Painter in tournament

[nagemj02]

Name me all the coaches in the last five years that have been fired that have a comparable winning percentage and length of service that Painter has. Please. I'll wait.

Just to clarify..........there is one coach, or more, who has been FIRED in the last five years that you would take before Painter? Really?

You're misquoting me. That wasn't exactly what I stated, but I'll list some comparable coaches for you anyway

The head coaches I know of with comparable career winning percentages who were FIRED in the last 5 years:

1. Rick Barnes (Texas: 2015)
2. Blaine Taylor (Old Dominion: 2014)
3. Ben Howland (UCLA: 2013)
4. Tubby Smith (Minnesota: 2013)
5. Bruce Weber (Illinois: 2012)
6. Rick Stansbury (Mississippi State: 2012)
7. Bruce Pearl (Tennessee: 2011)

Out of that group, I would be happy for Purdue to have Ben Howland right now.

 

[Dryfly88]

You're misquoting me. That wasn't exactly what I stated, but I'll list some comparable coaches for you anyway

The head coaches I know of with comparable career winning percentages who were FIRED in the last 5 years:

1. Rick Barnes (Texas: 2015)
2. Blaine Taylor (Old Dominion: 2014)
3. Ben Howland (UCLA: 2013)
4. Tubby Smith (Minnesota: 2013)
5. Bruce Weber (Illinois: 2012)
6. Rick Stansbury (Mississippi State: 2012)
7. Bruce Pearl (Tennessee: 2011)

Out of that group, I would be happy for Purdue to have Ben Howland right now.

Ok, so far that is 1 coach who was just hired by Mississippi State 1 year ago to a 4 year contract. How realistic is it that he would leave that job or be allowed to without big buy out?

You have 9 more to go.....

 

[Dryfly88]

no high school coach would step in an be ready...not that basketball is more so much more complicated, but that players in college can do many things high school players cannot and so the physicality difference would be huge. That said, Norm Sloan, John Wooden, Gene and Bo...all older people started in high school as many others not mentioned. None of this is to agree that it would be easy to get a better person for Purdue

No B1G team is going to hire a high school coach. Wooden went from high school to college but those days are loooong gone. I know that you know that, just don't want to fuel the haters thinking the next Wooden is coming from some high school.

 

[B-Westy]

You're misquoting me. That wasn't exactly what I stated, but I'll list some comparable coaches for you anyway

The head coaches I know of with comparable career winning percentages who were FIRED in the last 5 years:

1. Rick Barnes (Texas: 2015)
2. Blaine Taylor (Old Dominion: 2014)
3. Ben Howland (UCLA: 2013)
4. Tubby Smith (Minnesota: 2013)
5. Bruce Weber (Illinois: 2012)
6. Rick Stansbury (Mississippi State: 2012)
7. Bruce Pearl (Tennessee: 2011)

Out of that group, I would be happy for Purdue to have Ben Howland right now.

& all those programs (except Texas) are basically dumpster fires with their new coaches.

 

[JohnHoosierr]

You're misquoting me. That wasn't exactly what I stated, but I'll list some comparable coaches for you anyway

The head coaches I know of with comparable career winning percentages who were FIRED in the last 5 years:

1. Rick Barnes (Texas: 2015)
2. Blaine Taylor (Old Dominion: 2014)
3. Ben Howland (UCLA: 2013)
4. Tubby Smith (Minnesota: 2013)
5. Bruce Weber (Illinois: 2012)
6. Rick Stansbury (Mississippi State: 2012)
7. Bruce Pearl (Tennessee: 2011)

Out of that group, I would be happy for Purdue to have Ben Howland right now.

Ben howland would be an interesting candidate that I hadn't previously thought of. Him or Bryce drew would be good choices.

 

[Bluto71]

I un

Seems like there's a faction who believe painter underachieves in the tourney. Well, here are his results:

2007 - lost to eventual NC Florida. It was their smallest winning margin of the tourney.

2008 - Purdue was 6 seed, lost to 3 seed Xavier, who made it to e8.

2009 - as a 5 seed, beat 4 seed Washington on basically their home floor. Lost to UConn in S16, who was ranked #1 for most of the year.

2010 - overcame Hummel injury to get to S16, where we lost to eventual NC Duke.

2011 - upset by vcu. They also beat 1 seeded Kansas on way to F4. Shaka's coming out party.

2012 - as a 10 seed, beat 7 seed St. Mary's. Lost to Kansas by 3, who became eventual runner up.

2015 - as 9 seed, lost to 8 seed cincy. Behemoth Kentucky waiting in 2nd round.

2016 - we all know what happened.

So in the tourney, Purdue has lost to the following seeds: 1, 3, 1, 1, 11, 2, 9, 12.

Only 2 of those times did Purdue lose to worse seeds. With all of the upsets that happen in today's game, I don't think that's egregious. Especially because one of them, vcu, turned out to be really good. I should also point out that Purdue upset better seeded teams on 2 occasions.

It's crazy to call for a coach's head after a 26 win season. The pragmatic question is "OK, who's the proven tourney winner that you're going to hire once you fire painter?" There aren't many out there. Those that are proven tourney winners are legends and firmly entrenched in their current position. Outside of about 10 names in the college game, painter is the best option. No need to roll the dice on another up-and-comer. Chances are much more likely that things can get worse... Remember, we were in the top 20 most of the season.

I understand your point, but it is easier to defend a coach based on their past successes than rationalizing their failures.

 

[lbodel]

Seems like there's a faction who believe painter underachieves in the tourney. Well, here are his results:

2007 - lost to eventual NC Florida. It was their smallest winning margin of the tourney.

2008 - Purdue was 6 seed, lost to 3 seed Xavier, who made it to e8.

2009 - as a 5 seed, beat 4 seed Washington on basically their home floor. Lost to UConn in S16, who was ranked #1 for most of the year.

2010 - overcame Hummel injury to get to S16, where we lost to eventual NC Duke.

2011 - upset by vcu. They also beat 1 seeded Kansas on way to F4. Shaka's coming out party.

2012 - as a 10 seed, beat 7 seed St. Mary's. Lost to Kansas by 3, who became eventual runner up.

2015 - as 9 seed, lost to 8 seed cincy. Behemoth Kentucky waiting in 2nd round.

2016 - we all know what happened.

So in the tourney, Purdue has lost to the following seeds: 1, 3, 1, 1, 11, 2, 9, 12.

Only 2 of those times did Purdue lose to worse seeds. With all of the upsets that happen in today's game, I don't think that's egregious. Especially because one of them, vcu, turned out to be really good. I should also point out that Purdue upset better seeded teams on 2 occasions.

It's crazy to call for a coach's head after a 26 win season. The pragmatic question is "OK, who's the proven tourney winner that you're going to hire once you fire painter?" There aren't many out there. Those that are proven tourney winners are legends and firmly entrenched in their current position. Outside of about 10 names in the college game, painter is the best option. No need to roll the dice on another up-and-comer. Chances are much more likely that things can get worse... Remember, we were in the top 20 most of the season.

Overall, it's not great by any means, but it's also hardly underachieving. The biggest stat you mention is that Purdue has only lost to worse seeds twice (and also only lost in the first round twice).

There's obviously room to improve, but there's also a matter of a draw. We've lost to some VERY good/solid teams in the tournament. And while we shouldn't have lost to LR, there are also teams that go to the Sweet 16 that beat nobody on the way (had a few of those this year). It's the luck of a draw sometimes.

I think partly because of the hiatus from the tournament plus two "tough to stomach" tournament appearances being back to back, it seems like we don't do well in the tournament. Purdue also had the longest first round win streak of any team leading up to that Cincy game.

 

[lbodel]

I'd take Tubby Smith over Painter in a heartbeat.

Um, what? His best finish in six years was 6th place in the Big Ten and made it past the first round of the tournament one time. Sounds so much better!!

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Um, what? His best finish in six years was 6th place in the Big Ten and made it past the first round of the tournament one time. Sounds so much better!!

Minnesota is not a good BBall school at all. Tubby was destined to fail. You can't honestly say you wouldn't want a NC coach instead of Painter. Tubby won 5 SEC titles in 10 years. Put him at a respectable program like us and he would do a lot better.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Still missing the point, but whatever it's not worth arguing about.

& all those programs (except Texas) are basically dumpster fires with their new coaches.

Exactly. Nearly everyone of those schools got worse, not better, by firing their coach.

 

[njm8845]

Minnesota is not a good BBall school at all. Tubby was destined to fail. You can't honestly say you wouldn't want a NC coach instead of Painter. Tubby won 5 SEC titles in 10 years. Put him at a respectable program like us and he would do a lot better.

Was he also destined to fail at Texas Tech? His highest finish there is 7th (out of 10) in the league. So in the last 9 years, the most wins he's gotten is 23. Painter has averaged exactly 23 wins in the past 9 years.

At some point you have to say that Tubby isn't very impressive. Fired from Kentucky, fired from Minnesota... I doubt he has more than 2 years left at Texas Tech.

It's so funny how somebody can crap on Painter but then want a coach who hasn't done anything in a decade. Tubby only went to 1 final four - and that was 19 years ago, with Pitino's players.

 

[BoilerFan#35]

Was he also destined to fail at Texas Tech? His highest finish there is 7th (out of 10) in the league. So in the last 9 years, the most wins he's gotten is 23. Painter has averaged exactly 23 wins in the past 9 years.

At some point you have to say that Tubby isn't very impressive. Fired from Kentucky, fired from Minnesota... I doubt he has more than 2 years left at Texas Tech.

It's so funny how somebody can crap on Painter but then want a coach who hasn't done anything in a decade. Tubby only went to 1 final four - and that was 19 years ago, with Pitino's players.

Also been to the elite eight 4 times and you forgot to mention that FF turned into a national championship. Painter has been to the S16 twice in 11 years... Tubby has been to the the S16 OR deeper 9 times in 25 years.

 

[tjreese]

I'm reminded of the commercial from time to time

 

[nagemj02]

& all those programs (except Texas) are basically dumpster fires with their new coaches.

Old Dominion is improving in the 2 seasons since Taylor was fired. Steve Alford has helped guide UCLA to the Sweet 16 in 2 out of the 3 years since Howland was fired.

As for my 10 candidates comment in response to some other comments above, I never stated that they would be 10 candidates that are all available RIGHT NOW. That's why I could name Ben Howland (Mississippi State) when someone wanted to know about the fired HC in the last 5 years....that I believe are capable of improving the program's success moreso than Coach Painter.

There are some legendary high school coaches. Morgan Wooten (DeMatha in D.C. area) was offered the N.C. State job in 1980 after Norm Sloan left for Florida. He turned it down, stayed at DeMatha and Jim Valvano became the next head coach at N.C. State. Coaches similar to Wooten around the country are what I was referring to when I suggested that even some high school coaches might be a better fit at this point.

 

[nagemj02]

Was he also destined to fail at Texas Tech? His highest finish there is 7th (out of 10) in the league. So in the last 9 years, the most wins he's gotten is 23. Painter has averaged exactly 23 wins in the past 9 years.

At some point you have to say that Tubby isn't very impressive. Fired from Kentucky, fired from Minnesota... I doubt he has more than 2 years left at Texas Tech.

It's so funny how somebody can crap on Painter but then want a coach who hasn't done anything in a decade. Tubby only went to 1 final four - and that was 19 years ago, with Pitino's players.

At the same token, you can also state that he has a better career winning percentage than Painter (and obviously more overall wins). Also, I believe he was 2-0 when going head-to-head vs. Gene Keady in his career (Georgia in 1996 NCAA's and non-conference win with Kentucky in '97-'98 season).

Tubby Smith: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/tubby-smith-1.html

Matt Painter: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/matt-painter-1.html

 

[Dryfly88]

The AD doesn't have to hire a proven winner to choose the next head coach. Painter wasn't a proven winner when he became the Purdue head coach, so why would someone else have to be? If I looked though all of the DI head coaches, assistant coaches, and even some coaches that have resigned or been fired over... say the last five seasons or so...I am 100% confident I could name 10 or more candidates that I would rather see as Purdue's head coach. There's probably some good DII, DIII, and even great HS coaches that have enough recruiting connections and coaching ability to be Purdue's head coach and do well. I think it's ridiculous to believe that Painter is one of the only people that could do well (but still not great) as a HC at Purdue.

Old Dominion is improving in the 2 seasons since Taylor was fired. Steve Alford has helped guide UCLA to the Sweet 16 in 2 out of the 3 years since Howland was fired.

As for my 10 candidates comment in response to some other comments above, I never stated that they would be 10 candidates that are all available RIGHT NOW. That's why I could name Ben Howland (Mississippi State) when someone wanted to know about the fired HC in the last 5 years....that I believe are capable of improving the program's success moreso than Coach Painter.

There are some legendary high school coaches. Morgan Wooten (DeMatha in D.C. area) was offered the N.C. State job in 1980 after Norm Sloan left for Florida. He turned it down, stayed at DeMatha and Jim Valvano became the next head coach at N.C. State. Coaches similar to Wooten around the country are what I was referring to when I suggested that even some high school coaches might be a better fit at this point.

If you re-read your earlier post, you clearly claimed that you could name 10 coaches you would rather have than CMP. I'm not mis-quoting you, I'm using your quote.

So far you have named Howland. I have refuted that by saying he just signed a contract 1 year ago. Even if we leave him on the list you still have 9 to go......

Get real about the high school coaches. There is no way PU or any other B1G program is going to hire a high school coach. But if you want to throw that in the mix of 9 more coaches go ahead and list who they are.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you, but I have consistently challenged anyone that wants CMP gone to list his replacement. So far I have not seen a very stellar list of candidates. Certainly no one that I would feel confident would do better than CMP. But if you disagree that is fine, show us the list of 10 you claimed earlier and we can discuss their merits individually.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

At the same token, you can also state that he has a better career winning percentage than Painter (and obviously more overall wins). Also, I believe he was 2-0 when going head-to-head vs. Gene Keady in his career (Georgia in 1996 NCAA's) and non-conference win with Kentucky in '97-'98 season.

Tubby Smith: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/tubby-smith-1.html

Matt Painter: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/matt-painter-1.html

Winning 76% of his games at UK isn't all that impressive. It's the bluest of blue bloods, after all.

His career before UK was impressive, but since UK his results have been very disappointing. Minnesota should not be any harder to win at than Purdue. It is by far the dominant program in its state and it is located in the Twin Cities.

 

[nagemj02]

Winning 76% of his games at UK isn't all that impressive. It's the bluest of blue bloods, after all.

His career before UK was impressive, but since UK his results have been very disappointing. Minnesota should not be any harder to win at than Purdue. It is by far the dominant program in its state and it is located in the Twin Cities.

It's still winning. Billy Gillespie seemed to struggle with it in his two seasons there. Eddie Sutton was about the same as Tubby in his first three seasons there but struggled in his final season at UK ('88-'89) after the NCAA sanctions were placed on the program that season. I still think Tubby is a pretty good coach, especially at his age.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

It's still winning. Billy Gillespie seemed to struggle with it in his two seasons there. Eddie Sutton was about the same as Tubby in his first three seasons there but struggled in his final season at UK ('88-'89) after the NCAA sanctions were placed on the program that season. I still think Tubby is a pretty good coach, especially at his age.

One could argue that Smith took over a much stronger program from Pitino than Gillespie did from Smith.

I don't think Tubby is a bad coach, but I think that his career when not at Kentucky is a better indicator of his ability to win when not at Kentucky.

 

[purdue4sure]

Old Dominion is improving in the 2 seasons since Taylor was fired. Steve Alford has helped guide UCLA to the Sweet 16 in 2 out of the 3 years since Howland was fired.

As for my 10 candidates comment in response to some other comments above, I never stated that they would be 10 candidates that are all available RIGHT NOW. That's why I could name Ben Howland (Mississippi State) when someone wanted to know about the fired HC in the last 5 years....that I believe are capable of improving the program's success moreso than Coach Painter.

There are some legendary high school coaches. Morgan Wooten (DeMatha in D.C. area) was offered the N.C. State job in 1980 after Norm Sloan left for Florida. He turned it down, stayed at DeMatha and Jim Valvano became the next head coach at N.C. State. Coaches similar to Wooten around the country are what I was referring to when I suggested that even some high school coaches might be a better fit at this point.

Unnamed, hypothetical coaches who are "similar to Wooten" is not a rational argument. Wooten never proved he could coach a Div 1 college team. Being offered a Div 1 job is not proof that he will be a great Div 1 college coach. There are thousands of people alive today who have been offered Div 1 coaching jobs. Does that make them better than MP? I just don't understand you guys ignoring facts and trying to prove your point with a bunch of silly hypotheticals.

 

[Do Dah Day]

You're misquoting me. That wasn't exactly what I stated, but I'll list some comparable coaches for you anyway

The head coaches I know of with comparable career winning percentages who were FIRED in the last 5 years:

1. Rick Barnes (Texas: 2015)
2. Blaine Taylor (Old Dominion: 2014)
3. Ben Howland (UCLA: 2013)
4. Tubby Smith (Minnesota: 2013)
5. Bruce Weber (Illinois: 2012)
6. Rick Stansbury (Mississippi State: 2012)
7. Bruce Pearl (Tennessee: 2011)

Out of that group, I would be happy for Purdue to have Ben Howland right now.

Sometimes I think that posters on this board want to replace Painter so they will have even MORE fodder to post about ... like they don't have any life and need to fill more hours on this board.

 

[Do Dah Day]

If you re-read your earlier post, you clearly claimed that you could name 10 coaches you would rather have than CMP. I'm not mis-quoting you, I'm using your quote.

So far you have named Howland. I have refuted that by saying he just signed a contract 1 year ago. Even if we leave him on the list you still have 9 to go......

Get real about the high school coaches. There is no way PU or any other B1G program is going to hire a high school coach. But if you want to throw that in the mix of 9 more coaches go ahead and list who they are.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you, but I have consistently challenged anyone that wants CMP gone to list his replacement. So far I have not seen a very stellar list of candidates. Certainly no one that I would feel confident would do better than CMP. But if you disagree that is fine, show us the list of 10 you claimed earlier and we can discuss their merits individually.

THIS!!!! .... yes, THIS!!!!! .... If you can define the problem, please clearly define the solution, or stay silent ....

 

[Do Dah Day]

It's still winning. Billy Gillespie seemed to struggle with it in his two seasons there. Eddie Sutton was about the same as Tubby in his first three seasons there but struggled in his final season at UK ('88-'89) after the NCAA sanctions were placed on the program that season. I still think Tubby is a pretty good coach, especially at his age.

SO now we're debating the merits of ONE FREAKING OLD GUY as to whether he would be better ...... OMFG

 

[BuilderBob6]

Minnesota is not a good BBall school at all. Tubby was destined to fail. You can't honestly say you wouldn't want a NC coach instead of Painter. Tubby won 5 SEC titles in 10 years. Put him at a respectable program like us and he would do a lot better.

He won the NC with somebody else's players. Look at his record in the NCAA after that at a blue blood like Kentucky. Dude is 64 years old.

BTW, how many "respectable" programs went after him after Kentucky....or since? I guess he turned down all the great schools to go to Minny.

You're reaching, not even close.

 

[Schnelk]

Hate to say it but hiring Howland would be akin to hiring Sampson. No thanks.

 

[BuilderBob6]

Hate to say it but hiring Howland would be akin to hiring Sampson. No thanks.

Yep........and Pearl is a cheatin ass wipe. Weber is a Keady guy........thought they wanted to get away from Keady clones?.........Barnes might be a top five all time choker in the Dance, wonder what this group would say about all the talent he has wasted. Tubby will be coaching from a wheelchair before long......and the other guys have won nothing at weak basketball programs. Nice group.

 

[purdue4sure]

Based on the criteria people have been throwing around here, I suppose you guys would also take Mike Davis over MP?

 

[mathboy]

Based on the criteria people have been throwing around here, I suppose you guys would also take Mike Davis over MP?

When you say "you guys" I know you are referring to the 2-3 posters that have decided Matt Painter can do no right. That's okay. They are welcome to their opinion. I just want to make a statement that not everyone on this board has the same opinion.

...and no! I would not take that loser Mike Davis over Painter in any combination of circumstances.

 

[purdue4sure]

When you say "you guys" I know you are referring to the 2-3 posters that have decided Matt Painter can do no right. That's okay. They are welcome to their opinion. I just want to make a statement that not everyone on this board has the same opinion.

...and no! I would not take that loser Mike Davis over Painter in any combination of circumstances.

Yes. They know who they are. There are those who are acting as if someone who had a previous run of success could do it here. I've seen people say they want Howland, Steve Fisher, and Tubby over MP. If all they want is a guy with a FF on his resume, crean should be available about the time MP's contract expires.

 

[Dryfly88]

Yes. They know who they are. There are those who are acting as if someone who had a previous run of success could do it here. I've seen people say they want Howland, Steve Fisher, and Tubby over MP. If all they want is a guy with a FF on his resume, crean should be available about the time MP's contract expires.

Still waiting for the list of potential candidates. Funny how it is so easy to bitch and whine but much more difficult to come up with a legitimate solution.

Anyone that would take any of the people listed so far are simply just looking to replace CMP. They don't really care about the results of the replacement, they just want CMP gone. Those are not serious replacements.

 

[lbodel]

It's still winning. Billy Gillespie seemed to struggle with it in his two seasons there. Eddie Sutton was about the same as Tubby in his first three seasons there but struggled in his final season at UK ('88-'89) after the NCAA sanctions were placed on the program that season. I still think Tubby is a pretty good coach, especially at his age.

Then answer this...why are no "respectable" basketball schools biting when they've had numerous opportunities to snatch him up?

 

[Do Dah Day]

Then answer this...why are no "respectable" basketball schools biting when they've had numerous opportunities to snatch him up?

That's an easy answer .... the eyes of the guys on this board are far superior to the experts. That' has been stated many times ... by the owners of those eyes.

 

[nagemj02]

That's an easy answer .... the eyes of the guys on this board are far superior to the experts. That' has been stated many times ... by the owners of those eyes.

Who are the "experts"?

 

[nagemj02]

Hate to say it but hiring Howland would be akin to hiring Sampson. No thanks.

How is that the case? You don't want a head coach that has proven to be a good defensive coach, a good recruiter, and taken a program to a Final Four 3 seasons in a row at one point (including one national title game appearance) but you want a head coach that has been a good defensive coach, an average-to-good recruiter, and has taken his program to 2 Sweet 16's but no further than that in 11 seasons?

I know it's not just you, but it doesn't really make any sense for fans to believe that this is the best head coach for Purdue when there's proof in the results of other HC's out there that "speak" otherwise. Some of those HC's and others could be available in the very near future. It seems logical that a change would be wise in the near future, but a lot of fans are in denial about the program's potential under the current head coach. There's already 11 seasons worth of data for people to draw their own conclusions. If fans are satisfied with just Sweet 16 apperances and nothing more than that, I don't know what to tell them because the program is capable of better.

 

[lbodel]

How is that the case? You don't want a head coach that has proven to be a good defensive coach, a good recruiter, and taken a program to a Final Four 3 seasons in a row at one point (including one national title game appearance) but you want a head coach that has been a good defensive coach, an average-to-good recruiter, and has taken his program to 2 Sweet 16's but no further than that in 11 seasons?

I know it's not just you, but it doesn't really make any sense for fans to believe that this is the best head coach for Purdue when there's proof in the results of other HC's out there that "speak" otherwise. Some of those HC's and others could be available in the very near future. It seems logical that a change would be wise in the near future, but a lot of fans are in denial about the program's potential under the current head coach. There's already 11 seasons worth of data for people to draw their own conclusions. If fans are satisfied with just Sweet 16 apperances and nothing more than that, I don't know what to tell them because the program is capable of better.

Read about his firing...

-There were questionable recruiting practices (and a formal case against one of their recruits was basically screwed up by the NCAA and had to be dropped). Later on, the parent basically admitted UCLA cheated. He hired questionable assistants (one of which later was part of an NCAA investigation and banned from working with the athletic department he worked in at the time).

-He was criticized for having too bland of an offense

-Attendance dropped during his tenure

-The last 5 years, they didn't go past the second round when they did make the tournament

-There were many transfers, players kicked off the team, etc. because of the questionable people that were taken on


I mean, are some of these make or break for a coach? Not necessarily. However, for the complaints being lodged about Painter - these "alternatives" are not exactly fixing things that people complain about....

 

[mathboy]

We all want a competative team. A team that is a threat to go all the way almost every year. A perennial top 10 team. No question about that. The issue is how do we get there from here, right? Can Matt take us to that point in our program or not?

In my opinion, Matt Painter has the coaching ability, and the drive to learn what he needs to learn. Where he has struggled in the past is recruiting. He needs to recruit some high-end players to get us where we want to get. No amount of coaching can replace fundamental skills and athletic ability.

We have seen him coach role players up to competative levels in the BIG. We have seen him coach high-end players to be even better, if only he can get them into the program. That is why the 2017 class is so important to our program, and to my evaluation of coach Matt Painter. I see him being very cautious about the quality of the kid he is bringing into the program.

Any turn over in coaching sets us back years. We should not do it unless there is a clear case that Matt is not improving year over year. So far, his progress is trending upward, with each of the last 3 years showing significant improvement over the previous year. The trend is important. The 11 year average is a worthless measure when attempting to understand the direction of the program.

 

[Dryfly88]

How is that the case? You don't want a head coach that has proven to be a good defensive coach, a good recruiter, and taken a program to a Final Four 3 seasons in a row at one point (including one national title game appearance) but you want a head coach that has been a good defensive coach, an average-to-good recruiter, and has taken his program to 2 Sweet 16's but no further than that in 11 seasons?

I know it's not just you, but it doesn't really make any sense for fans to believe that this is the best head coach for Purdue when there's proof in the results of other HC's out there that "speak" otherwise. Some of those HC's and others could be available in the very near future. It seems logical that a change would be wise in the near future, but a lot of fans are in denial about the program's potential under the current head coach. There's already 11 seasons worth of data for people to draw their own conclusions. If fans are satisfied with just Sweet 16 apperances and nothing more than that, I don't know what to tell them because the program is capable of better.

Howland just signed with a new school 1 year ago. He isn't leaving. We are still waiting for the other 9 candidates that you said you could name to replace CMP........

Just admit that you want CMP gone but you really don't have a better replacement that is available or realistic. You have every right to have the opinion that you want a different coach. I'm not arguing that with you. I just want to see the 10 guys that you said would be better. I don't believe they are out there, but am certainly willing to debate any names that are brought up.

 

[Do Dah Day]

Who are the "experts"?

Generally, the experts are people who earn their living evaluating talent. They vary, but are often D1 coaches, or ESPN analysts, or Professional scouts, whoever states an opinion that is in conflict with those eyes on this board that know everything about college basketball.

There are some damn good evaluators on this Board. They are the ones who generally keep quiet, never call someone else a moron or an idiot, give insightful evaluations of probable outcomes, and mention from time to time the years they have spent coaching or recruiting.

As I asked one of those expert-eyes, and never received an answer, "Did he think he could offer expert advice to a production line supervisor who was not meeting projections, or a heart surgeon who had a patient die, or a sales manager who's company was losing sales. Was he an expert at everything that he did not do, or just college basketball?

 

[Chuchumutha]

We all want a competative team. A team that is a threat to go all the way almost every year. A perennial top 10 team. No question about that. The issue is how do we get there from here, right? Can Matt take us to that point in our program or not?

In my opinion, Matt Painter has the coaching ability, and the drive to learn what he needs to learn. Where he has struggled in the past is recruiting. He needs to recruit some high-end players to get us where we want to get. No amount of coaching can replace fundamental skills and athletic ability.

We have seen him coach role players up to competative levels in the BIG. We have seen him coach high-end players to be even better, if only he can get them into the program. That is why the 2017 class is so important to our program, and to my evaluation of coach Matt Painter. I see him being very cautious about the quality of the kid he is bringing into the program.

Any turn over in coaching sets us back years. We should not do it unless there is a clear case that Matt is not improving year over year. So far, his progress is trending upward, with each of the last 3 years showing significant improvement over the previous year. The trend is important. The 11 year average is a worthless measure when attempting to understand the direction of the program.

Bingo! I am not on the fence when it comes to Painter. I don't even debate replacements because he's not going anywhere. And I support him because, currently, I truly believe he gives us our best chance to reach our goals as compared to realistic alternatives. However, it is possible that I may jump on that fence or completely over dependent on his 2017 recruiting. This is the most critical class in his tenure. He's known it for years. He has the resources. He has oodles of talent in his backyard. The program is on the upswing. No excuses. Get er done, Matt.

 

[Schnelk]

Nage, I cringed at the name Howland because he and Sampson have both been cheaters in the past. Can you imagine this place if we brought in a known rule breaker? It'd be way worse than now, if that's at all possible...