Interesting video about our defense
- Thread starter Boilermaker427
- Start date
I saw that video on my feed... wasn't planning on watching it to give views to the guy with a title like that...
I mean it’s probably his “schtick” his Chanel is called “awful coaching” and it’s the only Purdue video. I can’t tell if he’s just against drop coverage or we aren’t doing it correctly
Even if his analysis is correct I couldn't listen to him for more than 30 seconds.
No way I’m watching that and I wish a Purdue fan was omnipresent enough to not post it.
He’s not wrong on this though. 2 or 3 basic actions that we play drop coverage on every time. It’s better when we have Edey in the game as the rim protector but we got victimized on it constantly when we didn’t. For both long AND short easy baskets.
I know why Painter does it…play the odds and make a team shoot it very well to beat you. Basically, if they get open looks they are 15+ feet away from the basket (with a few outliers) and you’re not giving up anything easy. Also with a superior rebounding team like ours we can avoid easy outback’s as well. Issue is we gave up 4-5 easy baskets, turned the ball over like crazy and then basically traded baskets otherwise.
Sounds like every single loss we’ve had over the past 3 years in the NCAAs to me. I get that we play it and it mostly works…but when it’s not it would t hurt to adjust!
I know why Painter does it…play the odds and make a team shoot it very well to beat you. Basically, if they get open looks they are 15+ feet away from the basket (with a few outliers) and you’re not giving up anything easy. Also with a superior rebounding team like ours we can avoid easy outback’s as well. Issue is we gave up 4-5 easy baskets, turned the ball over like crazy and then basically traded baskets otherwise.
Sounds like every single loss we’ve had over the past 3 years in the NCAAs to me. I get that we play it and it mostly works…but when it’s not it would t hurt to adjust!
No offense, but that's kind of the equivalent of putting your head in the sand. I don't love the title either, and I'm not an Xs and Os basketball person, I was just curious on thoughts. I didn't realize we weren't "omnipresent" (lol), if we posted something with someone having a negative opinion on our coaching and scheme.
But thanks to the person who confirmed the guy just doesn't agree with the drop coverage. I didn't know if that was the point or it was just we were doing something fixable
Not sure I'm going to comment on all of his comments and have just listened to a few seconds. However, a person can make a STRONG case that Purdue lost due to offense, not defense. Second, he immediately wants Purdue to force baseline. Well, I don't know the game plan on D (and neither does he for a variety of reasons), but certainly you can look at Purdue against MSU at least at Purdue and see Braden doing just that on Walker. Now, why the difference in how Braden forced baseline against Walker and his first clip? Neither he or I know why, except he may not know that Purdue does that at times.
Personally, against some players I like to force baseline and away from screens. What I don't know is if this is an isolated event (don't think so). I and he I'm sure can't recall how Purdue played Wisconsin when it won two previous time. Generally, I don't see Purdue forcing as much baseline as years before.
Many years ago "giving up the baseline" was a no no. Teams that do "force" baseline do so with the understanding that the player will want to go baseline and knowing this tries to shut him off. However, if he continues to drive along the baseline then help, and many times a 5 has to stop the drive. The advantage with someone like Zach is that he may stop the driver, putting the driver in bad spot. Alternatively, I believe most could see it also could gather fouls on Zach by more involvement.
Then the next question or what should be a next question is whether Zach is more important in playing Wisconsin than MSU should he be exposed to potentially more fouls? I'm not implying that is the reason for the D in the clip, but just a thought in general. However, what should be noticed is that as simple as this one clip is, there are variables in play that fans are not aware that the coaches have considered. Could the coaches be wrong...yes, but doing so with an informed opinion of his players and the other team's players as a group or net effect of a team and with considerable more thought prior to the game than those unaware of what they should be.
Then with all this said...if something breaks down was it the player or the concept? The overriding reason for forcing baseline is to try to keep people out of the lane, by essentially cutting down the court and consequently the many problems that occur with ball, player or both penetrating the lane. Ball position is VERY important on the court, but it is safe to say that all D would prefer to keep it out of the lane as much as possible. Some may recall how Purdue values ball location on post feeds.
Some may recall a timeout that Purdue may call and Matt or the other coaches "verifying" the "location" on the court since it may be soooooo important where the ball will enter the court. Things considered will take place depending on the location of the ball and some desires may be scrapped due to the location and time...then again relative to the location and time is who they or Purdue want to get the ball and do they prefer to go right or left if time is critical. Trying to force the ball to go a certain direction takes place all the time whether successful or not for a variety of reasons
I listened to a bit more and you have to shake your head and smile. First, Purdue has 2 defensive coaches. Lusk coached D for Matt with the baby boilers before becoming a head coach and then returning to coaching D. Then Johnson coached D for Butler and Ohio State before coming to Purdue. Could they make mistakes? Yes, but they are not rookies and have been on the winning side a LOT. The simpleton on the video does not distinguish breakdowns due to players as opposed to theory. Furthermore, he also doesn't understand that personnel affects how you play D and what is best for one team isn't best for another in how you play things. That said, outside of the player mistakes of which there were many, there were a few things I would prefer to see more often as an approach, but to pretend that his video is exemplary of Purdue defense on the whole is to lump in a view that the D never changes and to ignore mistakes of the players. Is there any chance the same approach was used to beat Wisconsin twice when the offense was not a detriment? Perhaps, but don't see that comparison and quite frankly I don't know either...
I'm not going to bother watching this video. Purdue's downfall, it seems to me, is dribble penetration. They haven't been able to stay in front of anyone...at least come tournament time.
dribble penetration was, is, and will continue to be a concern. It may become less as athleticism grows at Purdue, but Matt generally leans to skill over athleticism in his recruiting
Seems like the recent tournament losses have more to do with turnovers and shooting rather than defense.
Purdue over helped in the North Texas game, but that was on the players not that helping is wrong when someone has an advantage. The last two were definitely poor offense and in the North Texas game...throwing the ball inside was a problem
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Purdue’s effort was not 100% on Saturday because nobody actually cared about winning the BTT. You could tell they weren’t hustling. How they handled the ball screen is connected.
I mean we lost because of both because of key plays on both ends where execution would have resulted in a win. Two key missed free throws, a turnover, a bone head foul on offense and multiple easy and quick layups (at least three) on defense on defense and I believe we gave up what two offensive rebounds on one play late in regulation that they then finally scored on.
Of course you guys attack this video when this guy wether you like it or not is coreect.
We go over EVERY screen even 40 feet from the basket and allow guys to turn into the lane with drop coverage EVERY time.
But to expect any of you on this board to think critically and realize there are many things we do wrong is asking too much. This may as well be the Painter and crew fanclub
We go over EVERY screen even 40 feet from the basket and allow guys to turn into the lane with drop coverage EVERY time.
But to expect any of you on this board to think critically and realize there are many things we do wrong is asking too much. This may as well be the Painter and crew fanclub
And thats what this video shows lmao
We allow guys to drive to the lane on every screen because we choose drop coverage EVERY time
We choose drop coverage with Edey every time. For good reason, it's unrealistic to ask him to switch a screen and guard a perimeter player. It's the price you pay for the mismatch on the other end.
We don't always do drop coverage every time for other players. Sometimes we do, sometimes we do switching, sometimes we go under the screen, sometimes we fight over the screen.
The team is top 20 in defensive metrics. Why do you think that is?
Again, your problem is just the converse of the Painter can do no wrong crowd and not any better. Just like they can never find a Painter mistake, you can't help but agree to Painter anytime someone claims he makes a mistake.
Now, do I think he made some wrong calls in this game? Sure. Do I think there's some pattern to wrong calls season wide? No. Because the data says we play pretty good defense most of the time.
I also think some of those wrong calls would have ordinarily been right but for things like Smith being injured with four fouls (I probably don't put him on Hepburn at the end). But overall? Hard to do much better than a top 20 defense.
So yeah people aren't taking the over the top Painter's an idiot nature of the video seriously. It's also obviously this guy watched one part of one game and that's it, which renders his opinion, at best, severely limited.
I do wish they would go under the screen periodically instead of over every time. I believe the defender would have a better chance to stay with the player instead of constantly getting picked off.
lol. This from the guy who said he has watched every game, yet he complains that Painter is "Playing guys like morton over others that are way better" to prove how stubborn Painter is.
Troll, still on his emotional rant.
what I dislike most is horizontal passes to the other team. I would rather not throw it and take anything other than a pass intercepted due to a player already in position, but waiting on the pass. Nobody tries to miss FTs and you have to shoot them and making them certainly helps...especially if it is Zach since they will continue to foul him if he doesn't. That is my biggest complaint. Braden's foul...yeah, but that goes on in every game and happened to Braden as well. As a single instance it too was critical. Matt doesn't like to stop the clock when ahead and time is closing out. Offensive execution and the clock running and the team still wins right or wrong. There are a lot of things different in an OT or 1 pt game that can be pointed towards of a play her or a play there, but take a jump ball, take a count, take a vertical pass partially covered, but don't throw the ball away as the defense intercepts and heads down teh court. Those things are really frustrating
Agree. The Boilers are easiest to beat when they get lax with the passing. The D has been pretty sound when it gets setup in the half court.
This is what concerns me about playing TCU, in particular, not that we know that Purdue and TCU will face each other. They are 22nd nationally in adjusted forced turnover rate (per Torvik).
Jamie Dixon is their coach and has been on Matt's USA staff. Purdue played PItt I believe when Jamie was their coach. It may have been a game that Ryan Cline (as a freshman) came off the bench to hit a or maybe a couple of 3 balls for the win. What I remember mostly was all the screening inside the lane back then by Pitt. That game was a struggle for Purdue I recall
Yes, stop passing the ball to the other team, and a lot of other problems go away.
IF we meet TCU, we will get a chance to demonstrate we can keep the ball in our possession until we take a shot. They are tough and like to get out and go. TO's against them will be deadly.
I was typing the same as above. Great minds.....
IF we meet TCU, we will get a chance to demonstrate we can keep the ball in our possession until we take a shot. They are tough and like to get out and go. TO's against them will be deadly.
I was typing the same as above. Great minds.....
If they didn't care why were they getting into stare downs and other overly emotional situations? It's probably not a 1 point OT game if you're going through the motions.
Hopefully playing MSU recently helps with the preparation for TCU.
It's like data, anyone can make them support anything. This guy knows that using FAR OUT adjectives makes him money. Someone else could easily make a similar video with totally the opposite snippets to show great defense.
Correct. Make a guy hit a contested 3 before we just automatically give them the free opening to the lane
I agree with this stat analysis. Although, Matt has often mentioned the statistical advantage of hitting threes over alternatives.
There aren’t many players who can hit pull-up twos at an efficient enough rate to keep up with Purdue normally, but I suspect, without looking at the stats, that Klesmit might be one. Problem with him is that he’ll take the 3 every time if you go under. Braden Smith and Boo Buie might be the hardest to guard with drop coverage in the league because of their ability to pull up from either 2 or 3. JHS last year was another and he was a nightmare for Purdue to contain.
I do think going on top of the side screen and trailing JHS gave him a lead curling into the lane for an easy shot. Matt is so worried about the 3 ball that he is afraid of him stopping behind the screens and hitting a 3 ball. It was so easy years ago...on screens away from the ball just go to the inside of the screen, but a good shooting player behind the arc changes that some.
this is a good place based upon another thread. But you know, I've never thought Matt was stupid. I never thought if only Purdue went under the screens the skies would always be blue. I've always understood the trade-off and I've always understood that I didn't know the opposition as well as the coaches and so on.
I watched and it just looked like Purdue didn’t play with a lot of energy. Sorry but he’s using a game we could care less about to try to prove a point that the coaching staff of the team that may be one of the most over performing team in the country based on their talent doesn’t know basic defense.
We may “overperform” based on meaningless star rankings that are handed out before the kids play a single college game.
To act like Purdue is devoid of plain talent with two All Big ten players and the national player of the year is disingenuous.
Winning the Big Ten this year was expected due to said talent. Not some amazing coaching. Losing last year to one of the worst teams that existed at the D1 level was underachieving on a level that may never be seen again.
You don’t win this many games while devoid of talent. Or even having less talent than most teams in your league.
Painter is good at striking gold at a higher clip on under the radar players more than most coaches. That doesn’t mean his coaching outweighs the actual talent that comes in
I mean no Purdue is not one of the most over performing teams. They have a near NBA player at center if not NBA and one of the best college players of all time with very good players surrounding him.
There's plenty of real talent on the team.
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