Purdue is going to screw itself

[Summy1]

So Purdue beat a bad Nebraska team Saturday. This upcoming Saturday we play another god awful team in Illinois. I think Purdue can screw itself if it wins. That would put us at 3 wins for the season and I am sure Burke and the committee will say "lets bring Hazell back".

Yes, we would have won 2 Big Ten games, but does that really show improvement winning against sucky teams? I still think we would be better off getting a new coaching staff for next season.

 

[PalmCoastFl]

I tend to agree with you! We beat ILL this week and beat IU in the finally............will unfortunately be enough for Burke to keep him...............won't do a damn thing for ticket sales next year if changes aren't made.................I love Purdue, but refuse to support a lousy program.......no one will drink the kool-aid next spring that HAZZ and BURKE will be serving!

 

[uncleboiler]

The only way hazell and company wins Saturday is if they get 4 turnovers in the red-zone again. I doubt that happens. But even if they do win, what difference does it make?
He would be 7-26 with a .212 winning %...the worst coach in Purdue history!

 

[BoilerGrad02]

Yeah, I think an Illinois and IU win allows Burke to point to "improvement in the win column" as a reason for year 4.

At the beginning of the year I said 5-7 should be the bar (not a particularly high one at that) and being competitive in the majority of losses. I don't see Hazell making that but bringing him back ain't up to me.

4-8 is no lock at this point though. I think Purdue beats Illinois but if IU still has Sudfeld at QB Purdue is going to have to score a lot of points to win that one.

 

[indyogb]

So Purdue beat a bad Nebraska team Saturday. This upcoming Saturday we play another god awful team in Illinois. I think Purdue can screw itself if it wins. That would put us at 3 wins for the season and I am sure Burke and the committee will say "lets bring Hazell back".

Yes, we would have won 2 Big Ten games, but does that really show improvement winning against sucky teams? I still think we would be better off getting a new coaching staff for next season.

I agree with you that Hazell needs to go if we want to see long term success. However, winning 3 or 4 games with 2 or 3 of those coming against Big Ten foes would, indeed, constitute a drastic improvement. ...even if the wins are gift wrapped via an inordinate number of turnovers against sleep walking teams (one could also give the defense some credit for being "opportunistic"). That speaks to how abysmal we've been the last few years.

 

[Summy1]

I tend to agree with you! We beat ILL this week and beat IU in the finally............will unfortunately be enough for Burke to keep him...............won't do a damn thing for ticket sales next year if changes aren't made.................I love Purdue, but refuse to support a lousy program.......no one will drink the kool-aid next spring that HAZZ and BURKE will be serving!

Yeah, if we come out of this season with 3 wins, no body is going to be impressed. Ticket sales for next season will actually be worse than this season.

I don't see us beating IU. IU scores a lot of points and like BoilerGrad said, Studfeld ain't going to throw bunch of int like Nebraska did.

 

[AZboiler]

At this point in the season, I will not root against Purdue for any reason. I know the mood of this site is hostile to bringing back Hazell. I am not, so opposed to Hazell but for the lack of improvement and wins. If the team can wind 2 or 3 more games, and the team certainly looks to improve. Heck yeah bring DH back. If we win agains Ill then lose the remainder and have poor showings, that is another story.
If the IU game is not competitive. You don't need me a thing.

 

[Redhotfill]

2, 3, OR EVEN 4 Big 10 wins is still not "improvement" from Danny Hope, and its been 3 years in the making.

 

[BoilerBonz]

This thread certainly reminds one of why Joe Tiller coined the term, knuckleheads, to describe this board.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

So Purdue beat a bad Nebraska team Saturday. This upcoming Saturday we play another god awful team in Illinois. I think Purdue can screw itself if it wins. That would put us at 3 wins for the season and I am sure Burke and the committee will say "lets bring Hazell back".

Yes, we would have won 2 Big Ten games, but does that really show improvement winning against sucky teams? I still think we would be better off getting a new coaching staff for next season.

I have not followed Illinois too much other than the fact I was shocked they won ANY games. I saw they beat Nebraska when Nebraska had a QB so they must not be too awful.

Looking back it was a little, odd?, how they were carrying DH around after the W. A 3-5 team, sans QB, at home, etc. Then the paper talking about the offensive "explosion." 180 yards rushing is solid, 4.9 YPC. 274 yards passing is average anymore. Our bar has fallen if that was an "explosion." On a side note, Nebraska looked awful.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Tiller spent the last half of his career only beating "sucky" teams. The fact of the matter is that if we only beat the "sucky" B1G teams this year, that's a significant improvement over the past 2 years. Your only recourse is to root as hard as you can for Purdue to lose this week and then again against IU. I believe DH will have earned another year if he wins those two games. I also believe he will probably be back whether I like it or not if he only wins one of them. But I'll be rooting for a victory each week either way.

 

[BoilerBonz]

Tiller spent the last half of his career only beating "sucky" teams. The fact of the matter is that if we only beat the "sucky" B1G teams this year, that's a significant improvement over the past 2 years. Your only recourse is to root as hard as you can for Purdue to lose this week and then again against IU. I believe DH will have earned another year if he wins those two games. I also believe he will probably be back whether I like it or not if he only wins one of them. But I'll be rooting for a victory each week either way.

And you define "sucky" teams as what? Teams we beat, since by definition, if we beat 'em, they sucked, correct? Tiller was right. Our fan base is delusional! We support a football program with nearly the worst facilities, coaching salaries, and attendance in the B1G, for 30 years, and then complain about the only guy since Jim Young (who was a flipping football genius, btw) to have even modest success, because he only took us to one Rose Bowl! Delusional!!! And how many Rose Bowls did Young take us to?

 

[BoilerBulldog]

And you define "sucky" teams as what? Teams we beat, since by definition, if we beat 'em, they sucked, correct? Tiller was right. Our fan base is delusional! We support a football program with nearly the worst facilities, coaching salaries, and attendance in the B1G, for 30 years, and then complain about the only guy since Jim Young (who was a flipping football genius, btw) to have even modest success, because he only took us to one Rose Bowl! Delusional!!! And how many Rose Bowls did Young take us to?

I was quoting the OP. You'd have to ask him/her. I agree with your point.

 

[SIBoiler2]

I don't see a change happening after last Saturday. That'll be enough for MB-DH to carry forward with their master plan.

 

[pboiler18]

I don't see a change happening after last Saturday. That'll be enough for MB-DH to carry forward with their master plan.

This is beyond silly. 2-10 is still bad. Really bad.

I think it takes getting to 4-5 wins and beating IU to keep any of the current staff around and even then there will be casualties.

 

[SIBoiler2]

This is beyond silly. 2-10 is still bad. Really bad.

I think it takes getting to 4-5 wins and beating IU to keep any of the current staff around and even then there will be casualties.

You are a great labeler of others. It is not "beyond silly" if it happens. I don't like the lack of any communication from Burke and the fact that he's allowed attendance to continue to sink for the past few years doesn't display any urgency to fix things. Do I think DH should be back? Nope!!! But that's not saying it's not gonna happen. So sit on your "silly" for awhile and see how it plays out.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

While I am very happy about the win last Saturday and was very excited about it, I am also cautiously reserved for the rest of the year. If Hazell can lead the team to a 2-2 record over the last 4 games, I think he deserves another year with a new OC (definitely) while the DC reserves the right to stay (remember, he is playing without his best LB and his other top LB has been hurt most of the year).

If Hazel can get 3 wins over the last 4 games, he gets 5 wins for the year which is what most thought would constitute as improvement and where most on here thought Purdue would end up (5-7).

If, by some chance, Hazell gets the last 4 and becomes bowl eligible...you have to think the turn of the program came at that bye week and he gets what he feels is necessary to succeed.

I think the most likely of instances is that Purdue ends up 1-3 over the last 4 games and ends up 3-9, which puts MB in a very tough place. Most will be calling for CDH to be fired but MB will be able to point to improvement to retain him. I think this is where MB and CDH can fire the OC and DC and try to establish a new identity that suits the offensive personnel he has in place.

 

[SDBoiler1]

While I am very happy about the win last Saturday and was very excited about it, I am also cautiously reserved for the rest of the year. If Hazell can lead the team to a 2-2 record over the last 4 games, I think he deserves another year with a new OC (definitely) while the DC reserves the right to stay (remember, he is playing without his best LB and his other top LB has been hurt most of the year).

If Hazel can get 3 wins over the last 4 games, he gets 5 wins for the year which is what most thought would constitute as improvement and where most on here thought Purdue would end up (5-7).

If, by some chance, Hazell gets the last 4 and becomes bowl eligible...you have to think the turn of the program came at that bye week and he gets what he feels is necessary to succeed.

I think the most likely of instances is that Purdue ends up 1-3 over the last 4 games and ends up 3-9, which puts MB in a very tough place. Most will be calling for CDH to be fired but MB will be able to point to improvement to retain him. I think this is where MB and CDH can fire the OC and DC and try to establish a new identity that suits the offensive personnel he has in place.

Not sure in what universe a DC whose defenses have given up 38.0 ppg (2013), 31.7 ppg (2014), and 34.3 ppg (2015) deserves to be given another year. Overall, his defenses have been soft, poor tackling, and pourous, especially against good passing teams. They are regularly run over, through, and around by good running teams. As DC at Minnesota, his defenses were bad, and the same is true of his time at East Carolina.

Hazell needs to get rid of both the OC and the DC after this season.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

While I am very happy about the win last Saturday and was very excited about it, I am also cautiously reserved for the rest of the year. If Hazell can lead the team to a 2-2 record over the last 4 games, I think he deserves another year with a new OC (definitely) while the DC reserves the right to stay (remember, he is playing without his best LB and his other top LB has been hurt most of the year).

If Hazel can get 3 wins over the last 4 games, he gets 5 wins for the year which is what most thought would constitute as improvement and where most on here thought Purdue would end up (5-7).

If, by some chance, Hazell gets the last 4 and becomes bowl eligible...you have to think the turn of the program came at that bye week and he gets what he feels is necessary to succeed.

I think the most likely of instances is that Purdue ends up 1-3 over the last 4 games and ends up 3-9, which puts MB in a very tough place. Most will be calling for CDH to be fired but MB will be able to point to improvement to retain him. I think this is where MB and CDH can fire the OC and DC and try to establish a new identity that suits the offensive personnel he has in place.

Yep. Totally agree with this. If we lose out I think it's 95% he's gone. One more win and I think it's more like 50%. Two or more and it's 0%. Just my own silly opinion.

 

[pboiler18]

You are a great labeler of others. It is not "beyond silly" if it happens. I don't like the lack of any communication from Burke and the fact that he's allowed attendance to continue to sink for the past few years doesn't display any urgency to fix things. Do I think DH should be back? Nope!!! But that's not saying it's not gonna happen. So sit on your "silly" for awhile and see how it plays out.

What the hell is Burke supposed to say at this point? I think its clear he SHOULDN'T come out and support the head coach, but there's no way you can come out and crap on the coach. That doesn't help ANYBODY. Not the players who still have to go out and play 4 more times, not the coaches who then have to feel insecure in their jobs while SOME are still doing a decent job and need to stay focused, and it makes the fans feel like nobody should care and keeps even more people from showing up.

Again....what should Burke say? That things need to get better? No SHIT!

It's pure ignorance to think we'd keep a 2-10 coach at this point. The only way we do is with sweeping staff changes and i'm not sure Hazell wouldn't say "go ahead and fire me" if forced to do so. Burke has a lot of shortcomings, but I think he did a pretty good job last coaching change as far as how it was handled by administration in the media. Now, he made a bad choice BUT I don't think you can criticise the process he went through to try and bring in the right guy. Hindsight is 20/20 there.

 

[pboiler18]

Not sure in what universe a DC whose defenses have given up 38.0 ppg (2013), 31.7 ppg (2014), and 34.3 ppg (2015) deserves to be given another year. Overall, his defenses have been soft, poor tackling, and pourous, especially against good passing teams. They are regularly run over, through, and around by good running teams. As DC at Minnesota, his defenses were bad, and the same is true of his time at East Carolina.

Hazell needs to get rid of both the OC and the DC after this season.

A few points....

You do realize that 3 of our top 5 LBS didn't play on Saturday right? Dunno what the DC can do about injuries.

How many 3 and outs have we had over the past 3 years? How do you think those affect defensive stats? Here's a hint....not well.

Do you expect Purdue to have a lock down D? If so, you're nuts. Go cheer for Alabama.

I think Hudson has done a DECENT job with the D. Sure, there are many shortcomings. That said, i'm not convinced that if you let him go Purdue is going to go hire somebody better. COULD they? For sure. Will they? Again, not convinced.

That said, John Shoop has been beyond abysmal in his tenure here and I think the D #s would look a whole lot better for Hudson had shoop NOT been here!

 

[SDBoiler1]

A few points....

You do realize that 3 of our top 5 LBS didn't play on Saturday right? Dunno what the DC can do about injuries.

How many 3 and outs have we had over the past 3 years? How do you think those affect defensive stats? Here's a hint....not well.

Do you expect Purdue to have a lock down D? If so, you're nuts. Go cheer for Alabama.

I think Hudson has done a DECENT job with the D. Sure, there are many shortcomings. That said, i'm not convinced that if you let him go Purdue is going to go hire somebody better. COULD they? For sure. Will they? Again, not convinced.

That said, John Shoop has been beyond abysmal in his tenure here and I think the D #s would look a whole lot better for Hudson had shoop NOT been here!

There is no question that Shoop's offenses have put Hudson's defenses in some bad positions in many games. Still, it is obvious to most people that Hudson's schemes are deficient.

You do realize that Purdue ranks in FBS this season:
104/128 in scoring defense 34.3 ppg
104/128 in total defense 436 ypg
92/128 in passing defense 252 ypg
90/128 in rush defense 184 ypg

2014
98/128 in scoring defense 31.7 ppg
85/128 in total defense 416 ypg
58/128 in passing defense 222 ypg
96/128 in rush defense 194 ypg

2013
114/126 in scoring defense 38.0 ppg
106/126 in total defense 460 ypg
55/126 in passing defense 225 ypg
117/126 in rush defense 235 ypg

Under Hudson, our defenses are not mediocre. They are flat out bad. You cannot lay this all at Shoop's feet, although he certainly hasn't helped matters.

 

[SDBoiler1]

A few points....

You do realize that 3 of our top 5 LBS didn't play on Saturday right? Dunno what the DC can do about injuries.

How many 3 and outs have we had over the past 3 years? How do you think those affect defensive stats? Here's a hint....not well.

Do you expect Purdue to have a lock down D? If so, you're nuts. Go cheer for Alabama.

I think Hudson has done a DECENT job with the D. Sure, there are many shortcomings. That said, i'm not convinced that if you let him go Purdue is going to go hire somebody better. COULD they? For sure. Will they? Again, not convinced.

That said, John Shoop has been beyond abysmal in his tenure here and I think the D #s would look a whole lot better for Hudson had shoop NOT been here!

There is no question that Shoop's offenses have put Hudson's defenses in some bad positions in many games. Still, it is obvious to most people that Hudson's schemes are deficient.

You do realize that Purdue ranks in FBS this season:
104/128 in scoring defense 34.3 ppg
104/128 in total defense 436 ypg
92/128 in passing defense 252 ypg
90/128 in rush defense 184 ypg

2014
98/128 in scoring defense 31.7 ppg
85/128 in total defense 416 ypg
58/128 in passing defense 222 ypg
96/128 in rush defense 194 ypg

2013
114/126 in scoring defense 38.0 ppg
106/126 in total defense 460 ypg
55/126 in passing defense 225 ypg
117/126 in rush defense 235 ypg

Under Hudson, our defenses are not mediocre. They are flat out bad. You cannot lay this all at Shoop's feet, although he certainly hasn't helped matters.

 

[FirstDownB]

I'm fine with retaining the current DC if he can bring in a "nutrition and performance consultant" to put the entire defense on a strict regimen of leading edge "supplements". Tackling problems solved.

 

[pboiler18]

There is no question that Shoop's offenses have put Hudson's defenses in some bad positions in many games. Still, it is obvious to most people that Hudson's schemes are deficient.

You do realize that Purdue ranks in FBS this season:
104/128 in scoring defense 34.3 ppg
104/128 in total defense 436 ypg
92/128 in passing defense 252 ypg
90/128 in rush defense 184 ypg

2014
98/128 in scoring defense 31.7 ppg
85/128 in total defense 416 ypg
58/128 in passing defense 222 ypg
96/128 in rush defense 194 ypg

2013
114/126 in scoring defense 38.0 ppg
106/126 in total defense 460 ypg
55/126 in passing defense 225 ypg
117/126 in rush defense 235 ypg

Under Hudson, our defenses are not mediocre. They are flat out bad. You cannot lay this all at Shoop's feet, although he certainly hasn't helped matters.

Notice how the year when our offense was at its best (2014) the D got better? And that was a D that I don't think looks or personnel wise is better than this years.

Yes, the D hasn't been good...but how much is a new DC going to change that unless the offensive philosophy changes. Not much IMO.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Notice how the year when our offense was at its best (2014) the D got better? And that was a D that I don't think looks or personnel wise is better than this years.

Yes, the D hasn't been good...but how much is a new DC going to change that unless the offensive philosophy changes. Not much IMO.

Depending on who you hire, it could get a lot better. Schemes matter. Look at what DJ Durkin has done at Michigan. Narduzzi prior to this season at MSU. Dave Aranda at Wisky, The DC at Toledo. The DC for Boston College. The DC at Iowa.

These teams are nails on defense. The point is that you need to hire someone who knows what he's doing.

 

[pboiler18]

Depending on who you hire, it could get a lot better. Schemes matter. Look at what DJ Durkin has done at Michigan. Narduzzi prior to this season at MSU. Dave Aranda at Wisky, The DC at Toledo. The DC for Boston College. The DC at Iowa.

These teams are nails on defense. The point is that you need to hire someone who knows what he's doing.

Also have to have the talent.

Have a B- or C+ coordinator and D level talent right now.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Also have to have the talent.

Have a B- or C+ coordinator and D level talent right now.

I think you've got it backwards. D-level DC and B- or C+ talent.

 

[Summy1]

I just saw a lot of bad tackling in the 4th quarter of that Nebraska game. We are over half way through this season. These guys are still making early season mistakes.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I just saw a lot of bad tackling in the 4th quarter of that Nebraska game. We are over half way through this season. These guys are still making early season mistakes.

Or maybe those guys are just bad tacklers to begin with. The game of football truly comes down to one major aspect:

You have to be able to dish out a hit and you can't be afraid to get hit. If you lack either of those, it has an effect on your entire game. I can understand Frankie Williams' issue of wanting to step in to a hit with full force because of his concussion issues, but many guys seem to simply not want to tackle...and many times that's what it comes down to. You have to WANT to tackle someone and some guys just don't want to because they are afraid.

 

[lbodel]

I have not followed Illinois too much other than the fact I was shocked they won ANY games. I saw they beat Nebraska when Nebraska had a QB so they must not be too awful.

Looking back it was a little, odd?, how they were carrying DH around after the W. A 3-5 team, sans QB, at home, etc. Then the paper talking about the offensive "explosion." 180 yards rushing is solid, 4.9 YPC. 274 yards passing is average anymore. Our bar has fallen if that was an "explosion." On a side note, Nebraska looked awful.

Do you realize Nebraska is 3-6?

With or without their QB, they were never good. Their 3 wins are against South Alabama, Southern Miss and Minnesota.

They still play Michigan State and Iowa. Good chance they end up 3-9 or 4-8.

 

[SIBoiler2]

I'm fine with retaining the current DC if he can bring in a "nutrition and performance consultant" to put the entire defense on a strict regimen of leading edge "supplements". Tackling problems solved.

Really??? If that's all it takes to upgrade mediocre talent and lack of fundamentals they better get the whole team including the coaching staff on said diet and "supplements."

 

[PalmCoastFl]

Not sure in what universe a DC whose defenses have given up 38.0 ppg (2013), 31.7 ppg (2014), and 34.3 ppg (2015) deserves to be given another year. Overall, his defenses have been soft, poor tackling, and pourous, especially against good passing teams. They are regularly run over, through, and around by good running teams. As DC at Minnesota, his defenses were bad, and the same is true of his time at East Carolina.

Hazell needs to get rid of both the OC and the DC after this season.

You are spot on!!!!!!!!!!!If Hazz stays..................the other two need to "GO"! Our "D" has looked god awful on most occasions....even when healthy!

 

[FirstDownB]

Really??? If that's all it takes to upgrade mediocre talent and lack of fundamentals they better get the whole team including the coaching staff on said diet and "supplements."

It depends on how desperate you are to gain a competitive advantage! I've seen walk-ons transform into NFL ready bodies many times. Aggression, strength, and willingness to smash your head into a wall doesn't fix technique, but it sure can mask it!

 

[PalmCoastFl]

There is no question that Shoop's offenses have put Hudson's defenses in some bad positions in many games. Still, it is obvious to most people that Hudson's schemes are deficient.

You do realize that Purdue ranks in FBS this season:
104/128 in scoring defense 34.3 ppg
104/128 in total defense 436 ypg
92/128 in passing defense 252 ypg
90/128 in rush defense 184 ypg

2014
98/128 in scoring defense 31.7 ppg
85/128 in total defense 416 ypg
58/128 in passing defense 222 ypg
96/128 in rush defense 194 ypg

2013
114/126 in scoring defense 38.0 ppg
106/126 in total defense 460 ypg
55/126 in passing defense 225 ypg
117/126 in rush defense 235 ypg

Under Hudson, our defenses are not mediocre. They are flat out bad. You cannot lay this all at Shoop's feet, although he certainly hasn't helped matters.

Just looking back over Hope's last two seasons the "D" gave up 29pts per in 2012 and 26pts per in 2011 in regular season games ..............which was achieved with DC making 200k per year........................Hudson has made it much worse................I think we can find a better coach for 500K a year!

 

[Summy1]

Do you realize Nebraska is 3-6?

With or without their QB, they were never good. Their 3 wins are against South Alabama, Southern Miss and Minnesota.

They still play Michigan State and Iowa. Good chance they end up 3-9 or 4-8.

Nebraska is a bad team. Its going to be a very long off season for them. Truefully though, I don't know how much better Illinois is? They won some non conference games but have sucked once Big Ten season has started. I don't expect them to turn the ball over like Nebraska did though. This will be another winnable game for Purdue.

 

[Dandelion1972]

Do you realize Nebraska is 3-6?

With or without their QB, they were never good. Their 3 wins are against South Alabama, Southern Miss and Minnesota.

They still play Michigan State and Iowa. Good chance they end up 3-9 or 4-8.

But you do realize that when they came to WL, they could have easily been 6-0! And they pounded Minnesota AT Minnie?

 

[Summy1]

It's kind of like an NFL team that is in last place. They some how win the final game of the regular season only to give up the #1 pick. Now they get the #2 pick instead. Same with Purdue. They will do just enough to have Hazell back next season.

 

[lbodel]

But you do realize that when they came to WL, they could have easily been 6-0! And they pounded Minnesota AT Minnie?

Well, they were 3-5. I mean, it's tough that they barely lost to Illinois, but I don't really care. Their schedule hasn't exactly been that tough. Northwestern is their toughest opponent they've faced on paper and NW has been slapped around by Iowa and Michigan.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Well, they were 3-5. I mean, it's tough that they barely lost to Illinois, but I don't really care. Their schedule hasn't exactly been that tough. Northwestern is their toughest opponent they've faced on paper and NW has been slapped around by Iowa and Michigan.

Yeah I was sitting right behind them, and they're just not a very impressive looking group, at least compared to vintage Nebraska teams, or compared to teams like MSU, Wisky, etc. I'm
Glad we won and all, but they're so bad that the AD could end up losing his job.