Purdue vs. Michigan overview

[tjreese]

I don't remember which game it was last year, but IIRC, didn't our perimeter players do some switching on D that seemed to slow them down from making 3s?

Purdue as a "base" switches 1-4 and has at times switched 1-5 with Haarms...depending. When you switch you are trying to keep players in front of you (helps solve the slower players dribble contain) AND keep a defender on the ball to contend. Without the rule emphasis..it was more of a hedge and to not switch if able. Years ago ball screens were considered a bit of a liability because of double teams and more physical play allowed. Protecting the perimeter player has changed that to allow a more offensive game. Rarely , but once in a while we will see a team double the ball on the 1-5 screens.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Purdue as a "base" switches 1-4 and has at times switched 1-5 with Haarms...depending. When you switch you are trying to keep players in front of you (helps solve the slower players dribble contain) AND keep a defender on the ball to contend. Without the rule emphasis..it was more of a hedge and to not switch if able. Years ago ball screens were considered a bit of a liability because of double teams and more physical play allowed. Protecting the perimeter player has changed that to allow a more offensive game. Rarely , but once in a while we will see a team double the ball on the 1-5 screens.

One of my coaches essentially said that the guy defending the one setting the pick should jump out and MAUL the dribbler until his guy could get back to double-team. Do whatever you had to do to make him STOP and not able to make a shot or a pass. hmmm ... back in the day ...

 

[areshound]

Also what if Wagner starts the game off with 2 or 3 misses from three with Haas guarding him? You can kind of assume Haas has already scored and/or created fouls on him on the other end of the floor. To me I like Haas' chances of hitting the bunnies around the rim then I do Wagner hitting unconscious from 3. Not saying he can't get hot but I like Haas against him more then 50% of the time. If he gets hot then Haarms is our answer for that but Haas will do damage on the other end in scoring and drawing fouls. My main concern really is how early and how often will Wagner or someone else flop and Haas gets in trouble with offensive fouls.

 

[mryankee2397]

as i recall, last year their bigs killed us up there from the outside but in the btt they didnt do much and we still lost. just have to see how this year plays out. different year and different players

 

[Dakota Girl]

I haven't got to watch Michigan, but very familiar with Rahkman, Duncan and Wagner...and a bit with Simpson. "IF" Michigan does not have 5 that will play together out on the court...Haas can guard the one that is not a threat out on the court as needed. Last year Michigan had 2 bigs that could go out on the court AND play inside and THAT was a problem. If Michigan has two like that..it is still a problem, but if not....Purdue should be better defending Michigan

Good point. I forgot that one of them jumped to the Association.
If they have to play a guy that has to be inside twelve to score we will be better n very good situation on D. Maybe even let’s use both Haarms and Haas together as we have seen lately. It would be good to learn just how agile of a player Haarms can stop.

 

[tjreese]

Good point. I forgot that one of them jumped to the Association.
If they have to play a guy that has to be inside twelve to score we will be better n very good situation on D. Maybe even let’s use both Haarms and Haas together as we have seen lately. It would be good to learn just how agile of a player Haarms can stop.

yes...and if both bigs are playing one is still in position to board or with only one big...it could be a big helping and vince still trying to board. Unless they have a similar to ability of Wilson and Purdue shoots okay behind the arc...Purdue should win. It is the TWO bookends that troubled Purdue together on D and the fear that either could stroke it behind the arc...

 

[blockm2]

true, but my emphasis was and qualified with a don't know their personnel "IF" they have a Wilson. They must play 5 that puts Haas in space of he will back off. Haas does not have to guard anyone on the perimeter that is not a threat. You said Haas can't guard anyone...and I can't say you are wrong because I do not know their personnel and "who" will be a Wilson.

I guess what I'm saying as a Michigan fan is that Haas can't guard anyone Michigan will have on the floor because they are all 3 point threats. The only one that will play and isn't is backup 7'1" center Jon Teske.

 

[klmLB]

Also what if Wagner starts the game off with 2 or 3 misses from three with Haas guarding him? You can kind of assume Haas has already scored and/or created fouls on him on the other end of the floor. To me I like Haas' chances of hitting the bunnies around the rim then I do Wagner hitting unconscious from 3. Not saying he can't get hot but I like Haas against him more then 50% of the time. If he gets hot then Haarms is our answer for that but Haas will do damage on the other end in scoring and drawing fouls. My main concern really is how early and how often will Wagner or someone else flop and Haas gets in trouble with offensive fouls.

This. Wagner's play will dictate. Haas will start and if Wagner is held in check, stay the normal rotation course. If Wagner starts to go off (kinda like DJ Wilson did against us), expect Haarms to get more minutes than normal.

 

[tjreese]

I guess what I'm saying as a Michigan fan is that Haas can't guard anyone Michigan will have on the floor because they are all 3 point threats. The only one that will play and isn't is backup 7'1" center Jon Teske.

Thank you ...the clarification that all 5 are three point threats is different than can't guard anyone on Michigan. It will be interesting to see the guy that took the place of Wilson and how this contrast plays out. Obviously if all 5 playing are hitting all game...that will be a huge problem for Purdue. If not scoring easy baskets by Haas will be enough

 

[LonestarBoilerFan]

Here is how we compare statistically based on the Big Ten Web site info. There has been a lot of talk about Michigan's 3-PT shooting. They are #1 in 3-Pt Shots made but they have also shot 39 more than any other team in the Big Ten (Mich 164-445) compared to Purdue (160-392). We have made almost as many and we are making them at a much higher percentage than Michigan. We need to pressure them on the perimeter, limit turn overs, and bring our energy to the boards and I think we will see favorable results. It is gonna be a great game to watch IMO.

PU UM
Scoring OFF #2 86.1 #9 76.9
Scoring DEF #4 63.3 #2 61.6
Scoring Margin #2 +22.8 #3 +15.3
FT % #2 .753 #13 .647
FG % #2 .502 #5 .487
FG % DEF #2 .376 #8 .423
3-PT % #2 .408 #7 .369
3-PT % DEF #3 .317 #7 .336
Rebound OFF Avg #6 38.8 #12 33.8
Rebound DEF Avg #8 32.9 #4 32.1
Rebound Margin #4 +5.8 #12 +1.7
Blocked Shots #3 6.2 #12 3.4
Assists #3 17.8 #5 16.4
Steals #6 6.4 #4 7.4
TO Margin #7 +1.6 #2 +4.5
ASS/TO Ratio #4 1.4 #1 1.6
OFF Rebounds #11 9.8 #13 8.9
DEF Rebounds #3 29.0 #11 24.9
DEF Rebound % #9 .722 #2 .754
OFF Rebound % #9 .310 #14 .271
3-PT FG Made #2 9.4 #1 9.6

 

[LonestarBoilerFan]

Sorry that the data is so hard to read. When I posted it removed all the spacing I took 10mins to add. LOL!

 

[nagemj02]

Shut down WAGNER!

...AND MATTHEWS!

Really, they need to contain the 3PT shot in general if they're to win this one.

 

[nagemj02]

Sorry that the data is so hard to read. When I posted it removed all the spacing I took 10mins to add. LOL!

I know what you mean. It can be frustrating, haha.

 

[02Boilermaker]

I know what you mean. It can be frustrating, haha.

It won't make it any easier to cut & paste into here; but if you two are ever looking for national along with the B1G ranks, the NCAA stats site provides a nice 1-page snapshot for every team. Here's the link: http://stats.ncaa.org/rankings/ranking_summary

You have to make a couple of selections in the drop down boxes (mens' bball->Div I->team select), but it will then spit out the rankings among all NCAA teams and among the conference. At the bottom it also lists individual players on that team & their rankings (if among about the top 250).

Now I'm really wishing they had a team compare sheet that would allow someone to replicate what LsBF posted above.

 

[LonestarBoilerFan]

It won't make it any easier to cut & paste into here; but if you two are ever looking for national along with the B1G ranks, the NCAA stats site provides a nice 1-page snapshot for every team. Here's the link: http://stats.ncaa.org/rankings/ranking_summary

You have to make a couple of selections in the drop down boxes (mens' bball->Div I->team select), but it will then spit out the rankings among all NCAA teams and among the conference. At the bottom it also lists individual players on that team & their rankings (if among about the top 250).

Now I'm really wishing they had a team compare sheet that would allow someone to replicate what LsBF posted above.

Thanks for the info. That probably would have been easier. Lol!

 

[BuilderBob6]

I have a bad feeling about this game. UM is a good team at home. We could lead by 3 at half, but miss some bunnies, then miss a few 3-pt attempts. Then we turn the ball over. Suddenly we are behind by 10 points and can’t catch a hot shooting Michigan. We might beat them 7/10 games, but this could be one of the 3 we lose.

We are about due. These are kids playing out there, and they can get complacent. We have seen any number of top ranked teams fall in the same way this year. It doesn’t mean Purdue is doomed. It doesn’t mean we are “settlers”. It doesn’t mean that there is any real ceiling on any part of this team. It just means we can still lose any game we are not prepared to play.

Nervous about this one as well. On the other side of the coin, going into Crisler and winning could demonstrate this team is really good.

 

[BuilderBob6]

...AND MATTHEWS!

Really, they need to contain the 3PT shot in general if they're to win this one.

I understand the preoccupation with Wagner.........but he is still working to get back to form after a foot injury. Chances are this game doesn't mirror last year. Nage is right, Matthews is the new guy and very dangerous. Dakota is going to be busy.

 

[big10best]

Glad I have a brand new bottle of Jim Beam for the game tomorrow. BTFU!

 

[lbodel]

One thing that had been mentioned a bit back....is that Vince Edwards has had foul trouble creep up in several of our 'bigger' games this season and has played limited minutes. Not saying we need a 40 minute game out of him like the Maryland game - but would certainly be nice to have the option. He's been a big key for us on the rebounding end.

Also, not that staying out of foul trouble is never an ideal thing in a game - but Haas/Haarms foul issues came up against Nebraska. I'd prefer that be a one time thing!

 

[typeviic]

How the hell are they not in the top 25 with their record, undefeated at home?

 

[BoilerMaker P]

Let's look on the bright side. Last year, Purdue went into Michigan at their place (might have been senior day?) where an emotional team was playing for their NCAA tournament lives, ran into a buzzsaw of bigs hitting pick and pop 3s and blowing it wide open from the start. Purdue settled down, guarded the perimeter much better in 2nd half and even made a little run but the damage was done. Keep in mind, if PJ hits his free throws at the end of regulation, Purdue wins the BTT game as well. I like to think this is another game on the seniors' revenge list. Louisville, Butler, have both been checked off. Michigan needs to be next.

 

[tjreese]

Let's look on the bright side. Last year, Purdue went into Michigan at their place (might have been senior day?) where an emotional team was playing for their NCAA tournament lives, ran into a buzzsaw of bigs hitting pick and pop 3s and blowing it wide open from the start. Purdue settled down, guarded the perimeter much better in 2nd half and even made a little run but the damage was done. Keep in mind, if PJ hits his free throws at the end of regulation, Purdue wins the BTT game as well. I like to think this is another game on the seniors' revenge list. Louisville, Butler, have both been checked off. Michigan needs to be next.

..and I think you are right..in what happened and what will happen

 

[boilerzz]

One thing that had been mentioned a bit back....is that Vince Edwards has had foul trouble creep up in several of our 'bigger' games this season and has played limited minutes. Not saying we need a 40 minute game out of him like the Maryland game - but would certainly be nice to have the option. He's been a big key for us on the rebounding end.

Also, not that staying out of foul trouble is never an ideal thing in a game - but Haas/Haarms foul issues came up against Nebraska. I'd prefer that be a one time thing!

Actually, Vince has had 4 fouls only three times; @ Marquette, Louisville, Rutgers. He only had 1 against Nebraska, 2 against Butler, 1 against NW, 2 @ Maryland, 3 against Arizona. 2 against WKU and 3 against Tennessee.

He's played 34 minutes or more in 4 of Purdue's 5 KenPom Tier A games (Marquette being the exception).

I think because the Rutgers game is fresh, it is perceived as a bigger deal than it has been.

 

[lbodel]

How the hell are they not in the top 25 with their record, undefeated at home?

Look at their schedule.

Their Big Ten schedule so far is:
Wins: IU, Illinois, Iowa (combined 2-11 in the Big Ten)
Losses: Ohio State - which until this past weekend, wasn't high on the radar

Other Losses: LSU, UNC

They have wins against UCLA and Texas - sound good, but both teams are like beating a Marquette - nice wins, but nothing you're gonna go around bragging about this year/signature wins.

I think they could be ranked in the 20-25 range, but their overall resume isn't terribly strong. They are 0-1 against top 25 teams and 2-2 against 25-50 teams.

I think this is what we'll see from a lot of Big Ten: there's not a lot of opportunities for statement wins in the Big Ten this year, so teams will be gunning for us.