Painter's coaching Carsen
- Thread starter hamcoboiler
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No. He has the fifth most minutes on the team (more than Isaac). Wisconsin was the exception not the rule.
CMP has said, on multiple podcasts that he gives Carsen more shooting freedom than most guys he has coached. I wouldn't worry about it.
"...a guard with that mentality THIS YEAR, next year, the year after that, and so on..."
Couldn't disagree more. CE has a very long leash and, frankly, his undisciplined play is hurting the team right now. I like that MP is letting him play, but, like Biggie last year, he still needs to be coached. I think that MP is finding a good balance right now, considering how talented Carsen is. He'll be a tremendous player for Purdue, but part of becoming a great player will be learning to play more intelligently.
If you don't teach, you end up with a talented player who never meets his potential. Imagine what James Blackmon would be be like if his coaches had the fortitude to teach him how to play defense instead of just letting him play one end of the court.
Matt was all over Swanigan in the Ohio St game after his second 3 pointer, a brick, the first being the lucky banked in brick. Are you concerned that he is stifling the best player in the big ten by coaching him?
I was trying to watch Carsen's demeanor as he sat on the bench against Wisconsin. The kid's a competitor and you could tell he doesn't like to sit. However Cline was playing so well shooting, rebounding, and on defense that he had to see Painter had no choice but to leave him in.
Early on I would say he had a long leash.....took some shots that would sit others....and had a lower shooting% than others....but still played because he could create his own shot and had enough quickness missing in some others to D it up on certain guys.
There is B1G data for what you are saying though, as his minutes are trending downward (26,28,21,16). If his minutes stay in the teens, there could be justification for your claim as correct. But if he gets back to mid 20s, then it was just a situational thing where perhaps Cline & DM were smokin the nets, and there were just less minutes for CE.
I am just glad Painter has more weapons at the guard position to handle more situations in the B1G than he has in the past.
There is B1G data for what you are saying though, as his minutes are trending downward (26,28,21,16). If his minutes stay in the teens, there could be justification for your claim as correct. But if he gets back to mid 20s, then it was just a situational thing where perhaps Cline & DM were smokin the nets, and there were just less minutes for CE.
I am just glad Painter has more weapons at the guard position to handle more situations in the B1G than he has in the past.
I think you are correct in the assessment, but I wouldn't read in to it much while on the bench. Carsen probably has little to no history of being sat for any reason while playing high school and AAU. It can be a little frustrating but the kid is as talented overall as CMP has had in a guard since Moore. CMP has given him plenty of leash...especially when Spike was out...but now with other options and Cline finally getting in to form, CMP has options if Edwards' play is hurting the team overall.
I agree. I think CEs minutes (or lack thereof) has more to do with other players playing well in spots than it does Edwards being punished.
In addition to the other things you mentioned, Cline seems to be trying to expand his game. He has made a couple of drives to the rim in each of the last three games and has pulled up for a couple of open mid-range-ish jumpers when they have presented themselves. Despite the fact that he hasn't made all those shots, it makes him a heck of a lot tougher to defend than if he just stands in the corner waiting for someone the kick the ball to him for a 3. He also had several possessions Sunday where he ran his defend ragged off screens. I like the fact that even if he didn't touch the ball, he was making his defender work hard. If he continues to play the way that he has been and hopefully makes improvements along the way, I think he has to get his fair share of minutes.
The kid is starting as a freshman, why would he not be happy? And I still don't get the he's the only one who can create his own shot thing. I saw Dakota do it again Sunday a couple of times, and Cline did as well. They don't drive all the way to the basket, but they do dribble drive and make pullup jumpers. And recently, when Carsen has tried to get to basket for a layup, he gets stuffed more often than not. The flashes we saw pre-conference were fools gold against weaker competition or non Big Ten style competition where going under the basket is more challenging. Carsen needs to learn from this and so far, he hasn't. The fact that he still starts means Matt wants him too.
Early on he could play through the mistakes without it costing us a basketball game. Those days are probably over for this season. Once conference play starts, our margin for error is thinner. Letting him learn is one thing. Letting continued mistakes put games at risk is another. I'm reminded of when some people questioned him not letting Kendall shoot with impunity and suggested CMP was making a mistake by not letting him take any shot he wanted. Kendall never adjusted, other players surpassed him, and now he's waiting to play at Nevada. Let's also not forget that PJ, Dakota, and Ryan are all shooting over 40% from 3 point range and that makes it even harder to justify letting a guy averaging 38% from the field and 30% from 3 point range dictate our offense. As it is, he still has taken more shots this season than anyone but Caleb Swanigan.
He will be fine.....let him start and try to get us a big lead thru the normal offense......if his shot isn't falling try the next man up and then bring CE back in when the other teams legs are dragging.
He has the speed...utilize it when the other team is dragging.
All good stuff ...Boiler Up!
He has the speed...utilize it when the other team is dragging.
All good stuff ...Boiler Up!
Wow... we must be watching different games. I think CMP has given him much more freedom then most freshman.
I agree, But I believe that not only is this good for Carsen, but good for incoming highly rated recruits and potential recruits. In my opinion you must take advantage of this period of youth, Carsen will only grow from this, and I think this is partially the reason we have seen Biggie grow so much from last year to now.
Painter has evolved as a coach and I like what I see, lets keep the momentum and go on a solid winning streak.
Nothing to read in CE time except you keep running with who is hot and playing well at that point in the game. CE has played extremely well and had his fair share of PT as because of this.
My God, but this is killing me. For about the 3rd time in a row I agreeing with TC4three. We have less margin of error during the Big Ten season, the games as sooo much tougher. During the Spain trip and weak Pre-Big Ten games, Carsen could shoot and drive all he wanted. But now, we need those possessions; we need those points. Look at Ohio State, an absolute squeaker. Let's say Carsen took three more shots in that game and he only makes one 2-pter (he shoots 38%, more or less the odds), we would probably have lost that game. So Carsen is just gonna have to learn to be more selective when he shoots and when he plays. And he is a great talent, but if he can't be coached and accept that, for all his potential, I don't want him here.
To be fair to Carsen, we have no indication that Carsen thinks he deserves more time or shots than he's getting. He's a true freshman starting on a top 25 team in a power conference. He's averaging 23 mpg and is 2nd on the team in field goal attempts. I certainly don't think he's being stifled and I doubt he does either.
If he's unhappy on the bench, that's fine. Competitors shouldn't be happy there. He should take a look at Dakota Mathias who went in last year and asked CMP how he could earn more minutes and then went out and worked on the things they told him he needed to improve on. The fact that Carsen has some areas he needs to improve on isn't a slap in the face. It's a reality with almost every player. Hell, Swanigan still has parts of his game he could improve on and he looks to be a front runner for conference player of the year.
He also has to realize that when Cline or Dakota catch fire in a game that might limit his minutes in that game through no fault of his own. The same would apply to other guards when Carsen plays well.
If he's unhappy on the bench, that's fine. Competitors shouldn't be happy there. He should take a look at Dakota Mathias who went in last year and asked CMP how he could earn more minutes and then went out and worked on the things they told him he needed to improve on. The fact that Carsen has some areas he needs to improve on isn't a slap in the face. It's a reality with almost every player. Hell, Swanigan still has parts of his game he could improve on and he looks to be a front runner for conference player of the year.
He also has to realize that when Cline or Dakota catch fire in a game that might limit his minutes in that game through no fault of his own. The same would apply to other guards when Carsen plays well.
No, He's a freshman. You can't give him a free leash. I think he's the type of player that needs to really be coached and taught during games. So much potential, but can make costly mistakes. He's going to be special for sure.
When we say that, we mean that Carsen is one of the only (or one of the very few: I think Vince is capable as well) players that can create his own shot against ELITE competition or ELITE defenses.
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He's a true freshman - don't let bad habits set in. Now's the time to fix them.
I do not know Carsen or know those that do. However, when looking at some local interviews when in high school to get a feel for him I recall him saying no sir, yes sir to all the questions asked in a local interview. He committed to Purdue "before" someone else did because he judged it to be a good fit for him. He has exceeded defensive expectations that I think most had for a freshman that scored as he did and does. All the intangibles, all the sources of input lead me to lean to a kid with a good head on his shoulders. He is a competitor and he has confidence, but I don't think he doesn't think he is above improving and doesn't understand the uptick in every game now where the other team knows your players AND the tendencies of the team. I think he is fine...just has a fire in him to be out there...
Only Ronnie Johnson had a longer leash. We all saw how that worked out. Having said that, CE has a much better head on his shoulders than RJ did.
I wouldn't say he's "evolved as a coach".... I really don't think he's changed much since he got here. He's always been a pretty good recruiter & has played the best talent, no matter what the class... starting with Kramer & then the Baby Boilers.
I would say he has evolved (not that this is an important argument), But I see Painter allowing players to play more open and I believe he hasn't been too quick to pull out a player for one mistake as I believe he did in the past.
As someone that tried to compare him to Keady many years ago the very first thing I noticed...years ago was Matt's freedom offensively. The reason why I noticed...or appeared to me as such was because I thought Gene was a little too tight and it hurt him in the tourney. I posted such at the time that I thought it "might" get Purdue beat a little more, but also allow a little more growth that could help in the tourney...again since I thought Gene was a little too tight...
I spent some time with Keady evaluating AAU players, and I loved him as a friend, but did not feel good about him as a coach of players (as opposed to an XXOOs coach) over the last several years. I felt most great players felt he was not one of the coaches they wanted to play for. And that saddened me, but it seemed pretty obvious.
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