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last nights game...

1) I was 100% wrong on Haarms. Kid is going to be a stud. Needs about 25 more lbs.

2) I don't understand CMP's man crush with Eifert. Way 2 many minutes for a walk on. We have studs, play them or it puts us at a disadvantage on offense. I know VE was in foul trouble, but we can go small & be good. 5 min. a game at the most for GE

3) Perimeter D needs to improve & turnovers need to go down.

This has the potential to be a top 10 team.
Regarding 2: if you go bigger at the 4 it's Haarms. If you go small at the four I think you bring in Eastern. I thought Eifert played damn good ball though so not sure I would do differently than Painter did. If you really watch Eifert you see that he knows what is goin to happen and where to be. He does make a mistake here and there but less than most.
 
Eifert is playing because he understands where he needs to be on every play

I was going to post exactly this same point. Eifert got those minutes last night because he's doing precisely what Painter wants him to do: get to the right spots on offense, move the ball around without turnovers (zero last night), rebound (4 last night, one less than our starting center), and play hard on defense.

How many bad shots did Eifert take the entire game? Zero. How many times did Eifert lose his man on defense? Maybe once, in 24 minutes? How many times did Eifert make himself available for a easy dump-in when they tried to double-team our bigs? At least five times, leading to 2-2 shooting (layups), drawing multiple fouls, and going 4-5 in free throws.

The kid is playing well, and deserves to be recognized for it.
 
I was really impressed with Eifert last night. First time we've really seen him play extended minutes with other starters and he looked like he belonged. Never going to take over a game but when he's playing with other good players he can be valuable as we saw last night. Play good defense, rebound, keep the offense moving, etc.
This is a good point to expand upon..."when he's playing with other good players he can be valuable as we saw last night."
This is the key. When Matt had Taylor, Eifert, and Eastern played together at the end of the half things crumbled. At this point in time all three need to be mixed in with three or four of our top players, then they can contribute nicely.
 
It disappoints me that the Scholies haven't beat out a walk-on.
Apples and oranges I know, but Barry Alverez says that walk-ons for the Badger football team are expected and part of their philosophy. Wisky has had a lot of good ones since Barry arrived in Madison.

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I'm sure there are basketball examples of this too.

Also, Grady certainly has the pedigree and could just be a late bloomer under Painter and his staff's tutelage.
 
I can see both sides for the eifert fence. But ultimately, Matt will not play a more talented player because he is more talented. He needs to trust the player to execute the offensive and defensive principles he employs.
 
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I was really impressed with Eifert last night. First time we've really seen him play extended minutes with other starters and he looked like he belonged. Never going to take over a game but when he's playing with other good players he can be valuable as we saw last night. Play good defense, rebound, keep the offense moving, etc.
I think Grady is the unfortunate victim of some preconceived opinions based on his "walk on" status. If you remove that prejudice from your evaluation and just use your eyes, you will see a very capable and dependable basketball player. I was at the game last night and one of the Marquette fans turned around and asked me who 24 was. He said, "he's always around the ball." Naysayers better get used to him because I'm convinced Painter trusts him. And I do too.
 
These are all dumb.

Haarms weighs 250lbs. He does not need to weigh 275. He would be slow and ineffective.

Eifert game us good minutes and was good on D. The only other option is Ewing and he is a liability everywhere.

Perimeter D was actually good, they hit like 5 circus 3s with defenders draped on them.


Agree with all that you said, but Haarms doesn't weigh 250 yet, will someday and would be a great weight for him. Heard an interview with him about a week ago and he stated that he weighed 240.
 
This is a good point to expand upon..."when he's playing with other good players he can be valuable as we saw last night."
This is the key. When Matt had Taylor, Eifert, and Eastern played together at the end of the half things crumbled. At this point in time all three need to be mixed in with three or four of our top players, then they can contribute nicely.
Chevy’s got to be conflicted by this: he’s been a big Grady proponent from the jump, and now he’s finally getting serious run... BUT he’s getting them at the expense of his boy JT...
 
Chevy’s got to be conflicted by this: he’s been a big Grady proponent from the jump, and now he’s finally getting serious run... BUT he’s getting them at the expense of his boy JT...
Cake.. Or eat it... Damn adult decisions
 
This is a good point to expand upon..."when he's playing with other good players he can be valuable as we saw last night."
This is the key. When Matt had Taylor, Eifert, and Eastern played together at the end of the half things crumbled. At this point in time all three need to be mixed in with three or four of our top players, then they can contribute nicely.
I agree but at that point, Vince, Isaac, Dakota and Haarms all had 2 fouls. Painter was trying to get to halftime.
 
I have to agree with the OP. When you have Eastern, Taylor and Ewing on the bench and you decide to play a walk-on, it disappoints me that guys you’ve given scholies to aren’t getting those minutes.

Were you also disappointed when former walk-ons like Scottie Pippen and Ben Wallace took valuable minutes at the NBA championship games ahead of blue-chip scholarship player Jud Buechler and top draft pick Darko Milicic?
 
Were you also disappointed when former walk-ons like Scottie Pippen and Ben Wallace took valuable minutes at the NBA championship games ahead of blue-chip scholarship player Jud Buechler and top draft pick Darko Milicic?
Breathtakingly beautiful response! Nicely done.
 
Are you suggesting that Eifert lose his spot on the team?

Again, these comments have to be made by someone who didn't watch the game or even look at the boxscore.

Yes, I watched most of the game and the entire 2nd half. GE played really well, not denying that. But, he's a walk-on for a reason.
 
Why? what is wrong with a walk-on devoting years of his life to getting better and after those years, being better than first-year players. Why is it bad to have a great walk-on that will, absolutely will, win a game or two for us this year. Why is that bad?

I'm not sure GE is going to win a game for us this year. I suspect his minutes will start to diminish as JT gets in shape and Ewing figures out what Painter wants. We'll certainly need more athleticism on the floor as the comp heats up.
 
Again I think the answer is simple. There are 200 minutes in a game. Isaac, Haarm/Taylor, Vince, Mathias and Carson need to be playing 30 minutes each. PJ/Cline/Easterly 50. The solution is Haarms/Taylor need to play 20 minutes at the 4.

The argument against is best described by Marquette. They have outstanding 3 pt shooters. We had players draped over them and they made them. Imagine having players 6 inches taller out there on them. Their counter is simple. Have them drive. Did you read their coach's quote? He said they tried establishing the drive in the beginning, but Haas put that theory to rest. He was 100% right. Every time their shooters got the pick, Haas was their to cut off any drive. My only knock on Haas was twice Rousey used the pick to launch 3's from about 5 feet beyond the arc. Haas wisely stopped the penetration and kept position for rebounding, but I would have loved to see him jump out and swat the ball away, but he couldn't because he had to stop the drive. If Haarms/Taylor were in there, then no worry.

Again, Eifert was invaluable against Marquette and if there is foul trouble or injury, we know he can step in and do the job.
 
Agree with all that you said, but Haarms doesn't weigh 250 yet, will someday and would be a great weight for him. Heard an interview with him about a week ago and he stated that he weighed 240.

Not sure what the fascination is with Haarms putting on weight. Does he need to continue to build strength? Of course, every player does. But if putting on extra weight at the expense of quickness or agility isn't a good trade. He doesn't need to be a bruiser like Rowinski or Scheffler. Haarms won't be a traditional 5 like Haas, they're 2 different players who both happen to be really tall.
Don't try to fit a round peg into a square hole.
 
Again I think the answer is simple. There are 200 minutes in a game. Isaac, Haarm/Taylor, Vince, Mathias and Carson need to be playing 30 minutes each. PJ/Cline/Easterly 50. The solution is Haarms/Taylor need to play 20 minutes at the 4.

The argument against is best described by Marquette. They have outstanding 3 pt shooters. We had players draped over them and they made them. Imagine having players 6 inches taller out there on them. Their counter is simple. Have them drive. Did you read their coach's quote? He said they tried establishing the drive in the beginning, but Haas put that theory to rest. He was 100% right. Every time their shooters got the pick, Haas was their to cut off any drive. My only knock on Haas was twice Rousey used the pick to launch 3's from about 5 feet beyond the arc. Haas wisely stopped the penetration and kept position for rebounding, but I would have loved to see him jump out and swat the ball away, but he couldn't because he had to stop the drive. If Haarms/Taylor were in there, then no worry.

Again, Eifert was invaluable against Marquette and if there is foul trouble or injury, we know he can step in and do the job.

You don't want Haas out on the high pick trying to swat a guard. That's going to lead to cheap early fouls. Have our defender go over top of the screen with Haas hedging but then getting back in the paint.
 
So 11 turnovers in a game is too many? When we had 70+ possessions?

Eifert was a pleasant surprise least night, got himself open under the basket and drew a number of fouls. 24 minutes is too many for him to average but if he can play like he did last night it won't really hurt us as much. When it's Haas and 3 shooters Eifert doesn't hurt the offense much, especially if he can make an open jumper.

We had a hand in the face of almost every shot last night and our perimeter D needs improved? We can always get better but I was thoroughly impressed with the defense last night. Rousey and Howard took a number of shots that weren't good shots, they just went in.

And I know we haven't played a team that can bully anyone on the block but there are about 10 total post players in NCAA basketball that do play like that, Haarms is skinny but I don't think he NEEDS 25 more pounds. Who is he going to need more than 245 or 250 against?

It is interesting that we watched the same game and I disagree with all 3 of your takaways. Not saying you're wrong or I'm right, it's just interesting we can view things so differently.
Eifert plays smart and is not a liability on Defense....Not flashy but good on D and makes other players look good.....Just like his Daddy!!
 
Not sure what the fascination is with Haarms putting on weight. Does he need to continue to build strength? Of course, every player does. But if putting on extra weight at the expense of quickness or agility isn't a good trade. He doesn't need to be a bruiser like Rowinski or Scheffler. Haarms won't be a traditional 5 like Haas, they're 2 different players who both happen to be really tall.
Don't try to fit a round peg into a square hole.
Haarms is playing his role right now and is showing a ton of upside.....Just wait til the years to come when his game experience has grown and he is featured on the offensive end!!!!!!!
 
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If I'm reading correctly, I don't think anyone thinks Eifert played bad in the game. I think posters are more concerned that guys we thought would be great recruits, and instant impact players (Wheeler, Ewing, and Eastern) haven't progressed enough to see the court. I believe it's more of a "where does this leave us for the future?" type thing. We are losing a ton of talent next year.
 
This is a good point to expand upon..."when he's playing with other good players he can be valuable as we saw last night."
This is the key. When Matt had Taylor, Eifert, and Eastern played together at the end of the half things crumbled. At this point in time all three need to be mixed in with three or four of our top players, then they can contribute nicely.
Good point here that I think needs stressed to more people who may not understand the more intricate side of the game.
 
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If I'm reading correctly, I don't think anyone thinks Eifert played bad in the game. I think posters are more concerned that guys we thought would be great recruits, and instant impact players (Wheeler, Ewing, and Eastern) haven't progressed enough to see the court. I believe it's more of a "where does this leave us for the future?" type thing. We are losing a ton of talent next year.
So for those posters, remember that JJ Watt was a walk-on at Whisky for football. Is it terrible to take a flyer on a kid who you know has a good pedigree, works hard, and contributes to the culture of the program to see where he could be in 3 or 4 years? Hell no...that's what good programs are built on. I am sure there are walkons at Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, and other big programs that would easily play D1 ball BUT enjoy being at the program they are at. Eifert could easily have played in the MAC, Missouri Valley, etc....he chose to be a Boiler and be a walk-on because of his family history and love of Purdue Basketball and relationship with Coach Painter.

If you ever questioned CMP's recruiting ability, think to talking a kid like Eifert in to being a walk-on at Purdue rather than getting a full ride at a lower D1 school.
 
If I'm reading correctly, I don't think anyone thinks Eifert played bad in the game. I think posters are more concerned that guys we thought would be great recruits, and instant impact players (Wheeler, Ewing, and Eastern) haven't progressed enough to see the court. I believe it's more of a "where does this leave us for the future?" type thing. We are losing a ton of talent next year.
But that's the problem. A good recruit (not sure if anyone called Wheeler or Ewing or even Eastern great) is not necessarily the same as instant impact. Bigs in particular take time to develop. Remember JJ's freshman year? Calasan, a less talented junior, was playing ahead of him. I think JJ turned out ok.

The people worried about this somehow translating to next year are the ones forgetting the fact that the biggest jump occurs between freshman and sophomore years.

Eifert gives us the luxury of getting more prime years out of Wheeler instead of wasting a year of eligibility for 5 mpg as a freshman.

The real shocker here is that Painter is able to pull all of this off. Not only does it require depth and an over-performing walk-on, but you have quality D1 recruits who are willing to sit and develop a year. That is rare.
 
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OP may of not watched the game but I have watched all three an you guys are dead wrong about eifert. Maybe he has shown something in practice but he has been bad in all three games.

Myths about Eifert:

He is a good defender. I don't know why people think this. He makes a lot of mistakes on defense. Purdues perimeter D was good last night but he made several mistakes on switches that lead to open threes for marquette. It also not like he provides any rim proctection from the 4 spot. He got taken advantage of in both of the earlier games he just is not that fundementally sound of a defender despite the narrative.

He is good on offense. When Eiffert is in the game teams just flat out do not respect him. All of his points are on layups where his man just leaves him alone. He has no real offensive game to speak of he can't shoot drive or post up.

Pretty much his only talent is his bball IQ and his rebounding. People keep on acting like he is a solid player when he is not. While he might not be a liability in any one area (I would argue his defense is but whatever) lack of production from a player is a liability because it makes it easier on the other team.
 
So for those posters, remember that JJ Watt was a walk-on at Whisky for football. Is it terrible to take a flyer on a kid who you know has a good pedigree, works hard, and contributes to the culture of the program to see where he could be in 3 or 4 years? Hell no...that's what good programs are built on. I am sure there are walkons at Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, and other big programs that would easily play D1 ball BUT enjoy being at the program they are at. Eifert could easily have played in the MAC, Missouri Valley, etc....he chose to be a Boiler and be a walk-on because of his family history and love of Purdue Basketball and relationship with Coach Painter.

If you ever questioned CMP's recruiting ability, think to talking a kid like Eifert in to being a walk-on at Purdue rather than getting a full ride at a lower D1 school.
A) If you read my post then you would realize it had nothing to with Eifert's play. It had everything to do with next year.

B) You are comparing Grady Eifert to an NFL DPOY and MVP candidate. Ignorant.

If Wheeler isnt good enough as a freshman to get minutes over a walk-on, what makes you think he will be good enough next year to replace VE?
 
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But that's the problem. A good recruit (not sure if anyone called Wheeler or Ewing or even Eastern great) is not necessarily the same as instant impact. Bigs in particular take time to develop. Remember JJ's freshman year? Calasan, a less talented junior, was playing ahead of him. I think JJ turned out ok.

The people worried about this somehow translating to next year are the ones forgetting the fact that the biggest jump occurs between freshman and sophomore years.

Eifert gives us the luxury of getting more prime years out of Wheeler instead of wasting a year of eligibility for 5 mpg as a freshman.

The real shocker here is that Painter is able to pull all of this off. Not only does it require depth and an over-performing walk-on, but you have quality D1 recruits who are willing to sit and develop a year. That is rare.
LOL, many people on here have speculated that Wheeler and Eastern will be 1st team all big ten by their senior year. One poster even called Wheeler a "more skilled Troy Wlliams".

As for JJ, he played 17 min/gm as a freshman... Wheeler literally isn't going to see the floor. Ewing will only see the floor in mop up minutes.

Also, who says Wheeler wants to redshirt? What if he sits this year, and transfers next year because CMP played a walk-on (who isn't much more effective) over him? If Wheeler does in fact not play in a game this year, then he can transfer and play immediately elsewhere.
 
A) If you read my post then you would realize it had nothing to with Eifert's play. It had everything to so with next year.

B) You are comparing Grady Eifert to an NFL DPOY and MVP candidate. Ignorant.

If Wheeler isnt good enough as a freshman to get minutes over a walk-on, what makes you think he will be good enough next year to replace VE?
You are assuming Wheeler isn't playing because he isn't "good enough".
Maybe he's every bit as good as Eifert but, as he is blocked by VE, he would be wasting a year of eligibility for 5 mpg. And if you're Painter, in those 5 mpg you're looking for a player you trust isn't going to give the game away while you rest VE for a couple minutes. Maybe Wheeler is better but also brings more volatility. No not maybe. That's a near certainty.

Would you prefer if Taylor was playing Eifert's minutes instead? Because if Grady isn't getting it done (which he is), there is your scholarship player who will be stepping in to get those precious few backup minutes at the 4.
 
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LOL, many people on here have speculated that Wheeler and Eastern will be 1st team all big ten by their senior year. One poster even called Wheeler a "more skilled Troy Wlliams".

As for JJ, he played 17 min/gm as a freshman... Wheeler literally isn't going to see the floor. Ewing will only see the floor in mop up minutes.

Also, who says Wheeler wants to redshirt? What if he sits this year, and transfers next year because CMP played a walk-on (who isn't much more effective) over him? If Wheeler does in fact not play in a game this year, then he can transfer and play immediately elsewhere.
Wow, you just showed your hand and what you think of the coaching staff. If you really think they are going to red shirt a player against his will.. a player they just recruited and have big plans for the future. If they really want to piss him off, then play him sparingly and burn a year of eligibility.

PS- The point about JJ went over your head. He played 17 mpg as a freshman because there was no AJ or Haas or Biggie on the team. There was Calasan. And yet, JJ was behind him in the pecking order for most of the season and much less effective than he was later in his career. MUCH LESS effective. That is the whole point. You can't judge most players by their freshman year.
 
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Wow, you just showed your hand and what you think of the coaching staff. If you really think they are going to red shirt a player against his will.. a player they just recruited and have big plans for the future.

PS- The point about JJ went over your head. He played 17 mpg as a freshman because there was no AJ or Haas or Biggie on the team. There was Calasan. And yet, JJ was behind him in the pecking order for most of the season and much less effective than he was later in his career. MUCH LESS effective. That is the whole point. You can't judge most players by their freshman year.
I didn't expose anything? I have said for a long time that Painter needs to recruit better. It is very possible that Wheeler gets pissed that he isn't playing this year and a walk-on (who isn't great) is.
 
You are assuming Wheeler isn't playing because he isn't "good enough".
Maybe he's every bit as good as Eifert but, as he is blocked by VE, he would be wasting a year of eligibility for 5 mpg. And if you're Painter, in those 5 mpg you're looking for a player you trust isn't going to give the game away while you rest VE for a couple minutes. Maybe Wheeler is better but also brings more volatility. No not maybe. That's a near certainty.

Would you prefer if Taylor was playing Eifert's minutes instead? Because if Grady isn't getting it done (which he is), there is your scholarship player who will be stepping in to get those precious few backup minutes at the 4.
You are speculating as much as I am with this post.
 
I didn't expose anything? I have said for a long time that Painter needs to recruit better. It is very possible that Wheeler gets pissed that he isn't playing this year and a walk-on (who isn't great) is.
Sorry, I can only keep track of a handful of the regular posters. If you've paid attention to my postings, they are generally down the middle of the road. I recognize there is room for improvement. Criticizing the staff over who is playing filler minutes at the 4 is a pure reach. So is speculation, against all that has been said and written, that the staff is red shirting players against their will.
 
LOL, many people on here have speculated that Wheeler and Eastern will be 1st team all big ten by their senior year. One poster even called Wheeler a "more skilled Troy Wlliams".

As for JJ, he played 17 min/gm as a freshman... Wheeler literally isn't going to see the floor. Ewing will only see the floor in mop up minutes.

Also, who says Wheeler wants to redshirt? What if he sits this year, and transfers next year because CMP played a walk-on (who isn't much more effective) over him? If Wheeler does in fact not play in a game this year, then he can transfer and play immediately elsewhere.

I like Wheeler's skills, but that doesn't mean he knows how to use them effectively within the teams system. Also he's not very good at holding his position for rebounds and blocking out and rebounding are key responsibilities for Vincent and who ever is backing him up. The combination of better rebounding and fewer freshman mistakes make Eifert the easy choice. I'm not sure that getting a few minutes in mop up games would help prepare Wheeler any more then a red shirt season. Past red shirts (Anthony Johnson) may not have worked out well, but they didn't have near Wheeler's raw tools either. I think Ewing figuring things out and becoming Vince's primary backup would be the most likely scenario, but as it is, Eiferts doing what is needed and not hurting at all.
 
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You are speculating as much as I am with this post.
My speculation is only to poke holes in the unfounded speculation. If there is no initial unfounded speculation, then there is no need for other theories. The facts are the staff determined that the team is best off with Wheeler taking a red shirt, and that in every red shirt case, they talk about sitting down and having a conversation with the player. Anything beyond taking the word of everyone involved, that it is mutually agreed upon for mutual benefit, is unfounded speculation.

I don't really have time nor interest for these kind of back-and-forths. I've stated my peace and will move on to the next topic.
 
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My speculation is only to poke holes in the unfounded speculation. If there is no initial unfounded speculation, then there is no need for other theories. The facts are the staff determined that the team is best off with Wheeler taking a red shirt, and that in every red shirt case, they talk about sitting down and having a conversation with the player. Anything beyond taking the word of everyone involved, that it is mutually agreed upon for mutual benefit, is unfounded speculation.
Maybe I missed it, but where are these facts? Please provide a link showing CMP and Wheeler decided it was mutually beneficial for him to redshirt. If you can't, then you are speculating.
 
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