New Jan 6 Footage

[BoilerMadness]

How exactly do you fire a warning shot inside with a mob of people? I’m sorry, you are way out to lunch on this one.

And just for the record, this happened while Trump was still in office and his administration.

You can fire a shot into the wall, well above head height. The blast of the gun will cause the crowd to pause & reevaluate how much they want to get through that door. There weren't that many people on the other side of that wall and within seconds of her getting shot, several cops came forward carrying AR-15s.

A warning shot would have defused the situation and no one had to die.

The investigation and determination of whether it was a legal shooting occurred, when Biden was President.

 

[Riveting]

My apologies for not directly replying to your accusation. But you're basing your incompetence argument on one action of an officer woth28 years experience. He made what appears to be a serious mistake by leaving his weapon in a bathroom, he was disciplined but kept his job.......but therefore he is incompetent and therefore the shooting was not justified.

Hell, he could be incompetent or a bad officer. His superiors didn't see it that way........but even if he was it doesn't mean the shooting wasn't justified.......considering the actions of Babbitt and the investigation that cleared Byrd. It's just another attempt to draw clear conclusions based on opinions and theories.

Now you can address the hypocrisy of Babbitt not heeding the instructions of the police when that's all Floyd had to do to keep from being killed.

It was a loaded weapon. If a kid had found that gun and blown his head off, would you say that was an incompetent police officer who should at least be fired (if not jailed)? Of course you would, as would we all. Yet for the same incompetent act, because he was lucky and nobody got killed by his incompetence, are you saying he is thus deserving not to be fired? It was the same act.

His incompetence doesn't mean the shooting was not justified, but it certainly calls into question his ability to make such a decision. No other officer made the same deadly decision on Jan. 6.

I have never said Floyd deserved to be killed. You are making that up, if that is what you mean.

 

[BoilerMadness]

She’s coming through the broken out window … is he just supposed to let her (and how ever many follow her) come in? It’s literally the last line before they could get to people.

Hence the warning shot, or he could have shot her in the shoulder. He did NOT have to use lethal force. He got scared & choked under pressure.

 

[YouSayPotato]

Mr. Potato Head seems to be repeating the fictional narrative that the protestors had firearms.

Actually it's Dr. Potato Head. I didn't say the protesters had firearms. I said they were armed.

Armed Protesters

 

[Riveting]

Did you watch the full video (or least the few minutes before she was shot) … that is the inner hallway where members of congress and their staffs were moving around when all heck broke loose.

But weren't there other armed police inside along with armed ss who would have been a more formidable 'last line'?

 

[PurdueFan1]

I don't appreciate your sneering condescension with "SD, you're better than that". It's like you're patting a 7 year old kid on the head. It's not victimhood. I was throwing the condescension straight back at you.

What I've learned from this board is that most of the folks who agree with your stances are so jaded, so full of the party line, mainstream media brainwashing that they can't articulate a cogent point on their own.

It's just emotional bluster. I left this board for a number of months after the election and it was one of the best things I've done in awhile. I came back, and nothing has changed. Bob still has TDS big time. A bunch of others have changed their screen names but use the same worn out Progressive talking points. BNI calls everyone who disagrees with him a racist. There is some entertainment value here, but it wears away quickly.

I actually said it with sincerity, because I know you are. If you took it as condescension, that’s your issue, not mine.

And I’ll ask again as I have before:, why was she there at all? Who goaded her into being there, SD? And as a former member of the armed forces, certainly she of all people should know what the potential consequence of what she was doing could be. Pointing the finger at the officer is a cop out. Hell, I even feel a bit bad for her because she was unable to think on her own. The bottom line, though, Is that the blame falls squarely on the people who instigated all of this, including the guy you voted for, because they kept pushing the big lie about the election. The lie was pandered to the dumbest of the dumb, who bought it hook, line and sinker, and you end up with her now being six feet under. I’m not sure why you can’t bring yourself to lay the blame where it should be.

 

[SDBoiler1]

Actually it's Dr. Potato Head. I didn't say the protesters had firearms. I said they were armed.

Armed Protesters

Sorry, I don’t equivocate stun guns, pepper spray, and baseball bats with a 9mm or .45 ACP pistol. Stun guns and pepper spray are not intended to be lethal.

 

[Riveting]

Actually it's Dr. Potato Head. I didn't say the protesters had firearms. I said they were armed.

Armed Protesters

Sure, doc, but your hypothetical was about a "mob of armed strangers" breaking into a house.

That made it sound like you were saying they had firearms - but I hedged it by saying you "seem" to think...

Back to your high-level tuber research...

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

But weren't there other armed police inside along with armed ss who would have been a more formidable 'last line'?

Dont know. Maybe they were coming. He was protecting that newly created opening (the mob broke out that window .. the doors had held to that point).

 

[YouSayPotato]

Sorry, I don’t equivocate stun guns, pepper spray, and baseball bats with a 9mm or .45 ACP pistol. Stun guns and pepper spray are not intended to be lethal.

Did you read this in my link? " . . . more than 100 police officers suffered injuries, including cracked ribs, gouged eyes and shattered spinal disks . . ."

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

Hence the warning shot, or he could have shot her in the shoulder. He did NOT have to use lethal force. He got scared & choked under pressure.

I’m sorry, but no. She’s coming through the window (with a backpack on mind you).

He’s heard reports of other cops being crushed in door ways and beaten by the mob with flag poles.

He pulls his gun … everybody else pulls back and stops …. But she’s coming through that broken window. He did his job.

 

[BoilerMadness]

I'm not talking about the black cop shooting an unarmed white woman. When I say the chickens have com home to roost, I'm just saying an unarmed white woman was killed and now all of you feel that she was unjustly killed. I don't see the same empathy when an unarmed black person is killed by the cop. Immediately y'all blame the person that was shot. Just like the unarmed blacks that were killed by police, this chick, and the folks she was with were breaking the law.

Probably, because unarmed Black people aren't killed that often by cops. We certainly never hear about unarmed Black people being killed by Black cops. We only hear about unarmed Black people getting killed by White cops, because that creates a lot of racial outrage and the MSM & the Dems can milk that outrage for quite a while.

Whenever a White cop kills a Black person, we're going to hear about it. The fact that it's not a constant narrative should tell you that it's really not happening that often.

Most of the cases, where an unarmed Black person got killed, it was when they resisted arrest and started fighting the cops. That's never a winning proposition, regardless of what color you are.

 

[Riveting]

Dont know. Maybe they were coming. He was protecting that newly created opening (the mob broke out that window .. the doors had held to that point).

Fair enough...but in that case, there is no basis for saying it was literally the last line.

Like you, I am all for investigating who knew what and when...but it sure seems like some in the DOJ do not want that happen. Wonder why that would be?

 

[BuilderBob6]

That's an amazing rationalization...LOL

You do realize that BLM is run by avowed Marxists, don't you? The only black lives that matter to them are their own. Their purpose is to cause racial division and create disruptions in our country.

How, exactly, was anything that those protesters did in the House going to do to overturn the election? That's the narrative from the Dems, but it makes no sense.

The protestors were literally 100 feet from Pence at one point. They could gave been armed and grabbed, held him hostage.

Are you saying because the likelihood of overturning the election was small, therefore it wasnt really a big deal? Are you saying you know their intent was something else? You say you're not condoning what they did but youre certsinly making excuses for them.........all because they didnt have a likelihood of accomplishing their STATED goal.

A bank robber with no ammo in his pistol is less likely to be successful but does that mean his intent was not the same as if it was loaded? Do the bank guards treat him differently? Maybe he's just an idiot, maybe the protestors were just idiots who weren't very good at overturning an election.

 

[SDBoiler1]

I actually said it with sincerity, because I know you are. If you took it as condescension, that’s your issue, not mine.

And I’ll ask again as I have before:, why was she there at all? Who goaded her into being there, SD? And as a former member of the armed forces, certainly she of all people should know what the potential consequence of what she was doing could be. Pointing the finger at the officer is a cop out. Hell, I even feel a bit bad for her because she was unable to think on her own. The bottom line, though, Is that the blame falls squarely on the people who instigated all of this, including the guy you voted for, because they kept pushing the big lie about the election. The lie was pandered to the dumbest of the dumb, who bought it hook, line and sinker, and you end up with her now being six feet under. I’m not sure why you can’t bring yourself to lay the blame where it should be.

She made a choice to be part of the mob and paid the ultimate price for it.

I’ve said repeatedly that the pre-riot speech by Trump was horrific. He acts like he’s going to lead the mob to the Capitol and slips away quietly while the mob continues on. Kind of cowardly if you ask me.

That said, there’s something about how the 2020 election went down and the circumstances around it (Covid likely caused by China, lockdowns, unfettered mail-in ballots in many states/locales, loosening of voter ID rules, BLM riots, etc., etc.), that leaves me feeling that things were not completely in the up-and-up in some places.

Still, Trump and his team of legal savants could not make the case, basically anywhere, that the election was stolen. Without proof, it’s all for naught and a waste of time and energy.

 

[Riveting]

I actually said it with sincerity, because I know you are. If you took it as condescension, that’s your issue, not mine.

And I’ll ask again as I have before:, why was she there at all? Who goaded her into being there, SD? And as a former member of the armed forces, certainly she of all people should know what the potential consequence of what she was doing could be. Pointing the finger at the officer is a cop out. Hell, I even feel a bit bad for her because she was unable to think on her own. The bottom line, though, Is that the blame falls squarely on the people who instigated all of this, including the guy you voted for, because they kept pushing the big lie about the election. The lie was pandered to the dumbest of the dumb, who bought it hook, line and sinker, and you end up with her now being six feet under. I’m not sure why you can’t bring yourself to lay the blame where it should be.

pointing a finger at a cop who has proven himself to be incompetent, and when no other cops fired their weapons, is not a cop out, puf.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Well, technically yes, they were working under his administration and appointed leaders.

I’m sure some of the people involved in the riots have been informants prior to this. I’m all for further investigating who knew what and when.

Gonna have the FBI investigate themselves? The FBI is supposed to be apolitical, but they had a lot of anti-Trumpers in the upper echelons of their organization for most of the time he was in office.

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

Fair enough...but in that case, there is no basis for saying it was literally the last line.

Like you, I am all for investigating who knew what and when...but it sure seems like some in the DOJ do not want that happen. Wonder why that would be?

Again ... go back and watch that video. there were congress members and staffers walking in that area right before this happened.

In DOJ defense ... they probably never thought it would go this far. They probably expected protestors and chanting and maybe 1 or 2 crazy people trying to break in, but never a mob like that. i know it's easy to say after the fact they should have known, but it's never happened before.

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

Gonna have the FBI investigate themselves? The FBI is supposed to be apolitical, but they had a lot of anti-Trumpers in the upper echelons of their organization for most of the time he was in office.

Maybe they should have had a bi-partisan investigation of what happened ... oh wait.

 

[Riveting]

The protestors were literally 100 feet from Pence at one point. They could gave been armed and grabbed, held him hostage.

Are you saying because the likelihood of overturning the election was small, therefore it wasnt really a big deal? Are you saying you know their intent was something else? You say you're not condoning what they did but youre certsinly making excuses for them.........all because they didnt have a likelihood of accomplishing their STATED goal.

A bank robber with no ammo in his pistol is less likely to be successful but does that mean his intent was not the same as if it was loaded? Do the bank guards treat him differently? Maybe he's just an idiot, maybe the protestors were just idiots who weren't very good at overturning an election.

Or maybe through informants the FBI knew the protestors had no firearms. Lot of maybes still up in the arm that the feds don't seem to want to discuss, right Bob?

 

[Riveting]

Maybe they should have had a bi-partisan investigation of what happened ... oh wait.

Wait what? You think Pelosi's hand-picked group was a true bipartisan group? She blocked two reps the repubs selected.

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

Wait what? You think Pelosi's hand-picked group was a true bipartisan group? She blocked two reps the repubs selected.

Right, because the GOP killed the true bi-partisan 9/11 style committee that was originally proposed. They could have had ownership in how it ran, but killed it instead.

I'm sorry, but putting Jim Jordan as a GOP rep was stunt by McCarthy. He knew she'd nuke him and a couple of the others.

 

[Riveting]

Right, because the GOP killed the true bi-partisan 9/11 style committee that was originally proposed. They could have had ownership in how it ran, but killed it instead.

I'm sorry, but putting Jim Jordan as a GOP rep was stunt by McCarthy. He knew she'd nuke him and a couple of the others.

So he should have picked only those reps that Nanci would like? That's bipartisanship to you?

 

[YouSayPotato]

Or maybe through informants the FBI knew the protestors had no firearms.

Jesus H. Christ, what is wrong with you? How could anyone possibly know whether anyone within an armed mob of hysterical degenerates has a gun? We do know that they were violent because " . . . more than 100 police officers suffered injuries, including cracked ribs, gouged eyes and shattered spinal disks . . ."

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

So he should have picked only those reps that Nanci would like? That's bipartisanship to you?

You ignored the first part ... they veto'd the true bi-partisan thing so now you get a Pelosi run thing. The GOP made that choice to appease Trump. They'd have been better off joining in the first option (imo).

 

[BoilerMadness]

Hell, I even feel a bit bad for her because she was unable to think on her own. The bottom line, though, Is that the blame falls squarely on the people who instigated all of this, including the guy you voted for, because they kept pushing the big lie about the election. The lie was pandered to the dumbest of the dumb, who bought it hook, line and sinker, and you end up with her now being six feet under. I’m not sure why you can’t bring yourself to lay the blame where it should be.

You arrogant, condescending ass. What the Hell makes you think that she was unable to think for herself? She had free will and she made a bad decision that cost her her life, but it didn't have to end that way.

BTW you arrogant ass, you voted for a corrupt incompetent who has done nothing but LIE for his entire life and he blames everyone else for his incompetence. Every policy of Trump's that he reversed has made this country worse. That's the brilliant move that you made to aid in the destruction of our country, genius.

Trump was annoying, but his policies were good. Biden is incompetent and given two options, he'll pick the worst one every time.

 

[Riveting]

Jesus H. Christ, what is wrong with you? How could anyone possibly know whether anyone within an armed mob of hysterical degenerates has a gun? We do know that they were violent because " . . . more than 100 police officers suffered injuries, including cracked ribs, gouged eyes and shattered spinal disks . . ."

How do you know what they knew and how many informants they had?

You don't, and I don't, which is why I said 'maybe'. It sure seems the feds don't want to discuss it - but even the NYT can see some things that just don't add up, as much as they hate to say it.

By the same token, how could police in, say, Portland know if anyone in a large, armed, violent crowd of rioters had a gun. Should they have started shooting them when they were throwing frozen water bottles at police?

 

[YouSayPotato]

Should they have started shooting them when they were throwing frozen water bottles at police?

They should have started shooting before more than 100 police officers suffered injuries including cracked ribs, gouged eyes and shattered spinal disks.

 

[Riveting]

You ignored the first part ... they veto'd the true bi-partisan thing so now you get a Pelosi run thing. The GOP made that choice to appease Trump. They'd have been better off joining in the first option (imo).

I think they should have joined it too, but I can see why they might have been reluctant to take part in a process that would have been framed by the regime's msm to make them look bad no matter what was found.

I vastly prefer an independent prosecutor. Don't you?

 

[Riveting]

They should have started shooting before more than 100 police officers suffered injuries including cracked ribs, gouged eyes and shattered spinal disks.

I cannot say one way or the other, but I can say from what I know that what you are saying would have been more justified than the shooting of Ashli B.

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

I think they should have joined it too, but I can see why they might have been reluctant to take part in a process that would have been framed by the regime's msm to make them look bad no matter what was found.

I vastly prefer an independent prosecutor. Don't you?

I know why they were reluctant, but there was going to be some kind of investigation no matter what. They knew they had no power to stop Pelosi from doing what she is doing now. The joint thing could at least have had rules about how they worked together and given the GOP some element of control. They gave all of that away.

Any voter who has not already decided which way they are voting next time probably doesn't really care about who is running it ... they are going to react to whatever comes out .... and the GOP essentially gave Pelosi unilateral power to run it.

Sure an independent prosecutor sounds good in theory ... but i'm not sure that really exists anymore.

 

[BoilerMadness]

The protestors were literally 100 feet from Pence at one point. They could gave been armed and grabbed, held him hostage.

Are you saying because the likelihood of overturning the election was small, therefore it wasnt really a big deal? Are you saying you know their intent was something else? You say you're not condoning what they did but youre certsinly making excuses for them.........all because they didnt have a likelihood of accomplishing their STATED goal.

A bank robber with no ammo in his pistol is less likely to be successful but does that mean his intent was not the same as if it was loaded? Do the bank guards treat him differently? Maybe he's just an idiot, maybe the protestors were just idiots who weren't very good at overturning an election.

Grabbed him hostage for what purpose? You give him back and Trump gets 4 more years? That's ludicrous.

Since neither one of us were there, we have no idea what the motivations of the individuals really were. There's a lot of speculation, but I suspect it was just a lot of frustration being vented on the building & the cops. It wasn't right & it wasn't smart, but we can't turn back the clock and undo it.

 

[Level 42]

So a Black cop shoots an unarmed white woman and somehow that makes you feel good? That doesn't say much for you...

He's always been a racist, so you shouldn't expect much from him.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Maybe they should have had a bi-partisan investigation of what happened ... oh wait.

When the Dems control both Houses, you can eliminate the bi from bipartisan. It will be as bipartisan as the Impeachment hearing were.

 

[Riveting]

I know why they were reluctant, but there was going to be some kind of investigation no matter what. They knew they had no power to stop Pelosi from doing what she is doing now. The joint thing could at least have had rules about how they worked together and given the GOP some element of control. They gave all of that away.

Any voter who has not already decided which way they are voting next time probably doesn't really care about who is running it ... they are going to react to whatever comes out .... and the GOP essentially gave Pelosi unilateral power to run it.

Sure an independent prosecutor sounds good in theory ... but i'm not sure that really exists anymore.

You don't think Mueller was independent? Granted, he sure didn't sound like it from all the texts that came out, but in the end he had to admit there was no basis for the Russian collusion claim that HC made up.

 

[BuilderBob6]

It's amusing how you rattle around inside your head, making things up that have no relevance to anything. WTF does Jan 5th have to do with anything? The videos Pelosi didn't want to release showed a lot of people walking around in the Capitol like tourists. Usually, in situations like this, you have a few dozen activists and a large number of spectators. It wasn't all a war zone, like her highly edited version would lead you to believe.

I've never once said that Trump was my hero. so quit making things up. I thought he had good policies for the country, but he is a flawed human being. I thought that having the rally on the Mall on the 6th was a mistake. it wasn't that hard to figure out what was likely to happen, but please, show me anywhere in Trump's speech, where he told the people to "attack the Capitol"?

Pelosi had requested the National Guard, but decided NOT to deploy them, so yes, she does have some culpability, too.

Show me where a BLM leader said to loot and burn?

You yourself said the protestors were pissed off and venting. Did they need someone to give exact instructions on what to do? Do you have a clue how crowds can get worked up by a speaker? Trump is a fcking idiot but even he's not dumb enough to tell the crowd to attack the Capitol. Really? Unless he told them to specifically break into the Capitol he has no responsibility? There are laws against inciting a riot. His whole life he's never specific about that stuff.

 

[BoilerMadness]

Right, because the GOP killed the true bi-partisan 9/11 style committee that was originally proposed. They could have had ownership in how it ran, but killed it instead.

I'm sorry, but putting Jim Jordan as a GOP rep was stunt by McCarthy. He knew she'd nuke him and a couple of the others.

C'mon Bear. The Reps remember how well Pelosi treated them in the Impeachment hearings. She steamrolled them then and they knew she would do it again. Why waste a lot of time on a sham?

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

You don't think Mueller was independent? Granted, he sure didn't sound like it from all the texts that came out, but in the end he had to admit there was no basis for the Russian collusion claim that HC made up.

Maybe he was ... but at this point it would Biden appointing whoever would run the investigation, so nobody would believe it was independent.

 

[bear_down_chicago_89]

C'mon Bear. The Reps remember how well Pelosi treated them in the Impeachment hearings. She steamrolled them then and they knew she would do it again. Why waste a lot of time on a sham?

Because it was happening no matter what. You give away 'some' control for zero control. Not a good deal IMO.

And you can thank Trump for not hanging on to the Senate majority. If he'd actually just come out and supported the 2 GA GOP candidates instead of airing his 'stop the steal' grievances, the GOP would likely still be in control of the senate and could have run the investigation.

'A Hostage Situation Every Day': Strategists Blame Trump For Georgia Senate Losses

Sources close to the campaigns say people in and around the White House put near-constant pressure on Sens. David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler to shape their runoff campaigns around Trump's demands.

www.npr.org

 

[BuilderBob6]

Do you honestly think the Biden administration or someone like Pelosi would ever allow that cop to be charged for shooting her? Hell no. Of course he was cleared, because if he wasn’t it would have made the actions/inactions of Pelosi and other Ds that day look bad. Pelosi could have used the National Guard that day. She chose not to. The Capitol Police could have had more reinforcements. They chose not to do it.

The riot was stupid but this woman didn’t deserve to die for that.

PELOSI IS NOT IN CHARGE OF THE CAPITOL POLICE. Where do you get your information. And please tell me what actions/inactions of other Dems that day look bad. Please. Then tell me how the hell you don't look at Trump's words and actions that day and criticize them. He watched it unfold on TV and enjoyed it, doing nothing to stop it until pushed by his staff. Even then it was a weak tweet and had no effect. You have the balls to blame Dems and say freaking nothing about trump.....who was PRESIDENT?