Morton Redshirt

[SCBoiler1]

Good discussion. Couple of points:

1. I think Painter has done a fantastic job at developing players. Yes, they may not have sustained NBA careers, but getting them to develop into a pro player (nba and overseas) can't be overlooked IMO.

2. The sustained pro success isn't up to Painter

I get what your saying and I do think Painter helps guys maximize there potential, but Painter really doesn't have a lot of guys playing professionally. From the source I was able to find there currently only 14 "ex Boliers" playing pro ball.

Purdue Players Currently Playing Professionally - RealGM

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1. Only three 4-year guys from Purdue are playing oversees (JJ, Kramer, and Haas).
2. Four of the guys on the list aren't truly Purdue guys in my view because they left Purdue before they ran out of eligibility (Barlow, Scott, Stephens, and Sandi M)
3. Three played 1 year or less at Purdue (Proctor, Octeus, and Ewing)
4. One played 2 years (Calason).
5. As previously noted Moore and Edwards are in the NBA
6. Vince is in the G League.

From the source I had Mathias wasn't listed, so I'm not sure what he's doing after he got released by the 76ers a few weeks ago. I assume he'll be playing somewhere.

As for comparison Indiana has 26 guys playing professionally. Ohio State and Maryland have 25. 14 is the same number as Nebraska. Illinois has the fewest in the B10 with 10.

Again this is not a knock on Painter. IMO he is a great college coach but Purdue doesn't turn out anymore professional ready basketball players than anybody else, especially if you consider how successful the program has been under Painter.

 

[Purdue85]

These threads become so bizarre.

 

[KingofJersey]

I get what your saying and I do think Painter helps guys maximize there potential, but Painter really doesn't have a lot of guys playing professionally. From the source I was able to find there currently only 14 "ex Boliers" playing pro ball.

Purdue Players Currently Playing Professionally - RealGM

Purdue basketball scores, news, schedule, players, stats, photos, rumors, depth charts on RealGM.com

basketball.realgm.com

1. Only three 4-year guys from Purdue are playing oversees (JJ, Kramer, and Haas).
2. Four of the guys on the list aren't truly Purdue guys in my view because they left Purdue before they ran out of eligibility (Barlow, Scott, Stephens, and Sandi M)
3. Three played 1 year or less at Purdue (Proctor, Octeus, and Ewing)
4. One played 2 years (Calason).
5. As previously noted Moore and Edwards are in the NBA
6. Vince is in the G League.

From the source I had Mathias wasn't listed, so I'm not sure what he's doing after he got released by the 76ers a few weeks ago. I assume he'll be playing somewhere.

As for comparison Indiana has 26 guys playing professionally. Ohio State and Maryland have 25. 14 is the same number as Nebraska. Illinois has the fewest in the B10 with 10.

Again this is not a knock on Painter. IMO he is a great college coach but Purdue doesn't turn out anymore professional ready basketball players than anybody else, especially if you consider how successful the program has been under Painter.

60 players get drafted with about 10 being international players per year. That means top 50 prospects are expected to be drafted. Has Painter ever had a top 50 prospect that wasn't drafted? Are there any Purdue recruits that had NBA expectations when they arrived (not just from themselves) that didn't make it? Every recent Purdue player that has made it to the NBA owes some of that to Painter overdeveloping them. I understand the argument that Painter underperforms in recruiting, but he definitely does not have an issue developing guys.

 

[Purdue85]

60 players get drafted with about 10 being international players per year. That means top 50 prospects are expected to be drafted. Has Painter ever had a top 50 prospect that wasn't drafted? Are there any Purdue recruits that had NBA expectations when they arrived (not just from themselves) that didn't make it? Every recent Purdue player that has made it to the NBA owes some of that to Painter overdeveloping them. I understand the argument that Painter underperforms in recruiting, but he definitely does not have an issue developing guys.

 

[BoilerAndy]

How is Gillis’ ranking indicative of your point? His first year at Purdue he redshirted because he wasn’t ready. His second year he is a role player averaging 5 points and 4 rebounds. That’s exactly what I would expect out of a player ranked around 200. You don’t get many stars ranked below 150.

BTW, you use Gillis to make your point, but completely ignore Dow. Ranked in the same area as Gillis and has never seen a significant minute in his career.

You think Gillis is not having an impact? How a bout Edey? Impact, or no?

 

[Purdue2018]

You think Gillis is not having an impact? How a bout Edey? Impact, or no?

There is a difference between being an impact player and being a role player. We most likely have a different definition of impact player.

 

[Purdue85]

There is a difference between being an impact player and being a role player. We most likely have a different definition of impact player.

Grady Eifert, brother.

Role player, extraordinaire.

IMPACT player, to the max.

 

[BoilerAndy]

There is a difference between being an impact player and being a role player. We most likely have a different definition of impact player.

I think you are right. For Gillis to do what he has done, starting as a freshmans and winning a B1G FOTY award, In my opinion defines an impact player.

 

[ImRonBurgandy?]

I get what your saying and I do think Painter helps guys maximize there potential, but Painter really doesn't have a lot of guys playing professionally. From the source I was able to find there currently only 14 "ex Boliers" playing pro ball.

Purdue Players Currently Playing Professionally - RealGM

Purdue basketball scores, news, schedule, players, stats, photos, rumors, depth charts on RealGM.com

basketball.realgm.com

1. Only three 4-year guys from Purdue are playing oversees (JJ, Kramer, and Haas).
2. Four of the guys on the list aren't truly Purdue guys in my view because they left Purdue before they ran out of eligibility (Barlow, Scott, Stephens, and Sandi M)
3. Three played 1 year or less at Purdue (Proctor, Octeus, and Ewing)
4. One played 2 years (Calason).
5. As previously noted Moore and Edwards are in the NBA
6. Vince is in the G League.

From the source I had Mathias wasn't listed, so I'm not sure what he's doing after he got released by the 76ers a few weeks ago. I assume he'll be playing somewhere.

As for comparison Indiana has 26 guys playing professionally. Ohio State and Maryland have 25. 14 is the same number as Nebraska. Illinois has the fewest in the B10 with 10.

Again this is not a knock on Painter. IMO he is a great college coach but Purdue doesn't turn out anymore professional ready basketball players than anybody else, especially if you consider how successful the program has been under Painter.

Good find. Noticed these are guys currently playing professionally and doesn't include guys like Hummel, Hammons, Grant, Swanigan, etc. I think we're on the same page. My overall point was Painter has a pretty good track record of taking 4 star guys (outside the top 30-40) and developing them to the point where they can play professionally and earn a pretty nice living.

Note: there is about to be a boatload of guys from Purdue in the pros here shortly

 

[Purdue2018]

I think you are right. For Gillis to do what he has done, starting as a freshmans and winning a B1G FOTY award, In my opinion defines an impact player.

Gillis is a redshirt freshman. His first year in the program he didn’t contribute anything. That’s very often what should be expected from a lower ranked player, which is my point.

My definition of an impact player is being one of the team’s best players. This likely stems from the NCAA college football game (for all you video game nerds), where each team had two or 3 impact players listed on their roster. These players were always the best players on the team.

For me, a role player is not an impact player.

 

[Purdue85]

Gillis is a redshirt freshman. His first year in the program he didn’t contribute anything. That’s very often what should be expected from a lower ranked player, which is my point.

My definition of an impact player is being one of the team’s best players. This likely stems from the NCAA college football game (for all you video game nerds), where each team had two or 3 impact players listed on their roster. These players were always the best players on the team.

For me, a role player is not an impact player.

Gillis is not a good example, or point of discussion. He had been off the court for so long, there was no way he should have played last year.

In fact, I don't think a lot of people really understand the significance of his injury.

It's a shame. The kid was also a STUD baseball player (played for the Bulls, if memory serves).

 

[PurdueDave]

Gillis is a redshirt freshman. His first year in the program he didn’t contribute anything. That’s very often what should be expected from a lower ranked player, which is my point.

My definition of an impact player is being one of the team’s best players. This likely stems from the NCAA college football game (for all you video game nerds), where each team had two or 3 impact players listed on their roster. These players were always the best players on the team.

For me, a role player is not an impact player.

Two questions: 1) what was Mason's final star rating coming out of high school? 2) What do recruiting services tell us to expect for someone with that star rating?

 

[Purdue2018]

Two questions: 1) what was Mason's final star rating coming out of high school? 2) What do recruiting services tell us to expect for someone with that star rating?

1. His final star rating was a 3*.
2. Recruiting services don’t provide expectations for a given star level.

 

[PurdueDave]

1. His final star rating was a 3*.
2. Recruiting services don’t provide expectations for a given star level.

Actually they do (although I can't find Rivals definition). From ESPN, a 3 star is a mid-major plus prospect. Player is a fringe high-major recruit who contributes or a standout mid-major level recruit.

They leave starters for 4 and 5 star players

Here is their 4 and 5 star definitions:
5 star - Player demonstrates rare abilities. He should have an immediate impact at a national program with the potential for early entry into the NBA.

4 star - Player is the centerpiece to a high-major program who starts three to four years.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Gillis is a redshirt freshman. His first year in the program he didn’t contribute anything. That’s very often what should be expected from a lower ranked player, which is my point.

My definition of an impact player is being one of the team’s best players. This likely stems from the NCAA college football game (for all you video game nerds), where each team had two or 3 impact players listed on their roster. These players were always the best players on the team.

For me, a role player is not an impact player.

Even bringing up Gillis' rating to make a point about him redshirting shows a complete lack of understanding about a Purdue basketball player. You claim his final rating sets your expectations for a player's impact, and in your mind, explains his redshirt. He was injured his junior year in high school, had 2 surgeries, and did not play his senior year. Very good players who don't play do not get high ratings, so his rating was obviously going to be low. No one knows how high he would have been rated had he played his senior year.

 

[BoilerAndy]

1. His final star rating was a 3*.
2. Recruiting services don’t provide expectations for a given star level.

Please provide the link that shows his final rating was a 3-star.

 

[KingofJersey]

Please provide the link that shows his final rating was a 3-star.

If you learn to use the google machine it is very easy to find that Gillis was a 4 star recruit by Rivals, 4 star by ESPN, and 3 star by 247

 

[purduepat1969]

Gillis is a redshirt freshman. His first year in the program he didn’t contribute anything. That’s very often what should be expected from a lower ranked player, which is my point.

My definition of an impact player is being one of the team’s best players. This likely stems from the NCAA college football game (for all you video game nerds), where each team had two or 3 impact players listed on their roster. These players were always the best players on the team.

For me, a role player is not an impact player.

I don't think Gillis is a very good example. He had an extremely bad injury in high school. And you can see how much impact he's had this season already.

There have been several lower ranked players who've been better than advertised. You're seeing one example of that in Zach Edey this year. Haarms was another. Carsen was a 3* that made a pretty big contribution his freshman season (10 ppg, 3 boards, and 2 assists). He was the 4th leading scorer behind Biggie, Haas, and Vince.

 

[BoilerAndy]

If you learn to use the google machine it is very easy to find that Gillis was a 4 star recruit by Rivals, 4 star by ESPN, and 3 star by 247

Yeah, thanks for letting me know about this googly giggly thingy. (I mainly use DuckDuckGo, not Google.)

So the question is, did Painter waste a scholarship on a 3-star according to 247, or did he do the right thing by signing a 4-star according to ESPN and Rivals? Can we expect that someday, somehow, Gillis may be a starter and a possible impact player based on Rivals and ESPN, or is he doomed to be a role player based on 247?

BTW before you answer that, consider that when Gillis was injured his junior year he was rated 80 spots higher than Ivey was at the same point in Ivey's junior year. Ratings tell everything.

 

[Purdue2018]

Even bringing up Gillis' rating to make a point about him redshirting shows a complete lack of understanding about a Purdue basketball player. You claim his final rating sets your expectations for a player's impact, and in your mind, explains his redshirt. He was injured his junior year in high school, had 2 surgeries, and did not play his senior year. Very good players who don't play do not get high ratings, so his rating was obviously going to be low. No one knows how high he would have been rated had he played his senior year.

You brought Gillis up, not me. He was a fringe 4* before he got hurt.

Please provide the link that shows his final rating was a 3-star.

Here you go:

 

[Purdue2018]

I don't think Gillis is a very good example. He had an extremely bad injury in high school. And you can see how much impact he's had this season already.

There have been several lower ranked players who've been better than advertised. You're seeing one example of that in Zach Edey this year. Haarms was another. Carsen was a 3* that made a pretty big contribution his freshman season (10 ppg, 3 boards, and 2 assists). He was the 4th leading scorer behind Biggie, Haas, and Vince.

I didn’t bring Gillis up. The other poster brought Gillis up as being an example of a player who was low ranked and an impact player. I disagreed and gave my reasoning.

Edey is better than his 400+ ranking. Given what we know now he probably should have been in the 150-200 range. Haarms was in the same boat.

As for Carsen, I stated there are outliers. He is one of those outliers that outplay their rankings from the start.

 

[BoilerAndy]

You brought Gillis up, not me. He was a fringe 4* before he got hurt.

Here you go:

View embedded media

But your comments about Gillis proving your point was so off-base...
Some clarification was requested.

 

[Purdue2018]

But your comments about Gillis proving your point was so off-base...
Some clarification was requested.

If you want to leave Gillis out of the discussion on a technicality, that’s fine. Show me 3* players we’ve had that have been big time contributors as freshmen.

Furthermore, you say rankings don’t matter, right? Give me the average ranking for the starting 5 of the last 20 teams to compete in the national championship. Then give me the average ranking of our last 10 years of starters. You think our average ranking will look like the teams competing for national championships?

 

[Abugabby]

Give me the average ranking for the starting 5 of the last 20 teams to compete in the national championship. Then give me the average ranking of our last 10 years of starters.

Do it yourself lazy ass.

 

[Purdue2018]

Do it yourself lazy ass.

I already know the answer.

 

[BoilerAndy]

I already know the answer.

This information was posted here. Look at the previous Final Four. 2019.

I said that Matt Painter does not care about player rankings, as proven by how high payers are rated when he offers. You somehow disagreed with that. You then decided that Loyer will not amount to much solely based on his rating as a junior! You claimed players ranked in the "75-150 range" are not expected to be major contributors. Ivey, Edey, Gillis, and Newman are proving that is not true and that maybe Painter knows what he is doing when he offers players that are not ranked higher than 75. So you repeatedly changed your criteria, like you are doing now. You now want to disqualify Gillis because he doesn't fit your narrative. (And you apparently did not know his history.) That's the problem with making broad statements that don't require thinking. They don't take individual situations. Trevion Williams and Zach Edey were unrated 3-stars when they committed to Purdue. Trevion finished rated at 128 by Rivals and a 3-Star by 247. Edey was never rated. I trust Painter over the rating sites.

 

[Purdue2018]

This information was posted here. Look at the previous Final Four. 2019.

I said that Matt Painter does not care about player rankings, as proven by how high payers are rated when he offers. You somehow disagreed with that. You then decided that Loyer will not amount to much solely based on his rating as a junior! You claimed players ranked in the "75-150 range" are not expected to be major contributors. Ivey, Edey, Gillis, and Newman are proving that is not true and that maybe Painter knows what he is doing when he offers players that are not ranked higher than 75. So you repeatedly changed your criteria, like you are doing now. You now want to disqualify Gillis because he doesn't fit your narrative. (And you apparently did not know his history.) That's the problem with making broad statements that don't require thinking. They don't take individual situations. Trevion Williams and Zach Edey were unrated 3-stars when they committed to Purdue. Trevion finished rated at 128 by Rivals and a 3-Star by 247. Edey was never rated. I trust Painter over the rating sites.

Okay dude, if you are going to misconstrue everything I say, we are done here. I’ve been very consistent in my posting that Final rankings are indicative of how a player will perform in college. I’ve also consistently acknowledged CMP doesn’t look at recruiting rankings nor does he care.

I never said anything close to “Loyer will not amount to much”. Just another one of your lies.

YOU want to disqualify Gillis’ ranking, not me. His ranking and performance so far help me make my point. Same with Edey, Newman, and Ivey.

Williams was not a huge contributor his first year. 10 mpg. 5 points. 4 rebounds.

Edey plays like a 3* which is to be expected and FINE! He could develop into something really good for us, but it’s not like he is out there dominating right now which is what you are trying to say. Let’s not forget that CMP recruited Dickinson and Kalkbrenner before moving on to Edey. Both top 50 players.

Once again, do yourself a favor and look up our average recruiting ranking for our starting 5 compared to the last 10 championship game teams. It will be eye opening for you.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

There is a difference between being an impact player and being a role player.

You must never have played the game.

 

[Purdue2018]

You must never have played the game.

I outlined my thoughts on impact player definition.

 

[destewart]

IT is very very much like his brother: an undersized spot up 3 pt shooter.

Big difference in strength!

 

[Roeder]

Okay dude, if you are going to misconstrue everything I say, we are done here. I’ve been very consistent in my posting that Final rankings are indicative of how a player will perform in college. I’ve also consistently acknowledged CMP doesn’t look at recruiting rankings nor does he care.

I never said anything close to “Loyer will not amount to much”. Just another one of your lies.

YOU want to disqualify Gillis’ ranking, not me. His ranking and performance so far help me make my point. Same with Edey, Newman, and Ivey.

Williams was not a huge contributor his first year. 10 mpg. 5 points. 4 rebounds.

Edey plays like a 3* which is to be expected and FINE! He could develop into something really good for us, but it’s not like he is out there dominating right now which is what you are trying to say. Let’s not forget that CMP recruited Dickinson and Kalkbrenner before moving on to Edey. Both top 50 players.

Once again, do yourself a favor and look up our average recruiting ranking for our starting 5 compared to the last 10 championship game teams. It will be eye opening for you.

Fee Fy Fo Fum, I smell the blood of a Trojanman.

 

[samcboiler]

Does anyone know why Morton didn't play 1 second in the game against Northwestern. I watched it late and was fast forwarding though commercials and free throws. I'm sure they said it but I missed it. I really like Morton and believe he will be a star at Purdue. Probably in 2-3 years.

 

[SCBoiler1]

Does anyone know why Morton didn't play 1 second in the game against Northwestern. I watched it late and was fast forwarding though commercials and free throws. I'm sure they said it but I missed it. I really like Morton and believe he will be a star at Purdue. Probably in 2-3 years.

I think it’s because he’s currently the 6th guard and the game was fairly close.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

I would disagree. and also why would you want to keep a 6th year player around? and give him minutes that could go to a talented player? Are yo u going to try to tell me that next year you'd rather see Wheeler playing more minutes than Furst or kaufman, just because he's experienced? if the player doesn't elevate their game by their third year, they will be recruited over. If morton doesn't show anything next year, we have two guards coming in the following year to take over. if he wants to stay, fine. But I'd rather use the scholarship on somebody who will contribute. the same applies to Dow, Wheeler, and IT. I really don't want any of these three players sticking around for 6 years just to take up space on the roster. let them stay for 4 years / 5 years max. They are doing nobody a favor by staying six. Staying six means they will never turn pro, so why not get your degree and get on with your life. yes, some football players are staying an extra year. I'm not sure why. the ones wh o are staying have no pro future. they just don't want to go out into society.

I disagree. Shocking, I know.

You can't get 13 guys on your roster that have a pro future. You couldn't possibly play them all. The OAD blue blood schools don't do that. Their rosters are filled out with lower ranked guys who stay four years but barely ever play. There's nothing wrong with that. You still need practice bodies and scout team players. No one is talking about Furst and Kaufman vs Wheeler here. The topic is about Morton.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

the problem is , while you'd love to have those players stay 6 years, the likelihood is players like that with pro aspirations would leave as soon as they received a pro offer. No way would Hammonds or Edwards or haas have stayed 6 years. I would be great if BIG DOG and Biggie stayed 6 years too. But let's be realistic!!!!!

take a look at the football players who are staying for 6 years. Are any of them players you really wanted to stay 6 years? NO .

Being realistic, the type of players who would stay 6 years, are not the guys you mention, but rather guys like Wheeler. Don't lie to us and don't lie to yourself. and stop the fantasies.

Cline had an opportunity to stay one more year and said it's time to move on.

Is there a headslap emoji?

 

[samcboiler]

I think it’s because he’s currently the 6th guard and the game was fairly close.

I was hoping for a non sarcastic reply. He has played in every game when he is healthy and looked decent in the previous game hitting a nice 3 pointer. He is a 4 star player and will be a great Boiler someday. You don't bench a guy flat out that has a future. I can see playing him 5-7 minutes. But not zero. Does anyone else have any real input on this??? Thanks.

 

[Purdue2018]

I was hoping for a non sarcastic reply. He has played in every game when he is healthy and looked decent in the previous game hitting a nice 3 pointer. He is a 4 star player and will be a great Boiler someday. You don't bench a guy flat out that has a future. I can see playing him 5-7 minutes. But not zero. Does anyone else have any real input on this??? Thanks.

We won the game. Who cares if a certain player plays 4-5 minutes or not? If you are asking if he is hurt or something like that, the answer is no.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

I was hoping for a non sarcastic reply. He has played in every game when he is healthy and looked decent in the previous game hitting a nice 3 pointer. He is a 4 star player and will be a great Boiler someday. You don't bench a guy flat out that has a future. I can see playing him 5-7 minutes. But not zero. Does anyone else have any real input on this??? Thanks.

I think it's a combination of Sasha being back and Ivey becoming more of a go-to player. That equals fewer minutes at the 1-3. Plus, Painter has gotten to playing Hunter and IT together for stretches lately.

 

[KingofJersey]

I was hoping for a non sarcastic reply. He has played in every game when he is healthy and looked decent in the previous game hitting a nice 3 pointer. He is a 4 star player and will be a great Boiler someday. You don't bench a guy flat out that has a future. I can see playing him 5-7 minutes. But not zero. Does anyone else have any real input on this??? Thanks.

Painter post-game interview 4:58 Brian asks about Ethan

 

[BoilerAndy]

I think it's a combination of Sasha being back and Ivey becoming more of a go-to player. That equals fewer minutes at the 1-3. Plus, Painter has gotten to playing Hunter and IT together for stretches lately.

This was going to be my response. Ivey has been playing well and playing more. And this was Sasha's (former starter) return to play.

EDIT: Painter via KingofJersey's link confirms it. No injury.