One Really Violent Day

[bonefish1]

These are valid questions, which are something for the legal system to wrestle with, but all of it still counts as due process. Getting "tuned up" is outside of due process. So, while we could have a discussion about how many chances someone gets or what the sentence should be for crimes, we can't really get there if your solution to those sentences not being harsh enough is that someone loses the protection of the constitution. Or are you suggesting that the constitution should be amended such that due process is no longer guaranteed? Or that it could be forfeited?

I'm of the opinion that when you decide to break the law, you've broken your contract with the constitution and now you're on your own.
First time offenders, fine. They get a second chance. Someone with a rap sheet? Nope. That person's demonstrated that they're not interested in playing by society's rules. I've got no sympathy for what happens to them, whether that's getting tuned up by the cops or shot by a gang banger.

 

[bonefish1]

It's also funny that anything that's of a sort of scientific consensus that disagrees with you can be discounted because it comes from "lefty-libs," but you accept Christian organizations as a good source for science criticism. Like I could link you to Answers in Genesis and they'd have a similarly authoritative article about how the science that says the Earth is 4.5 billion years old is actually based on poor research, but that doesn't make the claim that it's 6-10k years old any less ridiculous. Never once in the history of humanity has religion disproved science. Only better science does that. But, since you asked for a reference:

• American Psychological Association - https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking
• American Academy of Pediatrics - https://publications.aap.org/aapnew...punishment-draws-on?autologincheck=redirected
• American Academy of Child and AdolescentPsychiatry- https://www.aacap.org/aacap/Policy_Statements/2012/Policy_Statement_on_Corporal_Punishment.aspx
• American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children - https://apsac.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/AAP-statement-APSAC-letterhead-FINAL.pdf
• National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practitioners - https://www.jpedhc.org/article/S0891-5245(11)00228-8/fulltext

There's a few. I know, I know, these are all "lefty-lib" organizations referring to research done by "lefty-lib social behaviorists," so you are completely justified in ignoring them because, you know, you turned out fine so spanking must not cause any harm, actually.

Now, if you want to say you think the science is wrong, that's your prerogative. But you don't get to pretend to be in line with it when it very clearly does not support your position.

Hey, if you want to negotiate with your kids, then that's your parenting style.
I was brought to realize there were unpleasant consequences for bad behavior. It worked well on me and has worked well for me as a parent.
But from an ideological standpoint, I would feel comfortable guessing that most anti-spanking adults are liberals. I would also guess that most of the kids needing safe spaces, coloring their hair purple, marching in pro-hamas demonstrations, etc, are also liberal. Do you see the correlation?

 

[TwinDegrees2]

"My boy was a good boy, he was going to church and trying to turn his life around"
You mean those types of criminals who can seem to get out of the habit of getting in trouble?

As far as Gaza, it's pretty much a parking lot now. On to Beirut and then Tehran.

I'm with you....especially with Iran. Take out the big boys one by one until you get them all.

 

[JBoiler23]

I'm of the opinion that when you decide to break the law, you've broken your contract with the constitution and now you're on your own.
First time offenders, fine. They get a second chance. Someone with a rap sheet? Nope. That person's demonstrated that they're not interested in playing by society's rules. I've got no sympathy for what happens to them, whether that's getting tuned up by the cops or shot by a gang banger.

Where does this opinion come from? Because there's nothing in the constitution that suggests it's protections are conditional, as you suggest.

 

[JBoiler23]

Hey, if you want to negotiate with your kids, then that's your parenting style.
I was brought to realize there were unpleasant consequences for bad behavior. It worked well on me and has worked well for me as a parent.
But from an ideological standpoint, I would feel comfortable guessing that most anti-spanking adults are liberals. I would also guess that most of the kids needing safe spaces, coloring their hair purple, marching in pro-hamas demonstrations, etc, are also liberal. Do you see the correlation?

You THINK it worked well for you and for your kids, but the research would suggest that all of you would be better off had you not been spanked.

Also, this is the second time you've mentioned people coloring their hair purple as if it's somehow a bad thing. What's that about?

 

[Katscratch]

Hey, if you want to negotiate with your kids, then that's your parenting style.
I was brought to realize there were unpleasant consequences for bad behavior. It worked well on me and has worked well for me as a parent.
But from an ideological standpoint, I would feel comfortable guessing that most anti-spanking adults are liberals. I would also guess that most of the kids needing safe spaces, coloring their hair purple, marching in pro-hamas demonstrations, etc, are also liberal. Do you see the correlation?

I never hit my kids.

I do not negotiate with my kids.

My kids are fully aware that there are real consequences for bad behavior.

My kids are some very squared away, hard-working individuals.

 

[JBoiler23]

I never hit my kids.

I do not negotiate with my kids.

My kids are fully aware that there are real consequences for bad behavior.

My kids are some very squared away, hard-working individuals.

Good point, Bone seems to think experiencing physical pain is the only thing that qualifies as a consequence (when there are clearly many other things that can serve that purpose) and that the only alternative to spanking is negotiation (which is also clearly not true).

Insert Riveting saying we're the same person talking ourselves below.

 

[Katscratch]

I'm of the opinion that when you decide to break the law, you've broken your contract with the constitution and now you're on your own.

All good. And to confirm that someone has broken the law they need to be convicted in a court of law, not summary-justice on Donald Trump’s “really violent day” where a President tells police to forget about the rule law and dole out beatings on the spot.

 

[Katscratch]

Good point, Bone seems to think experiencing physical pain is the only thing that qualifies as a consequence, when there are clearly many other things that can serve that purpose.

Insert Riveting saying we're the same person talking ourselves below.

Bonefish even said that when he stopped being hit for misbehavior the subsequent consequences were worse.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

You THINK it worked well for you and for your kids, but the research would suggest that all of you would be better off had you not been spanked.

Also, this is the second time you've mentioned people coloring their hair purple as if it's somehow a bad thing. What's that about?

Hmmmm. I spanked my two sons and lets take a look. Son # 1 has three kids...one who went to college on a Baseball scholarship, the other turned down collegiate basketball scholarships to attend Butler on academic scholarship, and the daughter who will go to college on a VB scholarship. He sold his business at the of 43 and never has to work again, though he does. He and his wife own a seven figure lake house in Tennessee. He spanked his kids when deserved.

Son # 2 has two daughters on athletic scholarships, a son who will go to a major university on academic scholarship. He makes north of $165K per year. He spanked his kids when deserved,

Maybe you shouldn't read that liberal bull so much. Spare the rod and spoil the child isn't very good advice in most cases.

 

[JBoiler23]

Hmmmm. I spanked my two sons and lets take a look. Son # 1 has three kids...one who went to college on a Baseball scholarship, the other turned down collegiate basketball scholarships to attend Butler on academic scholarship, and the daughter who will go to college on a VB scholarship. He sold his business at the of 43 and never has to work again, though he does. He and his wife own a seven figure lake house in Tennessee. He spanked his kids when deserved.

Son # 2 has two daughters on athletic scholarships, a son who will go to a major university on academic scholarship. He makes north of $165K per year. He spanked his kids when deserved,

Maybe you shouldn't read that liberal bull so much. Spare the rod and spoil the child isn't very good advice in most cases.

And also with you, it's pretty telling that you dismiss scientific research as "liberal" because you don't agree with it. And to your story, one anecdote does not disprove the research.

I do agree with your last sentence, though. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is, apparently, bad advice and parents should find more effective methods of discipline.

 

[bonefish1]

Where does this opinion come from? Because there's nothing in the constitution that suggests it's protections are conditional, as you suggest.

Opinions are like ........well you know.

Is it your opinion that a repeat offender gets as many chances as the court is willing to grant them?

How many drunk driving convictions should a person have before they spend a significant amount of time in jail?

 

[bonefish1]

You THINK it worked well for you and for your kids, but the research would suggest that all of you would be better off had you not been spanked.

Also, this is the second time you've mentioned people coloring their hair purple as if it's somehow a bad thing. What's that about?

Because anytime you see a bunch of lefty libs protesting something, there's a bunch of them that have purple hair, etc.
As a hiring manager, if I see an applicant with purple hair or a bunch of piercings, etc, then they're automatically disqualified, period.
It shows a lack of professionalism and poor judgement. (unless you're applying to work at Starbucks).

 

[bonefish1]

I never hit my kids.

I do not negotiate with my kids.

My kids are fully aware that there are real consequences for bad behavior.

My kids are some very squared away, hard-working individuals.

Is a spank on the the butt considered hitting?

ferris bueller you hit me - Google Search

 

[bonefish1]

Bonefish even said that when he stopped being hit for misbehavior the subsequent consequences were worse.

When the spankings stopped having the intended impact, which happens when a child reaches a physical size, then a parent has to switch tactics and implement new consequences. Often times, a kid would rather have the temporary sting on the butt as opposed to being grounded for a week.

 

[bonefish1]

Hmmmm. I spanked my two sons and lets take a look. Son # 1 has three kids...one who went to college on a Baseball scholarship, the other turned down collegiate basketball scholarships to attend Butler on academic scholarship, and the daughter who will go to college on a VB scholarship. He sold his business at the of 43 and never has to work again, though he does. He and his wife own a seven figure lake house in Tennessee. He spanked his kids when deserved.

Son # 2 has two daughters on athletic scholarships, a son who will go to a major university on academic scholarship. He makes north of $165K per year. He spanked his kids when deserved,

Maybe you shouldn't read that liberal bull so much. Spare the rod and spoil the child isn't very good advice in most cases.

Libs can't differentiate between spanking and beating. To them, any act of laying a hand on a child is an act of violence. When in reality, it's an act of getting their attention, quickly and on the spot and letting them know certain behavior will not be tolerated and will have consequences.

 

[Katscratch]

Is a spank on the the butt considered hitting?

ferris bueller you hit me - Google Search

It's not my style, but it's fine. There are plenty of parental choices that can and do still equate to producing a fine adult.

This convo started when someone (not sure it was you) stated that not physically striking a child led to all kinds of bad behavior. That is most certainly not true. Conversely, parents who spank a kid on the butt can also produce fine people.

And I'm quite sure that political affiliation has little to do with it.

 

[Katscratch]

Opinions are like ........well you know.

Is it your opinion that a repeat offender gets as many chances as the court is willing to grant them?

How many drunk driving convictions should a person have before they spend a significant amount of time in jail?

That's why sentencing guidelines and multiple offense sentencing enhancements can and do exist.

I'm not sure what the 'magic number' for additional punishment should be, but it is clear that repeat offenders should and do get enhanced sentences throughout the American legal system.

 

[bonefish1]

It's not my style, but it's fine. There are plenty of parental choices that can and do still equate to producing a fine adult.

This convo started when someone (not sure it was you) stated that not physically striking a child led to all kinds of bad behavior. That is most certainly not true. Conversely, parents who spank a kid on the butt can also produce fine people.

And I'm quite sure that political affiliation has little to do with it.

I agree. Some spank, some don't and each has their reasons. But, people also have to understand the difference between a spanking and a beating.

 

[BB62]

I agree. Some spank, some don't and each has their reasons. But, people also have to understand the difference between a spanking and a beating.

Is one hit with a wooden spoon the same as a spanking? What about 3 or 4? Does it matter where you hit them with the spoon? Is hitting them on the head or the back the same as on the butt? You said after the spoon comes the belt. Is that on the butt? Is the child wearing pants or naked? If you hit them on the back with the belt but it leaves no marks is that just like a spanking? How many hits with the belt does it take to go from getting their attention to a beating? I assume you have a threshold. 10? Have you ever lost track of the number of hits because you were angry at what the child did or didn't do? Can you see how a spanking could easily turn into a beating for parents less disciplined than you are?

Btw, using a belt is a beating in my book.

 

[bonefish1]

Is one hit with a wooden spoon the same as a spanking? What about 3 or 4? Does it matter where you hit them with the spoon? Is hitting them on the head or the back the same as on the butt? You said after the spoon comes the belt. Is that on the butt? Is the child wearing pants or naked? If you hit them on the back with the belt but it leaves no marks is that just like a spanking? How many hits with the belt does it take to go from getting their attention to a beating? I assume you have a threshold. 10? Have you ever lost track of the number of hits because you were angry at what the child did or didn't do? Can you see how a spanking could easily turn into a beating for parents less disciplined than you are?

Btw, using a belt is a beating in my book.

All spanking should always be on the butt (unless your child uses some really foul language, in which case, a soap bar in the mouth is appropriate). Yeh, it may sting for a second but you're not doing any physical damage.
A spanking is less about the inflicting of pain and more about getting the child's attention and sending a message. It's quick, swift and immediate and not physically harmful. Sort of like an invisible fence shock collar for a dog.
Usually one swat is sufficient, but you have to put the psychological fear in them that more are possible unless behavior changes.

 

[Katscratch]

All spanking should always be on the butt (unless your child uses some really foul language, in which case, a soap bar in the mouth is appropriate). Yeh, it may sting for a second but you're not doing any physical damage.
A spanking is less about the inflicting of pain and more about getting the child's attention and sending a message. It's quick, swift and immediate and not physically harmful. Sort of like an invisible fence shock collar for a dog.
Usually one swat is sufficient, but you have to put the psychological fear in them that more are possible unless behavior changes.

Or, you could just take all electronics away and send them to their room with only homework to entertain them. I found that to be extremely effective.

No worries about whether you’re inflicting pain with that approach.

 

[bonefish1]

Or, you could just take all electronics away and send them to their room with only homework to entertain them. I found that to be extremely effective.

No worries about whether you’re inflicting pain with that approach.

Like I said: Do whatever style of discipline works for you. But don't condemn someone else's that works for them.