Indiana at Purdue: MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD

[tjreese]

Butler ?

FWIW, Butler is where his great uncle played in the mid 60s. He was a good player that I watched as a youngster. Notice the number on Gene...Matt and Brian both had/have it. My brother-in-law fixed Gene up with his wife!

Gene Milner - Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame

Coached by HOF coach Phil Buck...4-year letterman for the Hornets ...held the Rossville Career Scoring Record for 25 years (1641 points)...scored 40+ points 8 times in career...state’s leading scorer as a senior...All-Conference, All-Sectional, All-County & All-State as senior...played for HOF...

hoopshall.com

 

[Do Dah Day]

FWIW, Butler is where his great uncle played in the mid 60s. He was a good player that I watched as a youngster. Notice the number on Gene...Matt and Brian both had/have it. My brother-in-law fixed Gene up with his wife!

Gene Milner - Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame

Coached by HOF coach Phil Buck...4-year letterman for the Hornets ...held the Rossville Career Scoring Record for 25 years (1641 points)...scored 40+ points 8 times in career...state’s leading scorer as a senior...All-Conference, All-Sectional, All-County & All-State as senior...played for HOF...

hoopshall.com

who was the son of the Rossville coach that played at Wisconsin?

 

[tjreese]

who was the son of the Rossville coach that played at Wisconsin?

Brian Good. Dad also coached at FRankfort. Nice guy really short. Brian was taller

Brian Good - Head Men's Basketball Coach - Staff Directory - Wingate University Athletics

Brian Good enters his 17th season as the head men's basketball coach in the 2024-25 season. The program's all-time leader in career wins, Good has compiled a 274-191

wingatebulldogs.com

 

[qazplm]

Yes, Zach was not expected to handle the ball adn bring it up. He was not expected to break presses. Zach was not expected to defend the best perimeter play or jam the ball. Zach's role was different. Zach's role was to rebound, defend the rim, set high screens and roll down the lane and seal his man for a short jump hook or back his player down. His role was different than other players, but he had a role and was more expanded than some. EVERY player on a team has a role. Some are more expanded than others. Some are givers and others takers. Some defend the best perimeter player. Those with "expanded" roles are those that have a more free reign to do more things. Braden's role is much different than any other player on the team. Trey's role is different than Braden's.

I don't think your thoughts are that different...it is just that I like to think that every player has a role and that role is how the coach determines a starting five and the subbing thereafter based upon the role that is needed. Too many announcers talk as though only certain players have a role and other players do what they want, but that isn't true...even though some are allowed to do a lot and for those players THAT is their role to be as good as they can within a larger scope.

Yes and some roles are to be focus players and others are to be role players.

Edey was THE focus of the offense his last two seasons. That didn't change based on the game plan. There's nothing wrong with being a role player.

Edey was a role player his first two seasons too.
You imply an issue where none exists unless you have an ego, in which case, the solution is to get better until you become the or one of the focus players.

 

[tjreese]

Yes and some roles are to be focus players and others are to be role players.

Edey was THE focus of the offense his last two seasons. That didn't change based on the game plan. There's nothing wrong with being a role player.

Edey was a role player his first two seasons too.
You imply an issue where none exists unless you have an ego, in which case, the solution is to get better until you become the or one of the focus players.

Not at all. What I tried to state was that the "role" differs between players and every person has a role. If the guy is focused as you say he has an expanded role, but it is not all inclusive of all the roles needed for a team. I think that understanding helps identify that there are strengths and weaknesses in every player and so naturally you want to use their strengths without magnifying their weakness. When players stay in their roles...however large, small or focused as you say the team is better than when they move outside their roles.

That is my belief and thought you shared that, but thought it only extended to some players. It isn't important because neither of us are coaching a team and how we think about roles is insignificant to Purdue.

 

[Bank Shot Podcast]

I always preferred to state that ALL players are role players, but some players role's are more expanded than others. It is more accurate IMO.

Technically.... Correct. Everyone on a team has a role. Obviously we just use different terms to further categorize specific roles.

 

[boilermaker75]

Don't worry the next hire will be fired as well.

Yep, meet the new coach, same as the old coach.

 

[Chi-Boiler]

Not at all. What I tried to state was that the "role" differs between players and every person has a role. If the guy is focused as you say he has an expanded role, but it is not all inclusive of all the roles needed for a team. I think that understanding helps identify that there are strengths and weaknesses in every player and so naturally you want to use their strengths without magnifying their weakness. When players stay in their roles...however large, small or focused as you say the team is better than when they move outside their roles.

That is my belief and thought you shared that, but thought it only extended to some players. It isn't important because neither of us are coaching a team and how we think about roles is insignificant to Purdue.

It's all a definition of what a "role player" is. I get TJ's point that all players have "roles." No matter how good they are. It's just that the common definition of a role player is a middle-of-the-road kind of player. That they do a certain thing well.

 

[purduedavie]

Butler ?

If he’s studying pharmacy like his dad did it makes perfect sense. Not sure he’d play much there but maybe he would?

 

[Jbigler1986]

I've been watching TKR screens all year and he almost does a moving screen every time. So not surprised some finally got called.

 

[tjreese]

It's all a definition of what a "role player" is. I get TJ's point that all players have "roles." No matter how good they are. It's just that the common definition of a role player is a middle-of-the-road kind of player. That they do a certain thing well.

I think the common definition is for casual observers who also like to hear all the things an announcer will say that has nothing to do with what happened or what is going on. I think most on this forum could tell you Caleb's role and so forth because I believe people here are more astute. If Matt subs a player in on D and a different on O even if they play the same position...Matt is looking for that player as a better player for what Matt wants at the time. As you know that doesn't mean Matt doesn't expect some things from all players...like pass and catch, talk on D, hit the boards and so forth. The common definition implies that a "role" player has limited abilities, but even the best players have limited abilities in some areas. Grady was described by many as a role player. That said Grady was expected to fill in the voids that was missing...hit a high percent of shots, find the rebounds, handle the ball, play D and make good decisions. He didn't need a lot of shots and was incapable of being as effective if he had he shot more. He spread the court by being a threat...a very effective threat to knock down the three ball. Mason was a catch and shoot player...rarely a compliment with a dribble, intelligent player that brought physicality to the team and great effort, but not one depended on to bring the ball up, but maybe one to take the ball out due to his intelligence to make the right pass to another player that was a ballhandler or a shooter if you knew they were going to foul.

We all know these things. I just prefer to emphasize that all players have strengths and weaknesses that create the conditions coaches see them in their roles and try to place them accordingly. Trey is a really good player for Purdue, but could there be times you want him replaced with a better shooter in the closing seconds if the opposition is going to foul. I just prefer to think that there are players that "are not the main focus" that are critical for success that have very important roles even if limited in scope to those that generally have broader roles. If others don't that is fine.

 

[Gman544]

Agree. So, this year what are the roles for Colvin and Heide in your opinion? I think they should be in order of importance: to come off the bench with energy/intensity, solid individual and team defense, rebounding, running the court for possible layup or dunk, and taking open looks, mostly from three. No drives to the basket, not a lot of handling of the basketball on offense, limited helping with backcourt pressure only as an outlet with a couple of dribbles after receiving the ball and look to get it back to Smith or another guard.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

DJ flying cross-country from Tempe to Champaign-Urbana for the Ohio State/Illinois tussle. Smh.

 

[02BoilerUp]

I've been watching TKR screens all year and he almost does a moving screen every time. So not surprised some finally got called.

I think it's about like holding in football...it could be called about every possession. I'm watching IL/OSU and Bradshaw for OSU is moving every screen he sets. One time he fell over trying to slide further and shoulder bump the defender. They seem to either watch that closely or completely disregard it.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

I think it's about like holding in football...it could be called about every possession. I'm watching IL/OSU and Bradshaw for OSU is moving every screen he sets. One time he fell over trying to slide further and shoulder bump the defender. They seem to either watch that closely or completely disregard it.

I'm generally ok IF they are consistent with the calls.....that's a huge problem with Big Ten officials, among many things.

Frankly though, a lot of teams have gotten bad with these - Purdue included.

JMHO

 

[tjreese]

Agree. So, this year what are the roles for Colvin and Heide in your opinion? I think they should be in order of importance: to come off the bench with energy/intensity, solid individual and team defense, rebounding, running the court for possible layup or dunk, and taking open looks, mostly from three. No drives to the basket, not a lot of handling of the basketball on offense, limited helping with backcourt pressure only as an outlet with a couple of dribbles after receiving the ball and look to get it back to Smith or another guard.

guessing this is to me? I can agree with what you wrote. I see Cam the better defender, but on a 3 or 4 mostly. I see Myles defending the 1-3, but he does quite often trail his man and Purdue uses his height on a PG at times, but not sure how effective it is since they get by him. Both are generally catch and shoot players. Where I struggle is trying to understand what is so difficult for them to take two dribbles into the lane when pressured and elevate relaxed for a jumper. I mean that skill would help those two athletes and Purdue a LOT. In the IU game Cam got in the lane and then when defended...passed it back out. It is baffling how Braden and Fletch can put the ball on the court and go inside where the trees are and score and the two athletes don't or can't. Both should be better rebounders.

I always thought Myles was going to be a shooter and he still can be...but something is going on. Still these are two players that share a lot of the same abilities, but one is a few inches taller and more experienced. Cam defers open 3s at times and Myles isn't shy.

 

[Boileratthebeach]

DJ flying cross-country from Tempe to Champaign-Urbana for the Ohio State/Illinois tussle. Smh.

Talk about travel impacting teams but what about referees??? Good point Tex.

 

[tjreese]

Talk about travel impacting teams but what about referees??? Good point Tex.

and you know those refs are in great shape ! I see that TV Teddy is in the ACC. I think I would prefer him in the Big on some games that didn't require a lot of travel.

 

[Purdue Grad in Texas]

and you know those refs are in great shape ! I see that TV Teddy is in the ACC. I think I would prefer him in the Big on some games that didn't require a lot of travel.

We miss you, Ted....haha.

 

[tjreese]

I think it's about like holding in football...it could be called about every possession. I'm watching IL/OSU and Bradshaw for OSU is moving every screen he sets. One time he fell over trying to slide further and shoulder bump the defender. They seem to either watch that closely or completely disregard it.

A lot of that is due to the dribbler going too wide and the screener trying to help get his defender off. Part of the problem is if the screener doesn't slip once in a while the defender of the screener many times is high for the hedge and if the dribbler goes tight...and if he goes fast he might charge or end up in an easy trap. Still, you can't pick up fouls and so if you miss the body ...you miss the body...reset and you can do it again in a couple of seconds. With teh shot clock you probably have 12-15 or so seconds to execute.

 

[tjreese]

We miss you, Ted....haha.

...and even ED Hightower would be welcomed...along with Terry Wilmar. TV Ted is a bit lighter than in that picture

 

[qazplm]

It's all a definition of what a "role player" is. I get TJ's point that all players have "roles." No matter how good they are. It's just that the common definition of a role player is a middle-of-the-road kind of player. That they do a certain thing well.

I mean obviously. Yes everyone has a role. No, everyone is not a role player. I mean I'm an attorney but that's Olympic level semantics.

Tell any even minor basketball fan that Jordan was a role player because he had a role and they will look at you like you grew a third arm.

 

[Gman544]

guessing this is to me? I can agree with what you wrote. I see Cam the better defender, but on a 3 or 4 mostly. I see Myles defending the 1-3, but he does quite often trail his man and Purdue uses his height on a PG at times, but not sure how effective it is since they get by him. Both are generally catch and shoot players. Where I struggle is trying to understand what is so difficult for them to take two dribbles into the lane when pressured and elevate relaxed for a jumper. I mean that skill would help those two athletes and Purdue a LOT. In the IU game Cam got in the lane and then when defended...passed it back out. It is baffling how Braden and Fletch can put the ball on the court and go inside where the trees are and score and the two athletes don't or can't. Both should be better rebounders.

I always thought Myles was going to be a shooter and he still can be...but something is going on. Still these are two players that share a lot of the same abilities, but one is a few inches taller and more experienced. Cam defers open 3s at times and Myles isn't shy.

Yes to you thanks. The skill to take the few dribbles is likely not what Painter sees as their role. But they also have to have confidence in their ability to do it in a game against good competition. I think it's a next year thing. It's really important for Myles at his height. Many of the teams Purdue faces have a couple of six-five true guards who can handle the ball. Being able to do so would help the team and Myles game. Yes Myles has a quicker trigger!

 

[DwaynePurvis00]