Purdue vs IU matchups next year
- Thread starter feulner
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Sorry with the loss of Davis and hanner I think the PU / IU matchup will go the same way this year maybe worse. You shot that % last year from the outside due to an obvious reason. Couldn't be clearer I look forward to seeing you get beat the same way this year. Bryant vs senior hammons....????? Bring it
I don't know how much clearer I can make it then you are outmanned at every position. You hold an edge in point guard and nothing else. The edge you have there isn't even close to the edge we have in the post. With all other players as a toss up as you describe, I tend to lean in the direction of what is known. It's known that our players play better defense then all of your players. We also have much more depth without having to rely on freshman to log minutes. What you may gain in defense from Bryant, will be short lived and still won't overcome the advantage we have on offense versus your defense.
I can run it down player by player for you if you can go a bit further with you analysis then, "I would take Blackmon over Stephens." Stephens can play defense and get streaky at times. At the very least he draws a good defender to the wing and keeps teams from doubling the post. I would personally rather have what he brings more then Blackmons streaky shooting and zero defense. Your Williams over Edwards statement is hilarious to me. Although Williams may be more athletic, nobody thinks he is a better basketball player then Vince. Nobody. That leaves Rojo and Davis. Right, no contest. I left out the post because it isn't even debatable. We still have Hass, Mathias, Smotherman and PJ to come off the bench and play against Holt, Hartman, and your lone backup guard. Once again, advantage Purdue without even playing Taylor or the frosh. I don't see where you actually think you have an advantage unless you think yogi is gonna win all by himself.
Come on Jadeezra! You know Hanner wasn't the answer. If he was, we would have won last year at IU. Davis I was hoping would contribute, but who knows what he could have done coming back from a brain injury.
Oh, and FYI, I told my IU buddy why your brother did (re:Swanigan) and we both got a good chuckle out of it. I'm assuming you're working on getting him back for that one?
See. This right here. It's just a pure blind homer post. Nothing more. I can do it too, watch.
The only place you outman us is at the center. NO place else. Yogi>>>>>>>>>>>>>Any PG you have. JBJ>Stephens. RJ>Mathias. Williams>Edwards. Hammons>Any IU big man. It's known that your players play defense, that's it. Your offense is average AT BEST. You had a cupcake schedule last year in the B10 and benefited. You also benefited from a lack of good bigs in the league as well. Guess what? You'll actually have to play the top of the conference more than once this year. Your biggest advantage got smaller with the additions of Bryant, Stone, Giddens and Davis. Oh and your depth? What depth passed Haas? He's legit and not a step down. Who's next? I don't see anyone. It's pretty clear that many people think Williams is a better basketball player than Vince. Did Vince make any All B10 team? Any? At all? Nope. Williams was Honorable Mention. Pretty sure that means that the media and the coaches think Williams is a better player. Smotherman and PJ aren't anything I would even remotely be concerned with. Your freshman aren't going to contribute next year and the talk of Taylor reminds me of everyone here pumping up Lawson.
K - I'm done going back and forth with you because you're CLEARLY incapable of being anything close to rational. Again, everyone around the country must be insane having IU ranked ahead of Purdue, huh? What could IU possibly have to make them warrant a better ranking? Welp, you're right. They're probably just trolling IU fans, huh? Seriously. Your post is 100% a joke, right?
Are you upset because you once again couldn't give any reason other then so and so is > then so and so, or because you know I'm right with my reasons? Davis will shut down Blackmon and if he gets by he is weak to the rim and Hammons will be there. Stephens only has to equal Johnson. Edwards is a much better "basketball player" then Williams. You won't see any team sag off of Edwards and he is light years ahead of Troy on defense. Nice try though. Bryant will be a mom factor after guarding AJ for 10 minutes and Haas for 10 minutes. I doubt he score much as I have yet to see an IU team under Crean play a low post game. Lots of high post plays looking for a mismatch. Once again, Hammons at the rim. Who knows how well Hill can play and use his experience to help negate some of Yogis effectiveness? But we have backups to throw out there who can shoot such as Mathias who you compare to your starters but will probably come off the bench. PJ is Yogis size but would probably play against your backup whoever that guy is if we even need him.
So can you explain to me what makes you think your players are better? Or can you?
SI? Yuck! I still think that deep down, you want to become a Purdue fan and it's at the last stages of transformation. Your arguments are becoming weaker like the IU blood in your veins. The transfusion is almost complete. You've begun liking the sounds of trains and anvil strikes. Your next son will be named Robbie or E'Twaun. You've visited here so much, it's like home. Suddenly your favorite colors are black and gold. Your wife says you hum Hail Purdue in your sleep. Just give in. The force is strongI'd take JBJ and Johnson over Stephens all day, every day. Mathias has a chance to be a very good player so I'll withhold some judgement but at first cut, I'd still take JBJ and RJ over him as well. Anyway, we'll see what happens soon enough.I was dreading our games against you all last year. This year, I'm looking forward to it. I just can't wait to see this place after the game. It's gonna be awesome.
Oh, here's another link for you. I'm sure these Sports Illustrated are just trolling IU fans for likes though, so don't put much stock into it.
http://www.si.com/college-basketbal...-north-carolina-kentucky-kansas?xid=si_social
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This assumes zero improvement from ANY IU player and clearly all Purdue players are improving through their ceilings. There isn't any reason to try and talk to you about this. You're incapable of having a rational conversation. I'm fine giving credit where credit is due with Purdue players. Clearly you are incapable of doing the same with any IU player.
I said they all improve equally and that's fair as it is an unknown. So we to with what we do know and that is our offense may have been bad at times, but it was pretty decent against your defense. Our defense was also better then your offense. I don't see where either will change enough to move the scales in IUs favor. You obviously don't either and I am starting to see that you just parrot what you read and call it fact. You have shown zero reasons as to why IU is better nor refuted any of the points I laid out.
We were better on both ends of the ball last year and your one player won't be able to change that fact especially when he plays our strongest spot.
I have plenty of reason to believe IU will be better. The Kenpom numbers back it up as well. Look at adjusted defense over the last five years. Look at the two years we had zero legit big man. Is it a coincidence that the defense was awful those years and particularly last year? Three major players from the team with Vonleh who had an adjusted defensive ranking of around 50 IIRC (we were 200+ this year) are still on our team this year. It's no stretch to think our defense will be MUCH better. Plus the freshman to sophomore jump is the biggest, so I would assume JBJ and RJ get better which negates the idea that Davis will automatically shut down JBJ. Bryant played against plenty of the big boys and held his own, no reason to think it's going to be night and day different against Hammons. Nobody on your team will stop Yogi. Doesn't matter who you throw at him. Ziesloft to me is on the same level as Mathias or Stephens offensively and a little worse on defense, but not much. Troy Williams is a better player than Edwards. I don't care what you say, I've provided facts that state so considering Williams made the Honorable Mention and Edwards made no team. Williams is on NBA mock draft boards, Edwards is not. I know you like Edwards, but not everyone agrees with you.
Two of our starters should be better this year. We filled our biggest hole on our roster which will significantly improve our defense (stats back this up that it's likely). We have a candidate for BTPOY and 1st Team All B10 point guard. We had four of the better 3pt shooters in the B10. You won by 4 at IU and that's with the huge hole we had in the middle. And you think it's likely you'll win in Bloomington? Doubtful.
So Williams is better yet when on offense teams sag off of him and on defense he's the first one to run to the other end hoping for a highlight? Doubtful. The award was recognition for his improvement and nothing more. One onmy needs look at stats and games to see who has more impact on the game. You also want to use stats to show how the defense will get better because Yogi and Williams were on the same team that Vonleih was on? You want to point out that year as your defensive prowess?
Try again.
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You won by 4 at IU last year and we shot 5-16 from 3pt range which is well under our average.
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I'm sure Purdue's defense had nothing to do with that.
Hummm... Maybe you might want to rethink your position.
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You won by 4 at IU last year and we shot 5-16 from 3pt range which is well under our average.
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I'm sure Purdue's defense had nothing to do with that.
You think the taller Purdue guards and the IU fatigue factor might have impacted your guards performance?
Hummm... Maybe you might want to rethink your position.
Your argument is terribly flawed. Two of our starters should be better also, by the same rules you are applying to IU players in your argument. Sounds about even to me. Both Matias (now healthy) and Edwards will be much better that their freshman year. Williams might be a better player than Edwards statistically, I can give you that. At least he was last year, when we beat you guys twice. Williams had to do more than Edwards and the statistics betray that. If we assume the same level of development of freshman starters, and we assume the same parity of Edwards to Williams, then the status quo does not change. Purdue beats IU again. At least if games were only played with statistics and "what should happen".
Only the addition of Bryant to IU can change the status quo between the two teams, and I still contend he will not, at least next year. I strongly disagree that Bryant played "with the big boys and held his own". He played in AAU games against other high school boys. That's all. Nothing more. Those are not the kind of athletes he will need to play against in the BIG. You still have a hole in the middle. Donut team at best.
Actually it is just rules...oh the game gets so close when we blur man, zone and match-up...not worried about bryant...worried about calls adn nto hitting shots...
If Purdue gets Swanigan, Purdue wins. If Swanigan isn't here, IU wins. Either way, Purdue wins the B1G this season. IU could be dangerous, really so, if Crean ever made his players play determined defense. With Coach Crean at IU, they're going to get there share [& then some] of 5 star players, but, if you don't couple that with a coach who thinks defense is an obligation, & not an afterthought, there's only so much a team with that destiny can do. Don't unerestimate their talent though, they're still a top 20 team. To those who say, ditch Painter, who[m] would you now replace him with, that's better, proven, & honest? Keep Painter, & hope his 5 star talent recruiting improves soon.
You realize he played in the McDonalds All American game and IIRC, the Jordan Brand game, right? Pretty sure he played plenty of good athletes and good big men. And in AAU he played against the other top centers in his class. Are they not good players? So why do you "strongly disagree" that he's played good competition? Huntington Prep also plays a lot of quality high school teams with high major talent. And let's not act like Hammons was some All American. He was a 2nd Team All B10 guy. I laugh when you say we have a hole in the middle. Williams was statistically better than Edwards because he's the better player. So Edwards is a better shooter, Williams is better all around. And I would still take JBJ and RJ over Mathias and Stephens any day. Both of your guys are average shooters and not terribly athletic. And you still have no point guard. You have a kid that shoots worse than Octeus from 3pt land and has an even assist to turnover ratio in a much weaker conference. PJ Thompson? Don't make me laugh. You have zero point guard and zero scoring. That's why you're getting no love in the preseason and couple that with a much tougher schedule for Purdue and that spells trouble.Your argument is terribly flawed. Two of our starters should be better also, by the same rules you are applying to IU players in your argument. Sounds about even to me. Both Matias (now healthy) and Edwards will be much better that their freshman year. Williams might be a better player than Edwards statistically, I can give you that. At least he was last year, when we beat you guys twice. Williams had to do more than Edwards and the statistics betray that. If we assume the same level of development of freshman starters, and we assume the same parity of Edwards to Williams, then the status quo does not change. Purdue beats IU again. At least if games were only played with statistics and "what should happen".
Only the addition of Bryant to IU can change the status quo between the two teams, and I still contend he will not, at least next year. I strongly disagree that Bryant played "with the big boys and held his own". He played in AAU games against other high school boys. That's all. Nothing more. Those are not the kind of athletes he will need to play against in the BIG. You still have a hole in the middle. Donut team at best.
I think it's safe to say it's gonna be a very good game in Bloomington with a lot on the line for both teams. IU wins.
AJ played a lot of high caliber during his time at Oak Hill, and it still took a year to adjust to the college game. Granted, some offset was due to his own work ethic, but when you aren't going against someone your size consistently, it makes it that much more difficult to compete right away. You play like you practice. Who is going to be that driving force for Bryant in practice everyday? Per snu's own comment, they are going to have to face some better bigs this year.
On a side note, just because one is playing in the McD's ASG, doesn't mean you are going to facing tough competition. Those two teams on the court may be the only ones worst than iu when it comes to defense.
On a side note, just because one is playing in the McD's ASG, doesn't mean you are going to facing tough competition. Those two teams on the court may be the only ones worst than iu when it comes to defense.
Regardless of which guards you would take over which other guards, this is a team game. Edwards or Williams - still it is a team game. The individual components don't matter. You must examine the whole and how it works together. The cold fact is that Purdue's guards play a better game than IU's. Purdue’s front line plays a better game than IU's. You can point to all the statistics you like, but when they met, face-to-face, Purdue beats IU twice. That is the only statistic that really matters when you get down to real hard facts. This year, same kids, same result. Only IU's addition of Bryant, and loss of Periera is different.
How about losing HP? Well he averaged some 24 minutes per game. Thta's a lot for such a denigrated bench player as IU fans now claim he was. His stats aren't impressive, 6.8 pt, 4.3 rb, 1.3 blocks per game. However, considering the guard-scoring orientation of IU game, that is not too bad. It is about what I would expect a good freshman burger boy to get his first year.
Speaking of freshman burger boys, let's look at Bryant. From your response, the second fact that you struggle with is Bryant's competition. In all those Burger games, in all those AAU games, he was playing against HIGH SCHOOL kids. Good competition? Yes. Same as BIG? No. I've watched Bryant's high light videos, and 99% of the time he is shooting over some 5' 9" guard. He is a nice athlete, vaguely reminiscent of Periera. I don't think you wil find anybody in the BIG that quakes in fear of him, and I don't think he will be much more than an adequate replacement for the loss of HP, this year.
Agreed. Basketball is not a series of one on one. It's a team game. While comparing the skills of the players has some merit, it's how they play together that wins or loses games.........as well as the system they play in. Our TEAM defense is what confounded IU in both games. If you can stop the penetration and get Yogi up in the air, rotate and help on the shooters, you can beat IU.Regardless of which guards you would take over which other guards, this is a team game. Edwards or Williams - still it is a team game. The individual components don't matter. You must examine the whole and how it works together. The cold fact is that Purdue's guards play a better game than IU's. Purdue’s front line plays a better game than IU's. You can point to all the statistics you like, but when they met, face-to-face, Purdue beats IU twice. That is the only statistic that really matters when you get down to real hard facts. This year, same kids, same result. Only IU's addition of Bryant, and loss of Periera is different.
How about losing HP? Well he averaged some 24 minutes per game. Thta's a lot for such a denigrated bench player as IU fans now claim he was. His stats aren't impressive, 6.8 pt, 4.3 rb, 1.3 blocks per game. However, considering the guard-scoring orientation of IU game, that is not too bad. It is about what I would expect a good freshman burger boy to get his first year.
Speaking of freshman burger boys, let's look at Bryant. From your response, the second fact that you struggle with is Bryant's competition. In all those Burger games, in all those AAU games, he was playing against HIGH SCHOOL kids. Good competition? Yes. Same as BIG? No. I've watched Bryant's high light videos, and 99% of the time he is shooting over some 5' 9" guard. He is a nice athlete, vaguely reminiscent of Periera. I don't think you wil find anybody in the BIG that quakes in fear of him, and I don't think he will be much more than an adequate replacement for the loss of HP, this year.
You realize that against Purdue he's not going against quality bigs with HS bodies. He starts off with the experienced and vastly improved Hammons for an appetizer and just when he thinks he's seen it all AJH takes a break and in comes a monster like he's never seen before. That is if AJH hasn't put him on the bench in foul trouble already. Haas may not be as quick but he has more strength than anyone else Bryant is likely to see in his entire IU career. Now tell me again how he's played the best and held his own. Or.... come on back with another of your DeLooisernal responses as expected.
The only reason he thinks Bryant has played against the best is because Bryant is going to iu. If he was going anywhere else he would be first in line to say the exact same things being told to him on here.
But you can't honestly tell me that this year won't be a different game. Stan Robinson who is 6'4 or so was guarding Hammons. I mean, come on. We had nobody that could score on the block. We had to adjust our defense to try and mask our hole in the middle. We have a 6'10 kid now with some skill. I doubt he's going to be Cody Zeller or anything, but then again, he won't have to.Regardless of which guards you would take over which other guards, this is a team game. Edwards or Williams - still it is a team game. The individual components don't matter. You must examine the whole and how it works together. The cold fact is that Purdue's guards play a better game than IU's. Purdue’s front line plays a better game than IU's. You can point to all the statistics you like, but when they met, face-to-face, Purdue beats IU twice. That is the only statistic that really matters when you get down to real hard facts. This year, same kids, same result. Only IU's addition of Bryant, and loss of Periera is different.
How about losing HP? Well he averaged some 24 minutes per game. Thta's a lot for such a denigrated bench player as IU fans now claim he was. His stats aren't impressive, 6.8 pt, 4.3 rb, 1.3 blocks per game. However, considering the guard-scoring orientation of IU game, that is not too bad. It is about what I would expect a good freshman burger boy to get his first year.
Speaking of freshman burger boys, let's look at Bryant. From your response, the second fact that you struggle with is Bryant's competition. In all those Burger games, in all those AAU games, he was playing against HIGH SCHOOL kids. Good competition? Yes. Same as BIG? No. I've watched Bryant's high light videos, and 99% of the time he is shooting over some 5' 9" guard. He is a nice athlete, vaguely reminiscent of Periera. I don't think you wil find anybody in the BIG that quakes in fear of him, and I don't think he will be much more than an adequate replacement for the loss of HP, this year.
Dude.....You made your judgement on Bryant based on highlight videos? You don't need to explain anything further. That's hilariously dumb. Go read some of the articles written about the practices leading up to the McDonald's All American game. Those are where most of the real competition is. Go read what was written during that week or about him during AAU or the week of the NBA Top 100. He's played against the best in his class. Look at other kids like Sullinger, or Zeller, or Vonleh, or hell even that big white kid from Illinois a couple years ago. Freshman can come in and immediately impact the game especially the highly ranked kids. I think you need to understand that the highly ranked kids are (typically) more college ready than someone who may be a low 4* kid.
Do you say the same about Diamond Stone? Do you think that kid hasn't played much competition or nobody will "quake in fear of him?" He's another 6'10 kid heading to Maryland. He's going to be a beast. Or what about Daniel Giddens at OSU? I think he's going to be a big impact for OSU next year. He's a big with some skill which is something they were lacking the last couple years. I think you have a hard time looking at other recruits and making a reasonable judgement about them. You see how guys like JJ or Hammons have taken time to develop and you naturally think that's just how things go. However, IU has had two highly ranked big men come through and have produced right away and the B10 has had a number of them as well. Sure there is a learning curve, but not anything close to what you're thinking and quite frankly I find your analysis of Bryant pretty funny considering you use highlight videos as the source of your judgement. I mean get real. The kid doesn't have to put up 15 and 10 a night. That's what I don't think you get. Scoring isn't going to be his main focus. He'll need to play solid defense without fouling, rebound for us and he'll need to be able to score on the block in a one on one situation. He needs to be at least a threat to score down low which we didn't have, at all, last year. I have no doubts he will be.
Losing HP definitely hurts. He was going to be a nice bench player who got some good minutes for us but lets pump the brakes on the kid. I don't think it's going to be hard, at all, for Bryant to put up numbers that will surpass Perea's best year as well as play better defense which is huge. I don't think anyone here has ever thought anything good about Perea until he left and now he was some sort of vital player on our team. He was a role player at best. His stats don't lie. HP was losing minutes to Holt toward the end of the year as well. His loss hurts, but it's not critical.
Well actually, a lot of the top ranked kids play pretty tough competition in AAU, NBA camps and the All Star games. So.........Looks like you're wrong again. Kids like Stone, Davis at MSU and Giddens are all going to be very tough this coming year. They're all freshman. They're going to be instant impact kids.
Another post from Kessel with absolutely zero fact to it. Awesome post man.
I'll give you Hammons will 100% have experience on him, and that matters a lot. But the "vastly improved?" Where did this come from? He's improved slightly from year to year, but vastly? Hardly. If he was "vastly" improved he would be in the NBA right now.
Well he's gone up against Stone, Zimmerman, Swanigan and Giddens I know for sure. All of those guys are going to be players right away. And let's pump the breaks a bit on your front court. They're big but let's not act like they're going to be two lottery picks....
And your idiotic homer posts continue. I mean are you seriously so dense that you can't grasp that no one cares what you think, no one buys what you are selling and the majority on here think you are a trolling tool?
Let me enlighten your dumbass. Hammons IS vastly improved over the kid that arrived on campus as a freshman. Take you candy striped glasses off for just a couple of minutes and you may understand what I posted. If you want to argue this then as much as you love to post on here I'm about to pull the plug on the time it takes to read your drivel.
Agree to disagree then. If he was vastly improved, he would be in the NBA. No question.
Not even remotely true. AJH would most likely be a 4 in the NBA and while he HAS vastly improved he needs to improve certain skills to play that spot.
But then again this is just typical you. If he played for iu you'd be all over him and his improvement, but since he plays for someone else you are quick to discount it. Nothing new from you and your biased homer posts.
Stumpy, er, Yogi was a 5 star coming in. If he's improved as much as you contend how come he's not in the NBA???
Just because AJ didn't choose to enter the draft, it doesn't mean he wouldn't have been drafted. It means he feels he can do better if he improves certain aspects of his game. He is vastly improved and you will be giddy if Bryant becomes half the player AJ has become.
Define all around game. You say Willams is a better all around player and I'm confused as to what he does better then Edwards? Edwards frosh numbers are all better then Williams frosh numbers. Other then jumping, I can't think of another aspect of a player that Williams is better at. He can't shoot, he turns the ball over when he drives. He makes horrible decisions, he plays zero defense and doesn't play a team game. What are these all around player qualities you see they are better then Edwards?
He's much flasher and knows how to play to the crowd, which might get you on Sports Center. IU has way to many guys that like to be showcased on Sports Center.
Well he's gone from the B10 All Freshman team all the way to 1st Team All B10. Pretty sure that's improvement. He's got some limitations to his size. Not hard to go look at his stats and see improvement.
Not really considering we have put two big men in the lottery. I don't think Hammons has really improved vastly. He's gotten better, but not significantly. He could dominate the B10 but he hasn't. Again, if he was significantly better he would be in the NBA right now. He wouldn't even break the first round if he declared this year. Not sure that's going to change too much. He may sneak into the first round if he has an outstanding year. I would guess he's still going to be a second rounder.
I think Williams did a lot of the little things last year. He wasn't the best shooter but he didn't hunt his shots. He fell more into the roll Crean wanted him in last year. His freshman year he was way out of control. He was much better (still needs to get better) last year. In my opinion, his overall game is much better than Edwards'.
Again, you're not going to convince me Edwards is better and I'm not going to convince you. No harm in agreeing to disagree.
Nonsense. Hammons' defensive presence, motor, and skill have improved/developed VASTLY. As Reggie Jackson said "he is the straw that stirs (Purdue's) drink".
Would rather have Troy Williams than Edwards, but would, without hesitation, take Hammons over either of them for the upcoming year.
And this response is just more evidence why you're viewed as such a joke on here. Again, if he was wearing iu colors I have no doubt you would put him in the top 10 in the draft. But since he plays at Purdue he is a second rounder.
It's so obvious that you are such a homer it is beyond laughable anymore.
FWIW, I am a big fan of Hammons' game, and...
I think the draft combines would be hugely important for a guy like him. Soft hands, NBA length, a bit enigmatic. If he asserted himself during the NBA combines, he'd be a guaranteed first rounder. If his performance played into the negative side of his reputation, maybe not.
If you had any facts to back up your claim, I wouldn't have any problem if I agree with you. But you don't provide anything other then vague quips like, "He fell into the role Crean wanted him to play". I figured when you said all around player, you had several different reasons you think he's better. I only see his quickness as better. Every other thing a basketball player works on, Edwards is better at. I don't have some hatred of IU that makes me thinks all of their players suck. You have some nicely rated players out of high school, with some solid skills. But as a team, these players always seem to underachieve. So try to convince me with some sound logic perhaps backed up with some facts and perhaps I will become Williams biggest fan.
I'll try:
Williams has a very high shooting % (even from 3pt, though his attempts were limited). His numbers in all categories dramatically improved as last year went on. He stunk against Purdue, but that was one of the very few games he was handled as the season progressed. His defensive awareness needs major work, but his pts per game, assists per minute, and rebounds per minute were darn good.
I think the other thing that cannot be overlooked is his ability to 'get his own shot' and to change the in-game dynamics though ultra athletic plays. His wow factor fires up teammates and the crowd in a big way. He is still a work in progress, but he's already an impact player at the college level, albiet one who still has considerable rough edges.
He can be as good as he wants to be. But does he want it enough to put in the work himself because to be as improved as Oladipo was he'll have to do the work himself. His coach is a recruiter of but not a developer of talent.
