Loyer
- Thread starter Bleedinggoldandblack
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I agree with one additional comment. It seems to me last year we ran a lot of stuff for Loyer to get him open shots on the wing. We dont seem to be doing that this year.
Yeah good point. I think it’s because we have other ppl who can score more than last year. I think he’ll be leaned upon some games this year and we will his shooting, but it definitely is a different role than last.
I think Coach Paint sees that Smith has the better shot and is running more Iso for him vs a guy that is an inconsistent shooter
Absolutely. They’ve put in more Zach and Smith PnR and so far it’s been pretty damn good for both of em
Some great input from you guys being supportive of Loyers gifts and realistic on his areas needed to improve , love to see the maturity of the posters here.
Agree Morton is fine in some spots. But should not see the floor that much going forward vs good teams. He has produced 5 assists twice and 3 assists once, and his multiple rebound/steals games were against: Iowa, Texas Southern and Samford. He hasn’t scored in a month.
Smith is getting most of his jumpers off the pick and rolls when the defender takes a step toward Zach heading to the hoop. His shooting is taking pressure off Loyer for sure and a must for this team.
Agree on time limits 15 or less minutes, usually less. Btw his 5 assist/3assists are in limited minutes. He helps move the ball, but needs to hit a shot or two,
Those 3 games were his highest minute totals at 26, 18 and 15. Maybe we should play him more then! 😂 😂
Agree that you basically know early if Loyer is gonna be a scoring threat or not. Also agree the key to this team going far in March are Colvin and Heide. Colvin just needs to keep improving his D - guy is a legit scoring threat every time he touches the ball. Like to see him drive the ball more also. Keep getting those two increased minutes, sub out Loyer early on if he’s not making shots, play Morton only sparingly, and continue to rotate TKR, Gillis and Furst based on matchups. I personally would like to see an Edey, Gillis, Heide/Colvin, Jones and Smith lineup more.
Not what I said or related to what I responded to. Loyer was not mentioned in either post. It was an absolute statement that he contributes nothing to the offense.
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Yes for sure on the 2 rookies.
But Loyer is pretty important key for March too. If he doesn't have a good game at least every other game, like he did vs. TN, we prob. don't make FF. Important scoring peice for Purdue.
Hyperbole. I didn't defend anything. For all of the basketball "experts" this board who think they can do a better job than MP at managing his lineup, I'm surprised that people don't understand that assists are an important part of the offense. One poster even tried to belittle Morton's contributions by stating that assists are easier than scoring. (I suppose that is why we see so many players with double-digits in assists, with no turnovers?) That is a person that does not understand or value the skills of a point guard.
Some of you folks are so emotional and egotistical about your opinions that you act as if anyone not wholeheartedly agreeing with you is challenging your core beliefs. And we are talking about a college basketball team.
I understand the temptation to pick apart the team and examine the components to see if improvements can be made. However, a good team, such as the one we are enjoying, will have different components that do different things (sure, that's obvious). I think using a player's scoring as a primary measure of contribution is deceptive, naïve, and overly simplistic. So far, Painter's substitution and player management has been spot on.
Saturday the PnR worked for Smith and Edey. The next good coach will take that play away. Painter will switch offense and we may well see Loyer as the featured scorer and Smith used as a decoy. Each game is different. different players, and different strategies. So far, none of these opposing coaches have found a real weak spot. NW simply had a great game against a flat Purdue team. Looking forward to seeing them again by the way.
Saturday the PnR worked for Smith and Edey. The next good coach will take that play away. Painter will switch offense and we may well see Loyer as the featured scorer and Smith used as a decoy. Each game is different. different players, and different strategies. So far, none of these opposing coaches have found a real weak spot. NW simply had a great game against a flat Purdue team. Looking forward to seeing them again by the way.
Kid is just wrapping up the first third of his second season of college basketball. Not surprising that there are some consistency issues, if he can straighten that out it will go a long way in March.
I'm optimistic that Cam and Myles will continue to improve and increase their roles but Fletch is the guy who seems best positions this season to be a consistent third scoring option after Zach and Braden.
True, but to be fair, assists are easier to come by at times with Edey around. 😎
Tennessee game we called his number and he answered. I wonder if it is dependent on how the defense plays against our various sets. Depending on where the help comes on Edey it leaves someone open and potentially it is Loyer. I think Loyer is in his best when he is looking to drive instead of set shots. Seems to get him into the flow.
Still waiting for a game when Loyer, Smith and Edey all go for 25+. Hopefully it is in March during the tourney.
I could probably get an assist by passing Edey the ball. So what did Morton do on offense beside that?
His assists have come during games that weren’t competitive…he hasn’t done it vs good competition. That’s what we are all arguing about…that Morton is not a guy who should be seeing 10+ min because he can’t keep up with athletic guards or wings for multiple plays and is no threat to score or even pass to someone for an assist. If he is able to do it in future games vs good comp, then I’ll eat crow and enjoy it.
10 minutes or so is about right. He is a good defender because he uses his size to play catchup. Of course he gets beat, he usually guards the best one or two and haters remembers only the poor moments. They don’t remember block shots to save a possible Tennessee tying three and similar moments last year In BTT. As I have said he needs to hit a shot or two to gain confidence he had when he helped win a game last year with a late three against Wisconsin. It’s amazing what confidence or lack of can do to athletes.
Morton doesn't move his feet on defense either. That's why they drive right around him most of the time. I would send him packing. If the team had quicker ball movement, we might find Loyer open so that he can step into his shot. I believe he is a good shooter when he is open. Just one of several coaching inadequacies
I agree with you. Morton should be playing intramural basketball.
Haha I wouldn’t say he should be playin IM bball as he d cook all those dudes, but at this level, we have better options that put the team in a position to win more games at a higher level.
Never said Morton was the answer, but it's about what's preferable when Loyer is struggling. I think a struggling Loyer is a bigger liability than a no-offense Morton is what it boils down to for me. We gotta be realistic how Painter is managing the lineup. I mean if I had it my way, TKR wouldn't play with Edey at all and would only sub for him.
So yes, obviously give me Heide and then Colvin before Morton- I'll take the learning curve, but Painter won't - he always prefers experience, especially with a better defender.
What Painter absolutely cannot do again like we saw Saturday is have Morton and Loyer (especially when he starts bad because is it usually doesn't get any better) on the court together.
Yeah Morton and Loyer should never be on the court together. Loyer, even if not performing well, to me, is still better than Morton because he’s a threat to score. In a single elimination game, when teams aren’t anywhere near as good, they play weird, unconventional defense (FDU). They dared our shooters to shoot and I would dare Morton to shoot alllllll day. I’d be 12 ft off of him and when he’d make 4 or 5 in a row, I’d move six feet closer and dare him to shoot again. I’d live with it, if Morton is able to hit shots…but spoiler alert, he will not haha.
So I think a lot of us are saying the same thing…
Ever think of it this way........
How many assists has Mortan generated for other players by making a basket after receiving a pass? I don't know what the number is but its either 0, 1, or 2!
2!Ever think of it this way........
How many assists has Mortan generated for other players by making a basket after receiving a pass? I don't know what the number is but it’s either 0, 1, or 2!
You should watch the replay of the Alabama game since you clearly didn't get a chance to catch it live. Only played 12 minutes, which is about right, but led the team in +/- (flawed metric, but still) in a game in which I believe Purdue put up 92 points. Not bad for playing with a guy that doesn't contribute anything on offense.
Haha cmon now! I watched the game live and as you stated, not a good metric to use.
Sears was 0 for +- for Bama, edey was 11 and smith 6. But Morton was +17 with 1 assist and no other stat. But I will give it to him that he let sears blow by him to let him score the 2 at the very end and he pulled the chair out and sears missed…guess that may have been the +17 right there 😂
I keep reading about Loyer’s game against Tennessee. He also had some good scoring games last year but seems to be shooting less this year. I really don’t know much about his defense!
I am concerned about our defense that allowed Sears to take that many 3 point shots! Was Sears that much taller than the guy guarding him that he just shot over him? Could our defense not deny him the ball? Was our defense not playing tight enough to allow that many 3 pointers to be fired? I would agree with Edey that dictated Alabama would take more outside shots. It just seemed like they took twenty more 3 pointers than I would expect any team to take against Purdue. This makes me ask, how bad was our perimeter defense?
I also have to wonder if Loyer’s defense is suspect, why is Painter giving him so many minutes, particularly when he isn’t shooting?
I could see down the road where Loyer is no longer starting. But brought in when we need some instant offense . But in order to play that roll, he has to come in and actually shoot the ball.
This takes me back to the Tennessee game. I know before that game there was a lot of criticism about Loyer and if he should be benched. It’s as if Painter drew up a lot of plays for Loyer in that game to quiet the fans and his critics. This makes me ask, could the shots he took could have been taken by someone else like Gillis? Or Jones? Loyer had an outstanding game against Tennessee. Is it possible that outstanding game could have been drawn up for someone else?
I am concerned about our defense that allowed Sears to take that many 3 point shots! Was Sears that much taller than the guy guarding him that he just shot over him? Could our defense not deny him the ball? Was our defense not playing tight enough to allow that many 3 pointers to be fired? I would agree with Edey that dictated Alabama would take more outside shots. It just seemed like they took twenty more 3 pointers than I would expect any team to take against Purdue. This makes me ask, how bad was our perimeter defense?
I also have to wonder if Loyer’s defense is suspect, why is Painter giving him so many minutes, particularly when he isn’t shooting?
I could see down the road where Loyer is no longer starting. But brought in when we need some instant offense . But in order to play that roll, he has to come in and actually shoot the ball.
This takes me back to the Tennessee game. I know before that game there was a lot of criticism about Loyer and if he should be benched. It’s as if Painter drew up a lot of plays for Loyer in that game to quiet the fans and his critics. This makes me ask, could the shots he took could have been taken by someone else like Gillis? Or Jones? Loyer had an outstanding game against Tennessee. Is it possible that outstanding game could have been drawn up for someone else?
Several things to unpack here.
Sears was able to take that many shots for multiple reasons;
- College basketball rules and officiating allow for guys to get open. It's hard to fight thru a screen without being called for a foul yet they regularly let guys like Sears push off to create space.
- Sears is similar to Carsen Edwards in that he doesn't need much room to get his shot off
- Purdue by nature of having a 7'4, 300 pound center is susceptible to teams who screen heavily
- Purdue lacks athleticism at the guard position outside of Jones (who is good) and Colvin (who is still learning how to defend at this level)
- Nate Oats is among the best in the game to generate threes and layups. He abhors anything else offensively. Alabama is 6th nationally in 3P% and 26th in 3PA/FGA. It's what they do.
And yes, Loyer is not a great defender and likely never will be. That said, he's 10 games into his sophomore season so it's not out of the question that he can improve to be at lease serviceable. Ryan Cline did and they are similarly built and started from a simiar point.
As for Loyer's contribution on offense when he's not shooting, he is absolutely a focal point of opposing coaches scouting reports. If you watch off the ball when Smith and Edey are playing their two man game, it is rare that defenders cheat off of Loyer. That creates space for Smith to work and do his magic. If his man cheated off of him the way opposing 4 men do, he'd likely be shooting a lot more and a better percentage (and his 3P% is fine at 36% on 4 attempts per game).
Bama came into the game making 10
3s a game and shooting 26. Which put them in top 10 for both. They were on fire from 3…one guy shot his first all year and made it. They had to shoot those since they weren’t trying to challenge Zach down low. Sears was carsenesque…hitting step backs and also running on screens and faking a screen and comin back to the ball to score.
We have different ways to score this year and don’t need to rely on loyer to be the one to score when Zach isn’t able to. Loyer will be fine, but May sees his mins go to Heide or Colvin as March gets closer.
I didn't say it's not a good metric to use, I said it's a flawed metric, as all metrics are.
I will lead by saying I think you legitimately seem like a smart guy and I generally like your posts. Of course, coming from me, that comes with a 'but'.. If you don't understand that a player can make an offense better with spacing, passing, decision make, etc. that don't reflect in the box score, you really don't understand winning basketball. When Braden and Zach are rolling on offense, as they were for most of the game Saturday, having someone who does those little things to set those guys up is incredibly valuable.
The team put up 92 points, stating that Ethan doesn't add anything to the offense, particularly in games like Saturday, is simply intellectually dishonest or ignorant.
IMO Wol is right to be concerned about the number of open looks that Sears got (and he did get open looks, they weren't all high degree of difficulty shots). Where I think he's wrong and you're right is that I don't necessarily think it was mostly poor individual defense or inability to defend. A lot of it was schematic or poor execution and MP discussed that after the game.
In the first few minutes Sears scored behind the arc against Trey (2), Caleb, Zach (2?), and Ethan early in the game. Later he scored on Lance with two flares to the right side behind the arc. Never was he really a threat inside the arc. They ran a lot of screens for him to shoot behind the arc. I'd almost defend him behind the arc like a 3 was needed to tie you, but a two wouldn't that we sometimes see as games close.
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