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MBB Practice 10/25/16

And, of course, it's not entirely fair to compare Dakota's first two years to Matt's, since not only did Dakota not take a redshirt year to acclimate to the B1G game, he was also hobbled considerably by illness/injury as a freshman. Assuming he's healthy, I'm guessing we'll see a great year out of Mathias this season.
There are times when the offense really flows due to Dakota's passing. He and Spike appear to be the best passers as far as great passes. PJ has made a lot of smart passes that necessarily didn't set someone up in some fashion only to make a great pass. "IF" Dakota gets really effective with his shot to go with his in-between game...the offense will flourish.
 
There are times when the offense really flows due to Dakota's passing. He and Spike appear to be the best passers as far as great passes. PJ has made a lot of smart passes that necessarily didn't set someone up in some fashion only to make a great pass. "IF" Dakota gets really effective with his shot to go with his in-between game...the offense will flourish.
A line-up that I would like to see is Spike, CE, Mathias, VE, and Swanigan, with Swanigan setting a lot of ball screens for the three guards. I think that would put Spike and Dakota in a great position to exploit their passing and shooting ability, as well as allowing Carsen to gain an advantage attacking the rim, The shooting and passing ability in that line-up should make it very difficult for defenses to adjust and bring help.
 
There are times when the offense really flows due to Dakota's passing. He and Spike appear to be the best passers as far as great passes. PJ has made a lot of smart passes that necessarily didn't set someone up in some fashion only to make a great pass. "IF" Dakota gets really effective with his shot to go with his in-between game...the offense will flourish.

We saw glimpses of that last year....looking forward to seeing if that develops more for DM, and I agree.....that will make the "O" go.
 
A line-up that I would like to see is Spike, CE, Mathias, VE, and Swanigan, with Swanigan setting a lot of ball screens for the three guards. I think that would put Spike and Dakota in a great position to exploit their passing and shooting ability, as well as allowing Carsen to gain an advantage attacking the rim, The shooting and passing ability in that line-up should make it very difficult for defenses to adjust and bring help.

I agree and think we might see that as the season develops....especially with a lead down the stretch. Depending upon how things shake out......in certain game scenarios, you could have RC available for "sniping." The suggested line-up would make it much more difficult (IMO) for opposing defenses to help off of players than certain line-ups from last year. Even with losing some experienced key players, CMP has more options and versatility on offense this year.
 
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A line-up that I would like to see is Spike, CE, Mathias, VE, and Swanigan, with Swanigan setting a lot of ball screens for the three guards. I think that would put Spike and Dakota in a great position to exploit their passing and shooting ability, as well as allowing Carsen to gain an advantage attacking the rim, The shooting and passing ability in that line-up should make it very difficult for defenses to adjust and bring help.
I expect to see that. Course they will be smaller and the problems associated with that...and defensive questions...but I expect to see that some
 
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I wasn't questioning Keady. He did the right thing for Matt and I know that Matt missed practice when it interfered with his degree. Keady was totally supportive, as was the School of Pharmacy.
Oh, I know you weren't. My comment was referencing someone earlier in the thread who questioned Keady's decision to redshirt Matt. They obviously did not understand the circumstances. Keady did the right thing to support an obvious decision for the young man's future.
 
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You think? The way I saw it, Shoshi was open in the corner by design because Hammons was playing his one man zone and not worrying about boxing out a seven footer camped out in the corner, while Mathias was guarding his own man who was crashing the boards. When the rebound took an odd bounce and went straight to the corner Mathias closed nicely to alter the shot without fouling. The shot was off badly, but took a fortuitous bounce (from a Little Rock perspective). Mathias wasn't perfect, but I am not sure how you expect him to guard two players better than he did on that play.

He didn't do that great of a job closing out on him. He never stands directly in front of Shoshi (he had a second to do that and he didn't). He has his hands up to the right of Shoshi and then turns (sort of a matador close-out). He might have better altered the shot if he stood his ground directly in front of Shoshi instead moving off to the side of Shoshi. Watch the video (from 1:25:56 to 1:26:10):

Actually, I forgot that they showed a slow-motion replay as well. Watch from 1:26:19 to 1:26:31. Mathias CLEARLY did not stand directly in front of Shoshi. He stood to Shoshi's right (our left from that angle).

It's a moot point, but don't pretend that Mathias made as great of a close-out as possible in that instance.
 
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He didn't do that great of a job closing out on him. He never stands directly in front of Shoshi (he had a second to do that and he didn't). He has his hands up to the right of Shoshi and then turns (sort of a matador close-out). He might have better altered the shot if he stood his ground directly in front of Shoshi instead moving off to the side of Shoshi. Watch the video (from 1:25:56 to 1:26:10):

Actually, I forgot that they showed a slow-motion replay as well. Watch from 1:26:19 to 1:26:31. Mathias CLEARLY did not stand directly in front of Shoshi. He stood to Shoshi's right (our left from that angle).

It's a moot point, but don't pretend that Mathias made as great of a close-out as possible in that instance.


NO! DM is coached to go to the position he did. He was able to sort of pin the LR player to the sideline and challenge the pass to the center of the floor. If that player were to drive the ball, he would have to also contend with the baseline. The fact that the shot went in was pure luck. Also, the kid had his toe on the line and it should have been a two point goal.
 
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He didn't do that great of a job closing out on him. He never stands directly in front of Shoshi (he had a second to do that and he didn't). He has his hands up to the right of Shoshi and then turns (sort of a matador close-out). He might have better altered the shot if he stood his ground directly in front of Shoshi instead moving off to the side of Shoshi. Watch the video (from 1:25:56 to 1:26:10):

Actually, I forgot that they showed a slow-motion replay as well. Watch from 1:26:19 to 1:26:31. Mathias CLEARLY did not stand directly in front of Shoshi. He stood to Shoshi's right (our left from that angle).

It's a moot point, but don't pretend that Mathias made as great of a close-out as possible in that instance.
I thought it looked like a well executed close out against a much taller, right handed player, but I'm fine with you seeing it differently.

Mathias isn't perfect, but I think that he plays well in pressure situations, while he had teammates (who I won't name now) who did not play well in these situations over the past two years and particularly in that game. It sounds like you disagree and I am ok with that.
 
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I thought it looked like a well executed close out against a much taller, right handed player, but I'm fine with you seeing it differently.

Mathias isn't perfect, but I think that he plays well in pressure situations, while he had teammates (who I won't name now) who did not play well in these situations over the past two years and particularly in that game. It sounds like you disagree and I am ok with that.
many...many coaches force "baseline" to try to cut the court in half. Here Dakota attacks his "shooting hand" as well as making it difficult for the big guy to put it on the floor since he is right handed. I too have no issue with the close out and actually prefer it over a straight up square in this situation. Purdue was very unfortunate in many of the shots that UALR made and this was another. What none of us know is the scouting report where UALR was reviewed as a "team" and "individually" which almost always has different rules for different players. I imagine their coach thought they shouldn't have doubled down with Dakota's man on AJ seconds before when Dakota hit a big one. I do NOT think Dakota was taught specifically to close out the way he did on that man personally, but as a general approach towards baseline and shooting hand comparison...a lefty capable of driving he might have closed out more square. Again, we do not know the scouting report and many teams (Purdue does) push to the sideline and give up baseline (with AJ...this year?). A slower, big guy that may not be quick enough to get to the basket was a time that Dakota made an attack on the shooting hand... preferable I would think in this situation. UALR made some pretty unlikely baskets that if one missed Purdue wins. Not sure I would want the have the team paired with Purdue in the tourney this year.
 
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Wow....I guess now THIS is taking a "hard look" at the film.

As to the point about the ALR player's toe on the line. I think many of us thought the same thing during the Game Thread.....but then the replay showed how he got the toe back behind the line just in time for the shot.

Sure, there were some bad breaks/lucky bounces (however you want to label it) along with some poor decisions/execution, and a "dash" of panic/unawareness I suppose. Mix it all together, and it was a "bad beat" for the Boilers and Purdue followers. It's a game I would rather forget (but can't), but I hope the players learn from it.....we shall see.
 
Wow....I guess now THIS is taking a "hard look" at the film.

As to the point about the ALR player's toe on the line. I think many of us thought the same thing during the Game Thread.....but then the replay showed how he got the toe back behind the line just in time for the shot.

Sure, there were some bad breaks/lucky bounces (however you want to label it) along with some poor decisions/execution, and a "dash" of panic/unawareness I suppose. Mix it all together, and it was a "bad beat" for the Boilers and Purdue followers. It's a game I would rather forget (but can't), but I hope the players learn from it.....we shall see.
Yep Purdue should have won, but make no mistake there were several unlikely difficult shots that went against teh odds for UALR which is usually what happens in a perceived upset. NO question on the panic either as that always favors the underdog with nothing to lose in the final seconds. I do not think that will be an issue this year, but the first NCAA game...maybe first two usually have a lot of perceived upsets. Only one person on TV I was aware picked UALR as the upset of the tourney before play.
 
Yep Purdue should have won, but make no mistake there were several unlikely difficult shots that went against teh odds for UALR which is usually what happens in a perceived upset. NO question on the panic either as that always favors the underdog with nothing to lose in the final seconds. I do not think that will be an issue this year, but the first NCAA game...maybe first two usually have a lot of perceived upsets. Only one person on TV I was aware picked UALR as the upset of the tourney before play.

It was also the "dreaded" 5/12 match-up, which has produced a boat-load of upsets in the expanded tourney format.
 
Wow....I guess now THIS is taking a "hard look" at the film.

As to the point about the ALR player's toe on the line. I think many of us thought the same thing during the Game Thread.....but then the replay showed how he got the toe back behind the line just in time for the shot.

Sure, there were some bad breaks/lucky bounces (however you want to label it) along with some poor decisions/execution, and a "dash" of panic/unawareness I suppose. Mix it all together, and it was a "bad beat" for the Boilers and Purdue followers. It's a game I would rather forget (but can't), but I hope the players learn from it.....we shall see.
prayer after prayer 3 pointer answered. None of those were high percentage shots. That shot against dakota was more than a foot off the mark. Just garbage luck. only thing i question is why pj was left in the game on defense on that last shot in regulation. wtf coach...put some size in there, you know it has to be a 3.
 
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prayer after prayer 3 pointer answered. None of those were high percentage shots. That shot against dakota was more than a foot off the mark. Just garbage luck. only thing i question is why pj was left in the game on defense on that last shot in regulation. wtf coach...put some size in there, you know it has to be a 3.

Or they can just make sure to foul (enough times) to send a player to the line if they're up by three instead of just letting them shoot a three.
 
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That's the first time I have watched a replay of that game (for obvious reasons) but it was a terrible miss to not count the Sochi shot as a 2. That last regulation 3 pointer was also total garbage and a 10% shot at best.

Edwards did hit those clutch FTs though I forgot about those. Should have put Purdue up 4.

Now I'm mad/disappointed all over again ... damn ....
 
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It was also the "dreaded" 5/12 match-up, which has produced a boat-load of upsets in the expanded tourney format.
yes...and so why is that? There appears to be a bias somewhere in the seeding attempt. Doesn't it make much more sense to see the 8/9 followed by the 7/10 and then the 6/11 in upset frequency?
 
yes...and so why is that? There appears to be a bias somewhere in the seeding attempt. Doesn't it make much more sense to see the 8/9 followed by the 7/10 and then the 6/11 in upset frequency?
It's because the #5 seed is usually a Power 5 school that didn't win their conference or conference tournament. The #12 seed is usually a very good team not in a Power 5 conference. Whether it's truly an "upset" or not can be debated, but not very surprising that many of the #12's have won.

8/9 is just a coin flip so nobody really pays attention to those outcomes. Same thing with 7/10. The 6/11 doesn't usually feature a Power 5 school that has been very highly ranked during the year so the outcome of that game doesn't get as much hype as the 5/12. In addition, since they have gone to the expanded play in, the #11 is often another Power 5 school so it's not seen as much of an upset no matter who wins. JMO
 
It's because the #5 seed is usually a Power 5 school that didn't win their conference or conference tournament. The #12 seed is usually a very good team not in a Power 5 conference. Whether it's truly an "upset" or not can be debated, but not very surprising that many of the #12's have won.

8/9 is just a coin flip so nobody really pays attention to those outcomes. Same thing with 7/10. The 6/11 doesn't usually feature a Power 5 school that has been very highly ranked during the year so the outcome of that game doesn't get as much hype as the 5/12. In addition, since they have gone to the expanded play in, the #11 is often another Power 5 school so it's not seen as much of an upset no matter who wins. JMO


It caannot be debated at all that Arkansas LR beating Purdue was for sure an upset.
 
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It's because the #5 seed is usually a Power 5 school that didn't win their conference or conference tournament. The #12 seed is usually a very good team not in a Power 5 conference. Whether it's truly an "upset" or not can be debated, but not very surprising that many of the #12's have won.

8/9 is just a coin flip so nobody really pays attention to those outcomes. Same thing with 7/10. The 6/11 doesn't usually feature a Power 5 school that has been very highly ranked during the year so the outcome of that game doesn't get as much hype as the 5/12. In addition, since they have gone to the expanded play in, the #11 is often another Power 5 school so it's not seen as much of an upset no matter who wins. JMO
Yez, but the facade is that teams are seeded as much as possible by how good they are. since a 5/12 may have more upsets than a 8/9 it agrees with my original post that so.etching was going on and you provided a plausible reason. going further it suggests more opportunity to seed teams on things other than strength of the team. I think most could see this, but the data tends to support this and you provide one sound reason
 
Yez, but the facade is that teams are seeded as much as possible by how good they are. since a 5/12 may have more upsets than a 8/9 it agrees with my original post that so.etching was going on and you provided a plausible reason. going further it suggests more opportunity to seed teams on things other than strength of the team. I think most could see this, but the data tends to support this and you provide one sound reason
An 8/9 matchup never has an "upset" imo.
 
Purdue always seems to be under-seeded in the tourney, either way we were in a position to to advance in a winnable game, hopefully 2016-2017 produces better results.
Why do you think PU is under seeded so often?
 
Since expanding to 64 (+), # of upsets
11-6 = 46
12-5 = 46
13-4 = 26
14-3 = 21
15-2 = 8

2016 Pre tourney 12-5 predictions and why they happen
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amph...eams-upset-no-5-seeds-in-the-ncaa-tournament/

Purdue painter mention was here
http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...ches-can-indicate-success-in-ncaa-tournament/
I think that 5-12 upsets are so frequent for a couple reasons.

First, the 12 seeds are good enough to earn their seeds as at large bids. Considering that Ohio State did not make the tournament last season, it is fair to conclude that the committee rated the 12 seeds better than OSU last season, which tells me that they are good teams.

Just as important, the seeds sound very different, which puts all the pressure on the 5 seed. What I've always seen in all these 5-12 upsets is that the 12 seed is playing with nothing to lose while the 12 seed is just trying to survive and advance. Clearly, the pressure affected several Purdue players late in that game while Little Rock was just playing loose and relaxed.
 
It caannot be debated at all that Arkansas LR beating Purdue was for sure an upset.
My response was not specific to the PU/ALR game. It was about 5/12 match ups throughout the tournament since 64 team format was implemented.
 
We should have never been a 5 seed in the first place. 4 seed at worst.

Yes, both Purdue and Indiana had some legitimate criticism for the seeding. I can't recall from the discussions, but it wouldn't have surprised me if the Committee had Iowa State/Purdue on the 4/5 line and would have flipped them if Purdue ended winning the BTT...don't think it shook out that way, though.

One thing that IMO hasn't helped the Boilers, especially last year with the seeding, is lack of a really good win on the road;;;;last year it was Pitt and Wisconsin, but I think that was it. Maryland, Indiana, Iowa.....beating any of those away from home would have helped I think.

Regardless, the Boilers let one get away in last year's tourney.
 
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Yes, both Purdue and Indiana had some legitimate criticism for the seeding. I can't recall from the discussions, but it wouldn't have surprised me if the Committee had Iowa State/Purdue on the 4/5 line and would have flipped them if Purdue ended winning the BTT...don't think it shook out that way, though.

One thing that IMO hasn't helped the Boilers, especially last year with the seeding, is lack of a really good win on the road;;;;last year it was Pitt and Wisconsin, but I think that was it. Maryland, Indiana, Iowa.....beating any of those away from home would have helped I think.

Regardless, the Boilers let one get away in last year's tourney.
Good point. I also keep seeing talk about Purdues defense being the problem in the ALR game (I.e. A better close out by Dakota, etc.). Nonsense. In each of the last two years the games were lost on the offensive end in the last four minutes. That Is why this team will be better than last years. This team will be able to score when it has to and I am so anxious to tip it off.
 
An 8/9 matchup never has an "upset" imo.
the whole point of this...of what I said is that observed results are not in line with expected results. Consequently, seeding is not an accurate measure of a team's ability or we would see the upsets go down relative to the 8/9 seed and that more upsets "should" take place in that game than a 5/12. Your statement just basically reaffirms what I said outside empirical evidence..and you are right...it isn't an upset per se because of the error (deliberate or not) of seeding.
 
the whole point of this...of what I said is that observed results are not in line with expected results. Consequently, seeding is not an accurate measure of a team's ability or we would see the upsets go down relative to the 8/9 seed and that more upsets "should" take place in that game than a 5/12. Your statement just basically reaffirms what I said outside empirical evidence..and you are right...it isn't an upset per se because of the error (deliberate or not) of seeding.
I want to add to this a bit. If computer simulations, regression and mathematical models have error as noted by upsets in the 5/12 more than an 8/9 and everyone agrees that there are errors in seeding (whether deliberate for the $ or just errors), how many errors are there in more subjective measures like player star rating. Both Computers and star ranking can pick the elite teams and players, but is there error in player ranking between 50 and 100? When do the star power rankings become more inaccurate? No point in any of this except to amp up the potential for error in player ranking and team ranking past the elite status. :)
 
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the whole point of this...of what I said is that observed results are not in line with expected results. Consequently, seeding is not an accurate measure of a team's ability or we would see the upsets go down relative to the 8/9 seed and that more upsets "should" take place in that game than a 5/12. Your statement just basically reaffirms what I said outside empirical evidence..and you are right...it isn't an upset per se because of the error (deliberate or not) of seeding.
What do you see that is greatly unexpected?
Especially with the 8-9 games

8-9: favorite wins 51%
7-10: 61%
6-11: 63%
5-12: 63%
4-13: 79%
3-14: 83%
2-15: 94%
1-16: 100%
 
What do you see that is greatly unexpected?
Especially with the 8-9 games

8-9: favorite wins 51%
7-10: 61%
6-11: 63%
5-12: 63%
4-13: 79%
3-14: 83%
2-15: 94%
1-16: 100%
This bears out what was said earlier. The 5/12 is the only one that is "off" from what would be expected. I listed the reasons I think that is the case and I'm sure there are others. On the whole, the committee does an accurate job of assigning seeds.

Each year an individual team can argue they should have been a line or two different than assigned, but that is minor in the scope of the tournament as a whole.
 
This bears out what was said earlier. The 5/12 is the only one that is "off" from what would be expected. I listed the reasons I think that is the case and I'm sure there are others. On the whole, the committee does an accurate job of assigning seeds.

Each year an individual team can argue they should have been a line or two different than assigned, but that is minor in the scope of the tournament as a whole.
Right
They are all pretty much as expected (including 8-9) and the 5-12 is the one with a small blip of difference
The article above agreed with reasons listed here and have some good detail as to why the 4/5 has a bit of noticeable cutoff
 
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Right
They are all pretty much as expected (including 8-9) and the 5-12 is the one with a small blip of difference
The article above agreed with reasons listed here and have some good detail as to why the 4/5 has a bit of noticeable cutoff

I had not searched out any historical data over some time frame, but with the data you provided there are three groups. I was going off of gut feel and did think that the lower seeds as close as they were would be even closer to the 8/9 results.

The 1 and 2 seeds are close (first 8 teams). The three and four seeds are close (9-16) and the rest are somewhat together for the first paired game. Once past the elite teams, it is almost like flipping a coin (heads is what 52-54%). Now with players past the top players in the country how do we know that a 45 rated player is better in Purdue's system than a 85 player? Thank you for providing the data that I assume is at least for the 64 team time frame. It did surprise me...some...

What can be said by the data is that the direction is generally in the right direction according to seeds...the probabilities...???? The 5/12, 6/11 and 7/10 are definitely lumped together if unwilling to throw them in with the 8/9. Essentially no distinction between 16th seeded team through 28 rated team in playing the 36 rated team through 48 rated team. Nothing to suggest that 5 playing a 12 differs from playing a 10 as far as results...it could, who knows?
 
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