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Murdered DNC staffer was Wikileaks source

It is indeed pennies. If you want them to pay. Support ways to improve their incomes so they can indeed pay more.
About the programs:
foodstamps? minimal cost, net plus to the economy (between being a subsidy to farmers and grocery stores, as well increase in public safety by not having people commit desperate acts for food)

Section 8: woefully underfunded. wait-list often up to 2 to 3 years in several places. This is more like a lottery for the poor than a benefits. The lucky few get it. The others.. meh.

can't speak much to disability. I have never paid too much attention to the economic analysis of it.
Foodstamps - During the Obama administration, foodstamp usage and abuse went up significantly. The length of time people could collect was increased in many (predominantly blue) states, such as CT. Some states provide(d) these to illegal aliens, as well. Many states have reverted the duration back to pre-recession levels.
Section 8 Housing - Here in CT, Section 8 housing has recently been built in predominantly red and generally weathier) towns in order to socially engineer the demographics to be more favorable to the already predominantly blue state legislature. (A form of anti-gerrymandering - something the Ds always decry.) Some towns have seen increases in crime, caused largely by the people in the Section 8 housing, who never could have afforded to live in these towns otherwise.
Disability fraud - is a big deal, although the government has been cracking down on the fraud more recently. It's harder to collect this now without the help of a seasoned attorney.
 
Foodstamps - During the Obama administration, foodstamp usage and abuse went up significantly. The length of time people could collect was increased in many (predominantly blue) states, such as CT. Some states provide(d) these to illegal aliens, as well. Many states have reverted the duration back to pre-recession levels.
Section 8 Housing - Here in CT, Section 8 housing has recently been built in predominantly red and generally weathier) towns in order to socially engineer the demographics to be more favorable to the already predominantly blue state legislature. (A form of anti-gerrymandering - something the Ds always decry.) Some towns have seen increases in crime, caused largely by the people in the Section 8 housing, who never could have afforded to live in these towns otherwise.
Disability fraud - is a big deal, although the government has been cracking down on the fraud more recently. It's harder to collect this now without the help of a seasoned attorney.

Let me get this straight. you had a problem with foodstamp expansion when unemployment >10% (and probably over 30% in the population most likely to use foodstamp). Apart from helping people literally stave off hunger, it is also was a fairly well-targeted and effective stimulus. Cutting it back as the economy improves makes sense. By every economic measure, foodstamps are some of the biggest bang we get for our federal bucks. Now if you are motivated by things other than economics, you might feel differently.
 
By every economic measure, foodstamps are some of the biggest bang we get for our federal bucks.
Food stamps are lunacy. Giving someone a debit card to buy whatever he/she wants simply invites abuse.

We need food banks, not food stamps. Heck, I'd even favor front door delivery for those who wanted it. It would be bread, milk, fruits and veggies, cheap cuts of meat, cheese, butter, eggs. No more filet mignon, fried chicken or pizza.
 
Food stamps are lunacy. Giving someone a debit card to buy whatever he/she wants simply invites abuse.

We need food banks, not food stamps. Heck, I'd even favor front door delivery for those who wanted it. It would be bread, milk, fruits and veggies, cheap cuts of meat, cheese, butter, eggs. No more filet mignon, fried chicken or pizza.

Is that how you also feel about subsidized school lunches?
 
Food stamps are lunacy. Giving someone a debit card to buy whatever he/she wants simply invites abuse.

We need food banks, not food stamps. Heck, I'd even favor front door delivery for those who wanted it. It would be bread, milk, fruits and veggies, cheap cuts of meat, cheese, butter, eggs. No more filet mignon, fried chicken or pizza.
I am arguing economics, you are arguing your own version of morality. I will repeat, by every economic measure, food stamps are a helluva deal. That you are willing to cut off your nose to spite your face is your business. Why are some people so jealous as to be obsessed with with those much poorer than them are doing? I just don't get it. If you are so jealous of the poor, go become one of them.
 
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Your question makes no sense. Subsidized school lunches are an excellent example of a "food bank". You're giving the kids food to eat, not a debit card that they can use to buy whatever they want.

I just assumed you were ok with free choice. That's all. School lunches impose certain limited choices on low income kids (i.e. those who can't afford to bring their own lunches to school), often times including pizza or fried chicken.

In fact, conservatives lost their shit when Michelle Obama spearheaded guidelines to ensure lunches would he healthier and more nutritious. Seems you have a similar philosophy for "food banks."

I'd think truly fiscal conservatives would be interested in analyses looking into the most cost-effective ways of implementing social welfare policies. I'm assuming debit cards have far lower overhead costs than anything you proposed, even when considering supposed "abuse."
 
I just assumed you were ok with free choice. That's all. School lunches impose certain limited choices on low income kids (i.e. those who can't afford to bring their own lunches to school), often times including pizza or fried chicken.

In fact, conservatives lost their shit when Michelle Obama spearheaded guidelines to ensure lunches would he healthier and more nutritious. Seems you have a similar philosophy for "food banks."

I'd think truly fiscal conservatives would be interested in analyses looking into the most cost-effective ways of implementing social welfare policies. I'm assuming debit cards have far lower overhead costs than anything you proposed, even when considering supposed "abuse."
"...conservatives lost their shit when Michelle Obama spearheaded guidelines to ensure lunches would be healthier and more nutritious..." because this health food advocate was a lardass with gluteals as large as watermelons.
 
"...conservatives lost their shit when Michelle Obama spearheaded guidelines to ensure lunches would be healthier and more nutritious..." because this health food advocate was a lardass with gluteals as large as watermelons.

Oh yeah, I forgot you were a troll. Thanks for reminding me.
 
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topix.com, from someplace in ny in 2012? That's your proof?

And you say you held a position of responsibility in the US military?

I trust gr8, qaz, stairway...but based on your posts, weeding out frauds in the food stamp program many not be the governments most pressing problem.
wow, some random unverifiable probably trolling post from 5 years ago is what some people call data! God help us all.
 
As basically everyone has said and that article confirms, there is fraud, but it's not nearly as widespread as you make it out to be. 1.6% of food stamp spending goes to that racket. But sure, let's punish 40 million people for the actions of 2% of them.
How about this scenario I see often. Man and woman live together, not married with children. Man works full time, good job. Woman stays home on disability with a fake disease like fibromyalgia or works part time, "rents" room in house from the man, gets snap, tax breaks, etc...If they were married, they would not get all these benefits. Unless I'm mistaken, this is not technically illegal, but I consider it abuse. I would bet scenarios similar this happen more than 1% of the time...
41M individuals on SNAP is suspicious, to say the least...
 
How about this scenario I see often. Man and woman live together, not married with children. Man works full time, good job. Woman stays home on disability with a fake disease like fibromyalgia or works part time, "rents" room in house from the man, gets snap, tax breaks, etc...If they were married, they would not get all these benefits. Unless I'm mistaken, this is not technically illegal, but I consider it abuse. I would bet scenarios similar this happen more than 1% of the time...
41M individuals on SNAP is suspicious, to say the least...
How often do you see that? I doubt you put yourself in a situation to see that, and I think this is anecdotal about one or two times you've seen that in your life, which is pretty much what all this villification of the poor comes down to for you guys.

41M people is like 12% of the country. What do you think the poverty level is here?
 
How often do you see that? I doubt you put yourself in a situation to see that, and I think this is anecdotal about one or two times you've seen that in your life, which is pretty much what all this villification of the poor comes down to for you guys.

41M people is like 12% of the country. What do you think the poverty level is here?
The better question is WHY is the poverty level so high? Our poverty rate compared to other developed countries is embarrassing. But is that because the woman in my example would be considered "poor"? Are people in the USA really that poor or do we just rig our definitions to make things look worse. Your attack on me shows how shallow your thought is. You can't take the emotion out of it. 12% of the country...that less than 50% are paying for!
 
The better question is WHY is the poverty level so high? Our poverty rate compared to other developed countries is embarrassing. But is that because the woman in my example would be considered "poor"? Are people in the USA really that poor or do we just rig our definitions to make things look worse. Your attack on me shows how shallow your thought is. You can't take the emotion out of it. 12% of the country...that only 50% are paying for!
It's an attack on you? You said, "How about this scenario I see often?" I called you on it. How often have YOU seen it? Answer the question.
 
It's an attack on you? You said, "How about this scenario I see often?" I called you on it. How often have YOU seen it? Answer the question.
More times than I can count. I have two in the family alone on what I consider fake disability. One figured it out and the other copied. They are both of able mind and body who live with someone else paying the bills while they collect the cheese. I have seen it with many other families as well. Different variations of the same thing. absurd section 8 house rentals, phony diseases, injures, whatever. anything to wring that extra dollar out of the system. It would take me all day to write up the abuse I alone have witnessed.
 
More times than I can count. I have two in the family alone on what I consider fake disability. One figured it out and the other copied. They are both of able mind and body who live with someone else paying the bills while they collect the cheese. I have seen it with many other families as well. Different variations of the same thing. absurd section 8 house rentals, phony diseases, injures, whatever. anything to wring that extra dollar out of the system. It would take me all day to write up the abuse I alone have witnessed.
The disability claim by people is a large problem which I have seen over and over. People go to the doctor and claim their back is hurting. Some of these people have lost their jobs and unemployment ran out so they claim they are hurt.

I don't think most anyone is against helping truly disabled people. Like I said earlier, we all have seen different things in our lives causing us to come to different conclusions. This may be another example.
 
More times than I can count. I have two in the family alone on what I consider fake disability. One figured it out and the other copied. They are both of able mind and body who live with someone else paying the bills while they collect the cheese. I have seen it with many other families as well. Different variations of the same thing. absurd section 8 house rentals, phony diseases, injures, whatever. anything to wring that extra dollar out of the system. It would take me all day to write up the abuse I alone have witnessed.
How many times have you personally seen the food stamp scenario you said you've seen often?

I'm betting the answer is zero. Quit dodging and changing the subject. I've said in this thread that I think unemployment and disability are widely abused and need to be tightened up. But that's not what we were taking about. We were talking about WIC fraud which applies to less than 2% of folks cited in Boris' article.
 
How many times have you personally seen the food stamp scenario you said you've seen often?

I'm betting the answer is zero. Quit dodging and changing the subject. I've said in this thread that I think unemployment and disability are widely abused and need to be tightened up. But that's not what we were taking about. We were talking about WIC fraud which applies to less than 2% of folks cited in Boris' article.
At least 4 variants of it for sure and I suspect others. I've seen a restaurant worker, truck driver, and a fed ex distribution worker do it and a personal friend's parents do it. One works, one collects and they set up renting or subletting agreements between them. They buy whatever they want with the job money and use the government assistance for necessities. You don't see it in the military as much because they give you extra pay for having the spouse so there's no incentive. It's easy and I'm pretty sure it's technically legal. It's a huge amount of money. like 500 a month for snap alone. Personal effects and property aren't taken into account for snap. It's crazy. You can live in a mansion and collect if you wanted. All you have to do is keep your liquid assets near zero, have little income, and you technically are eligible. Dont' get married and keep all the money with daddy and boom, wife and child are "living in poverty". Is that fraud?
 
I know of three young ladies in their late 20's doing just as described. Work part time and have a live in boy friend. They have 5 kids between them ages from 2 to 11. My sister who is divorced, has 5 kids and a live in boy friend, she has a 40,000/year job. My x brother in law makes decent money yet my nieces and nephews went to college on a 21st century scholarships.
Two of my daughters class mates got knocked up in high school and went to college on my dollar.
Now my son went to college through the military, daughter 1 got two years paid for through academic scholarships, daughter 2 cost me 100,000.
I don't deny these young people of poorer families an education. And all of the above are doing well. But what signal does it send to kids that kept their head on straight, did good and watch their class mates that messed up get a free ride.
Or these single women get knocked up, live with their boy friend, don't get married, on purpose so we can pay for the hospital bills for their baby.
Everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions. All these kids have dads. Where is the responsibility on their part.
 
As basically everyone has said and that article confirms, there is fraud, but it's not nearly as widespread as you make it out to be. 1.6% of food stamp spending goes to that racket. But sure, let's punish 40 million people for the actions of 2% of them.
You truly believe that food stamp fraud is only 1.6%? Half of the people on food stamps don't belong on the program yet none of them are included in the "fraud" statistics. And that 1.6% number came from Dept of Ag so-called "investigators" who don't really want to find any fraud. They want to perpetuate the farce.

Let's punish 25 million people who are food stamp cheaters and continue the program as food banks for the 25 million low life losers who really need it.
 
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I know of three young ladies in their late 20's doing just as described. Work part time and have a live in boy friend. They have 5 kids between them ages from 2 to 11. My sister who is divorced, has 5 kids and a live in boy friend, she has a 40,000/year job. My x brother in law makes decent money yet my nieces and nephews went to college on a 21st century scholarships.
Two of my daughters class mates got knocked up in high school and went to college on my dollar.
Now my son went to college through the military, daughter 1 got two years paid for through academic scholarships, daughter 2 cost me 100,000.
I don't deny these young people of poorer families an education. And all of the above are doing well. But what signal does it send to kids that kept their head on straight, did good and watch their class mates that messed up get a free ride.
Or these single women get knocked up, live with their boy friend, don't get married, on purpose so we can pay for the hospital bills for their baby.
Everyone needs to be held accountable for their actions. All these kids have dads. Where is the responsibility on their part.
i understand how that might feel unfair. I really do. It is just really isn't that easy to kick out fraudstars without affecting legitimate folks.
 
You are some kind of lunatic if you truly believe that food stamp fraud is only 1.6%. Christ, half of the people on food stamps don't belong on the program yet none of them are included in the "fraud" statistics. And that 1.6% number came from Dept of Ag so-called "investigators" who don't really want to find any fraud. They want to perpetuate the farce.

Let's punish 25 million people who are food stamp cheaters and continue the program as food banks for the 25 million low life losers who really need it.
Nah, I don't think that. I just think it's funny that that's the best proof of widespread fraud you could find. Between that and the anecdote TSB shared it's just incontrovertible. LOL. You calling anyone else a lunatic is comedy.
 
At least 4 variants of it for sure and I suspect others. I've seen a restaurant worker, truck driver, and a fed ex distribution worker do it and a personal friend's parents do it. One works, one collects and they set up renting or subletting agreements between them. They buy whatever they want with the job money and use the government assistance for necessities. You don't see it in the military as much because they give you extra pay for having the spouse so there's no incentive. It's easy and I'm pretty sure it's technically legal. It's a huge amount of money. like 500 a month for snap alone. Personal effects and property aren't taken into account for snap. It's crazy. You can live in a mansion and collect if you wanted. All you have to do is keep your liquid assets near zero, have little income, and you technically are eligible. Dont' get married and keep all the money with daddy and boom, wife and child are "living in poverty". Is that fraud?
If it's legal, it's not. Surely you don't want the government telling people when they have to get married, do you?
 
How many times have you personally seen the food stamp scenario you said you've seen often?

I'm betting the answer is zero. Quit dodging and changing the subject. I've said in this thread that I think unemployment and disability are widely abused and need to be tightened up. But that's not what we were taking about. We were talking about WIC fraud which applies to less than 2% of folks cited in Boris' article.
They are capping the incremental food stamp increase at 6 people per family. I'm sorry, but if you don't have a decent job, stop at 4 kids. Duh.
 
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name me one human inititiative - public or private, that there isn't someone somewhere taking advantage of it. Fraud will always exist, no matter how well crafted the rules are. That a tiny minority perpetuates fraud is not a reason to shut down a program whose overall economic value is very positive.
 
name me one human inititiative - public or private, that there isn't someone somewhere taking advantage of it. Fraud will always exist, no matter how well crafted the rules are. That a tiny minority perpetuates fraud is not a reason to shut down a program whose overall economic value is very positive.
The abuse would essentially disappear overnight if we switched from food stamps to food banks. The supporters of the food stamp program refuse to acknowledge this obvious fact.

Let's give food to the needy, not food stamps. Address that issue and stop whining about "shutting down the program". I did not propose ending assistance to those who need it. I support the school feeding program and food banks for the needy. Food stamps invite abuse and abuse is rampant.
 
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The abuse would essentially disappear overnight if we switched from food stamps to food banks. The supporters of the food stamp program refuse to acknowledge this obvious fact.

Let's give food to the needy, not food stamps. Address that issue and stop whining about "shutting down the program". I did not propose ending assistance to those who need it. I support the school feeding program and food banks for the needy.
Such juvenile and stupid thinking. What makes people believe complex problems that many smart people have worked on have such simple solutions. I expect this level of thinking uneducated idiots, not a college grad.

Apart from the human dignity aspect of forcing limited choices on people just because they are poor, your system will be more expensive and will not work as well. It is economically less efficient than foodstamps. Let me humor you.

We switch to foodbanks and that will make abuse disappear. how? why? If we define abuse as taking benefits that you really don't need and therefore shouldn't qualify for. What about food banks will change that? A creative fraudstar will just go to the foodbank, collect non-perishable items in bulk e.g. canned foods. He will then proceed to the parking lot of the neighborhood grocery store. And sell those canned foods at half price for cash. He is still making a profit (since he got it for free), and the buyer is still getting a deal, they are buying it cheaper than they would at the grocery store. Basically, all you end up doing is exchanging trade of foodstamps for trade in canned goods. There will still be shady indivually owned corner stores stocking their shelves with food bought from food-bank resellers. You haven't reduced fraud one teeny bit. You have just succeeded in changing the form.

How about the program administration cost? It will definitely increase! How? changing to foodbanks doesn't change the cost of determining who should and shouldn't be eligible for how much. So that part of the cost stays the same. But here is where the increase comes from. For food banks, you have new logistics cost (i.e. the cost of making sure the right goods are available at the right locations at the right time). Right now, grocery stores shoulder the cost of logistics because that's their business. Giving out foodstams means government just doesn't have to do with food logistics. Switching to foodbanks entirely, creates a whole new cost structure.

So recap, we get new additional costs (mostly from logistics) without any decrease in eligibility determination cost, and no tangible decrease in fraud. Basically, a program that does less, costs more and wastes more. What a stupid solution. Go back and think some more. Half-baked idiotic ideas won't cut it.
 
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So obesity rates weren't higher among low-income folks before Michelle Obama came along?

seriously, am I on a Purdue board or on yahoo board? I am tired of responding to stupid thinking. Dude, I am always ready to engage in serious and intelligent debates. But I am done with idiotic ones. This is another post that will require I educate you. I am tired of doing it for free. Please persist in your half-baked, half-educated opinions.
 
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Such juvenile and stupid thinking. What makes people believe complex problems that many smart people have worked on have such simple solutions. I expect this level of thinking uneducated idiots, not a college grad.

Apart from the human dignity aspect of forcing limited choices on people just because they are poor, your system will be more expensive and will not work as well. It is economically less efficient than foodstamps. Let me humor you.

We switch to foodbanks and that will make abuse disappear. how? why? If we define abuse as taking benefits that you really don't need and therefore shouldn't qualify for. What about food banks will change that? A creative fraudstar will just go to the foodbank, collect non-perishable items in bulk e.g. canned foods. He will then proceed to the parking lot of the neighborhood grocery store. And sell those canned foods at half price for cash. He is still making a profit (since he got it for free), and the buyer is still getting a deal, they are buying it cheaper than they would at the grocery store. Basically, all you end up doing is exchanging trade of foodstamps for trade in canned goods. There will still be shady indivually owned corner stores stocking their shelves with food bought from food-bank resellers. You haven't reduced fraud one teeny bit. You have just succeeded in changing the form.

How about the program administration cost? It will definitely increase! How? changing to foodbanks doesn't change the cost of determining who should and shouldn't be eligible for how much. So that part of the cost stays the same. But here is where the increase comes from. For food banks, you have new logistics cost (i.e. the cost of making sure the right goods are available at the right locations at the right time). Right now, grocery stores shoulder the cost of logistics because that's their business. Giving out foodstams means government just doesn't have to do with food logistics. Switching to foodbanks entirely, creates a whole new cost structure.

So recap, we get new additional costs (mostly from logistics) without any decrease in eligibility determination cost, and no tangible decrease in fraud. Basically, a program that does less, costs more and wastes more. What a stupid solution. Go back and think some more. Half-baked idiotic ideas won't cut it.
Which of Trump's food stamp cuts, specifically, do you disagree with?
 
Which of Trump's food stamp cuts, specifically, do you disagree with?
Excuse me? Do you have me mixed up with someone else? kindly point to where I disagreed with "Trump's food stamp cuts"?

or are you asking for my opinion on Trump's proposed food stamps cuts?
 
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