Just talking to an IU buddy of mine

[mathboy]

These percentages are for field goal percentage (in conference games only), rather than points per possession. Purdue did really well in this category.

I think that the overall stats are flavored by the outside competition you play, and are less accurate as a comparison measure. That is why I prefer to look at the BIG stats only.

Once playing inside the BIG conference, most teams had fairly equal schedules. Those claiming this or that school had "easier" schedules are generally talking small fractions of difference across a full 18 game schedule, specifically when dealing with the statistical measures.

When you talk defense and offense, that field goal percent is a reasonable measure to compare any two teams on their relative capability. What this says is that while Indiana lead the BIG in scoring, they were about as efficient as Purdue on offense, but defensively, they lacked much, ranking dead last in the conference.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

I think that the overall stats are flavored by the outside competition you play, and are less accurate as a comparison measure. That is why I prefer to look at the BIG stats only.

Once playing inside the BIG conference, most teams had fairly equal schedules. Those claiming this or that school had "easier" schedules are generally talking small fractions of difference across a full 18 game schedule, specifically when dealing with the statistical measures.

When you talk defense and offense, that field goal percent is a reasonable measure to compare any two teams on their relative capability. What this says is that while Indiana lead the BIG in scoring, they were about as efficient as Purdue on offense, but defensively, they lacked much, ranking dead last in the conference.

I agree that it is interesting to compare field goal percentages. I was just pointing out what you were comparing, because it sounded like you were comparing points per possession.

As you know, points per possession is influenced by additional factors including three point shots made, free throws attempted and made, turnovers, and rebounding, none of which are reflected in traditional field goal percentage.

 

[West James]

We are both excited as can be about the upcoming season. Still cannot believe both teams are finally top tier and we only play once. I'd put this in the top rivalries out there. Just to start a debate I'd say the second best rivalry behind only Duke vs. NC.

Much of the "rivalry" depends on the current & past success of both teams. Top 3 [by far, if you look at length, history, success of both teams historically & currently] rivalries, by far, would be [in no particular order]:

IU-Purdue: Has length, lots of past, & now current success, both teams have a national championship, ect., ect...

KY-Louisville: See above, except, currently, both teams are even better, a little less history/length in rivalry, but today, still among the best in the country.

NC-Duke: Has everything, except the length/history of above rivalries. Currently, the best rivalry in the nation.


Historically, there are three rivalries that stand out far, far above & beyond all the rest. Those above are historically unequealled in college [men's] basketball history. If I'm not mistaken, as far as a high nationally competative level/championship type level of college basketball, the IU-Purdue rivalry goes back the farthest, with KY.-Louisville being #2 in that catagory, & NC.-Duke being third. The basketball triangle is, was, & will always be Indiana, North Carolina & Kentucky. That will never change. I believe the IU-Purdue rivalry has the most "history".

 

[RRanney1]

With regard to IU, I think the most telling statistic (BIG only) is that both IU and Purdue scored at about the same rate per possession. Purdue was 5th in the BIG scoring at the rate of .452 per posssession. IU was 6th, score .450 per possession. About even.

However, IU was 14th in defense allowing their opponent to score at a .475 rate, while Purdue was #1 defensively, allowing only a score rate of .393. Here is where the real difference is between the two teams as of last year.

Scoring rates and defensive capability carry over year-to-year pretty well, especially if the teams have roughly the same personnell. I don't see this changing much next year.

You would have to think IU won't be "as" abysmal on the road as they were last year, but it is also hard to imagine they will be much better defensively and the loss of Hanner is a way bigger blow to their frontcourt than most IU fans seem willing to admit. They have phenomenal talent and depth in their backcourt but those guys don't play defense and they don't always seem to be on the same page. I'm really hoping their media and fans keep expectations way out of whack with reality though, as it will make it just that much funnier when they are only marginally better than last year (at which point even more people will be calling for Crean's head but their AD still likely won't cut him loose).

With Purdue the potential is there for a ton of improvement, as our best shooters very rarely played like they are capable, Hammons didn't really wake up until Big Ten play started, and obviously the addition of Swanigan could make an already good frontcourt great. We have to replace Octeus, and while that seems achievable on paper, we need to see it play out in reality, but aside from that the biggest problem will be figuring out how to spread out the minutes, as we've got too much depth to overwork the starters while quality backups ride the pine, but we played best last year when we shrank the rotation.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

You would have to think IU won't be "as" abysmal on the road as they were last year, but it is also hard to imagine they will be much better defensively and the loss of Hanner is a way bigger blow to their frontcourt than most IU fans seem willing to admit.

We have to replace Octeus, and while that seems achievable on paper, we need to see it play out in reality.

If you think that the loss of Hanner Perea has any real bearing on IU's defensive abilities, then you watched a very different Perea than the one I watched. Beilfeldt as a backup center for Michigan last year was a far better defensive player than Perea; better positioning and much better defensive awareness. Perea's defensive value was limited to highlight plays, not the type of plays that win games.

IU should be pretty good this year, and definitely better defensively. Purdue will be excellent. If Hill can be an on-court leader and a plus defender, Purdue could be a top ten team and a very, very good defenisve team.Thompson will improve, and that means that you guys will have a backup pg that is more than acceptable.

Cheers

 

[BBG]

If you think that the loss of Hanner Perea has any real bearing on IU's defensive abilities, then you watched a very different Perea than the one I watched.

You know there is some truth to this. IU's defense was so terribad that it is hard to imagine it getting much worse.

 

[SIBoiler2]

If you think that the loss of Hanner Perea has any real bearing on IU's defensive abilities, then you watched a very different Perea than the one I watched. Beilfeldt as a backup center for Michigan last year was a far better defensive player than Perea; better positioning and much better defensive awareness. Perea's defensive value was limited to highlight plays, not the type of plays that win games.

IU should be pretty good this year, and definitely better defensively. Purdue will be excellent. If Hill can be an on-court leader and a plus defender, Purdue could be a top ten team and a very, very good defenisve team.Thompson will improve, and that means that you guys will have a backup pg that is more than acceptable.

Cheers

Don't forget that last year Max was playing for a coach that knew what he was doing once the game started other than twitching, hitching up his pants, clapping, sucking on the Pepsi bottle, etc.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

You know there is some truth to this. IU's defense was so terribad that it is hard to imagine it getting much worse.

+1. IU is counting on this theory, and for the most part, it absolutely holds.

Also; a guy like Hulls who could shoot lights out from the start at IU turned from a defensive horror show into a guy that could at least be hidden by his senior year. This holds for most players, though some (ahem, Perea) never seem to get there from the neck up.

My theory? If you have a player that is smart and has a good work ethic, improvement is very likely. Add athletic ability and you have a plus defender.

Worked for RDavis, will work for Thompson, and Haas should turn into a true 'plus defender' by the end of this year.

For IU? Expect Holt, Robert Johnson, and Hartman (who will now be 16 months removed from knee surgery instead of 4 months) to be markedly better. Bryant plus Bielfeldt for IU at the five spot is a MAJOR upgrade defensively. I think that casual fans forget just how lost Perea was at times, and just how technically sound Bielfeldt has been for Michigan.

 

[Da_Bull]

The game this year will be better than it has in a while but still not on the level of UK/UofL or Duke/UNC. I see IU and PU both on about the same level, both lacking in certain areas. Purdue lacking guard play and shooting, IU lacking post depth and defense. Purdue will be more consistent, playing solid D, very good front court but may lack the fire power to pull away or come back if they get down double digits. IU will have the higher ceiling but not sure how close we'll get to that ceiling, very good back court, 3 pt shooters, but how smart will they play when the shots don't fall and can they get stops late in the game, how will Holt play down low when not if Bryant gets in foul trouble. I still have PU finishing 3rd 1 spot ahead of IU and behind Maryland and MSU. We have the more favorable schedule so could come into play as far as B1G finishing order, Maryland has a tough schedule but the most talent IMO, MSU even though they lost quite a bit, still have Izzo and have a favorable schedule. Plus I really like Valentine. He's my choice for POY, going up against Tremble/Yogi/Hammons. Should be a fun year.

 

[mathboy]

The game this year will be better than it has in a while but still not on the level of UK/UofL or Duke/UNC. I see IU and PU both on about the same level, both lacking in certain areas. Purdue lacking guard play and shooting, IU lacking post depth and defense. Purdue will be more consistent, playing solid D, very good front court but may lack the fire power to pull away or come back if they get down double digits. IU will have the higher ceiling but not sure how close we'll get to that ceiling, very good back court, 3 pt shooters, but how smart will they play when the shots don't fall and can they get stops late in the game, how will Holt play down low when not if Bryant gets in foul trouble. I still have PU finishing 3rd 1 spot ahead of IU and behind Maryland and MSU. We have the more favorable schedule so could come into play as far as B1G finishing order, Maryland has a tough schedule but the most talent IMO, MSU even though they lost quite a bit, still have Izzo and have a favorable schedule. Plus I really like Valentine. He's my choice for POY, going up against Tremble/Yogi/Hammons. Should be a fun year.

This is one of the best assessments of the match I have read. Da Bull seems to know what he is talking about. I might add in a plus for the IU side. They are still stinging from the two losses last year. Yogi will not want to go out on a sour note. his game is always played on emotions. I think IU shoots the lights out. Will it be enough? Hard to say. I still think it will be close.

 

[Statey]

If you think that the loss of Hanner Perea has any real bearing on IU's defensive abilities, then you watched a very different Perea than the one I watched.

Funny that you mention this. I got into a discussion at lunch today with an IU guy from my office; somehow we got into discussing Perea and how he moved his feet. I told him.... the only moving of his feet was when they left the ground jumping to block a shot (often times against a much smaller offensive player that had gotten in the lane), and more often than not picking up a foul in the process. Perea was an absolutely dreadful basketball player. That Mich transfer IU picked up to replace him won't have any tip dunks make ESPN's top 10, but he's clearly a better overall basketball player.

 

[HoosierfanJM]

Funny that you mention this. I got into a discussion at lunch today with an IU guy from my office; somehow we got into discussing Perea and how he moved his feet. I told him.... the only moving of his feet was when they left the ground jumping to block a shot (often times against a much smaller offensive player that had gotten in the lane), and more often than not picking up a foul in the process. Perea was an absolutely dreadful basketball player. That Mich transfer IU picked up to replace him won't have any tip dunks make ESPN's top 10, but he's clearly a better overall basketball player.

Perea had fantastic natural talent, reasonably good skill level, and the absolute worst basketball instincts humanly possible. This led to a lot of layup drills by IU's opponents last year.

Holt is only 6'7" or so, and has trouble with height. Bielfeldt is automatically better at 6'8"+, and Bryant is very likely to be also, though a freshman big is likely to find some foul trouble.

IU did not match up well at all with Purdue the last two years. Purdue is still a nightmare matchup for undersized teams, but IU has more competent height to deal with it this year.

 

[SIBoiler2]

This is one of the best assessments of the match I have read. Da Bull seems to know what he is talking about. I might add in a plus for the IU side. They are still stinging from the two losses last year. Yogi will not want to go out on a sour note. his game is always played on emotions. I think IU shoots the lights out. Will it be enough? Hard to say. I still think it will be close.

Depends partially on how many of IU's players are still off probation when the season starts.

 

[Statey]

Perea had fantastic natural talent, reasonably good skill level, and the absolute worst basketball instincts humanly possible.

I don't know whether athleticism fits in the "natural talent" category or the "reasonably good skill level", so I'll give you 1 or the other if that's what you meant. All that guy had was physique and athleticism. If he wasn't catching an alley-oop or a rare put-back dunk, he was lost. (And he wasn't doing either of those very often).

 

[Da_Bull]

This is one of the best assessments of the match I have read. Da Bull seems to know what he is talking about. I might add in a plus for the IU side. They are still stinging from the two losses last year. Yogi will not want to go out on a sour note. his game is always played on emotions. I think IU shoots the lights out. Will it be enough? Hard to say. I still think it will be close.

The main thin im curious to see about you guys is if the shots arent falling how does your transition D do or even your transition d in general. Playing edwards/swan/hammons or haas at the 3,4,5 doeant favor to you guys getting back down the court. Im sure it will lend to painter taking the methodical approach on offense but the new shot clock rules dont necessarily help that. In our game denying the entry pass will be key, help keep bryant/hartman/holt/williams out of fiul trouble and force you guys to take outside shots.

 

[BBG]

The main thin im curious to see about you guys is if the shots arent falling how does your transition D do or even your transition d in general. Playing edwards/swan/hammons or haas at the 3,4,5 doeant favor to you guys getting back down the court. Im sure it will lend to painter taking the methodical approach on offense but the new shot clock rules dont necessarily help that. In our game denying the entry pass will be key, help keep bryant/hartman/holt/williams out of fiul trouble and force you guys to take outside shots.

I think you will see a dramatic improvement in outside shooting this year for Purdue. Dakota is finally healthy and even Kendall was hurt most of last season but if you have seen any of the practice vids, Dakota at least seems to have found his stroke.

Yes I know it was just practice but when you're doing that against one of the best defensive teams in the league, it says something . If even one of the shooters (Dakota, Kendall, Cline if he doesn't RS) has even a mediocre night, that will open things up inside. And let us also not forget Biggie has an outside shot too .. If Purdue is firing on all cylinders, there isn't anyone in the country Purdue can't beat. Yeah I am a tad bias, but Purdue hasn't been this loaded in quite some time.

 

[Da_Bull]

I think you will see a dramatic improvement in outside shooting this year for Purdue. Dakota is finally healthy and even Kendall was hurt most of last season but if you have seen any of the practice vids, Dakota at least seems to have found his stroke.

Yes I know it was just practice but when you're doing that against one of the best defensive teams in the league, it says something . If even one of the shooters (Dakota, Kendall, Cline if he doesn't RS) has even a mediocre night, that will open things up inside. And let us also not forget Biggie has an outside shot too .. If Purdue is firing on all cylinders, there isn't anyone in the country Purdue can't beat. Yeah I am a tad bias, but Purdue hasn't been this loaded in quite some time.

They may and should likely improve their shooting but I still feel teams will force you to shoot and clog the middle. Purdue's strength will still be their front court, even more so with Swan, and they won't completely take it away but I'd think teams will take their chances with your shooting. Another thing I want to see is how you guys play with a tougher schedule. Last year you had a very favorable draw only playing the top 4 teams (not including you guys of course) of MD/MSU/Iowa/Wisc once each and going 2-5 against the top 6 of the league. Now you guys did play those teams well for the most part but playing close is different than a win. But I understand the optimism, the 3 previous years were a bit of a rough stretch after the Hummel and baby powder years, doing so well after the predictions of a bottom half finish due to the last place finish the year before. The addition of Swan, the way you guys gelled in the later half of the year, seeing Purdue defense again. Getting Hill used to the B1G level will be key, getting him comfortable and him to understand his role and how to play within in the team full of bigs.

 

[Heller]

Holt isn't the tallest kid but he's got very long arms. Once he learns position and gains some strength I can't imagine he won't be better than Biefeldt who never really impressed me. The problem Holt has is he chose the wrong school. IU hasn't developed a big since Knight left.

 

[Da_Bull]

Holt isn't the tallest kid but he's got very long arms. Once he learns position and gains some strength I can't imagine he won't be better than Biefeldt who never really impressed me. The problem Holt has is he chose the wrong school. IU hasn't developed a big since Knight left.

I would rather have Holt than Hanner, at least holt has some basketball instincts. Interested to see how he does against Swan.

 

[tjreese]

The main thin im curious to see about you guys is if the shots arent falling how does your transition D do or even your transition d in general. Playing edwards/swan/hammons or haas at the 3,4,5 doeant favor to you guys getting back down the court. Im sure it will lend to painter taking the methodical approach on offense but the new shot clock rules dont necessarily help that. In our game denying the entry pass will be key, help keep bryant/hartman/holt/williams out of fiul trouble and force you guys to take outside shots.

Well, transition D starts when the offensive team has the ball...not when the other team gets the ball. Transition D is helped by good offensive balance which generally results from discipline and awareness. Transition D is typically less of an issue when shots are taken close to the basket...which Purdue should also do. However, as you point out the shot clock decreases the effectiveness of getting good floor balance and getting good shots, but discipline and maturity can lessen the impact.

I expect Purdue to be pretty solid on the perimeter. If the egos are lost....THIS team might be VERY good!

 

[BBG]

I expect Purdue to be pretty solid on the perimeter. If the egos are lost....THIS team might be VERY good!

Yep like IU's defense our outside shooting really can only get better.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Well, transition D starts when the offensive team has the ball...not when the other team gets the ball. Transition D is helped by good offensive balance which generally results from discipline and awareness. Transition D is typically less of an issue when shots are taken close to the basket...which Purdue should also do. However, as you point out the shot clock decreases the effectiveness of getting good floor balance and getting good shots, but discipline and maturity can lessen the impact.

I expect Purdue to be pretty solid on the perimeter. If the egos are lost....THIS team might be VERY good!

I agree completely. The telegraphed turnovers need to be eliminated and offensive balance must exist so that there are always players positioned to get back.

Purdue's strong offensive rebounding should help as well because it will force the defense to commit more players to the boards.

 

[Da_Bull]

Well, transition D starts when the offensive team has the ball...not when the other team gets the ball. Transition D is helped by good offensive balance which generally results from discipline and awareness. Transition D is typically less of an issue when shots are taken close to the basket...which Purdue should also do. However, as you point out the shot clock decreases the effectiveness of getting good floor balance and getting good shots, but discipline and maturity can lessen the impact.

I expect Purdue to be pretty solid on the perimeter. If the egos are lost....THIS team might be VERY good!

It does but it also comes into hustling down the court. Swans not exactly a sprinter, Hammons and haas though decently mobile for bigs aren't great, the rest will have to make up for it but I expect them to play on the perimeter and keep the lane clear for the 2 big guys. I expect PU to be better, more open shots with kickouts from the post. I don't know if I expect them to be solid as they didn't have a single player shoot >40%, as a team shot <33%, that's a pretty big increase needed but if cline can learn to play D, and get some PT he'll definitely help although he's more of a volume shooter but still should help. I don't think they need to shot 40% as a team to be successful though, they creep up into the 35-40% range and it'll only help the post.

 

[BBG]

I don't know if I expect them to be solid as they didn't have a single player shoot >40%, as a team shot <33%, that's a pretty big increase needed

What you and every other IU person that is discounting the improvement to our outside shooting forget, is that Dakota and Kendall for the most part of all season were not close to 100%. Pre-KS's finger issue he was hitting rather well and I don't have exact percentages, but I don't remember people clamoring about the outside shooting then.

Those two being healthy alone is enough for a big improvement to happen. We started to see it towards the end of the year and especially in Dakota when he was healthier.

 

[SIBoiler2]

What you and every other IU person that is discounting the improvement to our outside shooting forget, is that Dakota and Kendall for the most part of all season were not close to 100%. Pre-KS's finger issue he was hitting rather well. I don't have exact percentages, but I don't remember people clamoring about the outside shooting then.

Those two being healthy alone is enough for a big improvement to happen. We started to see it towards the end of the year especially in Dakota when he was healthier.

Just don't get it, do you??? The SNU theorem states that all things IU will improve significantly and all things Purdue will remain static or regress. A second SNU theorem is that 4 star bigs at IU will be NBA ready and 5 star bigs at Purdue will have little affect.

 

[BBG]

Just don't get it, do you??? The SNU theorem states that all things IU will improve significantly and all things Purdue will remain static or regress. A second SNU theorem is that 4 star bigs at IU will be NBA ready and 5 star bigs at Purdue will have little affect.

Thanks for setting me straight, not sure what I was thinking

 

[GemstateBoiler]

Thanks for setting me straight, not sure what I was thinking

Go sit in the corner and think about what you did. The shame, the shame. Everyone, I mean everyone on this board should now have a grasp of the SNU theorem. What are we going to do with you?

 

[mathboy]

Much of this debate hinges on the capability of a 4/5 star freshman to contribute. I think I saw one post some time back that listed all the 5-star flops that went to MSU and failed to contribute much. I am not picking on MSU (are the police watching us?). No, I was curious if anyone could list 5-star high school players that really did not pan out for the college they went to. ...or for that matter, Burger Boys that washed out.

That might be an interesting list.

 

[Da_Bull]

What you and every other IU person that is discounting the improvement to our outside shooting forget, is that Dakota and Kendall for the most part of all season were not close to 100%. Pre-KS's finger issue he was hitting rather well and I don't have exact percentages, but I don't remember people clamoring about the outside shooting then.

Those two being healthy alone is enough for a big improvement to happen. We started to see it towards the end of the year and especially in Dakota when he was healthier.

Wasn't KS finger injury to his non shooting hand?

"Stephens insists the subluxation of his left little finger, suffered in the first half at Illinois on Jan.21, hasn't contributed to a decline in production. He says the injury, to his non-shooting hand, "isn't worth talking about," and would be more of an excuse than a reason."

I'm not saying he won't improve but he's one player. Going through his numbers he shot 43% non conference and 36% in conference, about right considering the quality of teams played. I did notice one thing was he was fairly inconsistent. But I'd think you guys see your 3pt shooting improving just like we see our defense improving, both with good reasons as to why. We will just have to see once basketball season rolls around, I'm sure most of us are ready for it.

 

[Heller]

I would rather have Holt than Hanner, at least holt has some basketball instincts. Interested to see how he does against Swan.

Don't see Holt at the four that often. Williams will play there.

 

[Frankie611]

Go sit in the corner and think about what you did. The shame, the shame. Everyone, I mean everyone on this board should now have a grasp of the SNU theorem. What are we going to do with you?

Poor SNU. Everyone is always ripping on him. I actually thought he was ok but he seems to have been run off!

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Much of this debate hinges on the capability of a 4/5 star freshman to contribute. I think I saw one post some time back that listed all the 5-star flops that went to MSU and failed to contribute much. I am not picking on MSU (are the police watching us?). No, I was curious if anyone could list 5-star high school players that really did not pan out for the college they went to. ...or for that matter, Burger Boys that washed out.

That might be an interesting list.

Perea was a five star.

 

[TwinDegrees2]

Perea had fantastic natural talent, reasonably good skill level, and the absolute worst basketball instincts humanly possible. This led to a lot of layup drills by IU's opponents last year.

Holt is only 6'7" or so, and has trouble with height. Bielfeldt is automatically better at 6'8"+, and Bryant is very likely to be also, though a freshman big is likely to find some foul trouble.

IU did not match up well at all with Purdue the last two years. Purdue is still a nightmare matchup for undersized teams, but IU has more competent height to deal with it this year.

But....you honestly still have one of the three worst coaches in the league. And he may be the worst.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

They may and should likely improve their shooting but I still feel teams will force you to shoot and clog the middle. Purdue's strength will still be their front court, even more so with Swan, and they won't completely take it away but I'd think teams will take their chances with your shooting. Another thing I want to see is how you guys play with a tougher schedule. Last year you had a very favorable draw only playing the top 4 teams (not including you guys of course) of MD/MSU/Iowa/Wisc once each and going 2-5 against the top 6 of the league. Now you guys did play those teams well for the most part but playing close is different than a win. But I understand the optimism, the 3 previous years were a bit of a rough stretch after the Hummel and baby powder years, doing so well after the predictions of a bottom half finish due to the last place finish the year before. The addition of Swan, the way you guys gelled in the later half of the year, seeing Purdue defense again. Getting Hill used to the B1G level will be key, getting him comfortable and him to understand his role and how to play within in the team full of bigs.

I do think that teams will try to clog the middle against Purdue, Pack-line style, which is why I think that Painter will make sure he always has at least one shooter on the court at all times. I'd like to see Painter play Mathias and Stephens together as well, quite a bit, to really loosen up the defense.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

It does but it also comes into hustling down the court. Swans not exactly a sprinter, Hammons and haas though decently mobile for bigs aren't great, the rest will have to make up for it but I expect them to play on the perimeter and keep the lane clear for the 2 big guys. I expect PU to be better, more open shots with kickouts from the post. I don't know if I expect them to be solid as they didn't have a single player shoot >40%, as a team shot <33%, that's a pretty big increase needed but if cline can learn to play D, and get some PT he'll definitely help although he's more of a volume shooter but still should help. I don't think they need to shot 40% as a team to be successful though, they creep up into the 35-40% range and it'll only help the post.

I think that Hammons runs the court much better now than he did a couple of years ago. Haas isn't a sprinter, of course. Based on what I saw in the FIFA games, Swanigan isn't a sprinter either, but he should do ok, at least if his minutes are limited. He certainly will have an easier time getting up and down the court than Jay Simpson did before his heart problem was diagnosed.

 

[BoilerDaddy]

Wasn't KS finger injury to his non shooting hand?

"Stephens insists the subluxation of his left little finger, suffered in the first half at Illinois on Jan.21, hasn't contributed to a decline in production. He says the injury, to his non-shooting hand, "isn't worth talking about," and would be more of an excuse than a reason."

I'm not saying he won't improve but he's one player. Going through his numbers he shot 43% non conference and 36% in conference, about right considering the quality of teams played. I did notice one thing was he was fairly inconsistent. But I'd think you guys see your 3pt shooting improving just like we see our defense improving, both with good reasons as to why. We will just have to see once basketball season rolls around, I'm sure most of us are ready for it.

Stephens was very close to having surgery and being shutdown for a month. He started the season on fire before he first dislocated it against BYU.

 

[Chuchumutha]

Stephens was very close to having surgery and being shutdown for a month. He started the season on fire before he first dislocated it against BYU.

IIRC, Stephens was shooting close to 50% from three prior to the injury and in the low 30's after. The cause and effect is pretty obvious.

 

[BBG]

Go sit in the corner and think about what you did. The shame, the shame. Everyone, I mean everyone on this board should now have a grasp of the SNU theorem. What are we going to do with you?

I had a momentary lapse in judgement and I hope all can forgive me. Please don't make me go to IU

 

[Da_Bull]

Don't see Holt at the four that often. Williams will play there.

Ive come to grips that youre probably right, thats what majority of people think. I think against you guys and other big front courts youll see some Holt at the 4. We only have 4 true guards on the roster not counting a walkon who isnt too shabby for a walkon, so Id like to see:

Yogi/johnson
Jbj/zeisloft
Williams/anunoby
Hartman/holt/morgan
Bryant/beilfeldt/priller

Keeps johnson or jbj from being mismatched at the 3 and williams from mismatched at 4 helping our defense, keeps 2 reserve guards, and we still have 3 shooters and athletes at 1-3 to run if we want. But crean loves his guards so youll likely see yogi/jbj/johnson/williams/bryant as much as i hate to see it. We do have some flexability for dfferent lineups against different teams and can go bigger or small.

 

[Da_Bull]

IIRC, Stephens was shooting close to 50% from three prior to the injury and in the low 30's after. The cause and effect is pretty obvious.

He was but that was also against some pretty weak teams. The more telling stat to me was his first 5 B1G games, before the Illanoy game, he was 17/39 or 44% with games against Michigan, Wisc, Maryland. He was pretty inconsistent the rest of the year, at least part could be attributed to his injury but again was his non shooting hand and the pinky at that. But those 5 games to start the conference season shows he can shoot it well but its a small sample size. I'm just not ready to say he will shoot like that all year, but he does have it in him to do so.