OT: Paris
- Thread starter BoilermakerMid
- Start date
Are you of the opinion that every situation is black and white, and that there's going to be a script you can follow? If, God forbid, I ever found myself in such a situation, I'd have to decide then and there what to do. There's no canned answer I can give you, but I will tell you this much: I would not just sit around and wait to be killed. First choice would be to escape. But if I had to, I would shoot my way out as a last resort. I'm not there to be a hero, so yes, you're wrong in your assumption (stunner). You're on your own. If I could help you I would, but my own family is my first priority. You have the right to defend yourself. Be righteous and deny yourself that ability if you choose. It doesn't make me a coward for not helping you. It makes you the fool for being unprepared.
Yes, sneaking out would be the best choice, no doubt. You can read my previous response to Cainer on that. "Guns blazing" would be a last-resort option. What's an unarmed person's last-resort? "Please don't kill me, I'm unarmed!"???
You are trying to apply a rational, carefully planned analysis to suggest the dangers of trying to defend yourself, perhaps loved ones and friends is dangerous and futile. You want to isolate yourself, hide and that is your only solution to survive. You must think you would be in control, but you would not. Now your analysis falls apart right away because there is nothing rational about three heavily armed terrorists on a suicide mission taking control of an entertainment venue with hundreds of unarmed occupants. They have one goal in mind and that is to kill everyone in that venue. Once you accept the fact you can not debate your way out of harm's way and you either fight for your life or submit to inevitable Death you might find your instinct to live would allow you to do whatever you possibly can to try and survive. That means you accept you just either kill the terrorist or He will kill you and you die. If everyone in that venue thinks hiding and hoping is a defense it is over and you are ****ed!
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Well, if we are such a laughing stock it is time to say the rest of the world take care of your own issues. Statements like the US being a laughing stock and people apologizing for the US are an embarrassment. Seriously go call someone else then when there is an issue.
I may add the US gun laws are fine-try enforcing them and when certain demographics and areas are taken out of stats the US is just fine.
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-Statistics show that these mass shooting/killings/terrorist attacks occur in gun free zones. Wonder why that is?
-Could that gun slinging accountant do much? Maybe maybe not. An armed veteran, retired cop, armed cop, armed soldier off duty, gun enthusiast that shoots a lot and therefore has some of that training you mention-highly probable they could have.
Or maybe another crazy Muslim would have just joined in the rampage. When I hear the "good" guy "bad" guy analogy, I just want to gag. Who are we dealing with the Lone Ranger and Black Bart? There is little or no evidence to make me think even if Dirty Harry had been present the outcome would have been any different. They did not fear for their own deaths, they sought it out.
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Well, I will say that I do not disagree with the last sentece.
Not sure about the rest of the post. It just sounds like yes why bother defending yourself, one is doomed anyway.
CNN had an expert on yesterday who said the strict gun laws in Europe make those counties a rich target in an environment where the black market for sophisticated automatic weapons is strong. Terrorists with automatic rifles, and grenades outgun most police departments. The cry after Ferguson to halt providing surplus military equipment to police departments could be exactly to wrong decision for the U.S. To make at a time when our government leaders are welcoming tens of thousands of Middle Eastern immigrants. Nineteen terrorists on 911 and a handful of terrorists in London, Madrid and Paris as well as Fort Hood and Chattanooga have established a grim, forboding and deadly kill ratio. Translated, if one 100th of one percent of 100,000 immigrants are terrorists they can wreak hell on earth in cities in America.
Probably not my best post but my point is even if you are armed and that opens a whole other can of worms because other radical Muslims could have been at the same event and joined in the carnage if they can carry weapons too. Imagine what would happen if you had 100 other radical Muslims at the concert who could legally carry weapons.
Eliminate soft targets and the degree of difficulty for terrorists who are committed to wreaking havoc is raised considerably. Many police in Europe are unarmed and terrorists are not stupid. They are not attacking hard targets. They do not want to die without doing damage. If there were 100 additional armed Muslims at the concert you would see mass deportations of Muslims and Huey, Louie and Dooney on the debate stage last night would not have had so much difficulty identifying who our enemy is in the war on terror.
France has a rather unique problem because they have about 5 million Muslims as citizens, which goes back to its colonial days in North Africa: Algeria, etc. They really can't deport French citizens.
And the lesson to be learned is do not allow mass immigration into your society of people who do not want to to be integrated because of religious/legalistic ideology. When people refuse to live by their nation of choice's laws you have the foundation of what is happening today in Europe. America had better learn.
Today I have encountered:
-People who do not know how to deal with a 4 way stop sign
-People who take a cart full of items through a self-checkout at a grocery store
-People who struggle to use a credit card swipe machine at a checkout
-People who can't walk and talk on a cell phone and walk into someone
-People who are in line to order a coffee for 5 minutes and are up to order and don't know what they want
There aren't a lot of people I encounter throughout a day that I think "gee, I hope they have a gun on them to take care of an active shooter situation".
This topic is incredibly complex, not just with France, but with all of Europe and for the United States. The people saying "this" or "that" is the answer - are clueless. As has been stated again and again, this isn't something that couldn't happen in the US. Dozens of people in the US have been arrested so far with respects to being linked with ISIS.
As for refugees, France actually has not taken very many compared to other countries. Going back to the the Charlie Hebdo attack - those lead guys were French citizens. And where'd they meet some of their accomplices? Prison. Another big problem is that these people are getting radicalized and organizing in prison systems.
One of the bigger problems is that with the internet/social media/etc., there's SO much to monitor and connect and it's a matter of manpower. France has flat out said it doesn't have the resources necessary to follow everything it does. And it's the same for most the EU - and quite frankly, I'm sure it's similar with the US. It's not that they aren't good at their jobs, it's a LOT to keep track of. And it's not that they are underfunding intelligence agencies or anything - they could be ten times the size and still not where they need to be to follow the amount of intelligence they could be.
There are just so many prongs to the issue that it really is an incredibly tough crisis to figure out. Dumbing it down to individual issues like gun control, concealed carry laws, immigrants, etc. is dealing with one small prong of the overall problem.
Excuse me, at a moment when our leadership, against the will of the electorate, has chosen to bring hundreds of thousands of Middke Eastern immigrants of Muslim faith into our country and scatter them in cities, towns, villages and hamlets around the country immigration is a BIG deal and it's today, next month or next year when it would be too late. When we know the nineteen Muslim young men perpetrated 911 and we have the Boston bombers, an the Chattanooga shooter and numerous other examples of non citizens who have killed Innocent Americans we should do more than let the President say "trust me" when his oath of office requires him to preserve and protect the citizens of the United States and not the immigrants from war torn Syria. This is not like Cuba or Viet Nam, these people are dedicated to the destruction of Western civilization. They are out to kill us and our loved ones and friends. We either destroy them or they will destroy us.
We're bringing in hundreds of thousand immigrants? Must be one helluva secret cause you're the first to report it.
Dispute numbers all you like. It's been pretty
Create all these hypothetical arguments you want. I'll simply point back to the real situation that happened 48 hours ago in a city/country that's a gun control advocate's wet dream.
So you don't think it could have happened in the United States?
And you can call them hypothetical arguments, I call it I don't want someone opening fire into a crowd who has no training trying to be a hero.
You have to have training to drive a car. Would you be ok with mandating training in order to? Police officers have to get tested multiple times a year in order to maintain their role using a gun. Should it be easier for citizens?
he police didn't enter the Bacalan Theater for almost 2 hours after the attack.
Much of the reason for deployments to the Balkans back in the mid to late nineties, and pretty much wrapped up in 2004, dealt with gaining intelligence and attempting to stop the market for arms flow from former eastern block countries, to western Europe. Needless to say the black market for arms flow was pretty healthy then. Never a shortage of targets/people,areas that needed surveillance.
Well that I get, a lot of untrained people carrying guns is not a panacea. It could definitely add some confusion. That said, I will just say I believe in the right to defend myself and state that these attacks seem to occur at soft targets where guns are outlawed.
The Associated Press, addressing Secretary Clinton's comments from Saturday night's debate that 3,000 people had died as a result of gunshots since the last Democratic debate was declared false. The AP reported that slightly less than 1,000 persons a month had died from gun violence this year. That would include urban violence, drug related shootings and gang bangers.
So just under 11,000 have been killed from gun violence this year? That's pretty low! Pat on the back. Great job.
10,000….hundreds of thousands….same difference?
Yes, the US accepts a certain number of refugees a year - and has done so for decades. This is completely separate from Syrian refugees. These come from all over the world - including Europe.
That figure rebuts ann erroneous and highly dubious figure suggesting almost 40,000 deaths from guns, or almost a 300 percent difference. Perspective, more than 40,000 have already died from drug overdoses and a number almost as large have died in automobile accidents.
"I" never said hundreds of thousands but Obama wants to open up to more "Syrians"
Was merely providing proof from a documented liberal media
Hope you enjoyed it
We accepted hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese and Cubans, but can you think on one incident of terrorism involving people from either country?
The western world has been pretty ashamed of itself in hindsight by not making much, if any accommodation for jews during WWII. I'm afraid we may be going down this same path again. I think we need to screen carefully but we will have to take our share of the refugees. I don't think you build a wall and just let people die on the other side of it, even if it would be easier.
It sure would touch more compassionate senses in Americans if so many of the pictures did not show pictures of strong, healthy looking males who look to be 18-25. No old women or old men and no mothers or little girls!
We can take who we want to and if its only the children and their mothers that is better not doing anything. If you want to exclude men totally and boys older than 12 that again is better than no help at all.
You guys simply don't understand the motivation of these jihadists. Virtually every one of them is a young, horny greaseball who isn't getting any snatch. They have been brainwashed with so much Islam that they truly believe that if they die killing a bunch of infidels - it's a holy war to them - that they will instantly go to paradise and be awarded an houri from Allah. Then they begin rolling in the hair pie of 72 virgins.
I realize that this sounds totally wacko. But that's what these moslem goons actually believe.
I realize that this sounds totally wacko. But that's what these moslem goons actually believe.
Apparently as do you too.
If, and I know that is a big IF, you want to broaden your thinking a little but, why don't you read this piece:
What I Discovered From Interviewing Imprisoned ISIS Fighters
Apparently they just might be a little bit more human than what we MIGHT want to give them credit for. It sounds like their lives just may have been disrupted by some outside force at an early stage and they are looking for some identity in their lives.
http://www.thenation.com/article/what-i-discovered-from-interviewing-isis-prisoners/
If you want the Readers Digest version: http://crooksandliars.com/2015/11/researcher-what-i-learned-interviewing
