last nights game...

[todd brewster]

You don't want Haas out on the high pick trying to swat a guard. That's going to lead to cheap early fouls. Have our defender go over top of the screen with Haas hedging but then getting back in the paint.

Haas' man sets a pick. Haas picks him up and stops him from driving. While the opp is dribbling, our player picks him up and Haas drops down to pick up his man. We did this the first half last year and Biggie did a good job picking up the roll and then going back to his man. When Smotherman transferred Matt became worried about playing Hass and Biggie together for foul reasons. Michigan then beat up twice by doing the pick and pop and Biggie and Haas were worried about popping out to defend and picking up cheap fouls. BTW, this led to a stream of posts saying Haas and Biggie were not good defenders.

What I am saying is similar. A good pick is almost impossible for a defender to fight through without fouling. We went over the top and got there too late. With more playing time, Haas we learn that shooters square up for the 3 a certain way. If Haas sees that he needs to go charging towards the right shoulder (or left if left hand shooter). Just one blocked shot or hurried air ball is enough. If the shooter anticipates Haas coming out and passes. Then we can afford for Haas to do that, because we still have a rim protector and someone to control the boards. This is not a knock against Vince. Vince is a great player, but he blocks shots and rebounds like a SF. We need that, but once Haas one serious intimidation, then Vince style will be even more effective when he plays the 4.

I am also saying we do not have to worry about Haas picking up fouls, because we have more depth this year. I really wished Matt would have played Haas with 2 fouls, so he learns how to play more controlled in that situation. Because Haas played so well, we controlled the boards, but we do need Haas to be more aggressive. He should not be taken out in the first half just because of 2 fouls and not out of the 3rd Q with 3. He is smart and will learn how to adjust his game.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

A) If you read my post then you would realize it had nothing to with Eifert's play. It had everything to do with next year.

B) You are comparing Grady Eifert to an NFL DPOY and MVP candidate. Ignorant.

If Wheeler isnt good enough as a freshman to get minutes over a walk-on, what makes you think he will be good enough next year to replace VE?

Because at this time, Wheeler is behind these players:
1. Vince
2. Haarms/Taylor if CMP can go to a large lineup with Haas
3. A four guard lineup featuring a smaller 5 such as Haarms/Taylor
4. Eifert
5. A JUCO Ewing who likely is equal right now to Wheeler
6. Aaron Wheeler

So again, tell me where Wheeler's minutes would come from. Would you rather play Wheeler and burn a chance at the development and weight gain he needs to be successful for the future for what would amount to possibly a maximum of 3 to 4 minutes per game?

It isn't that Wheeler isn't talented and able to contribute...it's the fact that as a freshman, his athleticism can only take him so far and the experience and knowledge that Grady has may trump that or give an equal amount of on court success. In that case, you would RS every single time.

 

[Boilersss]

Because at this time, Wheeler is behind these players:
1. Vince
2. Haarms/Taylor if CMP can go to a large lineup with Haas
3. A four guard lineup featuring a smaller 5 such as Haarms/Taylor
4. Eifert
5. A JUCO Ewing who likely is equal right now to Wheeler
6. Aaron Wheeler

So again, tell me where Wheeler's minutes would come from. Would you rather play Wheeler and burn a chance at the development and weight gain he needs to be successful for the future for what would amount to possibly a maximum of 3 to 4 minutes per game?

It isn't that Wheeler isn't talented and able to contribute...it's the fact that as a freshman, his athleticism can only take him so far and the experience and knowledge that Grady has may trump that or give an equal amount of on court success. In that case, you would RS every single time.

I don't want Wheeler to transfer next year. He will have the opportunity to transfer and play immediately with a redshirt year this year.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

I don't want Wheeler to transfer next year. He will have the opportunity to transfer and play immediately with a redshirt year this year.

CMP has said he will only RS a player after sitting down and speaking to the player and the player's family. Wheeler wouldn't even be considering a RS if he and his family weren't on board. My guess is that CMP has explained to Wheeler that not RS'ing this season likely wastes a year of development and his ability to potentially make marked gains mainly in the weight room and on his jump shot due to limiting those in season. Players on RS are on a totally different strength and conditioning program than those who are in season because you don't have to worry about games. My guess is that the incredible growth we saw from Haarms from last year to this year is going to be some what similar to what we will potentially see in Wheeler as well. Not to mention the added accessibility coaches have during the summer with players will help Wheeler as well. I believe he probably ends up grabbing a starting spot next season:

Edwards
Eastern
Cline
Wheeler
Haarms

 

[Boilersss]

CMP has said he will only RS a player after sitting down and speaking to the player and the player's family. Wheeler wouldn't even be considering a RS if he and his family weren't on board. My guess is that CMP has explained to Wheeler that not RS'ing this season likely wastes a year of development and his ability to potentially make marked gains mainly in the weight room and on his jump shot due to limiting those in season. Players on RS are on a totally different strength and conditioning program than those who are in season because you don't have to worry about games. My guess is that the incredible growth we saw from Haarms from last year to this year is going to be some what similar to what we will potentially see in Wheeler as well. Not to mention the added accessibility coaches have during the summer with players will help Wheeler as well. I believe he probably ends up grabbing a starting spot next season:

Edwards
Eastern
Cline
Wheeler
Haarms

That all sounds good, but the guys that are still "in front" of him this year will be there next year as well. Ewing, Eifert, and JT.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

That all sounds good, but the guys that are still "in front" of him this year will be there next year as well. Ewing, Eifert, and JT.

Hence the need for a RS year....

 

[Gold&Black]

As much as I love JT Wheeler will pass all three with a year in the weight room and practicing with this team.

 

[tjreese]

These are all dumb.

Haarms weighs 250lbs. He does not need to weigh 275. He would be slow and ineffective.

Eifert game us good minutes and was good on D. The only other option is Ewing and he is a liability everywhere.

Perimeter D was actually good, they hit like 5 circus 3s with defenders draped on them.

ya know...whether it was Little Rock or another ..when the guards got hot like they were the whole game for Marquette Pudue would have loss in the past, but in spite of the MANY contested shots they took..most went in. Rowsley and Howard were impressive in the game... Their offenise was nice as well as there was a lot of movement and screening. They had Purdue hurrying too much the first half...

 

[Do Dah Day]

I don't want Wheeler to transfer next year. He will have the opportunity to transfer and play immediately with a redshirt year this year.

I'm curious - how do you speculate wheeler would feel if he gave up this year to "play" and finished the year playing a total total of 66 Minutes. And yes, I know he'd have to sit out if he transfers after playing

 

[mathboy]

The issue we are discussing is who backups Vince, right? My take is that Ewing will be the backup for Vince by the middle of the season. This whole deal with Eifert is because he understands the offense and defense better. Ewing's athleticism will eventually win out once he learns Painter's system, if he learns Painter's system. Wheeler's time will come next year when he and Ewing share the 4-spot.

Taylor may also get more minutes as he gets into shape. For some reason, I don't associate Taylor with being an impact player. I hope he becomes one.

 

[olafmetal]

That all sounds good, but the guys that are still "in front" of him this year will be there next year as well. Ewing, Eifert, and JT.

I think Wheeler might be able to compete with Cline for the 3 spot also. It will depend on how he develops. If he has major gains in strength, mass, and rebounding he should easily be able to beat out Eifert and I've yet to see JT play the 4. Ewing and TW could end up being tougher competition there though. Wheeler does have decent ball handling and shooting skills though, if he works hard on that part of the game and learns the offense and defense he could make a push to start at the three and be a massive mismatch.

 

[*4purdue*]

You couldn't couldn't watch the game or just look at the boxscore and draw those conclusions. Too many turnovers?

You must not have watched. We had 8 the first half. 11 is a little high for us total. The 3 in the second half was an improvement.

 

[Dakota Girl]

Chevy’s got to be conflicted by this: he’s been a big Grady proponent from the jump, and now he’s finally getting serious run... BUT he’s getting them at the expense of his boy JT...

True. Life’s hard on a team. Not enough minutes.

 

[*4purdue*]

Not agreeing/disagreeing with the OP, you just misread my post, that's all. Obviously it wasn't clear. I was trying to show the conclusions the OP was drawing, followed by my thoughts in parentheses. E.g. the OP was looking at the box score, seeing 24 minutes for Eifert and thinking that's too many, while I'm saying not only do you need to look beyond the 24 minutes and the (not too shabby) 8/4/2, but there were also many other things that didn't/don't show up in the box score. But I wasn't clear on my first point about TOs and it all went to crap from there.

First off, I did watch the game. Marquette is not a great team.... Very young. Eifert had a good stat line, but who do you want to see get experience for when we need it... Eastern, JT, or Eifert? Our future is the scholarship players, not the walkons. 8 turnovers in a half is way to many for a senior team, especially when they are playing a team not up to their level. The second half was much better and any road win is a good one..

 

[Dakota Girl]

I agree but at that point, Vince, Isaac, Dakota and Haarms all had 2 fouls. Painter was trying to get to halftime.

Yes. I noted that as it was happening in the game thread so we are in total agreement. I just meant that the combination demonstrates that they need to sprinkled in, not poured in. I agreed with what Matt tried to do. If we had maintained the 10 pt lead as well staying out of foul trouble it would have been brilliant!

 

[BoilerAndy]

That all sounds good, but the guys that are still "in front" of him this year will be there next year as well. Ewing, Eifert, and JT.

Are you assuming that everyone will improve at the same pace? With his athleticism, if Wheeler gains strength and learns Painter's system, he absolutely will not remain the last option.

 

[BoilerAndy]

11 is a little high for us total.

You are talking about turnovers. What is your basis for this?

 

[Dakota Girl]

A) If you read my post then you would realize it had nothing to with Eifert's play. It had everything to do with next year.

B) You are comparing Grady Eifert to an NFL DPOY and MVP candidate. Ignorant.

If Wheeler isnt good enough as a freshman to get minutes over a walk-on, what makes you think he will be good enough next year to replace VE?

Some appear to be thinking Grady will playing 20 minutes every game. He won’t. Wheeler would probably take his time later in the year but the redshirt isn’t about a deficiency, but rather an opportunity to let him learn, get stronger, and then play four really strong years with a lot of PT in each.

 

[IndySouthsider]

I didn't expose anything? I have said for a long time that Painter needs to recruit better. It is very possible that Wheeler gets pissed that he isn't playing this year and a walk-on (who isn't great) is.

This is pure nonsense.

 

[*4purdue*]

You are talking about turnovers. What is your basis for this?

8 in the first 1/2 is way to many.

 

[FirstDownB]

Eifert had a good stat line, but who do you want to see get experience for when we need it... Eastern, JT, or Eifert? Our future is the scholarship players, not the walkons.

Since you watched the game, you know it went back and forth between a 2-10 point lead for the majority of the game. On the road against a team that can catch fire and score in bunches from 3. That is not a situation where a coach is just looking to get guys experience.

 

[BoilerAndy]

8 in the first 1/2 is way to many.

And 3 in the 2nd half is excellent. Glass half full or half empty?

11 for the game is good. Purdue is known for taking care of the basketball. Only 3 times in Painter's tenure has Purdue averaged less that 11/game, including 2011-12 when they led the nation.