WOW, that is a huge change!!!
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...llow-players-to-return-to-school-if-undrafted
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...llow-players-to-return-to-school-if-undrafted
NCAA Announces CBB Rule Change to Allow Players to Return to School If Undrafted
- Thread starter sixpackpete
- Start date
Yep. Also allows "Elite" recruits and college players to hire agents. Not sure what it takes to be considered "Elite" though. This will get interesting for college coaches, as they now have even more uncertainty in their roster construction. However, I think it's great for the kids to have more options to make the best decision for their careers.
The draft rule will be hard on coaches trying to manage scholarships, but is undoubtedly in the best interest of the individual players.
I'm completely in favor of this. As others have said it makes it harder to manage your schollies, but overall I think it's a very positive change.
I think it's good for players. I do think this sort of helps blue bloods vs. other teams in that they have more players who will definitely leave for the NBA each year. So they have more roster openings that they can market early. Teams like Purdue with players with remaining eligibility who may or may not be drafted (& who will return if not drafted) will need to wait and see what happens in the draft. This has happened with the old model with agentless players participating in the combine, of course, but the period of uncertainty increases with the new model.
This has TROUBLE written all over it....One more case of not holding athletes accountable for their own decisions. Instead we are going to punish H.S. Athletes who were promised scholarships but don’t get them because someone else’s inflated egos and handlers thought they were better than they actually were so they come crying back unselected to their college team wanting their scholly back. I’m just getting waaay too old
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As long as this doesn't take away for the actual reason for attending college....academics.
I hope this weeds out the one's who do not want to go to college and the one's that do.....
Shouldn't hurt Purdue too bad since we always seem to want good kids (Christian, etc.), prideful/focused on academics and like the family atmosphere (wanting to stay 3 to 4 years).
Will be interesting how this helps or hurts college basketball as a whole.
Boiler Up!
I hope this weeds out the one's who do not want to go to college and the one's that do.....
Shouldn't hurt Purdue too bad since we always seem to want good kids (Christian, etc.), prideful/focused on academics and like the family atmosphere (wanting to stay 3 to 4 years).
Will be interesting how this helps or hurts college basketball as a whole.
Boiler Up!
Essentially this is insurance against bad pre-draft advice.
My first take is, if anything, this change alone will not impact the academic side of things much if at all. If anything it should give borderline/elite freshmen more motivation to go to class so they are eligible for that 2nd year if they don't get drafted. But the basketball factories have never had a problem keeping kids eligible, and none of that changes one bit with this news.
This has TROUBLE written all over it....One more case of not holding athletes accountable for their own decisions. Instead we are going to punish H.S. Athletes who were promised scholarships but don’t get them because someone else’s inflated egos and handlers thought they were better than they actually were so they come crying back unselected to their college team wanting their scholly back. I’m just getting waaay too old
I totally agree with you. I can't take it anymore. I'm taking a break ! maybe a long break. My heart and blood pressure has informed me I'm too old to argue Very few listen or agree anyway.
At one point long ago a player could be drafted and still return to school or get drafted out of HS and decide to go to college. It's one of the reasons professional teams pushed Fr the one and done and the either commit to the draft or pull their name out. So now if a kid is drafted second round, with no guaranteed contract, he can still not return to college. Or that's the way I read it.
Now shoe companies and agents can pay the parents of elite players.
Shoe companies won't care if the kid goes to college or pro. They just want the image. The agents want a cut of the NBA cash.
I agree with the poster above that this puts coaches in a crunch. Do they offer player B because player A may get drafted.
If player A comes back to UK, does the rest of the BB world scramble to offer player B. Eventually, down the scholarship grid, someone loses their scholarship.
And 15 officials? Can smaller colleges like PNW afford afford this?
Shoe companies won't care if the kid goes to college or pro. They just want the image. The agents want a cut of the NBA cash.
I agree with the poster above that this puts coaches in a crunch. Do they offer player B because player A may get drafted.
If player A comes back to UK, does the rest of the BB world scramble to offer player B. Eventually, down the scholarship grid, someone loses their scholarship.
And 15 officials? Can smaller colleges like PNW afford afford this?
Larry Bird falls in this category. Can't remember how many teams passed on him in 78 but I know the Leonard's wanted him but were overruled.
Mychal Thompson - Portland
Phil Ford - Kansas City
Rick Robey - Indiana
Michael Ray Richardson - New York
Purvis Short - Golden State
Wheeler Dealer "Red" Auerbach takes Larry Bird 6th and works out a deal after Bird returned to Indiana State to lead the Sycamores to the NCAA title game but before the rights expire when the '79 draft starts. NBA changed the draft rules after that.
Ironically, the Celtics acquired Robey for Billy Knight and then ultimately included him in the deal for Dennis Johnson from Phoenix.
Include the trade with Golden State that turned into Parish and McHale for JBC and you have the makings for the 80's run.
Way back when......Red made another draft deal involving the Ice Capades and another trade to get a kid named William Felton Russell. Not a bad move.
Do schools have to hold the scholarship open for the kid until the end of June?
And if they don’t, what school does the kid go to, and is he eligible right away?
If you think about it, this rule change does not affect the number and identity of kids leaving for the professional ranks. There are no more openings in the pro ranks.
All this does is make it harder for coaches to determine who goes and who stays. Better way to describe it is that the firm knowledge of who goes and who says is delayed until the kid either accepts a pro contract or comes back.
Now, most coaches already know who is ready for the pro game and who is not, so I think this whole change has little impact on the situation, but makes us fans me nervous when you hear your star player has retained an agent.
All this does is make it harder for coaches to determine who goes and who stays. Better way to describe it is that the firm knowledge of who goes and who says is delayed until the kid either accepts a pro contract or comes back.
Now, most coaches already know who is ready for the pro game and who is not, so I think this whole change has little impact on the situation, but makes us fans me nervous when you hear your star player has retained an agent.
Not every kid can hire an agent. Only those who have been deemed "elite" I believe by USA Basketball. Also the agent has to be a recognized agency. What that approved agent is likely to get sticky. I can see this causing a few lawsuits in both who is elite and what agents are approved.
Just a lurker, but wanted to mention another angle that I haven't heard mentioned anywhere...
I've heard multiple times about how this IU s great for the player, which it is. However, I've not seen it mentioned once that if player A returns from the draft, and it wasn't expected....what's player B thinking as he was the one who got players A scholarship spot?
I think this will end up helping a lot of people who will eventually make a bunch of money playing pro ball. Weather that's in the NBA, or overseas, but its going to hurt a lot of players who were never going to be good enough to make a consistent living playing basketball after college Is over.
Personally, I hate this rule beyond words! All this does is make it even harder for coaches each year who are trying to be honest and care about these kids. It's also going to remove any personal responsibility in these players to think out the possible negative outcomes from such a decision. Instead of the personal accountability being on the players shoulder, it's now been placed squarely on the shoulders of the coaches, and the player who barely got a scholarship.
It's been explained to me that its 5 officials during jr year, 5 during senior year and 5 during college years incase of a transfer. Also, currently, schools only get 24 officials during a 2 year stretch, that's been upped to a total of 28 during same 2 year span. So, not sure if this will really make much of a difference in the long run. But, what I do like about it, is it allows lower income families a little more freedom to look at schools. Currently, it could really hinder a poorer family from searching past driving distances on unofficial visits. Now, that same family can now search as far as they want and it wont hurt them in the long run if one of those visits went horribly wrong.
Oh yeah, also I heard that a player can only visit a school 1 time per year.
Here's more detailed information from the NCAA site on some of the rule changes:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/flexibility-going-pro-and-getting-degree
_______________________________
"Basketball student-athletes have more freedom and flexibility to decide about going pro or getting a college education, and they can receive financial assistance if they leave school early and wish to return later to finish their degree. Changes include:
More chances to visit colleges during and after high school
Basketball student-athletes can make more frequent campus visits paid for by colleges (referred to as official visits), which can begin as soon as Aug. 1 the summer before their junior year in high school. They can take:
Schools now can pay for 28 official visits for recruits (34 for national service academies) over a rolling, two-year period.
These rules are effective Aug. 15, 2018.
Agent representation for high school students
Pending a decision by the NBA and the National Basketball Players Association, high school basketball players can be represented by an agent beginning July 1 before their senior year in high school, provided they have been identified as an elite senior prospect by USA Basketball.
The effective date will be decided if/when the NBA and the NBPA permit high school students to enter the draft.
Agent representation for college students
College basketball players can be represented by an agent beginning after any basketball season if they request an evaluation from the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee.
This rule change is effective immediately.
Agents can pay for expenses
Agents can pay for meals and transportation for players and their families if the expenses are related to the agent selection process. Also, the student cannot miss class, and the money must be spent where the student lives or attends school. Additionally, high school and college student-athletes and their families can have meals, transportation and lodging paid for by an agent if those expenses are associated with meetings with the agent or a pro team.
These changes are subject to revisions to the Uniform Athlete Agents Act, Revised Uniform Athlete Agents Act and relevant state laws. If/when those are changed, the new rules are effective immediately.
Agent agreements
All agreements between agents and high school or college student-athletes must be:
Agent certification
To work with a high school or college athlete, agents must be certified by an NCAA program with standards for behavior and consequences for violations. Family members of the high school recruit or college athlete or those who act solely on behalf of a professional sports team aren’t required to be certified.
The deadline for agents to become certified is undetermined but will not be later than Aug. 1, 2020. Until then, NBPA-certified agents will be considered NCAA certified.
Making informed decisions
Since 2016, college athletes who are interested in going pro have been able to declare for the draft and attend the NBA combine but have been required to withdraw no more than 10 days after the combine to stay eligible. Now, students who wish to enter the draft also must request an evaluation from the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee, which will provide valuable information to assist student-athletes in making the decision to turn pro or stay in school.
This rule change is effective immediately.
NBA draft flexibility
College basketball players who request an Undergraduate Advisory Committee evaluation, participate in the NBA combine and aren’t drafted can return to school as long as they notify their athletics director of their intent by 5 p.m. the Monday after the draft.
This change is effective if/when the NBA and NBPA make an expected rule change, which would make undrafted student-athletes who return to college after the draft ineligible for the NBA until the end of the next college basketball season.
Degree completion assistance
Division I schools will be required to pay for tuition, fees and books for basketball players who leave school and return later to the same school to earn their degree. Former student-athletes will be eligible for financial assistance to complete their first degree if they were on scholarship and fewer than 10 years have passed since they left school. Additionally, students must have been in school for two years before leaving. Former student-athletes also must meet all the school’s admissions and financial aid requirements and must have exhausted all other funding options to be eligible, as well as meet all NCAA academic requirements.
This rule change is effective Aug. 1, 2019.
NCAA fund for degree completion
The NCAA is establishing a fund for schools that are otherwise unable to provide financial aid for basketball players to return to school. The fund will be available to schools defined as limited-resource by the NCAA Division I Academic Performance Program."
http://www.ncaa.org/about/flexibility-going-pro-and-getting-degree
_______________________________
"Basketball student-athletes have more freedom and flexibility to decide about going pro or getting a college education, and they can receive financial assistance if they leave school early and wish to return later to finish their degree. Changes include:
More chances to visit colleges during and after high school
Basketball student-athletes can make more frequent campus visits paid for by colleges (referred to as official visits), which can begin as soon as Aug. 1 the summer before their junior year in high school. They can take:
- Five visits between Aug. 1 and the end of their junior year of high school.
- Five visits between the end of their junior year and Oct. 15 after high school graduation.
- Five visits between Oct. 15 after high school graduation and the remainder of their college eligibility.
Schools now can pay for 28 official visits for recruits (34 for national service academies) over a rolling, two-year period.
These rules are effective Aug. 15, 2018.
Agent representation for high school students
Pending a decision by the NBA and the National Basketball Players Association, high school basketball players can be represented by an agent beginning July 1 before their senior year in high school, provided they have been identified as an elite senior prospect by USA Basketball.
The effective date will be decided if/when the NBA and the NBPA permit high school students to enter the draft.
Agent representation for college students
College basketball players can be represented by an agent beginning after any basketball season if they request an evaluation from the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee.
This rule change is effective immediately.
Agents can pay for expenses
Agents can pay for meals and transportation for players and their families if the expenses are related to the agent selection process. Also, the student cannot miss class, and the money must be spent where the student lives or attends school. Additionally, high school and college student-athletes and their families can have meals, transportation and lodging paid for by an agent if those expenses are associated with meetings with the agent or a pro team.
These changes are subject to revisions to the Uniform Athlete Agents Act, Revised Uniform Athlete Agents Act and relevant state laws. If/when those are changed, the new rules are effective immediately.
Agent agreements
All agreements between agents and high school or college student-athletes must be:
- In writing.
- Terminated when the student enrolls in or returns to college.
- Disclosed to the NCAA (for high school students) or the school (for students already in college).
Agent certification
To work with a high school or college athlete, agents must be certified by an NCAA program with standards for behavior and consequences for violations. Family members of the high school recruit or college athlete or those who act solely on behalf of a professional sports team aren’t required to be certified.
The deadline for agents to become certified is undetermined but will not be later than Aug. 1, 2020. Until then, NBPA-certified agents will be considered NCAA certified.
Making informed decisions
Since 2016, college athletes who are interested in going pro have been able to declare for the draft and attend the NBA combine but have been required to withdraw no more than 10 days after the combine to stay eligible. Now, students who wish to enter the draft also must request an evaluation from the NBA Undergraduate Advisory Committee, which will provide valuable information to assist student-athletes in making the decision to turn pro or stay in school.
This rule change is effective immediately.
NBA draft flexibility
College basketball players who request an Undergraduate Advisory Committee evaluation, participate in the NBA combine and aren’t drafted can return to school as long as they notify their athletics director of their intent by 5 p.m. the Monday after the draft.
This change is effective if/when the NBA and NBPA make an expected rule change, which would make undrafted student-athletes who return to college after the draft ineligible for the NBA until the end of the next college basketball season.
Degree completion assistance
Division I schools will be required to pay for tuition, fees and books for basketball players who leave school and return later to the same school to earn their degree. Former student-athletes will be eligible for financial assistance to complete their first degree if they were on scholarship and fewer than 10 years have passed since they left school. Additionally, students must have been in school for two years before leaving. Former student-athletes also must meet all the school’s admissions and financial aid requirements and must have exhausted all other funding options to be eligible, as well as meet all NCAA academic requirements.
This rule change is effective Aug. 1, 2019.
NCAA fund for degree completion
The NCAA is establishing a fund for schools that are otherwise unable to provide financial aid for basketball players to return to school. The fund will be available to schools defined as limited-resource by the NCAA Division I Academic Performance Program."
What if the school already gave out all 13 of their scholarships by the time of the draft? If you have 3 kids going thru the draft process, you are certainly going to sign some replacements for them between April and June, right?
Yeah, that's the problem. At some point schools are going to need to fill those openings rather than just waiting around. I would like to see if there will be a rule that says schools must leave scholarships open for the possible return of undrafted players. It puts both the school and athlete in a bad spot. School has to wait around and could miss out on other recruits. Athlete could go undrafted and then not have a spot left for him anymore.
When it comes to "these" types of players, college is seldom about academics. It's about a necessary stepping stone to fulfill their dreams of playing professionally. Not saying this is good or bad.
Exactly! This is great for the player that's going to eventually make a bunch of money in the NBA, or overseas, but its really going to screw the 12th and 13th players on the team. Unfortunately, those guys will almost certainly not play major professional basketball. It's a "robbing Peter to pay Paul" type of thing. It's great to be Paul here, but I doubt Peter will think it's for his best.
It also doesn't address the whole signing date fiasco that goes on now. Not sure why they didn't drop that too.
I hate this rule. To me it just comes across as another step to turn college basketball in to NBA "light".
And for me at least, it's just ruing the game......guess I'm just too old school.
And for me at least, it's just ruing the game......guess I'm just too old school.
agree...we should just quit pretending this is amateur sports if this is the direction. Stop dealing with scholarships. just pay them. who cares if they go to class.This has TROUBLE written all over it....One more case of not holding athletes accountable for their own decisions. Instead we are going to punish H.S. Athletes who were promised scholarships but don’t get them because someone else’s inflated egos and handlers thought they were better than they actually were so they come crying back unselected to their college team wanting their scholly back. I’m just getting waaay too old
I hate everything about this. However, it's good for the player and makes sense because it allows the NCAA to keep some elite players that think they will be drafted and don't.
I would just bring them back as a "walk-on." Regarding "elite Player" status, I think there will be big problems with recruiting some players because of promises to obtain that status for the player. And there will always be arguments about who should have that status and who shouldn't.
This is only good for the player who thinks he is really better than he actually is....Definitely not better for the player who thinks he is coming into the University with a scholly that gets pulled because someone declaring for the draft didn’t make the cut so now wants to come back to school on his old scholarship. This door swings both ways and young men are going to get smacked on one side of this deal.....
I have no problem with college players leaving, not getting drafted and then finding no scholarship waiting for their return. It’s called learning to be accountable for one’s poor decisions.
No, if those “lesser” players sign LOIs in April or May and take scholarships 12 and 13, then it’s the undrafted player who gets left without a chair.
If this "return to school" option is limited to kids that were invited to & attended the NBA draft combine, this rule change doesn't affect nearly as many kids as the headlines imply.
The problem with this is that theres no way a coach is going to keep players who would be at the bottom of their roster over their star player. Think of it this way, if Carson had stayed in but didn't get drafted...theirs no way CMP would look at him and tell him sorry, I gave your scholarship to a player I'm hoping in 3 years can average 10 to 15 minutes per game. I think what you would see is even worse widespread "creaning" then what going on now.
Won't happen till 2022, at least. NBA & PA have to work on a new CBA. USA Basketball doesn't want to say who is "elite". NCAA didn't even tell NBA & USA B, they were announcing this. So, nothing's happening for a few years. Sure made everyone's ears prick up. lol So, I'm not wasting anymore of my time, thinking about something out in the future.
http://scorecenter.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24320626/undefined
http://scorecenter.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24320626/undefined
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This has TROUBLE written all over it....One more case of not holding athletes accountable for their own decisions. Instead we are going to punish H.S. Athletes who were promised scholarships but don’t get them because someone else’s inflated egos and handlers thought they were better than they actually were so they come crying back unselected to their college team wanting their scholly back. I’m just getting waaay too old
Who says the college has to hold their scholarship? The kid could leave and if they aren’t drafted could end up being forced to transfer.
Ultimately I like the ruling if they move the draft forward a bit more.
The draft isn’t going to move forward. It’s already only a week after the end of the finals.
This past draft all but about 4/6 players in the 2nd round got guaranteed contract. Brunson javon carter to name a few. Even some undraftrd FA got 2 way deals or 1/3 year contracts so it’s not the end of the world. But I will say this whole rule change is all screwed up. Who says who the elite player is and who don’t. Kids develop differently. Steph curry wasn’t elite in HS neither was Dwayne Wade or kawhai leanord all developed as they got into college or at least had opportunities to showcase their game. To me the Ncaa just threw something together to satisfy themselves thinking they did something right but yet did not inform the USA or NBA on their ideas but went ahead and made the changes without any involvement with the USA or NBA. Gonna be interesting in the coming weeks or months if some of these rules get changed bcuz of there lack of communication with the 2 organization that was suppose to have some say so in these changes.
The guaranteed contracts are so they can lock them in at a Rookie scale salary for three or four years. Otherwise they run the risk of losing them after one or two years.
