The issue with thinking about the buyout is that is sunk cost. You are losing money by keeping Hazel and crew. A new hire will bump revenues up past hazel's buyout with just 1 year of increased ticket sales, if we get our guy after 3 tries then we will drastically increase our ticket sales in his year 2. If the ship isn't righted soon the only people that are going to buy season tickets are dementia patients that forgot to stop renewal. Rose-Ade will be filled with opposing teams fan and not the normal 50-50 split. IMO if we are not going to compete then we might as well just get paid millions of dollars to have bama, lsu, usc, und, etc to beat us every year at one of their home nonconf games. I am sure getting drummed by them away will make us more money than playing ISU at Rose-Ade and a bowl game combined. We could have the best of both worlds all the B1G money and still get paid millions to be cup cakes for the big boys. And best of all we could pay our coaching staff basically nothing because who cares. The we could siphon all that money into becoming the best womens lacrosse school in history of the sport. I think I just gave M Burke the best erection he has seen since tiller went to the Rose Bowl.
How many losses will it take
- Thread starter Summy1
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The issue with thinking about the buyout is that is sunk cost. You are losing money by keeping Hazel and crew. A new hire will bump revenues up past hazel's buyout with just 1 year of increased ticket sales, if we get our guy after 3 tries then we will drastically increase our ticket sales in his year 2. If the ship isn't righted soon the only people that are going to buy season tickets are dementia patients that forgot to stop renewal. Rose-Ade will be filled with opposing teams fan and not the normal 50-50 split. IMO if we are not going to compete then we might as well just get paid millions of dollars to have bama, lsu, usc, und, etc to beat us every year at one of their home nonconf games. I am sure getting drummed by them away will make us more money than playing ISU at Rose-Ade and a bowl game combined. We could have the best of both worlds all the B1G money and still get paid millions to be cup cakes for the big boys. And best of all we could pay our coaching staff basically nothing because who cares. The we could siphon all that money into becoming the best womens lacrosse school in history of the sport. I think I just gave M Burke the best erection he has seen since tiller went to the Rose Bowl.
"Dementia patients..."...that is super funny. That is kind of how I picture that scene up there already! Good stuff.
I do find it interesting that, given all of the hatred toward CDH, no one ever spells his name correctly.
Carry on...
While I don't know much about Doeren's coaching, he's a pretty good recruiter. NC State's recruiting classes aren't at the bottom of the ACC.
Also, if you're going to hang onto him, you'll eventually need to extend him to keep him "effective". They probably wouldn't HAVE to extend him after this season, but basically he'll be a lame duck next year. Gonna be harder to recruit.
I think the meat of your post is dead-on, but I disagree with the comment that the buyout is a sunk cost. It's actually the opposite of a sunk cost... it's an incremental cost. If you keep DH, you pay X for head coaching salaries in 2016. If you fire and replace him (with someone of equal pay), your 2016 salaries are 2X because you're still paying him.
You're assuming that a firing and a new coach is guaranteed to result in positive energy, increased ticket sales, better play, etc. to offset the incremental expense. And frankly, it's hard to imagine that not being true, but nevertheless it isn't automatic. Short of hiring a guy with bigtime name recognition, I think fans have given up on the team/staff are going to want to see some small amount of results before they come back. And there could be a little lull there before it materializes.
If I'm Burke, I'd be inclined to give DH 1 more year, but he'd have to make a change at OC in the off-season (if not sooner). I'm not a smart enough football mind to know whether the HC or the OC is the root problem. But I am smart enough to know that if I have multiple variables in play, changing up one of them will at least aid in proving or disproving what I don't know.
The first question is can Hazel win us a Rose Bowl (that is the goal right?)? The answer from what we seen is a resounding no. Coming up on his final year of contract you are sitting at extend or fire! If you do neither the team will only regress because good talent/other teams recruiters are going to notice our coach is on the way out.
Its sunk cost because no matter what you do you can't get that money back. Sure he is the more economic choice because even though we don't get the money back we don't have to pay someone else. But if you are the AD and have any type of brain you are already looking for his replacement. If we can grab our #1 or #2 guy then we go for it. I don't want to fire Hazel and grab another Danny Hope. So if we hire someone else it needs to be an all in from the athletic side. In all honesty, If I had the dollars and the power I'd contact Butch Davis and Charlie Weis, if we could get them on board as HC and OC respectively. I would fire Hazel and Shoop. I would put a stipulation in the contract that Butch gets % of the money from increased ticket sales.
There is probably $1MM/game ~$8MM/season of money being left on the table due to poor ticket sales. At $50/ticket we would only need to average 6k more ticket sales to break even. I'd really like to see real attendance numbers to get a better idea of what we can expect next year.
The time to fire shoop was last season, unless we are willing to extend hazel we aren't going to have any OC worth a damn interested in a job with a lame duck HC on the hottest seat in the nation. Look at UoI with Zook for reference.
Found this on the internet. Looks like Hazell's contract is longer than I thought. This being the case I doubt Hazell gets fired after this season.
Signed through: Dec. 31, 2018.
If he's fired: Hazell is paid the money he would have earned through the unexpired part of the contract, except bonuses.
That means he receives his base salary, supplemental compensation (for media and public appearances) and "supplemental retirement contributions." Here are examples of the potential payments.
• Jan. 1, 2015: $8,700,000.
• Jan. 1, 2016: $6,600,000.
• Jan. 1, 2017: $4,450,000.
• Jan. 1, 2018: $2,250,000
Signed through: Dec. 31, 2018.
If he's fired: Hazell is paid the money he would have earned through the unexpired part of the contract, except bonuses.
That means he receives his base salary, supplemental compensation (for media and public appearances) and "supplemental retirement contributions." Here are examples of the potential payments.
• Jan. 1, 2015: $8,700,000.
• Jan. 1, 2016: $6,600,000.
• Jan. 1, 2017: $4,450,000.
• Jan. 1, 2018: $2,250,000
RE: 2016 2x salaries. Give him the finger, DON'T PAY. If I hired a contractor to build a house and got a Hazell like shit show of a house I'd be in court for damages! Somebody lied to someone in the VETTING process to get this shitshow and that gentlemen is fraud. I'm sure a good law firm could go over everything submitted regarding the hire and find a reason to get out of the contract and the buy out. It would be worth at least 20k to have a firm go through it so that it might be on the table. If they do find something even questionable that might be enough to negotiate the buy out down. Seriously most Krannert first years would know to do that. Maybe not MB, but he's not Krannert material in my opinion for what that's worth.
Here's the elephant in the room....Purdue has NEVER fired a football coach after only 3 years. If they would fire hazell after 3 years, the publicity of firing the 1st African-American coach would be terrible. Look at ND, not giving Willingham the 5 years that every other coach got was the story, not his record. I think they'll give hazell another year,regardless how this year plays out.
Noticed damn near everyone talks on here about how "likable" CDH is.... remember he is being paid supplemental compensation (for media and public appearances) he's being paid to be outgoing, friendly, and likable! That is the only part of his job he is doing right and deserves compensation for.
Probably right and I still think there is a memo to Burke from either President's office and or the BOT make an affirmative action hire because the school was not "diverse" enough. Why would Burke gift this guy an unearned signing bonus in the form of the buy out put into the contract?
From today's Coacheshotseat.com
3. Darrell Hazell, Purdue – We here at Coaches Hot Seat fully expected Darrell Hazell’s Boilermakers to beat Virginia Tech at home on Saturday but instead the Hokies delivered a 51 – 24 beatdown of Purdue and now the 2015 season could turn into a Complete Freaking Disaster for Hazell with a very good Bowling Green team coming to town this coming Saturday.
A loss to Bowling Green and Purdue will start the season at…
1 – 3
…with 8 Big Ten games left to be played starting with a game at Michigan State on October 3 and for the life of us we believe if you can’t beat Virginia Tech or Bowling Green how in the Hell will Purdue win another game this season!
Oh, Darrell Hazell’s win/loss records in his third season at Purdue:
Overall: 5 – 22
Big Ten: 1 – 15
That’s BAD with a capital B!
END QUOTE
MB should start the search process now. His lack of preparation last time is what put Purdue in the position it's in now.
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I know you are right. I would not doubt that Mitch is looking at the position of Secretary of Education and won't do anything to screw that up.
If we lose out or even only win 2 more, Ross Ade will look pretty bad with just the staff' & player's families, girlfriends, and the band there. That will kill recruiting. Maybe MB can get Cricket Wireless to sponsor the stadium? Cricket Stadium would be quite fitting. Just looked on EBAY, the only Purdue FB tix with actual bids on them are for away games! The prices for Ross Ade tix are damn cheap and NO BIDS. I wonder how much this shit show will cost in lost gameday revenues?
Since we are on page two let me post this again. Expect Hazell back next season.
Signed through: Dec. 31, 2018.
If he's fired: Hazell is paid the money he would have earned through the unexpired part of the contract, except bonuses.
That means he receives his base salary, supplemental compensation (for media and public appearances) and "supplemental retirement contributions." Here are examples of the potential payments.
• Jan. 1, 2015: $8,700,000.
• Jan. 1, 2016: $6,600,000.
• Jan. 1, 2017: $4,450,000.
• Jan. 1, 2018: $2,250,000
Signed through: Dec. 31, 2018.
If he's fired: Hazell is paid the money he would have earned through the unexpired part of the contract, except bonuses.
That means he receives his base salary, supplemental compensation (for media and public appearances) and "supplemental retirement contributions." Here are examples of the potential payments.
• Jan. 1, 2015: $8,700,000.
• Jan. 1, 2016: $6,600,000.
• Jan. 1, 2017: $4,450,000.
• Jan. 1, 2018: $2,250,000
If this contract was inked in W. Laf I'd take it to court. Even without fraud in the inducement, Id' argue unjust enrichment, lack of consideration, and a duty to mitigate damages as a reason not to pay a buyout. Hell I'd even sue Tressel for the BS endorsement. This guy may have been fine as some kind of receivers coach or something but clearly is not HC material. MB is too much of a wuss to hire a lawyer. If an attorney did review this contact I'd sue them for malpractice, the university got nothing in return and was not protected. Hell for the $$ Burke laid out he could have gotten John Robinson. In 2010, Robinson returned to coaching as defensive coordinator at San Marcos High School in San Marcos, California. He had never before coached at the high school level. Bet he would have come to Purdue for at least a look.
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Maybe Hazell fudged a fact somewhere in his résumé or other documents, a la George o Leary.
That's all it would take to get out of the contract and hence the buyout! If there is something, Haz would damn well be smart enough to work something out and resign come Dec1st.
Now for the legal disclaimer. I am not licensed to practice law in Indiana, I am only licensed to practice law in the State of Montana, The United States District of Montana, and the United States Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit. Purdue University is not a client of mine nor do I expect to represent them.
If I'm not pissing someone off I'm not worth my pay. Are you shocked at the idea of me suggesting there is a way out of the buyout? Corporate America does worse everyday to workers who actually did their jobs well and who are deserving of pensions. Still pretexts are made to fire men shortly before they vest their retirements. I know of no other line of work other than academically related employment where complete incompetence and inability to perform is awarded with the kind of payoff in CDH's contract. Even CEO's with golden parachutes have some performance benchmarks to meet before getting the really big bucks.
If Purdue doesn't win anymore games this year, which is probable, and Hazell isn't let go, they better cut season ticket prices to $100 for the season, or the stands will be bare. I for one won't buy any!
No I represent people who make Forbes 400. Second all general cannons of contract law apply in "sports contracts." Not my fault it appears like the terms of CDH's contract were drawn up by an ISU/ Ball State / IU law grad.
You clearly have no idea just how favorable these contracts are to coaches. Schools don't have any choice when they do these contracts. The next guy wants what the last coaching free agent got. The terms of CDH's contract as far as buyouts and structure are no different than other coaches hired in the same cycle.
Find me a coach hired in the last 3 years that doesn't have a massive buyout!
I don't follow what other people do so much but what about the guy who took over at Illinois? He gets a bump in pay and this season for them to decide if he stays HC. No massive buyout there.
you don't see how this is a massive outlier?
He's doing them quite a favor and so are they for him.
Since 1910, Purdue has not had this poor of a Record. Only O'Donnel had a poor record in conference in 1916 / 1917. O'Donnell was given 2 years and replaced.
If Purdue was unprepared to hold any coach accountable for his record simply because of his race then Purdue will get exactly what it earns. Fans, alumni and Students don't give a rats rear what the racial origin of the coach.
So what decent coach will want to come to Purdue if we sued our last coach to avoid paying his buyout?
Let's not let logic get in the way of legal Larry's axe grinding here!
I also agree that it will be tough for anybody to pull the race card if we fire Hazell after 3 years having a single digit win total and a win percentage in the teens or twenties.
Any guy that can break both arms at the same time by tripping over the velvet area ropes inside a bank shouldn't be on a sideline where cords still were in use.
Regardless Hazell gets another year. He may have a condition that he bring in an new OC or DC or both. Problem then is who wants to come in and work for a lame duck staff.
Hazell had no really body of work to go off of. 2 years at Kent with one very good season, one average to below average season. KSU teams since have been bad leaving me to believe he left a bare cupboard at Kent.
I am confident in saying DH like the previous DH was the wrong guy. I do not want him fired though because I do not want Morgan Burke to pick the next coach. I know by law of averages he is due to bring in the right guy, but no, I don't want him to. MB is an ego guy and wants to be the face of the Athletic Department. He will not like anyone who challenges his authority.
Neither ISU nor Ball State have law schools.
Also...upon further review...the term "canon" in the context of which I think you are referring, is spelled "canon" as opposed to "cannon."
Hopefully, for your sake, your "Forbes 400" clients do not pay attention to detail.
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Who was the idiot that signed this numskull to a 6 year deal. Did we just take Butch Jones contract and replace the names. GD how is Burke not fired. We should take that 8 million out of the AD pension.
6 year deal is the standard right now. Not too shocked by that. At least we didn't give him an extension after year 1 like Hope.
6 years fully guaranteed money? IDK I feel like for a 1 successful year MAC coach I'd only guarantee 4 years with a heavily incentivized year 5 and 6. So we would see 8 mill guaranteed year 1-4 then 5 and 6 no guarantee but something like 3.5-4 mill a year if still the coach week 1. This type of contract seems to be a better outcome If he is still here after 4 years he is probably at least a 7-8 convincing win coach so he deserves the boost in pay. If he is a spectacular coach then he can leave after 4 years without the cost with the drawback that if he sucks he can be gone after 3 to 4 years.
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