Purdue players and national anthem
- Thread starter TC4THREE
- Start date
I wasn't trying to provide a counter-point to your view as much as I was just trying to address the general idea you were discussing. I think I pretty much agree with what you said. Was just adding my own words to it.
That may be true but how many of the "victims" are putting down their weapons when told to do so? Compliance would go a long way in fixing the problem. Yes, some are victims. I'm siding with law enforcement. They're job is split second decisions. And truthfully in that situation I think prudence dictates cooperating with the law. Some of these people have records a mile long and are still made out to be victims. If the officer says stop, then stop. If the officer says drop your weapon then drop the damn weapon. Nothing good comes from not obeying these people especially in a stress filled situation. Fire away.
I've been a long time reader but have never decided to create an account until now. After reading this thread there has been a lot of talk over this sensitive topic. Being only 18, I maybe not have the experience as some of you guys do, but I've seen/experienced a fair share of society.
People need to realize whether they want to believe it or not, is that a Caucasian male's life is very different from an African American male's life in this country. Colin Kapernick may have approached this issue a little boneheaded (wearing police pig socks in practice, sitting rather than kneeling during the national anthem), but the bottom line is he has grown through this process of when he first expressed his opinions on police corruption/brutality. And not just towards blacks, but also minority's groups in general. Though he faltered in the beginning on how to handle his emotions, his message has always been the same. For those who don't know what his message is you can find it in this link: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-national-anthem/
No one is perfect, and just because he has been given the opportunity to play football and become very wealthy, doesn't mean he doesn't/ hasn't face(d) oppression and racism in his life. He's not just speaking for himself, but the millions of people in this country who feel there is a glaring problem. Kaepernick has stated multiple times he's not about disrespecting the military, but people think the flag and the military go hand in hand. The flag represents the nations values, beliefs, and people as a WHOLE. Many view it as disrespecting the military, but many don't see the flag as symbolizing the military at all. I respect those who lay down their lives as I've had family serve, but if someone wants to not stand during an anthem, they have that right to. A nation should not protest the protest just because they don't agree, but understand why he's protesting and find a way to help solve these issues. People wouldn't protest in the first place unless there was actual problems. I don't think anyone can deny there have been unrighteous deaths of innocent people by police (not just blacks, but all races).And I'm not trying to take away from the good officers out there as I know some personally who are very respectful people. But at the same time no action has been taken within the Nations Police system as a whole to right the wrongs. In my eyes I see it as people either turning a blind eye because they would rather not do the right thing OR refusing to acknowledge there's a problem in the first place. I understand many cops do not feel safe, but that's all people seem to be focusing on. Millions of civilians don't feel safe. I sometimes can't help but not feel safe if I get pulled over for speeding and reach for my wallet. I've had a gun pointed in my face for that before. So far this year there have been 791 deaths by police and it's still only September. Of course some people probably sealed their fate by acting aggressively towards police but no one can say all those 791 deaths were justified. Until civil action is taken and people realize that hate & inaction only fuel the raging fire nothing can be done to help the nation move forward towards social justice and prosperity. Just my two cents.
People need to realize whether they want to believe it or not, is that a Caucasian male's life is very different from an African American male's life in this country. Colin Kapernick may have approached this issue a little boneheaded (wearing police pig socks in practice, sitting rather than kneeling during the national anthem), but the bottom line is he has grown through this process of when he first expressed his opinions on police corruption/brutality. And not just towards blacks, but also minority's groups in general. Though he faltered in the beginning on how to handle his emotions, his message has always been the same. For those who don't know what his message is you can find it in this link: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-national-anthem/
No one is perfect, and just because he has been given the opportunity to play football and become very wealthy, doesn't mean he doesn't/ hasn't face(d) oppression and racism in his life. He's not just speaking for himself, but the millions of people in this country who feel there is a glaring problem. Kaepernick has stated multiple times he's not about disrespecting the military, but people think the flag and the military go hand in hand. The flag represents the nations values, beliefs, and people as a WHOLE. Many view it as disrespecting the military, but many don't see the flag as symbolizing the military at all. I respect those who lay down their lives as I've had family serve, but if someone wants to not stand during an anthem, they have that right to. A nation should not protest the protest just because they don't agree, but understand why he's protesting and find a way to help solve these issues. People wouldn't protest in the first place unless there was actual problems. I don't think anyone can deny there have been unrighteous deaths of innocent people by police (not just blacks, but all races).And I'm not trying to take away from the good officers out there as I know some personally who are very respectful people. But at the same time no action has been taken within the Nations Police system as a whole to right the wrongs. In my eyes I see it as people either turning a blind eye because they would rather not do the right thing OR refusing to acknowledge there's a problem in the first place. I understand many cops do not feel safe, but that's all people seem to be focusing on. Millions of civilians don't feel safe. I sometimes can't help but not feel safe if I get pulled over for speeding and reach for my wallet. I've had a gun pointed in my face for that before. So far this year there have been 791 deaths by police and it's still only September. Of course some people probably sealed their fate by acting aggressively towards police but no one can say all those 791 deaths were justified. Until civil action is taken and people realize that hate & inaction only fuel the raging fire nothing can be done to help the nation move forward towards social justice and prosperity. Just my two cents.
My opinion,
It was a very effective protest (duh, we are all talking about it).
I stand for the National Anthem at games, in bars, and at home.
Now that the protest is in, why not make it a more popular protest and make it known that you are now going to stand for the Anthem to celebrate all that is good. It would get equally as much pub and be a positive instead of a negative. Nobody is going to forget the initial protest (and that was the point, right?).
According to a BBC article quoting FBI statistics the average number of officers "feloniously killed" over the last ten years averages about 49 in the US. Not sure you really wanted to know or were just trying to delegitimize Boilerkid18's well thought out comment.
I'm not surprised by the 791 number. Police have a tough job and frankly they are often dealing with shady characters in sticky situations. You can be shocked and outraged that there may have been some questionable or unjustified deaths there and that's fine. We should strive to make that number as low as possible.
That said, this protest is all focused on a number of videotaped cases involving black males as if all of these instances were motivated by race. If you were to tell me that the main issue is that police too often are shooting first and asking questions later then I might be inclined to agree with that. The truth is that every shooting is different and the general public doesn't know the motivation for each. From the evidence I've seen, I kind of doubt either of these recent shootings had anything to do with race and the one in Charlotte that nobody has seen but has caused riots in the city all week is being reported that a black officer did the shooting. I kind of doubt that he had any racial motivation behind the shooting. Whether it was justified or not is an entirely different matter.
What I hate is this knee-jerk reaction that every time the police shoot a minority that it was racially motivated. We get protests, riots, and anti-police sentiment spread before anyone really knows the facts surrounding the shooting. Maybe the media should show some tapes of when they've had to shoot white people too and that would make everyone feel better because it wouldn't seem as targeted towards minorities? I'm sure there is probably some videos where they've killed white people under questionable circumstances as well. Sadly, I think seeing those might appease some of these people that are upset and feeling targeted.
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Just a few real quick comments…
“I've been a long time reader but have never decided to create an account until now. After reading this thread there has been a lot of talk over this sensitive topic. Being only 18, I maybe not have the experience as some of you guys do, but I've seen/experienced a fair share of society.”
18 is quite young to have the requisite understanding needed due to the potential knowledge missing in a relevant domain. That said, someone 60 may not have as much as one 18 either. However, it is safe to say that you will have more years from now from wherever you are at this point in time and your understandings in many things will probably change…at least some.
“People need to realize whether they want to believe it or not, is that a Caucasian male's life is very different from an African American male's life in this country. “
Okay, so what does that mean? A man’s life is different from a woman’s life. People with high aptitudes have a different life more often than not over those that do not have as high an aptitude. Tall people more of an advantage in basketball and smaller people more of an advantage as a jockey. People that come from fatherless households probably have a different life from two parent homes. Everybody, well damn near everyone has a different life than another. No matter the hardships and some definitely worse than others there always exists a decision to choose to be a victim or a victor. We know that there exists a strong relationship between academic achievement and quality of life and yet if you go to the most egalitarian institute typically…”education” you will notice that there is a distinct difference in achievement. Asians who have a different life than blacks, Hispanics and whites, seem to do quite well. Why? Is it more culture or aptitude? Why do Asians seem to not have the struggles we see in the media that we see with blacks and Hispanics?
“He's not just speaking for himself, but the millions of people in this country who feel there is a glaring problem. “
I wish I read more about people “thinking” instead of feeling since they are not the same.
“People wouldn't protest in the first place unless there was actual problems.”
Really? People never protest or proclaim an innocence that doesn’t exist? In a few more years you too might disagree with that statement. Is looting and destruction a protest?
The bottom line is there are bad apples in every position and the police are not immune as you suggested. Obviously the inner cities are many times filled with horrible leadership in a variety of areas. Leadership with good intentions perhaps may exist, but without some accountability of people, they dry up and become another rat hole for the tax payer. Detroit anyone? The question I don’t see asking…is why now? Why not 10 years ago? Why the racial discord today when compared to the past appear to be worse? Lastly, what does empirical data from the FBI data base say?
I hear everything you're saying in this post, a lot of it I can somewhat agree with.. In response to your question about the rioting, when people are put in desperate situations, people do desperate things. we all agree that rioting is not the answer, but we've got to understand WHY these people are upset. No one can deny that racism is prevalent and we are now feeling the effects of it. Why now you ask? The main reason why it's becoming such a hot topic in all our homes is because of one thing and one thing only: social media. Social media has given the chance to show up front and close the killings and crimes not available before. Since it's more accessible, people now have a chance to voice an opinion and that's what is happening. If you don't recall, it's always been a problem in this nations history. The 90's in Compton, Rodney King in the 80's, Jim Crowe laws in the 50's, rioting during WW1 and so forth. What they all have in common is that people have something not given to them (equal rights, respect, equal opportunity like all Americans should have based on Constitutional right) etc.... Or they riot because of something taken away from them ( rights, equal opportunity, land) whatever the case may be. In my eyes it's a huge issue of race as I have former KKK members on my dads side of the family. No one or no country can grow without realizing its faults and deciding against taking action on fixing those faults. I think we can all say we have a long way to go before we can all have love and compassion for each other and eliminate the hate in our hearts, definitely including myself. The bad apples will continue to exist in the police department, as they will in society.... The only thing we need to do is pluck those bad apples from both sides... The right and civil way.
Social media also gives false narratives the chance to spread quicker than actual facts. There are people who still think Michael Brown was killed in cold blood, shot in the back with his hands up. The actual facts of the case determined this was false, the DOJ agreed to the point that they did not indict the officer, and yet people in Ferguson lost their stores and other businesses in senseless rioting. Exactly how does looting a Wal*Mart or the Hornets arena store or smashing up an Omni hotel in Charlotte shine a light on injustice? It seems that most times, it does more harm than good in the court of public opinion. The similar effect can be seen in that the divisive identity politics of the left may actually drive a Donald Trump victory in November. After a while, people who aren't really racists get tired of being told they are racists because they believe in the rule of law.
I think we can agree social media has its positives and negatives, I would rather not delge deeper in this topic because there is no right answer to all, but yes I agree the Ferguson incident was way out of hand.
Social media does have its positive and negative moments...no question. Problem is the average person is not too bright and 50% are below average. Let that sink in for a minute. Which side of average is pushing the BLM movement? In the NC fiasco the other night you could see the police and hear a shot. It was obvious the police didn't shoot him and now we learn a rival gang member had a score to settle. That didn't stop ring a bell as to a real problem. Instead there was an agenda to be had. Had this been in Chicago nobody would have been too concerned. Police should have quelch it in minutes in NC, but Cultural Marxism had already programmed them and consequently things continued. We have laws or we don't. Blacks kill people all the time and we have been programmed to blame everybody and everything possible other than to assume that each individual has a choice. Many blacks don't care about other black lives or there would be true outrage against what we see going on in Chicago. Some of the protesters are paid to promote this narrative for politics.
I think if you look at the FBI data and review the sources of variation in a mental sort of analysis of variance you will have a lot of explanations behind some of what we see. What I don't want to see is local police so handicapped that things escalate and the public soon calls for department of homeland security or some national military to be in charge. All that said there are some dishonest cops...one of which I was involved and he lost his job...and a couple of years later thrown in jail. There are also some cops that are trigger happy as a result of being innocent targets (not criminals with a history acting funny) and some would rather lean on the side of his or her safety than error and be dead. A second late may be all it takes and they are under stress. No, I agree that there are bad apples...but this whole BLM movement is all for politics.
ya know, back in the 90's...maybe late 80's when I was more involved in education I remember discussing in a national forum on education with a third grade teacher in Indianapolis reading and phonics specifically. This woman didn't care about teaching children to read and would just as soon see her black students see other blacks in magazine rather than teach. I wonder how many children she screwed (figuratively...but we also know there are bad teachers as well)? Another time a national policy adviser was discussing with me the importance of subject knowledge for a teacher. I thought it was important he didn't. Why the education gap between Hispanics and blacks versus Asians and whites? Some can be explained by block scheduling versus traditional scheduling even though block was a desired goal to "reduce" the gap. Oh well, I'm off on a pertinent tangent, but still off.
Progressive education like progressive politics have enslaved blacks and there lies some of the problem.one last thought...
LBJ waged a war on poverty in the late 60's. He thought that by educating people he could eradicate poverty. Consequently, he wanted to find out how students learned the best. Ed schools submitted various approaches...many along the lines of affective-cognitive theory. This was the longest, most comprehensive study ever on learning and my money says that 99% of the supts and building principals have no idea as the results went against what ed school wanted. I have never encountered one supt or building principal that is aware. That too is not the narrative that is desired to be shared. There are a lot of things that need changed and it starts with HONEST dialog. My previous post was truncated as I was called to do something and lost it. However, as I typed there and type again here...I'm happy that you care about something external where so many 18 year olds haven't looked external at the world. Congrats on being interested in things of substance...Project Follow Through started in 67? with funding concluding in 1995? based on my feeble memory. http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~adiep/ft/151toc.htm
I do not quite agree with some of your points in your statement, but I do see why you feel that way. our age gap may be a reason for different beliefs on why things are happening the way they are, but I can't tell you what's right and what's wrong, you've always been a good, thoughtful poster and I can definitely respect that. Hopefully one day a utopian society can be close to a reality and we have less time discussing sensitive topics and more discussion on a Purdue national championshipSocial media does have its positive and negative moments...no question. Problem is the average person is not too bright and 50% are below average. Let that sink in for a minute. Which side of average is pushing the BLM movement? In the NC fiasco the other night you could see the police and hear a shot. It was obvious the police didn't shoot him and now we learn a rival gang member had a score to settle. That didn't stop ring a bell as to a real problem. Instead there was an agenda to be had. Had this been in Chicago nobody would have been too concerned. Police should have quelch it in minutes in NC, but Cultural Marxism had already programmed them and consequently things continued. We have laws or we don't. Blacks kill people all the time and we have been programmed to blame everybody and everything possible other than to assume that each individual has a choice. Many blacks don't care about other black lives or there would be true outrage against what we see going on in Chicago. Some of the protesters are paid to promote this narrative for politics.
I think if you look at the FBI data and review the sources of variation in a mental sort of analysis of variance you will have a lot of explanations behind some of what we see. What I don't want to see is local police so handicapped that things escalate and the public soon calls for department of homeland security or some national military to be in charge. All that said there are some dishonest cops...one of which I was involved and he lost his job...and a couple of years later thrown in jail. There are also some cops that are trigger happy as a result of being innocent targets (not criminals with a history acting funny) and some would rather lean on the side of his or her safety than error and be dead. A second late may be all it takes and they are under stress. No, I agree that there are bad apples...but this whole BLM movement is all for politics.
ya know, back in the 90's...maybe late 80's when I was more involved in education I remember discussing in a national forum on education with a third grade teacher in Indianapolis reading and phonics specifically. This woman didn't care about teaching children to read and would just as soon see her black students see other blacks in magazine rather than teach. I wonder how many children she screwed (figuratively...but we also know there are bad teachers as well)? Another time a national policy adviser was discussing with me the importance of subject knowledge for a teacher. I thought it was important he didn't. Why the education gap between Hispanics and blacks versus Asians and whites? Some can be explained by block scheduling versus traditional scheduling even though block was a desired goal to "reduce" the gap. Oh well, I'm off on a pertinent tangent, but still off.
one last thought...
Project Follow Through started in 67? with funding concluding in 1995? based on my feeble memory. http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~adiep/ft/151toc.htm
Amen. I'm very worried for the future of this country when the discussion on such topics devolves into "you agree with me or I'm going to label you a shameful and derogatory term like 'racist' 'sexist' or 'homophobe' for political pandering". I must admit it has been a very effective political strategy for the left but unfortunately the way they try to apply it to everything has really made those words lose meaning and now there's an extra layer of BS to sort through. Is this person/law/idea really racist? Is it really sexist? Is it really homophobic? Or is that just the political narrative being used?
People are sheep and all you need is to log on to social media and see a few of your friends labeling someone or something as racist and the vast majority of people will go out of their way to disassociate from those things regardless of whether they consider them racist themselves. Most people would rather join the crowd than risk being labeled themselves or just avoid the topic entirely. Meanwhile the people being the loudest and labeling others severely outnumber those that are willing to stand up and question them knowing that they could be labeled such a despicable title themselves.
Here's where I'm at personally. If you go out and you throw around these labels often or towards people that you don't even know personally, you're the problem and you're just as bad as the actual racists/sexists/bigots. You're the one using generalizations to try to degrade and dehumanize others.
That's where I get the appeal of Trump in this election. He doesn't give a damn what label is being thrown at him and he doesn't back down from it. For the record, I'm a fiscally conservative, socially moderate Republican and did not vote for Trump in the primaries. There's a ton I don't like about him. That said, I'm so sick of the political discussions being driven by such disgusting labeling and that is Hillary Clinton to the core. Trump is far from my ideal candidate but if he moves us further away from labeling other bigots for rational political views then I can at least stand by that. As far as I can see, there is no appeal to Hillary Clinton whatsoever. Her campaign is basically, "Donald Trump and his supporters are all bigots and I'm not Donald Trump." She can no doubt herd a bunch of sheep with that campaign though and probably enough to win this election if she doesn't keep screwing it up.
and we wond
I do not quite agree with some of your points in your statement, but I do see why you feel that way. our age gap may be a reason for different beliefs on why things are happening the way they are, but I can't tell you what's right and what's wrong, you've always been a good, thoughtful poster and I can definitely respect that. Hopefully one day a utopian society can be close to a reality and we have less time discussing sensitive topics and more discussion on a Purdue national championship
Hey Boilerkid18, I enjoyed reading your post. It was really interesting to read your post and get your insight on the issue. I'm much more interested in your thoughts and insights than the plus 70 white guy crowd that believes they have insight into what it's like to live in America as a person of color.
TC4Three, I was making an attempt to leave out political parties as I believe it shouldn't be viewed as ammo for a certain political party. If people think that's what it is about, then we have deeper issues in this country to solve than social injustice. Being a legal citizen to vote now, I will probably never vote as it really doesn't matter in my eyes. Lobbyists & the elite make the decisions in this country and I see the political system as a way to pin people against each other to keep the masses focused on each other rather than the group of people with real power. Anyone can find out who is funding each parties billion dollar campaign, what news networks are owned by who, and how the whole system is connected. Sorry I'm probably going into too much detail for some people to handle my "crazy" talk, but I strive to know the truth. I was glad to have a respectful discussion with fellow boilers without it getting out of hand, respect to you guys.
no problem with a disagreement on some or many things. I don't need my ego stroked and understand people see things different. 2000 people attend a ballgame and most come away with different thoughts. Back when I was more involved in education I thought it was the "real" civil rights act and no doubt our age differences have given us different experiences.I do not quite agree with some of your points in your statement, but I do see why you feel that way. our age gap may be a reason for different beliefs on why things are happening the way they are, but I can't tell you what's right and what's wrong, you've always been a good, thoughtful poster and I can definitely respect that. Hopefully one day a utopian society can be close to a reality and we have less time discussing sensitive topics and more discussion on a Purdue national championship
FWIW, I was out in Frederick, MD last July and as I walked out a restaurant I noticed police that were rarely seen in that area. Soon, I heard the chants and saw it was a BLM gathering. Obviously I must have had a an intriguing look on my face as the local newspaper interviewed me for over 20 minutes. 95% of what I said was not printed. One thing I did say and the other I wasn't even close to saying. Why? Who knows?
Just so you understand I haven't just joined this game. A deceased brother-in-law in the late 80s early 90s had probably 95% of the public sector labor contracts in Ohio. On his own he injected contracts for schools to be off on MLK day. Course if you recall it was MLK that wanted people judged by their character and NOT their color as we see being trotted out too frequent today. A few years before that...early 70s another brother-in-law worked in personnel in Cummins in Columbus, IN. His boss and great friend..Ulrick Haynes a black man needed a quota, but unlike so many at that time, Rick knew there were competent blacks and he wasn't just going to hire a black to fill a quota. He said there were plenty of qualified blacks and he would hire them since it was not fair to the qualified blacks to just hire a black. Rick later was a head negotiator for the Iranian hostage situation that took Ronnie to fix.
There have been many things going on for several years and yet blacks keep throwing their support to the democrat party no matter who is running and you would think the enslavement might be noticed sometime.
Lastly, I wish more could discuss sensitive issues in an honest way. Since you seem interested in society and probably don't think it happened by accident, consider reading the attached book. When John Dewey left Prussia in the early 1900s he was impressed in their education and this "father of public education" stated that the real importance in the government schools was social reform..not academics. It was at this time that teh president of Columbia said no wider road existed there than the road between the school of education and the academics. Read how this book was created and a little background on Diane. It is an easy to read book that requires no understanding of pedagogy or education in general, but should serve as an eye opener. When I was young we had history in grade school. A few years later it was social studies. Is there an outcome difference?
Best wishes on your future. I enjoy mature discussion from youth. It helps temper my concerns for the future...
http://www.textbookleague.org/124ravbk.htm
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Best of luck to you sir, I'll look into that book and let you know what I think of it. I appreciate all of your input and look forward to conversing in the futureno problem with a disagreement on some or many things. I don't need my ego stroked and understand people see things different. 2000 people attend a ballgame and most come away with different thoughts. Back when I was more involved in education I thought it was the "real" civil rights act and no doubt our age differences have given us different experiences.
FWIW, I was out in Frederick, MD last July and as I walked out a restaurant I noticed police that were rarely seen in that area. Soon, I heard the chants and saw it was a BLM gathering. Obviously I must have had a an intriguing look on my face as the local newspaper interviewed me for over 20 minutes. 95% of what I said was not printed. One thing I did say and the other I wasn't even close to saying. Why? Who knows?
Just so you understand I haven't just joined this game. A deceased brother-in-law in the late 80s early 90s had probably 95% of the public sector labor contracts in Ohio. On his own he injected contracts for schools to be off on MLK day. Course if you recall it was MLK that wanted people judged by their character and NOT their color as we see being trotted out too frequent today. A few years before that...early 70s another brother-in-law worked in personnel in Cummins in Columbus, IN. His boss and great friend..Ulrick Haynes a black man needed a quota, but unlike so many at that time, Rick knew there were competent blacks and he wasn't just going to hire a black to fill a quota. He said there were plenty of qualified blacks and he would hire them since it was not fair to the qualified blacks to just hire a black. Rick later was a head negotiator for the Iranian hostage situation that took Ronnie to fix.
There have been many things going on for several years and yet blacks keep throwing their support to the democrat party no matter who is running and you would think the enslavement might be noticed sometime.
Lastly, I wish more could discuss sensitive issues in an honest way. Since you seem interested in society and probably don't think it happened by accident, consider reading the attached book. When John Dewey left Prussia in the early 1900s he was impressed in their education and this "father of public education" stated that the real importance in the government schools was social reform..not academics. It was at this time that teh president of Columbia said no wider road existed there than the road between the school of education and the academics. Read how this book was created and a little background on Diane. It is an easy to read book that requires no understanding of pedagogy or education in general, but should serve as an eye opener. When I was young we had history in grade school. A few years later it was social studies. Is there an outcome difference?
Best wishes on your future. I enjoy mature discussion from youth. It helps temper my concerns for the future...
http://www.textbookleague.org/124ravbk.htm
We are what we eat..what we feed (or are fed) ourselves mentally and physically. We ALL have been programmed in a sense. Depending on where, what and how that programming took place we may have different views. I find this very interesting. I see Cultural Marxism where it flies past so many today...due to programming. I remember about around 20 years ago getting introduced to it by a writer for a national magazine publication and him telling me it would be the cause of so much decline in this country. He was proud of his Native Indian heritage and had his views on education as well.
You being much younger have experienced a different pedagogy, texts that have been sanitized in school and combine to form an opinion. Did you ever wonder why the math books in this country (outside of Saxon) are so large when compared to Singapore math and such? Rain forest math has been around for some time. Here is a little background
https://www.stolaf.edu/other/extend/Expectations/byrd.html
The pedagogical practices that used to be in the elementary have expanded into high school and beyond...and I'm speaking about the "child centered school" rather than the subject matter or teacher led school. We have a lot more group or herd mentality today that years ago, but we had some then as well. The collective has replaced the individual (group work?) in many classes and the effects can carry into other areas of life. Anyway, I'm one that doesn't "think" that ideas, norms and mores change by accident and yet we see this across the country and not confined to only certain geographical areas. How does that happen? Water? Air? What common denominator exists? You may or may not be aware that University of Cal quit using the SAT years ago because it eliminated many minorities? You may not recall the recentering of the SAT test years ago or the complete change in the test where females typically didn't do as well on the math portion. The writing portion was added and the data tabulated in Texas in every county showing a blurring of the domains or less able to show an aptitude towards math.
How does all this education or lack of affect society? If you live in Indiana then you are aware of ISTEP (other states have their state testing as well). In the 80's and very early years the IDOE published some of their data and presented an opinion that went against their own ANOVA results. I called them on it and they immediately started to attack the messenger and finally admitted I was right, but they thought the data should have been different and so they publicly proposed a false agenda in the future (reduced lunches). There is so much and all of this combine to help form opinions and unfortunately almost all do not have the requisite background (statistics?) to discern things appropriately...and I haven't even mentioned the potential for problems due to DIF (Differential Item Functioning).
I was not in the same solar system to have learned this when I was 18 or certainly the first half of my life, but all of it forms a picture much different than many have. The book was written by Daine Ravitch who was on the transition team to Clinton. Clinton wanted her to study biasing (she is the guru on the history of education and the many fads through the years) and although she had an extensive background, she had no idea how bad it was until she dug deeper...which led to this book.
Good luck and may the boilers win today.
A very well composed post, but allow me to try to set some facts straight.
“… but the bottom line is he has grown through this process of when he first expressed his opinions on police corruption/brutality. And not just towards blacks, but also minority's groups in general.”
This is a false narrative. Twice as many whites as blacks are shot to death by police. And how do you know he has “grown through this process”? He probably does not know the facts any more than you do.
“No one is perfect, and just because he has been given the opportunity to play football and become very wealthy, doesn't mean he doesn't/ hasn't face(d) oppression and racism in his life.”
Few Americans cannot make that claim.
“A nation should not protest the protest just because they don't agree, but understand why he's protesting and find a way to help solve these issues.”
This is nonsense. ”A nation” is not protesting his protest. American citizens are protesting his protest. You say that he has the right to protest, but American citizens should not “protest the protest”? What Constitutional amendment lays down that law? I protest his protest because he has done nothing to solve these issues, as you say we should. He has not accomplished anything but to distract the discussion from the real problem. Instead of talking about abuse of power by police, he has people talking about disrespecting our American military and their sacrifices, national patriotism, spoiled rich athletes, and the hypocrisy of the media and NFL. Whatever his message was intended to be (it has changed with time), he has distracted people who agree that there should not be murderers on police forces.
“I don't think anyone can deny there have been unrighteous deaths of innocent people by police (not just blacks, but all races).”
No question. This is very true. Many, many Americans have encountered “bad cops”. But when a thug is justifiably shot by police, and the mass media and movements like BLM portrays him as a “gentle” victim, you hurt the cause of all innocent people and the cause of law enforcement. To incite riots with these lies is despicable.
“Until civil action is taken and people realize that hate & inaction only fuel the raging fire nothing can be done to help the nation move forward towards social justice and prosperity.”
You may have been watching too much of the one-sided, hysterical media reports. This is the same media that 70+% of Americans don’t trust, yet still rely on for information. What is fueling the raging fire is the media spreading rumors as truth, before there is an investigation. This nation has elected a black President – TWICE. Even before that, we had 8 years of another “first black President” (not my label), Bill Clinton. Many of the top positions of political power have been and are held by black men and women. It would not have happened without the votes of white people. Americans have placed black men and women at the highest levels of power, yet all we hear is that black people are oppressed. And after 8 years of having a black man as the leader of our nation, all we hear is that the black people in America are oppressed more than ever. Think about the absurdity of that belief! “Social justice” has become an overused and abused phrase. What exactly is it supposed to mean in this context? If anyone thinks that what happened to Charlotte was a peaceful pursuit for social justice, then they should watch something more than just MSNBC. What those people were dishing out was the antithesis of social justice.
I saw another young contributor to this board claim that the treatment of black people in America today is the worst it has ever been. If this is what our youth believes, then I can only conclude that our high school history teachers are failing miserably at their jobs.
Not even going to try and convince you otherwise. I smell a lot of ignorance on this board from some posters and it was kind of what I was expecting. I can tell fact from fiction and I didn't expect many people to try and actually understand what I was saying anyways.
There it is. Not going for the substance. Instead, label and back away. You've been trained well.
Hmm. First it was just the "ignorant" label. Now I see you've somehow determined that everyone here that disagrees is also a middle-aged man.
Might want to look in the mirror Boilerkid18. It's people like you that are the problem.
Do you think that middle aged men are incapable of listening to a reasoned argument and considering it on its merits?
You're really good with turning words on people aren't you? Not gonna argue with you man. I'm probably the only teenager posting on this board so our opinions and outlook on things are gonna differ. I'm not gonna respond on this thread again so you can just end it right here. Have a good evening.
Never said that, it was a good discussion, was never an argument on here. I've given my reasons but none of them have been accepted so ill draw my own conclusions based off what people have given me on this thread. No one has really tried to understand what I'm saying, more so just nitpicking because some people can't discuss just to discuss things. Maturity lacks on this board by quite a few people (not saying all,there are plenty of good posters but just more than needed)
Not only are those that disagree with you ignorant, many are also immature now. Love it.
I'll continue to be here for basketball and being respectful and civil to posters that deserve it. You done yet?
I will always "keep doing" me. I'm not some trained seal who was told how to think and spouts off mindless rhetoric. If you had legitimate substance to discuss, we'd be doing that right now. Instead a few people threw out some things you really can't account for so you label them ignorant and immature and back away.
I could go into more detail, I just don't feel the need to repeat some things I've said and expect people to change their opinion on this issue. I've said what I needed to say and left it at that. I just don't appreciate the posters who refuse to accept anything I've said and write me off as not knowing anything. Arguing seems to be something you're good at, find another poster to bicker with. Thats where the maturity issue comes into play. A whole lot of name calling and blatant sarcasm and lack of respect for people. Can we please move on now?
Except you didn't leave it at that. You had to try to label those who didn't agree with you as (so far) ignorant, immature, middle-aged men as you bow out.
Re-read your post. Specifically, you mentioned middle-aged men and then stated, "Their opinions are already established." Be careful about labeling people with a broad brush. I thought that TJReese's response to you was very respectful and thoughtful. BoilerAndy was more confrontational, but I made no assumptions about BoilerAndy's age, based on his response.
I like to think that I am considerably wiser now than I was when I was 18. (My view of the world was much more black and white then.) I hope that you can say the same thing when you are my age.
BTW, I did appreciate your original post, but I generally try to stay out of this kind of this discussion on the board, because I prefer that the board stay focused on basketball.
my apologies about that generalized statement I made, I didn't intend it to be derogatory to all you guys, it's just evident we all have our own opinions, whether age reflects that or not. Hopefully basketball this season will bring us joy we hope for year in and year out as Boilers.
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