ADVERTISEMENT

New 5, 6th man

TKR and Smith have been the most consistent throughout the season. Everyone else has been consistently inconsistent. It is hard to have a stable starting 5 when you don't know what you are going to get out of your players night in and night out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBG and ChoiceBeef
TKR and Smith have been the most consistent throughout the season. Everyone else has been consistently inconsistent. It is hard to have a stable starting 5 when you don't know what you are going to get out of your players night in and night out.
Fletch has scored in double figures in every game but one (and that game was a 35 point blowout when he only played 23 minutes.

When we were in danger of getting our doors blown off early on Saturday, it was Fletch that kept us within striking distance. The score was tied at 15 when Loyer exited about 8 minutes in and Fletch had 7 of our 15 points. You saw what happened from then on.
 
At this point why not give Waddell some minutes? He has a scholarship and that scholarship prevented us from getting someone in the portal.

He has shown ability to score and play. If Colvin/Heide aren’t clicking, throw him out there. Maybe that sends a message
I trust Painter. There is a reason Waddell is not playing. There was also a reason Waddell was given a scholarship .

You play your best players, Not the fan favorites. And players earn playing time in practice!
 
At this point why not give Waddell some minutes? He has a scholarship and that scholarship prevented us from getting someone in the portal.

He has shown ability to score and play. If Colvin/Heide aren’t clicking, throw him out there. Maybe that sends a message
When and against who has he shown that ability? What Big Ten Team? What good D-1 team in prime time?
 
Fletch has scored in double figures in every game but one (and that game was a 35 point blowout when he only played 23 minutes.

When we were in danger of getting our doors blown off early on Saturday, it was Fletch that kept us within striking distance. The score was tied at 15 when Loyer exited about 8 minutes in and Fletch had 7 of our 15 points. You saw what happened from then on.
Since Loyer is slower with his feet, I would like to see us get him set on the perimeter, and us passing the ball around until he is open to pop the 3. He could also use TKR by passing the ball inside to him and collapse the defense and pass it out to the perimeter to Loyer (TKR has shown tendencies this year not to pass out as much as he should when he get double teamed). Loyer is at his best when his shoulders are square to the basket and feet set.
 
Fletch has scored in double figures in every game but one (and that game was a 35 point blowout when he only played 23 minutes.

When we were in danger of getting our doors blown off early on Saturday, it was Fletch that kept us within striking distance. The score was tied at 15 when Loyer exited about 8 minutes in and Fletch had 7 of our 15 points. You saw what happened from then on.
Yea I'd say Smith has been more inconsistent from a productiom standpoint game to game than Loyer. Especially scoring. So far this year his scoring game to game has been...

12 vs Texas A&M CC
11 vs N Kentucky
22 vs Yale
17 vs Alabama
11 vs Marquette
0 vs Marshall
11 vs NC State
18 vs Ole Miss
6 vs Penn St
24 vs Maryland
15 vs Texas A&M
8 vs Auburn

That's the place he needs to excel at more. He should be averaging 18+ a game.
 
Jumping does not make you a great player. Heide shows that. Very small sample on Waddell. He does play good d-1 talent all the time…in practice. Apparently the coach sees he does not cut it. At least enough to play right now.
 
Since Loyer is slower with his feet, I would like to see us get him set on the perimeter, and us passing the ball around until he is open to pop the 3. He could also use TKR by passing the ball inside to him and collapse the defense and pass it out to the perimeter to Loyer (TKR has shown tendencies this year not to pass out as much as he should when he get double teamed). Loyer is at his best when his shoulders are square to the basket and feet set.
If I'm the opponent coach I do NOT help off of Fletch...others I will, but not off of Fletch. Not sure Auburn helped off of anything other than the high ball screen and Trey's roll down the lane. They pretty much didn't help and why Purdue couldn't get as many good looks
 
Since Loyer is slower with his feet, I would like to see us get him set on the perimeter, and us passing the ball around until he is open to pop the 3. He could also use TKR by passing the ball inside to him and collapse the defense and pass it out to the perimeter to Loyer (TKR has shown tendencies this year not to pass out as much as he should when he get double teamed). Loyer is at his best when his shoulders are square to the basket and feet set.
The problem is Loyer is slower with his feet.
Other teams know that, and take him away.
He is next to never open to pop the 3.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bonefish1
Jumping does not make you a great player. Heide shows that. Very small sample on Waddell. He does play good d-1 talent all the time…in practice. Apparently the coach sees he does not cut it. At least enough to play right now.
Agree. Having a big time vertical is nice, and he doesn't have a nice 3pt stroke, but he doesn't have any handles. He's Justin Jennings with a jumper (although not terribly consistent).
 
The problem is Loyer is slower with his feet.
Other teams know that, and take him away.
He is next to never open to pop the 3.
Painter built the team around Edey (dominant big, facilitator-Smith, and shooters-Loyer, Jones, Gillis). Now, you take about the key component in Edey and now the strengths of those other players get limited by the defense not focused on the dominant big. Painter had to have seen this coming. Not sure he was overly optimistic on the development of others or just refused to used the portal on principle .
 
Fletch has had a number of games this year where he has terrific first halves and disappears in the second. He has not had one of those 25 -27 point breakout games like he has in previous years due to the second half problems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChoiceBeef
I feel like that’s always been our weakness - Dakota was a 1st half killer. Defense adjusted but we never adjusted our offense accordingly.

This is also part of Painter’s and Purdue’s challenges - we don’t get enough guys who can go and create 1on1. We get guys who are deadeye coming off screens and plays to open them up. We don’t get guys who you throw the ball to and say, go create.

This is part of my gripe when we get an offensive rebound and that guy is looking for the PG. Grab board - start dribbling and move! Take advantage of a mismatch.

We are more like “oh hey, this is going to be a 4v2, better slow it down so we can be 4v5 since our 5th guy can’t shoot”.
 
I feel like that’s always been our weakness - Dakota was a 1st half killer. Defense adjusted but we never adjusted our offense accordingly.

This is also part of Painter’s and Purdue’s challenges - we don’t get enough guys who can go and create 1on1. We get guys who are deadeye coming off screens and plays to open them up. We don’t get guys who you throw the ball to and say, go create.

This is part of my gripe when we get an offensive rebound and that guy is looking for the PG. Grab board - start dribbling and move! Take advantage of a mismatch.

We are more like “oh hey, this is going to be a 4v2, better slow it down so we can be 4v5 since our 5th guy can’t shoot”.
With few, very few exceptions, Painter has built his rosters very similarly throughout his career.
Low post big, one ball handler, 2 shooters and a 4 who tries to do a little bit of everything. Rarely does he have 2-3 guys on the floor who can get their own shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChoiceBeef
With few, very few exceptions, Painter has built his rosters very similarly throughout his career.
Low post big, one ball handler, 2 shooters and a 4 who tries to do a little bit of everything. Rarely does he have 2-3 guys on the floor who can get their own shot.
If I could have one wish for the future - that we would change that aspect of building our team with more creators. I personally think Cox has that ability just needs opportunities and minutes.
 
Painter built the team around Edey (dominant big, facilitator-Smith, and shooters-Loyer, Jones, Gillis). Now, you take about the key component in Edey and now the strengths of those other players get limited by the defense not focused on the dominant big. Painter had to have seen this coming. Not sure he was overly optimistic on the development of others or just refused to used the portal on principle .
What's your current outlook for this team? Sorry if you've stated this before, but curious to know if you're anticipating bottom third of the conference, middle of the pack NCAAT bubble team or something else.
 
What's your current outlook for this team? Sorry if you've stated this before, but curious to know if you're anticipating bottom third of the conference, middle of the pack NCAAT bubble team or something else.
I’m thinking they finish somewhere between 3rd-5th in the B10.
Finish with 19-21 wins. 5-7 seed.
I’m not sure how many B10 teams play the type of D that gives Purdue problems. But the script is out there.
I think we also see some more starting lineup changes because the production for. Colvin and Heide has been so inconsistent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: northside100
If I could have one wish for the future - that we would change that aspect of building our team with more creators. I personally think Cox has that ability just needs opportunities and minutes.
"More" is a key word. By the way, Purdue has always had players that could create their own shot if making them was not important. You need to have "some" that can create their own shot, but you can also have too many IMO. Creating your own shot by definition means individual play and so I think there is a balance in how many players and how often that should take place. If certain players are always creating, then some of their team is not involved in the offense and then the D starts to load up on those creating.

Still, with the short clock it has made it more important for individual play since the clock is forcing a shot and it is nice to have someone that "creates" on his own that can make a basket when the clock is expiring. It has always been somewhat important, but not nearly as important when you can run an offense and break the D down when the clock doesn't carry as much weight. It is what it is and so individual play is important...and carrying that thought farther...this is why guards rather than bigs "IF" the game is close are important in that they don't depend on someone to get them the ball to score on their own...
 
If I could have one wish for the future - that we would change that aspect of building our team with more creators. I personally think Cox has that ability just needs opportunities and minutes.
I don't see how Matt could possibly miss that message.
If this team doesn't convince someone of the need, they can't be convinced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChoiceBeef
Listened to Painters post game presser and was disappointed in what he said. He said he’s fine with running almost everything through Smith and TKR with some options for Fletcher. He actually said most teams do that and it’s OK because teams will struggle to stop all three. The problem I see with this is they’re forcing the offense even though teams are guarding effectively. The other issue is we can’t afford to have a team shutdown/neutralize even one of the big 3 because it’s been requiring big contributions from them all to win the games without struggling.
The disappointment for me comes from him not stating that when one or two or more of the big 3 are not scoring as normal or efficiently, that he sees the need to run stuff for someone else to make up the lacking contribution. Maybe that’s a given but it’d be good to hear and great to see!
We played Toledo yesterday and make no mistake, they are NOT a good team. Their D is ranked in the 300’s…there should not have been struggling by our Boilers to pull ahead and put them away.
I believe Colvin and Heide are hesitant to shoot or seek/hunt their shots because they don’t feel they are integral parts of the offense and are aware Painter wants the other 3 to provide the overwhelming balance of the scoring. I feel that way after hearing him speak multiple times, I’d assume they almost certainly have heard that message. Could relate to what some have pointed to as a lack of confidence by them.
All conjecture on my part and I’m aware Painter is a smart guy and experienced coach so hopefully my concerns are for naught.
 
Listened to Painters post game presser and was disappointed in what he said. He said he’s fine with running almost everything through Smith and TKR with some options for Fletcher. He actually said most teams do that and it’s OK because teams will struggle to stop all three. The problem I see with this is they’re forcing the offense even though teams are guarding effectively. The other issue is we can’t afford to have a team shutdown/neutralize even one of the big 3 because it’s been requiring big contributions from them all to win the games without struggling.
The disappointment for me comes from him not stating that when one or two or more of the big 3 are not scoring as normal or efficiently, that he sees the need to run stuff for someone else to make up the lacking contribution. Maybe that’s a given but it’d be good to hear and great to see!
We played Toledo yesterday and make no mistake, they are NOT a good team. Their D is ranked in the 300’s…there should not have been struggling by our Boilers to pull ahead and put them away.
I believe Colvin and Heide are hesitant to shoot or seek/hunt their shots because they don’t feel they are integral parts of the offense and are aware Painter wants the other 3 to provide the overwhelming balance of the scoring. I feel that way after hearing him speak multiple times, I’d assume they almost certainly have heard that message. Could relate to what some have pointed to as a lack of confidence by them.
All conjecture on my part and I’m aware Painter is a smart guy and experienced coach so hopefully my concerns are for naught.
Actually several teams have figured out how how to stop all three and at that point is gets pretty ugly with no plan B. We don't have good enough defense to hold teams in the 50s. I would like to see us ramp up the ball pressure when our offense it struggling. Maybe create a few turnovers and get some easy baskets (although we now seem to be struggling to even dunk).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Boiler Buck
Heide and Colvin have not shown the ability to hunt and make shots beyond a few rim runs by Heide. They have been mostly catch and shoot players from three or above the rim. They have not shown they have the handles to get their own shot, especially against teams with good athletes. That’s why they are hesitant to hunt shots. Teams scout Purdue and run at Heide and Colvin, making the open threes not so open. Heide takes advantage of this once every few games and gets to the rim , but not consistently like Loyer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Boiler Buck
Actually several teams have figured out how how to stop all three and at that point is gets pretty ugly with no plan B. We don't have good enough defense to hold teams in the 50s. I would like to see us ramp up the ball pressure when our offense it struggling. Maybe create a few turnovers and get some easy baskets (although we now seem to be struggling to even dunk).
One "potential problem" with ramping up ball pressure is the defensive player is in less optimal position for rebounding the ball by the very nature of the position for ball pressure. That is NOT to say a team can't do both, but only to say for a given player and his ability it does increase the difficulty in rebounding and so you want enough turnovers to compensate for the potential loss of boards.
 
Listened to Painters post game presser and was disappointed in what he said. He said he’s fine with running almost everything through Smith and TKR with some options for Fletcher. He actually said most teams do that and it’s OK because teams will struggle to stop all three. The problem I see with this is they’re forcing the offense even though teams are guarding effectively. The other issue is we can’t afford to have a team shutdown/neutralize even one of the big 3 because it’s been requiring big contributions from them all to win the games without struggling.
The disappointment for me comes from him not stating that when one or two or more of the big 3 are not scoring as normal or efficiently, that he sees the need to run stuff for someone else to make up the lacking contribution. Maybe that’s a given but it’d be good to hear and great to see!
We played Toledo yesterday and make no mistake, they are NOT a good team. Their D is ranked in the 300’s…there should not have been struggling by our Boilers to pull ahead and put them away.
I believe Colvin and Heide are hesitant to shoot or seek/hunt their shots because they don’t feel they are integral parts of the offense and are aware Painter wants the other 3 to provide the overwhelming balance of the scoring. I feel that way after hearing him speak multiple times, I’d assume they almost certainly have heard that message. Could relate to what some have pointed to as a lack of confidence by them.
All conjecture on my part and I’m aware Painter is a smart guy and experienced coach so hopefully my concerns are for naught.
I agree that most teams do NOT have 5 main scorers and accept the 3 main scorer thoughts. However, most team are getting some scoring outside the main three. What a difference the record would be if Myles and Cam contributed 6 pts a game each in the heat of a game
 
  • Like
Reactions: jimsil13
when one or two or more of the big 3 are not scoring as normal or efficiently, that he sees the need to run stuff for someone else to make up the lacking contribution.
I don’t think he agrees with your premise. When team scheme to take away the big three two things need to happen 1) if the defense is cheating off of the other two guys to take away the B3, the other two need to make them pay 2) MP and PJ need to do a better job of finding counters when the defense is selling out to take away certain actions.

Cam and Myles missing a bunch of open looks vs Toledo (and Texas A&M) is problematic but I wouldn’t confuse that with needing to run sets for players outside of the big three. Braden and Trey are also still learning to play without Zach and many times just need to execute better and make better decisions.
 
I agree that most teams do NOT have 5 main scorers and accept the 3 main scorer thoughts. However, most team are getting some scoring outside the main three. What a difference the record would be if Myles and Cam contributed 6 pts a game each in the heat of a game
I also agree that most teams have a main tier of scoring but not to exclusion of not adapting and running stuff for others when the main scores are being limited or taken away. We have been reduced to 4 guys standing and watching Braden when things are taken away or stymied. Don’t get me wrong I have long been a Paint supporter but with this particular team mix I believe some changes would be beneficial.
 
I also agree that most teams have a main tier of scoring but not to exclusion of not adapting and running stuff for others when the main scores are being limited or taken away. We have been reduced to 4 guys standing and watching Braden when things are taken away or stymied. Don’t get me wrong I have long been a Paint supporter but with this particular team mix I believe some changes would be beneficial.
If there are four guys standing and watching Braden, then it would naturally flow that things are taken away or stymied. I don't know if that is true, but with all the attention the main three get you would think the other two could find some baskets. Unless Matt or PJ just tells them to stand in the corner and spread the D waiting for a pass should it come, there are things they can do. If Purdue is intent on running sets that have little involvement of Myles/Cam...then I agree they need to be more involved. However, if they are NOT being hindered by being locked in to a certain spot and nothing is ran for them, set constant screens before thinking of yourself...pop...dive...slip, but REBOUND and if you are moving you just enhanced Purdue's chances at the boards. Course the next topic is who other than CJ scores off the bench...
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT