How many losses will it take

[RegionWarrior101]

6 years fully guaranteed money? IDK I feel like for a 1 successful year MAC coach I'd only guarantee 4 years with a heavily incentivized year 5 and 6. So we would see 8 mill guaranteed year 1-4 then 5 and 6 no guarantee but something like 3.5-4 mill a year if still the coach week 1. This type of contract seems to be a better outcome If he is still here after 4 years he is probably at least a 7-8 convincing win coach so he deserves the boost in pay. If he is a spectacular coach then he can leave after 4 years without the cost with the drawback that if he sucks he can be gone after 3 to 4 years.

Was it a front loaded 6 year deal? I know the buyout is less and less after each year. For recruiting purposes the 6 year deal makes sense. Also need to cover your back end in the event Darrell Hazell was more of a Kevin Sumlin and could bolt for somewhere else. Of course no one wants him and once he is done here he will go NFL or back to an elite program as an assistant and a title like "Associate Head Coach." He won't be a coordinator because he has never called a play.

 

[Statey]

RE: 2016 2x salaries. Give him the finger, DON'T PAY. If I hired a contractor to build a house and got a Hazell like shit show of a house I'd be in court for damages! Somebody lied to someone in the VETTING process to get this shitshow and that gentlemen is fraud. I'm sure a good law firm could go over everything submitted regarding the hire and find a reason to get out of the contract and the buy out. It would be worth at least 20k to have a firm go through it so that it might be on the table. If they do find something even questionable that might be enough to negotiate the buy out down. Seriously most Krannert first years would know to do that. Maybe not MB, but he's not Krannert material in my opinion for what that's worth.

I can appreciate the frustration... the product on the field is absolutely awful. I'm not sure if you're more upset or more serious with the suggestion above, but I'd give it about a 1% chance even the best contract lawyers in the business could get this agreement terminated - and I do mean straight terminated/annulled - without repercussion to Purdue.

Sure, if Hazell were willing to entertain the idea of early buyout to move on elsewhere, he could negotiate that. Supposing he could get a job of roughly equal pay elsewhere, he could kind of get 2 paychecks at once by doing this. But that's not the same thing as what you're suggesting with "giving him the finger" and turning off the electronic deposits of his paycheck.

Back to your point though, Hazell is paid to do a lot of things, but I'd be shocked if the phrase "winning games" shows up in the job description; no coach (or coach's attorney, rather) is likely to allow that to happen. He's paid to do a lot of things that should lead to winning, but it would be virtually impossible - IMO - to have a judge find in Purdue's favor if they were to just stop paying him because his W/L record isn't what Purdue hoped for. I think the notion of DH being a liar or fraudulent in his job interview is kind of silly, but again, not sure if you're truly serious or just frustrated... the latter is clearly understandable.

 

[boiler17]

The current staff is not the answer

Dont worry, it was a completely unpredictable result.

No way at all one could have seen this coming...

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

how a coach can stay , when its the worst 3 years ever , and the school is considered a cream puff by other schools , is beyond me

 

[TopSecretBoiler]

Probably right and I still think there is a memo to Burke from either President's office and or the BOT make an affirmative action hire because the school was not "diverse" enough. Why would Burke gift this guy an unearned signing bonus in the form of the buy out put into the contract?

Oh, Darrell Hazell’s win/loss records in his third season at Purdue:

Overall: 5 – 22

Big Ten: 1 – 15

That’s BAD with a capital B!

END QUOTE

MB should start the search process now. His lack of preparation last time is what put Purdue in the position it's in now.

 

[boiler17]

how a coach can stay , when its the worst 3 years ever , and the school is considered a cream puff by other schools , is beyond me

Agree. People make too much of the buyout, and the idea a coach wouldnt want to come here. Now, getting Burke to identify that coach is something to be concerned about.

That said, I would still like to see them break ground on player facilities and demonstrate commitment to the program before any changes are made.

 

[PU52Chevy]

For the record...I liked Hope......I like Hazell.....I think he is here two more years no matter what happens this year......

I could see Shoop going at the end of the year if not before.....

I wish the fans would just be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

Support who we have and be positive....until then all of you negative people are on ignore.

Boiler Up...let's beat Bowling Green!

 

[boiler17]

I wish the fans would just be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

Totally respect the point. I dont think supporting the current staff and admin is being part of the solution.

 

[AZboiler]

Agree. People make too much of the buyout, and the idea a coach wouldnt want to come here. Now, getting Burke to identify that coach is something to be concerned about.

That said, I would still like to see them break ground on player facilities and demonstrate commitment to the program before any changes are made.

To think that this could have all been avoided had DH / MB simply won a few football games.

 

[boiler17]

To think that this could have all been avoided had DH / MB simply won a few football games.

DH = Danny Hope, and we wouldnt have hired Hazell? I guess. I personally think the writing was all over the wall for this when we werent investing more in facilities and assistants from 04 on.

 

[RegionWarrior101]

To think that this could have all been avoided had DH / MB simply won a few football games.

As much as Hope is scapegoated, he probably got one year too long. But what is odd is his bad and the current bad are totally different. I thought Danny Hope football, getting shutout by Wisconsin, beating a few bad teams (Iowa, Illinois, IU) to go to a bad bowl was bad. Darrell Hazell getting beat and looking inept and boring in the process may be worse. Hope also was good for the occasional upset. We were high fiving a year ago for only losing to MSU by 14 at home. And really it was some meaningless scores to make it that close.

 

[gelesen]

Here's the elephant in the room....Purdue has NEVER fired a football coach after only 3 years. If they would fire hazell after 3 years, the publicity of firing the 1st African-American coach would be terrible. Look at ND, not giving Willingham the 5 years that every other coach got was the story, not his record. I think they'll give hazell another year,regardless how this year plays out.

Not if you replace him with Dino Babers.......

 

[banshee90]

Was it a front loaded 6 year deal? I know the buyout is less and less after each year. For recruiting purposes the 6 year deal makes sense. Also need to cover your back end in the event Darrell Hazell was more of a Kevin Sumlin and could bolt for somewhere else. Of course no one wants him and once he is done here he will go NFL or back to an elite program as an assistant and a title like "Associate Head Coach." He won't be a coordinator because he has never called a play.

I am not too worried about the bolting because honestly if the coach does well enough in the first 3 years he would get an extension

http://archive.indystar.com/assets/pdf/BG1981731215.PDF

IANAL can someone tell me what this contract is saying? What is fixed compensation?

 

[Summy1]

I think a 6 year contract is too long to have given Hazell. What has he shown, he had one big year in Kent State. I think they jumped the gun with this guy. Now they have to pay for it with his huge contract buyouts.
Hazell is getting desperate now. He is making a change at QB so early in the season. Its like groundhog day.

 

[izakman]

I don't understand why there are performance clauses. Or at lease some of the pay tied to winning.

 

[izakman]

I think they jumped the gun with this guy. Now they have to pay for it with his huge contract buyouts.

I agree. I think they fired Hope, thought they could get one of their choice candidates and when those took a better path, we got nervous and basically threw a lame-duck pass.

 

[Summy1]

I agree. I think they fired Hope, thought they could get one of their choice candidates and when those took a better path, we got nervous and basically threw a lame-duck pass.

Do we know for sure that Hazell was not one of the top candidates for the job?

 

[BoilerBulldog]

Do we know for sure that Hazell was not one of the top candidates for the job?

I believe he was 3rd, according to reports. Although it should be noted his hire was overwhelmingly positively reacted to on this board.

 

[izakman]

I believe he was 3rd, according to reports. Although it should be noted his hire was overwhelmingly positively reacted to on this board.

Not by me. I wasn't against him. I would take success no matter where it comes from. I was and am more of a Wait-And-See.

 

[lbodel]

Here's the elephant in the room....Purdue has NEVER fired a football coach after only 3 years. If they would fire hazell after 3 years, the publicity of firing the 1st African-American coach would be terrible. Look at ND, not giving Willingham the 5 years that every other coach got was the story, not his record. I think they'll give hazell another year,regardless how this year plays out.

I don't agree with that one bit. Hazell has won 5 games and he's in his 3rd year.

Willingham led ND to bowl games 2 of the 3 years and the other year he had 5 wins. He was 21-15 as a head coach at ND.

Those 2 situations are not comparable.

And if you think it is uncommon to fire coaches after 3 years, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[lbodel]

Wow. The one time Burke isn't cheap he screwed the pooch.

One of the first things I said about the hire was giving him too long of a contract. A 6 year contract is long. Dave Doeren, in the same year, was not only hired at a lower cost at NC State, he also had a shorter contract.

Whether or not people wanted Doeren at Purdue (many did), he was very similar to Hazell in terms of experience and success (if not a bit better) and considered a bit more 'lucrative' as a candidate. The fact that we paid more and gave a longer contract isn't too reassuring and probably has a bit to do with some of the 'first choices' going elsewhere.

 

[PaBoiler78]

One of the first things I said about the hire was giving him too long of a contract. A 6 year contract is long. Dave Doeren, in the same year, was not only hired at a lower cost at NC State, he also had a shorter contract.

Whether or not people wanted Doeren at Purdue (many did), he was very similar to Hazell in terms of experience and success (if not a bit better) and considered a bit more 'lucrative' as a candidate. The fact that we paid more and gave a longer contract isn't too reassuring and probably has a bit to do with some of the 'first choices' going elsewhere.

I wanted Doeren bigtime back then, with Dykes being a close 2nd.

 

[Summy1]

I agree, Hazell's contract was too many years. I wish it wasn't as long. Now Purdue is paying for it by not being able to fire him because they would owe him too much money with his buyout.

 

[pboiler18]

I agree, Hazell's contract was too many years. I wish it wasn't as long. Now Purdue is paying for it by not being able to fire him because they would owe him too much money with his buyout.

IF he wins 3 or less games this year, there's a real chance he gets let go.

If not, he won't have the same batch of assistants here next year....for better or worse.

 

[Summy1]

IF he wins 3 or less games this year, there's a real chance he gets let go.

If not, he won't have the same batch of assistants here next year....for better or worse.

Which remaining games will Purdue win?

Bowling Green: they score too many points for us to beat them
Minn.: we may be able to beat them but who knows
Illinois and IU: would hope we would win of these two but it won't be easy

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

Unless Blough lights it up, Purdue won't beat anyone, unless they get a gift . Feel bad for the players

 

[lbodel]

Unless Blough lights it up, Purdue won't beat anyone, unless they get a gift . Feel bad for the players

Why? Most of the current players chose to come to Purdue to play for these coaches. They should feel lucky to be playing on such a big level considering many of them didn't have offers to be at other Big Ten schools.

And I certainly don't feel sorry for the ones that have been arrested.

And quite frankly, the effort displayed in some games over the past couple years was embarrassing. Blame it all you want on coaches, but our players haven't exactly been inspiring.

 

[pu1985]

Why? Most of the current players chose to come to Purdue to play for these coaches. They should feel lucky to be playing on such a big level considering many of them didn't have offers to be at other Big Ten schools.

And I certainly don't feel sorry for the ones that have been arrested.

And quite frankly, the effort displayed in some games over the past couple years was embarrassing. Blame it all you want on coaches, but our players haven't exactly been inspiring.

They are a reflection of their leadership. Coaches get paid handsomely to mold a team. The failure is completely on this staff.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

They are a reflection of their leadership. Coaches get paid handsomely to mold a team. The failure is completely on this staff.

Good post! I agree completely

 

[rgarlitz]

I agree that the Hazell hire was popular back in late 2012. I was very excited and bought into the whole thing 100%.
That's one reason why I'm not very vocal about getting rid of Haze. I now think it was a mistake to hire him, but I don't know what the answer is.

 

[Heiner]

I agree that the Hazell hire was popular back in late 2012. I was very excited and bought into the whole thing 100%.
That's one reason why I'm not very vocal about getting rid of Haze. I now think it was a mistake to hire him, but I don't know what the answer is.

This. And that's what makes this so damn frustrating. I do know that we need a better OC to get things moving in the right direction. Keep Hudson, boot Shoop and lets see what happens.

 

[AZboiler]

At this point, I remember an old management joke about 3 envelopes. Save the typing - Blame you predecessor, Reorganize, make 3 envelopes for your successor.
So far, Purdue has only blamed the Predecessor… 2 more to go.

 

[FearTheTrain]

That's one reason why I'm not very vocal about getting rid of Haze. I now think it was a mistake to hire him, but I don't know what the answer is.[/QUOTE]

I think you're spot on here. Make a list of what coaches can turn this program into a winner. Now cross off everyone on that list who would take the job this offseason.

I don't think Dino Babers is the answer, but use him as an example. Why would he come here, knowing all the limitations our program has, when the last coach got fired after three seasons? If he is a good coach, he knows he can continue success at BG and have much better options down the road.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

This. And that's what makes this so damn frustrating. I do know that we need a better OC to get things moving in the right direction. Keep Hudson, boot Shoop and lets see what happens.

Agreed. As long as we can win a couple of games, I'm OK keeping Hazell but with a new OC. Dumping the head coach craters the next recruiting class and would almost certainly mean another tough couple of years as the new coach rebuilds. And that assumes we pick someone better, which isn't a guarantee.

 

[pu1985]

This. And that's what makes this so damn frustrating. I do know that we need a better OC to get things moving in the right direction. Keep Hudson, boot Shoop and lets see what happens.

Problem is, what decent OC is going to come here knowing DH is on the hot seat big time.
I think your only choice at this point is keep the entire dung heap or take a leap and cut the cord with the entire staff - Burke Included

 

[Summy1]

I for one would be interesting in seeing Dino Babers at Purdue. Look at what he has done at BG. They are one of the better offenses in college football. You wonder if he was hired by Purdue if he could make us a clone of Baylor? I for one would take that.

 

[lbodel]

Agreed. As long as we can win a couple of games, I'm OK keeping Hazell but with a new OC. Dumping the head coach craters the next recruiting class and would almost certainly mean another tough couple of years as the new coach rebuilds. And that assumes we pick someone better, which isn't a guarantee.

I don't get this reasoning. It bothers me MORE that Hazell has actually kept Shoop this long more so than Shoop being OC still.

Hazell should have fired him after last season - no questions asked. It is SHOCKING to me that our coaching staff has remained largely in tact, especially after year 2.

That is a BIG RED FLAG in terms of Hazell's status as a head coach.

 

[lbodel]

I agree that the Hazell hire was popular back in late 2012. I was very excited and bought into the whole thing 100%.
That's one reason why I'm not very vocal about getting rid of Haze. I now think it was a mistake to hire him, but I don't know what the answer is.

Honestly, Hazell's hire was met with decent reception, but it certainly did not "generate excitement" or a "buzz" around the program. Generating excitement around a program involves attendance increases, recruiting bumps, etc. - VISIBLE improvements. What visible improvements have we seen in 2.5 years? Very little.

Hazell's first year had a bit of an attendance bump - but it also had Notre Dame, Ohio State and Nebraska at home - games that would near a sell out no matter who a coach was or how good Purdue was. And attendance had spiraled down towards the end of the season. In Matt Painter's first year, attendance actually increased through the year because they busted their butts. Purdue actually sold out the last game of the season as a last place team against Minnesota (who certainly didn't bring fans). And aside from playing hard, Purdue's recruiting class was excellent and there was excitement for the future.

We certainly know how attendance has gone since the initial bump for football.

Recruiting has been stagnant and no better than when Hope was here.

 

[Summy1]

I think there was excitement around the program when Hazell was hired because people were glad to see Hope go.

 

[Summy1]

I like Dino Barbers. The guy knows how to put together an offense.