Oats is a big believer in the analytics. He has talked about it often. Alabama looks for 3's and layups. They will very rarely take a mid-range or long 2. It's just not how they play. I agree with you, run him off the arc and force him to take a 2.
Loyer
- Thread starter Bleedinggoldandblack
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I understand what you’re saying. I guess,I’m more concerned with down the line of the liability Morton poses on the offensive side when he isn’t much of a threat in a single elimination game…where a screwy defense will be thrown at us if he is playing significant defense. He is playing solid in the mins he is getting—isn’t hurting the team. I am letting my Purdue doubting self come out and don’t feel like he gives us the best possible outcome when he is out on the floor and it will be a repeat of FDU/down the stretch of the season last year if he plays more than Myles or Heide. So forgive me. I will try to hold my bias, but as you can see. I sometimes cannot help it 😂
Not sure if you're trying to be clever here or are sincere but Luke Longley provided exactly what those Bulls teams needed.
FDU (and SPU and UNT) understandably causes a lot of post traumatic stress. As an aside, I am petty enough to be pleased that Iona and Tobin Anderson are 5-6 on the year despite a soft schedule.
I agree with your concern around shooting and have posted here that there may be games where Ethan is unplayable because of the opponents defensive approach if he doesn't start hitting open shots. My issue is more with the view that if you're not filling up the box score you're not doing your job and are a liability on offense. This is where MP is, I think rightly, critical of fans and media wanting to apply generalities. In general it is true that a player's points, assists or rebounds are indicative of their value. In specific cases a player can be doing exactly what's asked of him and precisely what a team needs and it only shows up when you're breaking down the film.
You could insert any utility guy at center and they would win. Bill Winnington, Bill Cartwright, Will Purdue, Scott Williams, (a really old) Robert Parrish....
That's exactly the point. It's not hard to have a good +/- when you're playing with the National Player of the year.
Yes. I was at the game and paying close attention to the defense on Sears. TJ also commented in another post. Lance was working his butt off on Sears. Fighting thru screens. Twice, he fought thru two screens and was stopped by the 3rd. Some trips down the floor all 4 other players set a screen for Sears. Lance worked harder than ever and it affected his offense. Good thing Braden was really good on offense. Painter managed Morton's minutes really well (12 is about right). He was the only one besides Lance that could slow down Sears. I don't think there needs to be any more debate on Morton. Against good teams he will see 10-15 minutes and play his role well ( defense, assists, rebounds, steals) and against weaker teams he will get 15-20 minutes.
Agree (I think 🤣 ) so long as those players understand the offense, create the right spacing, set good screens, etc. A guy who doesn't pay attention to details or won't do the dirty work isn't going to work out well.
Agree that the same applies with Zach, particularly when Braden is playing well. If you just do the little things to set them up your offense is going to function at a high level. That's not as common of skill set as one might think at the college level.
If he would just watch an actual team like Purdue, he would seem some good, exciting basketball with a NPOTY AND with 7 kids from the state of Indiana. Guess, he must like watching teams that have 2-3 five star recruits barely beat not so good teams and get blown out when they play an actual opponent.
Yeah, matt said he was, but Sears was so deadly I would take my chances at the rim once he gets in the groove he can make them quick. Especially if Ethan is on him with Ethan's height.
A fast offensive player will almost always have the advantage on a similarly fast defensive player because the offensive player knows which way he is going. The defense must read/react to every fake. Contrary to some posts, Morton does move his feet and does well to stay in front of these quick guards. However, as I said, the offensive player will often come out on top just because he knows where he is going.
Morton's height and reasonable quickness is enough to slow down these hot-shot guards most of the time. He is not going to pull a Raph Davis/Chris Kramer level of shut down with today's rules. That said, many of these teams are built around that hot shooting guard and can be baffled if we can shut off or slow down that one player.
So far our offense has not suffered from having one player not score. See our national stats if you think otherwise. What Morton brings is that single focused defense that slows the opponent's offense down.
I've read a lot of garbage here that attempts to single out one player, over all the rest that "must be benched" based on a narrow view of statistics. IIRC it started with Gillis being benched for TRK, then floated over to Loyer. It now seems to land on Morton. Let's stop. It is pretty much all nonsense.
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Morton's height and reasonable quickness is enough to slow down these hot-shot guards most of the time. He is not going to pull a Raph Davis/Chris Kramer level of shut down with today's rules. That said, many of these teams are built around that hot shooting guard and can be baffled if we can shut off or slow down that one player.
So far our offense has not suffered from having one player not score. See our national stats if you think otherwise. What Morton brings is that single focused defense that slows the opponent's offense down.
I've read a lot of garbage here that attempts to single out one player, over all the rest that "must be benched" based on a narrow view of statistics. IIRC it started with Gillis being benched for TRK, then floated over to Loyer. It now seems to land on Morton. Let's stop. It is pretty much all nonsense.
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You have a point. IU did recruit him pretty hard. He decided to play major college basketball instead.
All the players bring value to the team...even the ones that rarely hit the court. Statistics are a good starting place, but the coach goes with his gut when the game starts but is aware of the numbers. Your point about D today and a few years ago is on point as well...especially the read/react inherent in D. Coaches many times have the D forcing to the sideline, not only to try to keep the ball out of the paint, but when the D knows which way the O has to go, it should get there quicker. Also relative to the read/react disadvantage a defensive player has my mind drifted to Sears and his 3 pt shooting in general and the 3 pt baskets made when Lance had him a minute apart of so. Each of those he moves inward and Lance backs up and then Sears comes off a quick screen receives the ball and scores.A fast offensive player will almost always have the advantage on a similarly fast defensive player because the offensive player knows which way he is going. The defense must read/react to every fake. Contrary to some posts, Morton does move his feet and does well to stay in front of these quick guards. However, as I said, the offensive player will often come out on top just because he knows where he is going.
Morton's height and reasonable quickness is enough to slow down these hot-shot guards most of the time. He is not going to pull a Raph Davis/Chris Kramer level of shut down with today's rules. That said, many of these teams are built around that hot shooting guard and can be baffled if we can shut off or slow down that one player.
So far our offense has not suffered from having one player not score. See our national stats if you think otherwise. What Morton brings is that single focused defense that slows the opponent's offense down.
I've read a lot of garbage here that attempts to single out one player, over all the rest that "must be benched" based on a narrow view of statistics. IIRC it started with Gillis being benched for TRK, then floated over to Loyer. It now seems to land on Morton. Let's stop. It is pretty much all nonsense.
What if Lance didn't care if he cut to the basket quickly (let him get a step) and didn't react immediately, Lance would have been in much better position to play D on the ARC. Was Sears going to hurt Purdue in the Lane amongst the trees...especially if Ethan with some height was a step slower to react? I don't know, but he sure hurt Purdue behind the ARC. I remember Larry Angle talking about his team having trouble with players that looked like they were cutting and then stopped and the D was caught inside...similar situation it seems
have to feel for the compromised that go to a rivals forum and used the moniker "Quaker" unaware how far off base that would be in his or her school and not get the 4 letters right in Zach's name.
Quakers is the Plainfield high school mascot. Maybe he's just from there?
Yeah I agree with what you’re saying. I think the TV pundits made Morton out to be some stopper like Kramer and Davis and he’s not. And I hope he continues to play this role this year like he has and even surprises us on the offensive end by scoring a few too. However, I really haven’t see him slow anyone down this year or last. But I will take your word for it. I’m rooting for the kid and hope he helps us make a deep tourney run, however he is able to—whether it be an important rebound, last second defensive stop or box out.A fast offensive player will almost always have the advantage on a similarly fast defensive player because the offensive player knows which way he is going. The defense must read/react to every fake. Contrary to some posts, Morton does move his feet and does well to stay in front of these quick guards. However, as I said, the offensive player will often come out on top just because he knows where he is going.
Morton's height and reasonable quickness is enough to slow down these hot-shot guards most of the time. He is not going to pull a Raph Davis/Chris Kramer level of shut down with today's rules. That said, many of these teams are built around that hot shooting guard and can be baffled if we can shut off or slow down that one player.
So far our offense has not suffered from having one player not score. See our national stats if you think otherwise. What Morton brings is that single focused defense that slows the opponent's offense down.
I've read a lot of garbage here that attempts to single out one player, over all the rest that "must be benched" based on a narrow view of statistics. IIRC it started with Gillis being benched for TRK, then floated over to Loyer. It now seems to land on Morton. Let's stop. It is pretty much all nonsense.
Remember the rules have changed to improve freedom-of-movement. The kind of defense we saw Kramer and Davis do would draw lots of fouls now. You won't see their like again.
+1 - Kramer was one strong dude. He used it liberally with this defense though he certainly had great feet too.
Could not do now what he was able to do then.
I don't remember Kramer fouling all that much. The Kramer, Moore, Grant combo was very lanky, smart and sneaky athletic. They would smash our current crop of guards. Kramer played pro ball for a long time. Very fast and strong and anticipated the game.
Instead of arguing about why player A or player B should be playing we should be celebrating that we have a bunch of guys now on the bench who were starters that can come in and contribute. Gillis and Morton on in that category. Both guys can play awesome roles depending on game situations and matchups. At the 4 we have a bunch of options. All of then are good in situations.
Kramer was a beast against most of the smaller people he guarded, He was physical as hell and got away with a lot. One of the best boilers every.
You don't recall it because the rules were different then. Kramer would have adjusted and still be very good today but he got away with a lot more then than he would now.
Well Loyer or Jones or both better be "on" come Saturday they need to show up, especially loyer he needs 15 / 5 3's....
There have been boiler teams with 4 or 5 guys that really shouldn't see the court in a tough game.
What a luxury to be able to play every man on your bench if needed and not be praying for a miracle to happen.
Frequently guarded bigger players if they were going off. Remember some memorable matchups with 6'8" kinds of guys.
yup! He was fearless and always had kind of a smirk on his face to further agitate.
That's whats great about this team. There are lots of pieces that Paint can deploy in differing situations.
Thank you for your post. I was out of the country and just watched the game. Based on posts on this site, I expected to see Morton repeatedly beaten by Sears for uncontested layups and threes. I did see that, but not when Morton was in the game. Sears did get Morton on his heels to take a three, but even then, Morton recovered enough with his height to contest somewhat and force more of a fade on a great made shot. I saw Sears drive a couple times on Morton and simply get turned back and pass. At least one time ( maybe two) the pass ended up as a turnover. I saw Sears get by Morton a bit and head to the rim, Morton managed to recover get in front use his height going straight up to contest and force a miss. At game end, Sears got his easiest path all day to the basket on Morton, but again I think Morton’s height bothered him a bit and he flubbed the shot. Overall, Morton had a good day against a guy who was having a career day. He only had to do it for twelve minutes ,so he could really focus, perfect usage.
I can't speak for others but I suspect others share my opinion that heide and Colvin need to be ready to play more minutes based on keady and painters success in March and what consistently gets us beat. I wouldn't trade either coach but we need to be longer and more athletic on the wings. Guys that can attack and beat aggressive defense and can also match up on defense. Loyer isn't strong with the ball and teams will keep setting screens to iso him on defense. It's not an effort thing.I understand the temptation to pick apart the team and examine the components to see if improvements can be made. However, a good team, such as the one we are enjoying, will have different components that do different things (sure, that's obvious). I think using a player's scoring as a primary measure of contribution is deceptive, naïve, and overly simplistic. So far, Painter's substitution and player management has been spot on.
Saturday the PnR worked for Smith and Edey. The next good coach will take that play away. Painter will switch offense and we may well see Loyer as the featured scorer and Smith used as a decoy. Each game is different. different players, and different strategies. So far, none of these opposing coaches have found a real weak spot. NW simply had a great game against a flat Purdue team. Looking forward to seeing them again by the way.
A double edged sword. Heide and Myles need more playing time in the preseason. However to get a good seed, Purdue needs to win their preseason games because the big 10 season isn’t going to generate many quality wins. Beating Arizona could almost guarantee Purdue at least a #2 seed no matter what they do the rest of the season. Beating Arizona and winning the big 10 almost guarantees a #1 seed.
My suggestion , since the big 10 is kind of down this year, use the conference games to give players like Heidi and Myles more minutes!
Several years ago I saw several of the top 10 schools schedule a non conference game against an easy team late in the season as a breather game before their tournament to give their lesser players a chance to play and for their starters to work on certain aspects of their game. Rather than having a long rest, it kept the team sharp.
My suggestion , since the big 10 is kind of down this year, use the conference games to give players like Heidi and Myles more minutes!
Several years ago I saw several of the top 10 schools schedule a non conference game against an easy team late in the season as a breather game before their tournament to give their lesser players a chance to play and for their starters to work on certain aspects of their game. Rather than having a long rest, it kept the team sharp.
Myles and Heide need the experience vs Arizona and that type of game vs that type of team…cuz like you said we aren’t going to see anyone like that until March. This outcome doesn’t mean that much (unless we get pummeled by 30), as we have a really good resume already. If we finish 1 in the B1G, let’s assume we lose 4 more games (depending on vs who, how bad the loss was and when), we’d be a 1. If we finish 2 or 3 in B1G with more than 5 losses, we could still be a 1…but more than likely would be the highest 2 seed or 2nd highest 2 seed (again depends on who the losses are to and when they were and how they occurred).
Fletcher Loyer
How’s Loyer going to do vs AZ? I’m going out on a limb and predicting 15ish points. I am also hopeful that Cam Heide has a really good game and will get decent minutes because of his athleticism and D. Depending on how we’re doing scoring, but does Myles get called on as a spark? Last prediction is Gillis double figures scoring. Boiler Up 🖤💛🏀
How’s Loyer going to do vs AZ? I’m going out on a limb and predicting 15ish points. I am also hopeful that Cam Heide has a really good game and will get decent minutes because of his athleticism and D. Depending on how we’re doing scoring, but does Myles get called on as a spark? Last prediction is Gillis double figures scoring. Boiler Up 🖤💛🏀
Beat Arizona. That's the priority, whatever it takes. If that does not include significant playing time for Heide and Colvin, the B1G will offer plenty of games against good competition in front of big crowds.
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