bell, Wright, Moore, Anderson, Sheffield, Sparks, Carr, Rice, and Yaseen healthy?

Not a hot button. Just asked you to back up your comment about him not improving from 2017 and you said “ my eyeball test”. Not real deep there. And to answer your question, the fact is that all those receivers being healthy is pretty irrelevant when only a few of them play slot. You know there ARE different WR positions right? Anthrop will be behind Rondale, and in front of Sheffield and MMoore. All the other ones are outside Receivers.

 

[jindy]

Hey we wouldn’t have to worry about said player getting busted for underage drinking!

True. Wouldn't want him buying for everyone else though!

 

[Dandelion1972]

Sorry if this was posted elsewhere, but here's an interview with Marquis Munoz :

https://post.futurimedia.com/waskam/playlist/32/listen-2537.html?cb=1582204006.210981

 

[FirstDownB]

Not a hot button. Just asked you to back up your comment about him not improving from 2017 and you said “ my eyeball test”. Not real deep there. And to answer your question, the fact is that all those receivers being healthy is pretty irrelevant when only a few of them play slot. You know there ARE different WR positions right? Anthrop will be behind Rondale, and in front of Sheffield and MMoore. All the other ones are outside Receivers.

I should probably just let this go, but as a point of order, you objected to my statement that there wasn't any evidence of improvement and have not yourself provided evidence to the contrary. I didn't say it was impossible that he has improved, I said there was no evidence. There is a difference.

Going down that rabbit hole, we can only go by stats and by watching the games since they aren't publishing 40 times, strength numbers, etc. And regardless, what is ultimately important is what happens on Saturdays. Being 5th on the team in receiving yards and 7th in ypc as a Rs-Jr isn't very convincing. Not in a year when the seas of opportunity parted due to injury.

And yes, I understand the difference in the receiver positions. I included the entire group because Jackson can line up in different places when there is a need and Rondale demands the majority of snaps in the slot. But those positions are stocked with more talented players also. Specific to the slot, with Rondale, Sheffield, and Marcellus all having blazing speed, I don't see him getting a lot of touches. Brohm wants big plays and explosive play-makers.

I won't hold his kick and punt return stats against him because our entire unit and schemes were just awful. But at some point, an exceptional athlete will break one on his own.

Can we just agree to the basic premise, which is not really about Jackson at all. Simply that lightly recruited guys are generally lightly recruited because their athletic abilities (the so-called ceiling) will only take them so far? I hated going down this rabbit hole, because I really appreciate the guy and his effort. And I intentionally didn't use the New Pal kid as an example because I knew this exact thing would happen.

 

[BlkGoldHoops]

I should probably just let this go, but as a point of order, you objected to my statement that there wasn't any evidence of improvement and have not yourself provided evidence to the contrary. I didn't say it was impossible that he has improved, I said there was no evidence. There is a difference.

Going down that rabbit hole, we can only go by stats and by watching the games since they aren't publishing 40 times, strength numbers, etc. And regardless, what is ultimately important is what happens on Saturdays. Being 5th on the team in receiving yards and 7th in ypc as a Rs-Jr isn't very convincing. Not in a year when the seas of opportunity parted due to injury.

And yes, I understand the difference in the receiver positions. I included the entire group because Jackson can line up in different places when there is a need and Rondale demands the majority of snaps in the slot. But those positions are stocked with more talented players also. Specific to the slot, with Rondale, Sheffield, and Marcellus all having blazing speed, I don't see him getting a lot of touches. Brohm wants big plays and explosive play-makers.

I won't hold his kick and punt return stats against him because our entire unit and schemes were just awful. But at some point, an exceptional athlete will break one on his own.

Can we just agree to the basic premise, which is not really about Jackson at all. Simply that lightly recruited guys are generally lightly recruited because their athletic abilities (the so-called ceiling) will only take them so far? I hated going down this rabbit hole, because I really appreciate the guy and his effort. And I intentionally didn't use the New Pal kid as an example because I knew this exact thing would happen.

Yeah, fair enough. We can move on. I’m always just interested when the average fan makes a comment regarding if a player has improved or not. Always curious how you actually know , and what metrics you use for your basis. I guess yours is his stats have dropped and your eyeball test. And I guess as my point of order, strength and speed stats are published on a big board in the weight room, and he has improved every year. Objective data always better than subjective eyeball tests. As for your evaluation of incoming talent, don’t be surprised if Carr and MMoore redshirt.

 

[FirstDownB]

Yeah, fair enough. We can move on. I’m always just interested when the average fan makes a comment regarding if a player has improved or not. Always curious how you actually know , and what metrics you use for your basis. I guess yours is his stats have dropped and your eyeball test. And I guess as my point of order, strength and speed stats are published on a big board in the weight room, and he has improved every year. Objective data always better than subjective eyeball tests. As for your evaluation of incoming talent, don’t be surprised if Carr and MMoore redshirt.

I wish the average fan had more visibility to the behind the scenes stuff like weight room progress. Maybe there would be fewer incorrect assumptions. If a premium membership came with things like that, expert (i.e., current or former D1 player or coach) breakdown of game film, and harder hitting interviews instead of coachspeak, I would jump on it in a second.

I actually really appreciate you taking up for Jackson in this discussion. I hope he has an awesome senior campaign!

 

[BlkGoldHoops]

I wish the average fan had more visibility to the behind the scenes stuff like weight room progress. Maybe there would be fewer incorrect assumptions. If a premium membership came with things like that, expert (i.e., current or former D1 player or coach) breakdown of game film, and harder hitting interviews instead of coachspeak, I would jump on it in a second.

I actually really appreciate you taking up for Jackson in this discussion. I hope he has an awesome senior campaign!

Meant nothing by it. I like good debate on this board , as long as it stays respectful ( and admittedly I have failed at that sometimes) , because at the end of the day we all are Boiler Fans. I too am hoping for a big season from him. Hard not to get excited thinking about this potentially explosive offense. Have a great day and #BoilerUp