Live in Indiana?

[TwinDegrees2]

George W was a liberal? The stuff you are blaming on Liberals in the public schools was a Bush initiative.

Actually, many of the initiatives stem from the Clinton era, but you are right when you say some did stem from the W years. I voted for W and became disappointed in what he did in many instances. While he wasn't Bernie liberal, he was more left leaning in many ways. That said, I'm glad we didn't have Al Gore in office when the towers were attacked.

 

[Heller]

Actually, many of the initiatives stem from the Clinton era, but you are right when you say some did stem from the W years. I voted for W and became disappointed in what he did in many instances. While he wasn't Bernie liberal, he was more left leaning in many ways. That said, I'm glad we didn't have Al Gore in office when the towers were attacked.

Clinton was the one who reformed Welfare. W was the no child guy.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Clinton was the one who reformed Welfare. W was the no child guy.

Clinton "reformed" welfare because Newt "forced" him to the center. Thus, we finally had welfare reform.

Clinton also had education reforms.


Clinton releases education plan
Kathleen Koch/CNN

May 19, 1999
Web posted at: 12:12 p.m. EDT (1612 GMT)

WASHINGTON (May 19) -- Saying the government has to do a "far, far better job" with the $15 billion it sends to schools every year, President Bill Clinton announced he's sending Congress this week his blueprint for how to spend those funds.

"We know fundamentally that if we are going to change the way our schools work, we must change the way we invest federal aid in our schools," the president said Wednesday.

The president's proposal includes accountability measures that would require states and school districts to turn around or close failing schools. The plan also includes annual report cards for parents on how each school, school district and state schools as a whole are performing.

"No child should have to go to a failing school," said Education Secretary Richard Riley.

The plan proposes ending the practice of social promotion, not by holding students back, but by making sure they have the support to meet the higher standards.

Clinton's proposal boosts spending on after-school and summer school programs to $600 million -- triple what Congress approved last fall.

It also calls for subject matter and skills tests for new teachers and works to make schools safer by requiring every school to have a comprehensive school safety plan, use proven anti-drug and anti-violence programs and give parents an annual report on gun, drug and violent incidents in their child's school.

Clinton said the measure will "preserve and enhance the flexibility that states and districts need to run successful schools."

"We know what works. Our schools, our educators have shown us what works," he said. "It is time to put that as a condition of success in the investment of federal aid in every child in America."

Riley said the measure will mean "real accountability for results."

 

[ecouch]

Pence was my congressman then the governor. He is what my parents would have called an empty suit. Indiana is still reeling over his attempt to legislate the Old Testament into law.

No it is not. This is hyperpartisan shit.

Indiana is doing great. An actual hub of tech.

You aren't a republican. We get that, as well as the pastor.

You can't deny the numbers. As much as you and the pastor want to believe it is not, Indiana is doing great for its position in the national economy.

If you and the pastor keep jerking of one another, at this rate, you may break an arm.

 

[z_one]

More infrastructure work was done under Pence in his short time in office than was done under Mitch in his terms. Check the budgets.

As for teachers, they are not entering the field because of Pence, but because of all the liberal legislation such as no discipline, special needs kids in regular classrooms, asinine federally mandated testing, and the federal government sticking their nose in what should be a state responsibility. As for our public schools falling apart and the "rise" in charter schools...see my post about no discipline and the rest which has led to a desire for competition. While I support our local schools 100% and while I love the really good and dedicated teachers, competition is needed and good. Take the liberal legislation out of the equation, make it state mandated and put it back in local's hands, put discipline back in the classroom (and the home), allow the bad teacher to be fired, and all schools will get better.

Your post proves that you're of the leftist/Bernie/Hillary bent, and with that you're going to trash any conservative. Pence simply believes as many of us do that the LGBT community, nor any other doesn't need special laws just for them. We don't need more government, we need less.

Mike would have won by a much larger margin the second time.

You don't know squat. I don't fit any label. I've voted repub much more than demo over the years. You've been a Knight apologist for years, you look the other way at the excesses of those you support. You obviously know nothing about education and what is currently happening. Your post proves that. Our public schools are falling apart while we do this stupid experiment of for profit schools. Pence did virtually nothing on infrastructure. My businesses use it every day. I know exactly what was done under Pence. Nothing. Our roads have been falling apart and we had to pass additional local taxes because moneys from the state have dried up. We almost lost the NCAA offices and other businesses because of Pence's stupidity. The LGBT community deserves the same protections under the law of anyone else. Not more and not less. Obviously, you and Pence are on the same wave length and believe it's ok for someone to be fired because they are gay. That's what Indiana state law allows. I happen not to agree with that stance and the majority of Americans and Hoosiers agree with me, NOT you OR Pence. I will not trash ANY conservative, only unreasonable and stupid ones like you and Pence. I will do the same to stupid liberals. BTW, Trump IS NOT a conservative. To think he is, is to be delusional.

 

[z_one]

No it is not. This is hyperpartisan shit.

Indiana is doing great. An actual hub of tech.

You aren't a republican. We get that, as well as the pastor.

You can't deny the numbers. As much as you and the pastor want to believe it is not, Indiana is doing great for its position in the national economy.

If you and the pastor keep jerking of one another, at this rate, you may break an arm.

I'm glad to hear that Indiana is doing well in tech. Unfortunately, our infrastructure and schools are falling apart. Holcomb has addressed one issue, infrastructure. It is long overdue. In our area the answer for not having money for fixing roads has been to turn them from asphalt back to dirt! I kid you not! That's progress? Education he has ignored. In the next 5 years, the current experiment in education will show what a failure it has been. I only hope that we can salvage something from the ashes that will be left.

 

[Indy_Rider]

Infrastructure fell apart under his leadership and our public schools are failing in part because of his ridiculous charter school program that is bankrupting our school system. New teachers entering the workforce was down over 60% as the system was trashing their financial support.

There is no bigger joke than the entire teacher shortage thing. There is no actual teacher shortage, I know a lot of people with teaching degrees that aren't teaching. The shortage is based on the fact the expect X number of applicants per opening, in your good school districts, they are exceeding that number because people want to teach there, in your not so good school districts, people would rather not teach at all than work there, so you don't see as many applications. That's the entire misconception about it and it's not surprising as few want to work in a shitty work environment where success is nearly impossible to achieve. As idealistic as teachers can be (there's a lot of them in my family) they are not complete idiots all the time.

And it's not charter schools that are killing the schools system, part of it is open enrollment now so you are not forced to go to the school where you live, you can freely go to in a school in another district now if they want to open their enrollment. Also you have areas where you have decreasing population, but the school system in those areas want to maintain the status quo at all cost, when they should be consolidating and reducing staff count to match the enrollments, they keep trying to put that off as long as they can until they are bankrupt and then cry that it's everyone else's fault they failed to adapt to their new reality.

Talking to people who work and teach in other states, they like charter schools in general, their main beef with them is that they often don't have to meet the same educational standards as the standard schools, so it is far easier for them to make it look like they are doing well than they really are.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

More infrastructure work was done under Pence in his short time in office than was done under Mitch in his terms. Check the budgets.

As for teachers, they are not entering the field because of Pence, but because of all the liberal legislation such as no discipline, special needs kids in regular classrooms, asinine federally mandated testing, and the federal government sticking their nose in what should be a state responsibility. As for our public schools falling apart and the "rise" in charter schools...see my post about no discipline and the rest which has led to a desire for competition. While I support our local schools 100% and while I love the really good and dedicated teachers, competition is needed and good. Take the liberal legislation out of the equation, make it state mandated and put it back in local's hands, put discipline back in the classroom (and the home), allow the bad teacher to be fired, and all schools will get better.

Your post proves that you're of the leftist/Bernie/Hillary bent, and with that you're going to trash any conservative. Pence simply believes as many of us do that the LGBT community, nor any other doesn't need special laws just for them. We don't need more government, we need less.

Mike would have won by a much larger margin the second time.

The Special Education laws you mention, "Inclusion" or "Least Restrictive Environment" and "IDEA" legislation dates back to 1989 and 2004. That was signed by George H.W. Bush and his son George W. Bush. The worst of these, "No Child Left Behind" was George W. Bush. So that is not "liberal" legislation.

The only national federally mandated test is NAEP testing which was part of "No Child Left Behind" from 2002. Again, George W. Bush. The state of Indiana requires ISTEP testing. Most testing is required by the state, not the federal government.

With charter schools, where is the competition? And with "school choice" that is so great, if you live in Carmel and pay Carmel taxes, how do you feel about someone from the IPS coming in and not paying those taxes because they have the "choice" to do so?

With putting discipline back in the home, how do we do that? Can't force parents to parent. In low income schools there is little to no parent involvement. Heck even in affluent schools you have parents who want to be their kid's friends. That has been the shift; 20 years ago if the teacher called or sent a note home, you were in trouble. Today, in many cases, parents ask their kids their side. Of course a kid will lie, then the parent goes on the offensive against the school. In low income areas you have one of two situations. Usually I would say in personal experience, 75% single parent households. In many of those mom has to work or mom goes out partying leaving the oldest child, often 11-15 years old to take care of the rest.

To go off on another tangent, the argument "These people should not have children!" Well OK then provide contraception services... oh wait.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

There is no bigger joke than the entire teacher shortage thing. There is no actual teacher shortage, I know a lot of people with teaching degrees that aren't teaching. The shortage is based on the fact the expect X number of applicants per opening, in your good school districts, they are exceeding that number because people want to teach there, in your not so good school districts, people would rather not teach at all than work there, so you don't see as many applications. That's the entire misconception about it and it's not surprising as few want to work in a shitty work environment where success is nearly impossible to achieve. As idealistic as teachers can be (there's a lot of them in my family) they are not complete idiots all the time.

And it's not charter schools that are killing the schools system, part of it is open enrollment now so you are not forced to go to the school where you live, you can freely go to in a school in another district now if they want to open their enrollment. Also you have areas where you have decreasing population, but the school system in those areas want to maintain the status quo at all cost, when they should be consolidating and reducing staff count to match the enrollments, they keep trying to put that off as long as they can until they are bankrupt and then cry that it's everyone else's fault they failed to adapt to their new reality.

Talking to people who work and teach in other states, they like charter schools in general, their main beef with them is that they often don't have to meet the same educational standards as the standard schools, so it is far easier for them to make it look like they are doing well than they really are.

There is definitely a shortage in the "STEM" (math/science) areas. For some jobs we might get only 2-3 applicants. Elementary, English, Social Studies, Physical Education, not as much yet. We do get less applicants and the local colleges are seeing a drop off in enrollment; there will be a shortage. As a whole, looking at the Indiana DOE there are a lot more jobs open than the last few years. I think retirements play a roll, I imagine state population is growing as a whole. We would not see the wide scale shortages until 3-4 years, but I think there will be a demand.

 

[BoilerJS]

With charter schools, where is the competition? And with "school choice" that is so great, if you live in Carmel and pay Carmel taxes, how do you feel about someone from the IPS coming in and not paying those taxes because they have the "choice" to do so?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point I never thought of it that way. The State does kick in around $8000.00 though per student so that off sets this some.
It is up to the parent or child to get to the school though. I'd think they would live fairly close to the school.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

You don't know squat. I don't fit any label. I've voted repub much more than demo over the years. You've been a Knight apologist for years, you look the other way at the excesses of those you support. You obviously know nothing about education and what is currently happening. Your post proves that. Our public schools are falling apart while we do this stupid experiment of for profit schools. Pence did virtually nothing on infrastructure. My businesses use it every day. I know exactly what was done under Pence. Nothing. Our roads have been falling apart and we had to pass additional local taxes because moneys from the state have dried up. We almost lost the NCAA offices and other businesses because of Pence's stupidity. The LGBT community deserves the same protections under the law of anyone else. Not more and not less. Obviously, you and Pence are on the same wave length and believe it's ok for someone to be fired because they are gay. That's what Indiana state law allows. I happen not to agree with that stance and the majority of Americans and Hoosiers agree with me, NOT you OR Pence. I will not trash ANY conservative, only unreasonable and stupid ones like you and Pence. I will do the same to stupid liberals. BTW, Trump IS NOT a conservative. To think he is, is to be delusional.

Wow....I finally found Mr./Mrs. Know It All. Here we go...

1. Knight has nothing to do with this discussion so you can go back to your IU hole from which you came. I also know Bob, as I do Pence, and I know all of the good Knight has done for Riley (he's still doing it), for education, and yes...I know his bad traits as well. Knight's players graduated, for the most part were solid citizens and remain so today....just like Gene Keady's kids. Two great coaches and teachers.

2. Education...my late wife was a 2nd grade teacher until her death...31 years. My father in law was as well until his. Both were devoted to their craft and both were revered educators loved by their piers and staff as witnessed by the more than 1000 people at my wife's viewing. I've been involved in the public and private schools as a head coach, so yes I do know a lot more than you about it as many of my friends are still educators and coaches, and my son is a school board member. The schools are falling apart because the best and brightest no longer are choosing a profession where the Federal government dictates along with namby-pamby parents who want to believe their child deserves special treatment without any consequences for bad behavior. The schools are falling apart because administrators make three times what the teacher makes. They're falling apart....oh, wait...let's talk about those public schools that are doing a great job, and let's talk about all of those great teachers who stay late, or go in early to make their classroom better. You don't want to do that...you simply want to bitch about conservatives. But I can personally introduce you to so many of them that care and do that great job.

3. As for your business "use "it" everyday, I have no idea if you drive a semi, a taxi cab, or a tow truck but I'm on the road most days and I know for a fact that Indiana's highways improved a bunch under Pence, and his strategy is being continued today by Holcomb.

4. As someone who has actually hired and fired, I believe one thing...you do your job the right way, you contribute to the company by doing the job the right way and you remain employed. If you don't, you get fired and I could care less what you do behind closed doors if it doesn't involve children or pets. If you whine, bitch, cry about your situation and create issues that reflect in your performance or job....you're gone. I really could care less.

5. As for the NCAA, I could give two shit's less about that organization because they do very little good and have become a mouthpiece for liberal political viewpoints. It changed with Myles Brand at the head of it, and it's become worse every year since.

6.It's evident that you've never read what Pence was doing or talking about and have only read the Indy Star's muckraking. I'd advise you go back and do just that and then come back with knowledge of what you're trying to speak of.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

The Special Education laws you mention, "Inclusion" or "Least Restrictive Environment" and "IDEA" legislation dates back to 1989 and 2004. That was signed by George H.W. Bush and his son George W. Bush. The worst of these, "No Child Left Behind" was George W. Bush. So that is not "liberal" legislation.

The only national federally mandated test is NAEP testing which was part of "No Child Left Behind" from 2002. Again, George W. Bush. The state of Indiana requires ISTEP testing. Most testing is required by the state, not the federal government.

With charter schools, where is the competition? And with "school choice" that is so great, if you live in Carmel and pay Carmel taxes, how do you feel about someone from the IPS coming in and not paying those taxes because they have the "choice" to do so?

With putting discipline back in the home, how do we do that? Can't force parents to parent. In low income schools there is little to no parent involvement. Heck even in affluent schools you have parents who want to be their kid's friends. That has been the shift; 20 years ago if the teacher called or sent a note home, you were in trouble. Today, in many cases, parents ask their kids their side. Of course a kid will lie, then the parent goes on the offensive against the school. In low income areas you have one of two situations. Usually I would say in personal experience, 75% single parent households. In many of those mom has to work or mom goes out partying leaving the oldest child, often 11-15 years old to take care of the rest.

To go off on another tangent, the argument "These people should not have children!" Well OK then provide contraception services... oh wait.

Nice post.

W really was much more of a liberal than a conservative in many ways, what you speak of being one. Was the idea good? Parts of it were....now it may not look so. ISTEP is an absolute joke...a dismal failure, and has teachers teaching to the test.

My former HS, was consolidated many years ago, and recently was returned to the Township. They, because of a dedicated staff applied for and became a Charter School, and by all reports are doing a fantastic job. Had that not happened, those elementary kids would be boarding a bus at 6:30 in the morning and returning home after 5:00 in some cases. I believe in local education...charter or public. The teachers in that school stayed with the Charter because they could now teach kids the way they need to be taught. Scores are up an discipline is a part of the daily routine because those same parents signed an agreement that allows it in their school.

After all, it should be about the kids. Shouldn't it?

 

[z_one]

I've read plenty about Pence and I'm sure I've hired and fired more people than you have. Your wife taught for over 30 years? I'm glad for what she did. Of course she wasn't subjected to the current "clusterf..." that we have in education today or you would think differently about it. It's obvious that you haven't kept up with what is going on or you wouldn't be so clueless. The Knight comment has to do with being an enabler of bad behavior.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

Wow....I finally found Mr./Mrs. Know It All. Here we go...

1. Knight has nothing to do with this discussion so you can go back to your IU hole from which you came. I also know Bob, as I do Pence, and I know all of the good Knight has done for Riley (he's still doing it), for education, and yes...I know his bad traits as well. Knight's players graduated, for the most part were solid citizens and remain so today....just like Gene Keady's kids. Two great coaches and teachers.

2. Education...my late wife was a 2nd grade teacher until her death...31 years. My father in law was as well until his. Both were devoted to their craft and both were revered educators loved by their piers and staff as witnessed by the more than 1000 people at my wife's viewing. I've been involved in the public and private schools as a head coach, so yes I do know a lot more than you about it as many of my friends are still educators and coaches, and my son is a school board member. The schools are falling apart because the best and brightest no longer are choosing a profession where the Federal government dictates along with namby-pamby parents who want to believe their child deserves special treatment without any consequences for bad behavior. The schools are falling apart because administrators make three times what the teacher makes. They're falling apart....oh, wait...let's talk about those public schools that are doing a great job, and let's talk about all of those great teachers who stay late, or go in early to make their classroom better. You don't want to do that...you simply want to bitch about conservatives. But I can personally introduce you to so many of them that care and do that great job.

3. As for your business "use "it" everyday, I have no idea if you drive a semi, a taxi cab, or a tow truck but I'm on the road most days and I know for a fact that Indiana's highways improved a bunch under Pence, and his strategy is being continued today by Holcomb.

1. You know Bob Knight and Mike Pence... I am happy for you.

2. Loved by their "peers" unless they were loved by where they kept their boat. Seriously though, how does the Federal government dictate? There are federal laws, but the state level has a much greater influence on education. The Federal government has in the past and does today provide additional resources based on poverty levels, but for the vast majority, especially in Indiana, the Federal government has never dictated curriculum or done anything along those lines. I am just confused.

3. Roads under Pence: He put a bunch of money into it after he got his pants pulled down with the closing of one of the major North/South Interstates in in Indiana. Do you remember the I-65 closure? Holy cow, what a disaster. 1,900 structurally deficient bridges? Have you driven on the Indiana Toll Road? It is like driving on the moon. It was completely reactionary what he did. Before that it was brag about surplus, surplus, surplus. Then we cannot drive North to South in the state. Not like the 3rd largest city in the US would need to access that road to get to and from Indianapolis.

 

[BoilerJS]

Daniels and Pence have spent money on road improvements both at the state and county levels. Pathways grants for counties of 50-50 and now 80-20 matching funds for county road improvements.
Water and wastewater infrastructure systems are in dire need of improvement. Holcomb has allowed some srf money for this use. (go to IDEM site)

For road and bridge funding.
http://www.in.gov/indot/files/Local_Road_and_Bridge_Funding_Summary.pdf

USDA Rural Development, under Obama, did cut a lot of the water and wastewater funding for such projects. We shall see if Trump puts some of this funding back in place.

As an engineer, who follows this stuff pretty closely, Daniels and Pence/Holcomb have addressed the roads and bridges in Indiana.

 

[Heller]

No it is not. This is hyperpartisan shit.

Indiana is doing great. An actual hub of tech.

You aren't a republican. We get that, as well as the pastor.

You can't deny the numbers. As much as you and the pastor want to believe it is not, Indiana is doing great for its position in the national economy.

If you and the pastor keep jerking of one another, at this rate, you may break an arm.

I actually am a Republican. I'm not a right wing John Birch, lets legislate The Old Testament, jack off Republican.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

Nice post.

W really was much more of a liberal than a conservative in many ways, what you speak of being one. Was the idea good? Parts of it were....now it may not look so. ISTEP is an absolute joke...a dismal failure, and has teachers teaching to the test.

My former HS, was consolidated many years ago, and recently was returned to the Township. They, because of a dedicated staff applied for and became a Charter School, and by all reports are doing a fantastic job. Had that not happened, those elementary kids would be boarding a bus at 6:30 in the morning and returning home after 5:00 in some cases. I believe in local education...charter or public. The teachers in that school stayed with the Charter because they could now teach kids the way they need to be taught. Scores are up an discipline is a part of the daily routine because those same parents signed an agreement that allows it in their school.

After all, it should be about the kids. Shouldn't it?

Just curious what school became a Charter?

 

[z_one]

There is no bigger joke than the entire teacher shortage thing. There is no actual teacher shortage, I know a lot of people with teaching degrees that aren't teaching. The shortage is based on the fact the expect X number of applicants per opening, in your good school districts, they are exceeding that number because people want to teach there, in your not so good school districts, people would rather not teach at all than work there, so you don't see as many applications. That's the entire misconception about it and it's not surprising as few want to work in a shitty work environment where success is nearly impossible to achieve. As idealistic as teachers can be (there's a lot of them in my family) they are not complete idiots all the time.

And it's not charter schools that are killing the schools system, part of it is open enrollment now so you are not forced to go to the school where you live, you can freely go to in a school in another district now if they want to open their enrollment. Also you have areas where you have decreasing population, but the school system in those areas want to maintain the status quo at all cost, when they should be consolidating and reducing staff count to match the enrollments, they keep trying to put that off as long as they can until they are bankrupt and then cry that it's everyone else's fault they failed to adapt to their new reality.

Talking to people who work and teach in other states, they like charter schools in general, their main beef with them is that they often don't have to meet the same educational standards as the standard schools, so it is far easier for them to make it look like they are doing well than they really are.

Teachers have been leaving in droves because of the screwed up system we have. We have a local school corp that has lost a whole graduating class to "choice" in the last 3 years. Now they are planning on closing 3 schools because they can't afford to keep them open. Another local school pushed through a referendum to get more funding because state funding has been restricted so that more money can be spent on charters. This current system is breaking our public schools. Maybe that is the intent.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Just curious what school became a Charter?

It resides in Rush County.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Teachers have been leaving in droves because of the screwed up system we have. We have a local school corp that has lost a whole graduating class to "choice" in the last 3 years. Now they are planning on closing 3 schools because they can't afford to keep them open. Another local school pushed through a referendum to get more funding because state funding has been restricted so that more money can be spent on charters. Marion is close to being taken over by the state. This current system is breaking our public schools. Maybe that is the intent.

Actually it's not Marion you're talking about. It's Muncie.

While Marion needs help, it's no where as derelict as the Muncie School Corp.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

It resides in Rush County.

Out of curiosity, Mays Academy had 39% pass both English and Math ISTEP in 2016. Rush County Schools were at 54%.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

Teachers have been leaving in droves because of the screwed up system we have. We have a local school corp that has lost a whole graduating class to "choice" in the last 3 years. Now they are planning on closing 3 schools because they can't afford to keep them open. Another local school pushed through a referendum to get more funding because state funding has been restricted so that more money can be spent on charters. Marion is close to being taken over by the state. This current system is breaking our public schools. Maybe that is the intent.

Well the Indiana Virtual Academy gets $6,000+ per kid.

 

[stout1]

Out of curiosity, Mays Academy had 39% pass both English and Math ISTEP in 2016. Rush County Schools were at 54%.

Also, Mays had a drop from 80.9% to 39.3% when you compare 2015 to 2016.

By class at Mays
2015 3rd grade - 100%, 2016 4th grade - 50%

2015 4th grade - 92%, 2016 5th grade - 41.7%

2015 5th grade - 77.8%, 2016 6th grade - 27.8%

Had that not happened, those elementary kids would be boarding a bus at 6:30 in the morning and returning home after 5:00

Not true. Rush County Schools has a transportation plan in place for kids in the county that means getting on the bus no earlier than 7ish on normal days. Now the charter school does offer limited transportation that does cause long bus rides.

The teachers in that school stayed with the Charter

Again, not true. There were no certified teachers that taught at Mays Elementary School during the 2014-15 school year that returned to teach in 2015-16. Some retired, some transferred to other schools within the Rush County Schools others went to other school corporations.

The teachers they did hire were Rush County instructional assistants that got emergency licenses, a teacher from the local catholic school that had been fired by Rush County Schools, a Rush County Schools bus driver and a teacher was fired from a neighboring school corporation. Their principal was a retired choir teacher, but he quit after 6 weeks and the school was run by a local accountant and the school secretary.

My former HS, was consolidated many years ago, and recently was returned to the Township. They, because of a dedicated staff applied for and became a Charter School,

Again, not true. Not one person on the certified staff had anything to do with the creation of the charter school. In fact to a person, the certified staff recommended against pursuing the charter. Edited to add for full disclosure: There were a few non-certified staff (a secretary and a couple IAs) that helped but that was self-preservation as mush as anything. Working at Mays was their last chance to stay with the school district (they had been issues at other schools) and they knew their jobs were gone when Mays closed.

They became a charter school because a politically connected local (who was trying to find a spot for his daughter to work) used his influence with Jean Leising to con Ball State in to approving a charter. The charter school office at Ball State recommended denial until Senator Leising had a visit with the BSU president. The charter school review panel at Ball State said that their application was one of the worst they had ever seen.

Since there is talk about school funding and money in this thread I will also add that Mays Charter is currently ~$500,000 (after one year of operation) in the hole between loans not repaid and overspending.

 

[Heller]

Actually it's not Marion you're talking about. It's Muncie.

While Marion needs help, it's no where as derelict as the Muncie School Corp.

Muncie has been taken over by the State but many schools in contiguous counties aren't much better off.

 

[z_one]

Wow....I finally found Mr./Mrs. Know It All. Here we go...

1. Knight has nothing to do with this discussion so you can go back to your IU hole from which you came. I also know Bob, as I do Pence, and I know all of the good Knight has done for Riley (he's still doing it), for education, and yes...I know his bad traits as well. Knight's players graduated, for the most part were solid citizens and remain so today....just like Gene Keady's kids. Two great coaches and teachers.

2. Education...my late wife was a 2nd grade teacher until her death...31 years. My father in law was as well until his. Both were devoted to their craft and both were revered educators loved by their piers and staff as witnessed by the more than 1000 people at my wife's viewing. I've been involved in the public and private schools as a head coach, so yes I do know a lot more than you about it as many of my friends are still educators and coaches, and my son is a school board member. The schools are falling apart because the best and brightest no longer are choosing a profession where the Federal government dictates along with namby-pamby parents who want to believe their child deserves special treatment without any consequences for bad behavior. The schools are falling apart because administrators make three times what the teacher makes. They're falling apart....oh, wait...let's talk about those public schools that are doing a great job, and let's talk about all of those great teachers who stay late, or go in early to make their classroom better. You don't want to do that...you simply want to bitch about conservatives. But I can personally introduce you to so many of them that care and do that great job.

3. As for your business "use "it" everyday, I have no idea if you drive a semi, a taxi cab, or a tow truck but I'm on the road most days and I know for a fact that Indiana's highways improved a bunch under Pence, and his strategy is being continued today by Holcomb.

4. As someone who has actually hired and fired, I believe one thing...you do your job the right way, you contribute to the company by doing the job the right way and you remain employed. If you don't, you get fired and I could care less what you do behind closed doors if it doesn't involve children or pets. If you whine, bitch, cry about your situation and create issues that reflect in your performance or job....you're gone. I really could care less.

5. As for the NCAA, I could give two shit's less about that organization because they do very little good and have become a mouthpiece for liberal political viewpoints. It changed with Myles Brand at the head of it, and it's become worse every year since.

6.It's evident that you've never read what Pence was doing or talking about and have only read the Indy Star's muckraking. I'd advise you go back and do just that and then come back with knowledge of what you're trying to speak of.

1. Your Knight apology tour show's you to be an enabler of bad behavior.

2. Yes, you think you know more than everyone, that is your problem, you don't. You can't talk to an educator anywhere in the state right now in public schools that won't tell you the current system is not a problem. Most are starved for funds unless they have a very good tax base. BTW, your wife must have been a saint. Even though you and I are in the middle of a pissing match, doesn't mean I can't recognize when someone has benefited our state and though she isn't here any longer, I appreciate what she did for her students. Fortunately for her, she was never subjected to the crazy mess we have in this state today.

3. My businesses use our infrastructure daily, you really don't know what you are talking about in this regard(big surprise). Our roads and bridges are a mess. Holcomb just signed a major bill on infrastructure attempting to play catch up for the neglect. If you drive a car you can't seriously say that you haven't seen the problems developing on our roads and bridges. Maybe your limo driver doesn't mention it? LOL Our local county government just passed a "wheel" tax so that they could make up for the gap that the state cut. We have roads that they took from asphalt back to dirt because they couldn't afford to maintain them! That's progress! And I live in one of the most conservative areas of the state. Pence was terrible on infrastructure. It was an area he neglected terribly. He was more worried about what someone did in their home or their bathroom instead of taking care of business.

4. I bitch equally about liberals and conservatives. Mine is an equal opportunity bitch. I personally don't like any politician. They all lie. Including Pence and especially Trump. Don't like it? Tough.

5. The NCAA was just indicative of what many businesses were going to do as Pence pushed for limiting people's rights with his stupid religious freedom bill. Were you asleep while all the protests were going on? Same thing has been happening in North Carolina. Leave people alone. You can't legislate morality.
You think Pence is great? You're too close to the problem. You can't see the forest for the trees. He sucked as a governor. Maybe he'll be a better VP.

 

[Heller]

1. Your Knight apology tour show's you to be an enabler of bad behavior.

2. Yes, you think you know more than everyone, that is your problem, you don't. You can't talk to an educator anywhere in the state right now in public schools that won't tell you the current system is not a problem. Most are starved for funds unless they have a very good tax base. BTW, your wife must have been a saint. Even though you and I are in the middle of a pissing match, doesn't mean I can't recognize when someone has benefited our state and though she isn't here any longer, I appreciate what she did for her students. Fortunately for her, she was never subjected to the crazy mess we have in this state today.

3. My businesses use our infrastructure daily, you really don't know what you are talking about in this regard(big surprise). Our roads and bridges are a mess. Holcomb just signed a major bill on infrastructure attempting to play catch up for the neglect. If you drive a car you can't seriously say that you haven't seen the problems developing on our roads and bridges. Maybe your limo driver doesn't mention it? LOL Our local county government just passed a "wheel" tax so that they could make up for the gap that the state cut. We have roads that they took from asphalt back to dirt because they couldn't afford to maintain them! That's progress! And I live in one of the most conservative areas of the state. Pence was terrible on infrastructure. It was an area he neglected terribly. He was more worried about what someone did in their home or their bathroom instead of taking care of business.

4. I bitch equally about liberals and conservatives. Mine is an equal opportunity bitch. I personally don't like any politician. They all lie. Including Pence and especially Trump. Don't like it? Tough.

5. The NCAA was just indicative of what many businesses were going to do as Pence pushed for limiting people's rights with his stupid religious freedom bill. Were you asleep while all the protests were going on? Same thing has been happening in North Carolina. Leave people alone. You can't legislate morality.
You think Pence is great? You're too close to the problem. You can't see the forest for the trees. He sucked as a governor. Maybe he'll be a better VP.

Number 4 is spot on. They all lie. You left out that they also want to enrich their friends, all of them.

 

[z_one]

Actually it's not Marion you're talking about. It's Muncie.

While Marion needs help, it's no where as derelict as the Muncie School Corp.

You are correct, I meant Muncie. Thank you.

 

[z_one]

Daniels and Pence have spent money on road improvements both at the state and county levels. Pathways grants for counties of 50-50 and now 80-20 matching funds for county road improvements.
Water and wastewater infrastructure systems are in dire need of improvement. Holcomb has allowed some srf money for this use. (go to IDEM site)

For road and bridge funding.
http://www.in.gov/indot/files/Local_Road_and_Bridge_Funding_Summary.pdf

USDA Rural Development, under Obama, did cut a lot of the water and wastewater funding for such projects. We shall see if Trump puts some of this funding back in place.

As an engineer, who follows this stuff pretty closely, Daniels and Pence/Holcomb have addressed the roads and bridges in Indiana.

Where have they addressed the roads? I69? Addressed the roads my ass. Finally we have with the bill Holcomb just signed. Prior to that? Give me a break!

 

[Bethboilerfan]

One point that has not been mentioned with regard to charter schools: Public schools have to take everyone while charter schools do not. Obviously if you can pick and choose your students you have a totally different situation than if you can't. One other point: Many on both sides of the aisle agree that the new Secretary of Education is not qualified to do the job. She herself, essentially said she got the job for the money she gave to Trump's campaign.

 

[z_one]

One point that has not been mentioned with regard to charter schools: Public schools have to take everyone while charter schools do not. Obviously if you can pick and choose your students you have a totally different situation than if you can't. One other point: Many on both sides of the aisle agree that the new Secretary of Education is not qualified to do the job. She herself, essentially said she got the job for the money she gave to Trump's campaign.

Good points all. The Secretary of Education position has been turned into a political appointment instead of an elected position. Pence fought with the previous secretary at every turn and placed our school system in peril. He didn't like the choice the PEOPLE of Indiana made for Secretary, so he made her life a living hell. As a result between his small minded attitude toward education and his need to help his buddies out, we have expanded the FOR PROFIT system to a level that is unsustainable.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

Good points all. The Secretary of Education position has been turned into a political appointment instead of an elected position. Pence fought with the previous secretary at every turn and placed our school system in peril. He didn't like the choice the PEOPLE of Indiana made for Secretary, so he made her life a living hell. As a result between his small minded attitude toward education and his need to help his buddies out, we have expanded the FOR PROFIT system to a level that is unsustainable.

She is referring to Trump's cabinet pick Betsy DeVos who never did anything in education and is Secretary of Education.

With Indiana I liked having an elected Superintendent of Education, but with the world be hyperpartisan, nothing got done for four years. The appointment makes sense, I don't like it, but if you have a rival party it doesn't bring new ideas or offer compromise, it just brings gridlock.

 

[z_one]

She is referring to Trump's cabinet pick Betsy DeVos who never did anything in education and is Secretary of Education.

With Indiana I liked having an elected Superintendent of Education, but with the world be hyperpartisan, nothing got done for four years. The appointment makes sense, I don't like it, but if you have a rival party it doesn't bring new ideas or offer compromise, it just brings gridlock.

Oops. Well I would agree with her assessment of Mrs. DeVos as well. I understand that it CAN bring gridlock. Funny that since 1816(not sure when it was enacted) until the Pence regime it seemed to work fine. Pence wanted to have a choke hold on education and that is how he got it done.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

Oops. Well I would agree with her assessment of Mrs. DeVos as well. I understand that it CAN bring gridlock. Funny that since 1816(not sure when it was enacted) until the Pence regime it seemed to work fine. Pence wanted to have a choke hold on education and that is how he got it done.

I am not sure if opposite parties ever happened, although I imagine or would guess it did with O'Bannon (D) and his Superintendent of Education in a Republican state.

 

[stout1]

I am not sure if opposite parties ever happened, although I imagine or would guess it did with O'Bannon (D) and his Superintendent of Education in a Republican state.

Opposite party happened under:
Bayh, O'Bannon, Kernan (D Gov, R Supt)
Whitcomb (R Gov, D Supt)
Branigan (D Gov, R Supt)
Handley (R Gov, D SUpt)
Schricker (D Gov, R Supt)

And that gets through the 1940's and I don't feel like looking back farther.

The Pence/Ritz thing had a component of personalities as much as parties. They just antagonized the ever-loving crap out of each other.

 

[Indy_Rider]

One point that has not been mentioned with regard to charter schools: Public schools have to take everyone while charter schools do not. Obviously if you can pick and choose your students you have a totally different situation than if you can't.

I absolutely hate that argument, because I always hear from the teachers in my family the biggest issue they have is lack of parents support with the kids that do bad. So those of us that are involved should have a choice as by moving are kids away from the ones who's parents don't care, greatly helps our kids succeed. I choose where I live because of the school system, but if I lived in area where it was an issue, I'd absolutely being going the private school route because I want my kids to succeed and not be drug down because of parents that don't care.

You can't on one had complain about teacher's not having a choice of the kids they teach and then on the other say they want parents involved, because parents being involved means doing what they can to help facilitate their child's success.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

Opposite party happened under:
Bayh, O'Bannon, Kernan (D Gov, R Supt)
Whitcomb (R Gov, D Supt)
Branigan (D Gov, R Supt)
Handley (R Gov, D SUpt)
Schricker (D Gov, R Supt)

And that gets through the 1940's and I don't feel like looking back farther.

The Pence/Ritz thing had a component of personalities as much as parties. They just antagonized the ever-loving crap out of each other.

I had NO idea. I just remember Daniels/Bennett and assumed it would have been the norm. Thanks for clarification!

I liked O'Bannon and am curious how he would have handled finishing out his time. Joe Kernan was an empty suit.

 

[stout1]

I absolutely hate that argument, because I always hear from the teachers in my family the biggest issue they have is lack of parents support with the kids that do bad. So those of us that are involved should have a choice as by moving are kids away from the ones who's parents don't care, greatly helps our kids succeed. I choose where I live because of the school system, but if I lived in area where it was an issue, I'd absolutely being going the private school route because I want my kids to succeed and not be drug down because of parents that don't care.

You can't on one had complain about teacher's not having a choice of the kids they teach and then on the other say they want parents involved, because parents being involved means doing what they can to help facilitate their child's success.

There is no issue with parent choice. I think that parents should be involved in their children's education and that they should make the educational decisions best suited to their situation.

However, when a group, (in this case charter school operators) is claiming to offer a choice that is a public school, wants public school dollars and purports to produce better results, it is only proper to have them operate on an even playing field. That means:

1. provide all of the mandated services,
2. follow the same standards,
3. submit to the same accountability requirements, and
4. accept all public school students.

Private schools are different until they too accept public dollars. If a private school wants taxpayer money, there has to be some accountability and rules.

 

[BoilerJS]

Where have they addressed the roads? I69? Addressed the roads my ass. Finally we have with the bill Holcomb just signed. Prior to that? Give me a break!

How about the 31 corridor? I worked on that one. US 421 Worked on this one too, SR 641, Us 50.
Here is a link to some other INDOT stuff.
http://www.in.gov/indot/3062.htm
Having worked in engineering for 35 + years the road projects under Daniels and Pence were pretty good.
Sewer and Water not so much.

 

[TC4THREE]

Steady conservative that went the opposite direction of Mitch on the social spectrum. Mitch didn't care about the social and focused on the fiscal. Pence was too heavy handed on the social. Overall, milquetoast conservative. A complete medium Coke.

This just about mirrors my opinion of him. I'm not sorry to see him go just because I think Holcomb will do a better job as his replacement. If Gregg had been elected it would be another story though.

 

[z_one]

How about the 31 corridor? I worked on that one. US 421 Worked on this one too, SR 641, Us 50.
Here is a link to some other INDOT stuff.
http://www.in.gov/indot/3062.htm
Having worked in engineering for 35 + years the road projects under Daniels and Pence were pretty good.
Sewer and Water not so much.

Well thanks for working on them, but the roads overall are terrible. Our company has had extensive road damage causing thousands of dollars per year. Many of our bridges have gone way beyond their useful life. 31 is decent. 65 had to have a rerouting because of a bridge collapse,69, 469, 70, are in sad shape. They are finally working on the bridge on 65 that crosses the Ohio into Louisville. That was one of the 20 worst bridges in the entire country.