National Perspective

[collegehoopsfan123]

I hope Painter delivers Purdue to the Final Four this year.
I want Purdue to get there every year and win it all.

But until Painter does, you will have fans (including me) that think
Purdue should be playing 10 guys, more up-tempo, running people
out of the gym, and with big men like Robbie Hummel and JaJuan Johnson
that can space the floor for more driving angels and shot blocking abilities on defense.

I know it was only 1 game, but I loved what Booker from MSU showed. JJ 2.0 potential.
Purdue should have gotten him being from Indy. Flory Bidunga would have been nice, too.
With all the success JaJuan Johson had, Purdue should have had a couple more like him
by now.....someone that can block 15 foot jump shots from opposing big men, too. Cuonzo
Martin could flat out recruit,,,,,Baby Boilers. NIL aside, Painter needs a lead recruiter /
fundraiser like Cuonzo to give Purdue maximum opportunities to make the Final Four and often.

2025 looks like we are headed more in this direction, but Painter still should
play 9 or 10 guys big minutes the entire season including March.

2024 won't be Purdue's last chance to make the FF and win. The 2024 recruiting class is
encouraging, but Purdue needs classes like this on a consistent basis to maximize
yearly March Madness success. Because the Baby Boilers in 2007 was long ago.

Playing hard and shooting well is great, but you got to have the talent and athletic ability
as well to win big in March. Go Boilers!

 

[boilerzz]

Agree to disagree with most of what you typed.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

I get it to a degree, and if this March is like the last one, there's more credence to your thoughts.

I will say this, as a big Cuonzo Martin fan from back to COM 114, I'd love for there to be a place for him on this staff, but right now there clearly isn't. I can't imagine he wouldn't be Painter's first call if Lusk or Johnson were to move on.

 

[Gemini95]

Why is the title national perspective when the post is all your personal perspective?

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Why is the title national perspective when the post is all your personal perspective?

Because my thoughts are about winning a NC.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Agree to disagree with most of what you typed.

My buddy's prediction:
2024 Elite 8
2025 National Title

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Agree to disagree with most of what you typed.

What part do you agree with?

 

[Boiler Buck]

What part do you agree with?

Not zz but.....
Agree that 2024 won't be Purdue's last chance to make a FF.

The rest.....some spectacular writing!!

 

[boilerzz]

What part do you agree with?

I think can win in March with a variety of styles. Just 5 years ago, Virginia won with skill and defense. Last year, UConn won with Sanogo and Clingan alternating in the post.

Basketball to me is like business. Find what you do better than anyone else and leverage it to success. Matt Painter is clearly now known as the best big man developer in the country. Going completely away from that when it's produces a record number of wins is irrational IMO.

Purdue didn't lose because we had a traditional center last year. We lost because we had a true freshman backcourt that wore down and weren't ready to lead.

As for recruiting, Purdue has what very well could be it's best recruiting class ever coming in next year and that's on the heels of some pretty damn good classes the last couple of years. Previously under Painter, Purdue would get a great recruiting class and then a couple of mediocre ones. He is now backing great classes up with great classes. That doesn't sound to me like someone that needs a new recruiting lead.

Lastly, very, very few programs go 10 deep. Most of the ones that have were loaded with talent and still didn't live up to expectations (see UK). There is a reason why most successful teams roll with an 8-9 man rotation when on the big stage.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

I think can win in March with a variety of styles. Just 5 years ago, Virginia won with skill and defense. Last year, UConn won with Sanogo and Clingan alternating in the post.

Basketball to me is like business. Find what you do better than anyone else and leverage it to success. Matt Painter is clearly now known as the best big man developer in the country. Going completely away from that when it's produces a record number of wins is irrational IMO.

Purdue didn't lose because we had a traditional center last year. We lost because we had a true freshman backcourt that wore down and weren't ready to lead.

As for recruiting, Purdue has what very well could be it's best recruiting class ever coming in next year and that's on the heels of some pretty damn good classes the last couple of years. Previously under Painter, Purdue would get a great recruiting class and then a couple of mediocre ones. He is now backing great classes up with great classes. That doesn't sound to me like someone that needs a new recruiting lead.

Lastly, very, very few programs go 10 deep. Most of the ones that have were loaded with talent and still didn't live up to expectations (see UK). There is a reason why most successful teams roll with an 8-9 man rotation when on the big stage.

Glad we agree that Purdue can win in March beyond 2024.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Not zz but.....
Agree that 2024 won't be Purdue's last chance to make a FF.

The rest.....some spectacular writing!!

Thank you!!

 

[BoilerMaker P]

There might be something to that given that the big man for Painter’s deepest run was Matt Haarms and the big man for Keady’s deepest run was Greg McQuay. Neither was the big hulking bruiser C, but fairly skinny, mobile 5s.

 

[boilerzz]

There might be something to that given that the big man for Painter’s deepest run was Matt Haarms and the big man for Keady’s deepest run was Greg McQuay. Neither was the big hulking bruiser C, but fairly skinny, mobile 5s.

That's a ridiculously small sample size and ignores a bunch of other factors. Also, Keady also had a similarly deep run with Brad Miller, did he not?

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

There might be something to that given that the big man for Painter’s deepest run was Matt Haarms and the big man for Keady’s deepest run was Greg McQuay. Neither was the big hulking bruiser C, but fairly skinny, mobile 5s.

Exactly!! And Brandon Brantley and Ian Stanback similar to McQuay
on Keady's other Elite 8 team in 94.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

That's a ridiculously small sample size and ignores a bunch of other factors. Also, Keady also had a similarly deep run with Brad Miller, did he not?

Sweet 16 for Brad Miller, not Elite 8 like McQuay or Haarms
but Brad Miller played inside and out.

Would love to see Edey take Purdue to Phoenix, but as of now

Brandon Brantley / Ian Stanback in 94, McQuay in 00, and Haarms
in 19 are Purdue's post players on their 3 Elite 8 runs since 1980 FF.

All could step out and hit the 15 foot jump shot / were more mobile.

And JaJuan Johnson would have been Purdue's starting C in 2010
on a FF team if not for Hummel's knee. Another versatile, mobile big man.

 

[BoilerMaker P]

That's a ridiculously small sample size and ignores a bunch of other factors. Also, Keady also had a similarly deep run with Brad Miller, did he not?

Yeah, well, that sort of comes with the territory when you’ve had three elite 8 appearances since 1980.

Those were the most recent, deepest runs for each coach.

 

[Gemini95]

Plug in any of our starting centers from the last 30 years and I'm pretty sure the 94 team is still going to the elite 8.

 

[boilerzz]

Plug in any of our starting centers from the last 30 years and I'm pretty sure the 94 team is still going to the elite 8.

Hell, if Wisconsin hadn't bought Rashard Griffith, that team would have almost certainly made the Final Four with a traditional center.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Plug in any of our starting centers from the last 30 years and I'm pretty sure the 94 team is still going to the elite 8.

I want to see Edey lead Purdue to the FF this year.

Our best 3 runs since 1980 (1994, 2000, 2019) say otherwise.

 

[Gemini95]

I want to see Edey lead Purdue to the FF this year.

Our best 3 runs since 1980 (1994, 2000, 2019) say otherwise.

correlation is not causation

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Hell, if Wisconsin hadn't bought Rashard Griffith, that team would have almost certainly made the Final Four with a traditional center.

Many people on message boards want to prove other people wrong.

The current facts don't lie: our best 3 runs since 1980 (1994, 2000, 2019)
say mobile, athletic, big man with a jump shot get it done at Purdue.

Like I said earlier, I would love to see a traditional center (Edey) lead Purdue
to the FF in Phoenix next month. But its yet to happen since 1980.

And Joe Barry Carroll in 1980 was athletic for a traditional center at 7'0''.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Exactly!! And Brandon Brantley and Ian Stanback similar to McQuay
on Keady's other Elite 8 team in 94.

They got beat by a Duke team with a 7-foot center. Hmmm...

 

[boilerzz]

They got beat by a Duke team with a 7-foot center. Hmmm...

Yep. Just an odd take.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

They got beat by a Duke team with a 7-foot center. Hmmm...

All you want to do is prove someone wrong.

 

[northside100]

The current facts don't lie:

Do you have any concept at all as to how data actually works?

 

[Gemini95]

Stanback was a dawg but I was at every home game that year and the 2 in Knoxville and his "mobility and ability to step out and hit a 15 foot jumper" were pretty far down the list of succes factors that year, if they existed to any great extent at all.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Do you have any concept at all as to how data actually works?

No comment.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Stanback was a dawg but I was at every home game that year and the 2 in Knoxville and his "mobility and ability to step out and hit a 15 foot jumper" were pretty far down the list of succes factors that year, if they existed to any great extent at all.

At least you provide some good discussion without having to be
right all the time. Thank you!

 

[Gemini95]

At least you provide some good discussion without having to be
right all the time. Thank you!

For the record I generally agree that I prefer a mobile big to a post vacuum.

 

[BoilerAndy]

All you want to do is prove someone wrong.

And you want to prove something wrong is right?

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

And you want to prove something wrong is right?

1994, 2000, and 2019 did not have traditional centers
in the starting lineup leading Purdue to 3 Elite 8 appearances.
These are historical facts.

I hope Zach can buck the Purdue trend and take us to the FF.

 

[northside100]

No comment.

Are you at all familiar with the idea of spurious correlation versus causality?

 

[BoilerAndy]

1994, 2000, and 2019 did not have traditional centers
in the starting lineup leading Purdue to 3 Elite 8 appearances.
These are historical facts.

I hope Zach can buck the Purdue trend and take us to the FF.

At the time, everyone felt that if Purdue had gotten the 7-footer they nearly signed, they would have won the National Championship in 1994. They were called a "donut team".

But yours is a strange take after another great win by the Boilers. Not to mention you taking it vary personally when someone points out a historical fact.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

Yep. Just an odd take.

People that think they know it all can't be convinced otherwise.

I'm just laying out some historical facts from 1994, 2000, and 2019.

I hope Zach (traditional center) can lead us to the FF this year.

Our current history since 1980 says no. But I hope Zach can buck this

Purdue trend in 2024.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

At the time, everyone felt that if Purdue had gotten the 7-footer they nearly signed, they would have won the National Championship in 1994. They were called a "donut team".

But yours is a strange take after another great win by the Boilers. Not to mention you taking it vary personally when someone points out a historical fact.

You are referring to yourself taking it very personal.

 

[boilerzz]

People that think they know it all can't be convinced otherwise.

I'm just laying out some historical facts from 1994, 2000, and 2019.

I hope Zach (traditional center) can lead us to the FF this year.

Our current history since 1980 says no. But I hope Zach can buck this

Purdue trend in 2024.

You act like Brantley, Stanback and McQuay were new age bigs. None really shot outside of 10 feet. McQuay was the only one that would be considered agile.

 

[collegehoopsfan123]

You act like Brantley, Stanback and McQuay were new age bigs. None really shot outside of 10 feet. McQuay was the only one that would be considered agile.

You know it all bro.

 

[BoilerTom90]

My buddy's prediction:
2024 Elite 8
2025 National Titl

No way next year is better than this year. Not without Zach.

 

[BoilerMaker P]

It is a little odd how defensive some of you all get on here. Nobody’s saying that Zach can’t do it. To be honest, of the Elite 8 years, 1994 is about Glenn Robinson, 2019 was Carsen Edwards, and 2000 was just kind of a bracket got busted due to some upsets and Purdue found themselves playing higher seeds than they should have.

That being said, the OP was about the big men. It was not a Scheffler or Rowinski style bruiser at center when Keady made the Elite 8. Again, Greg McQuay was not shooting 3s but he was not the Purdue center of the 80s and 90s either.

Now looking at Painter’s teams since Jujuan Johnson (who I believe if Hummel doesn’t blow out his knee that 2010 team has a pretty good shot at going to the final four). After that:

Hammons lost first round 8 seed Cincinnati
Hammons with Biggie and Haas lost first round to 12 seed Little Rock
Haas with Biggie lost sweet 16 to 1 seed Kansas
Haas with Haarms lost sweet 16 to 3 seed Texas Tech (*Haas injured in 1st round,Haarms moved to starter)
Haarms with Trevion lost elite 8 to 1 seed Virginia
Trevion with Edey lost first round to 13 seed North Texas
Trevion with Edey lost sweet 16 to 15 seed St. Peter’s
Edey with Furst? Lost 1st round to 16 seed FDU

Do with that data what you will. I still stand by my point that if you’re going to play through Edey, the other guys hitting shots is the key. If, and that is a very big “if”, they play and shoot like they did in the 2nd half tonight, they can get to places Purdue hasn’t been in a long time. And if they do, Zach stakes a very strong claim to Purdue GOAT.

 

[BoilerAndy]

You are referring to yourself taking it very personal.

My sense is that you are very young and did not see any of those teams play. It's very likely Zack has made more 3 pointers than the centers you named on that 94 team combined.