Horrific recruiting in the true senior and Junior class

[pboiler18]

if brohm was so invested in AOC’s development why did he start plummer at the beginning of 2021?

Brohm did recruit good players. In 2019… subsequent classes have been about half as good. That affects the next coach. How do you not understand this? Nat100 had to have said this to you many times before on3 started up

The talent level isn’t good enough for you, it’s clearly not good enough for this coach to win…but it was good enough for the last coach.

This issue is this…Purdue isnt EVER going to get the talent that the top half of the conference gets. NIL didn’t change that. Brohm leaving didn’t change that. Walters coming don’t change that. Purdue is what it is. That said, Purdue is an above average team when we have decent talent and good coaching. That’s all we ask for. 3 wins with this schedule is pathetic. Fresno, VT and Syracuse isn’t a tough OOC schedule. The Michigan and OSU games were write offs…yet we fell flat on our faces vs some pretty average teams all year long. It’s not ALL talent. It doesn’t take talent to understand assignments, play disciplined and get lined up correctly. I’ll let you figure out what controls that variable…

The NW game was the season in a nutshell, no matter the talent level on the field we’ve had chances to win games and screwed them away…many times with poor personnel or playcalling decisions by the staff.

Walters may be a good coach eventually but his style doesn’t work here. Less with more has never been a winning strategy at Purdue. It’s always been an offensive minded coach that schemes his way to a good offense that’s been successful here…I don’t understand why we tried to break the mold. It will only break the program!

 

[*Shockerrr*]

But but but…17 wins in 2 years.

“If it weren’t for those guys Brohm recruited, we’d have been awful” is quite the argument.

No argument just noticeable facts and examples a typical fan like me can see 🤷🏼‍♂️ I’m not mad at Brohm for leaving…I’m mad at the condition he left the roster in! Walters inherited a depleted roster, simple as that!

 

[Wolegib]

As I look back, I see Purdue signing a lot of 4 star QBs. Their signing really helped raise our overall recruiting rating. But very few of them contributed to the success of our team. Blough was good. Sindelar had his moments. But the rest were total busts. I’m looking at their accomplishments after they left and they are still busts. Plummer is starting at Louisville and he played elsewhere but he is not close to the hype he had coming out of high school. The same is true for every other high rated QB that has come to Purdue.


What I was surprised at Brohm was that he could recruit talented receivers but he had a very hard time recruiting QBs for what was obviously a pass happy team.

This is what leads me to emphasizing we should give a higher priority to recruiting elite offensive linemen. I look at other top 25 teams and I look at teams like USC! USC has a long reputation for outstanding QBs. However the majority of them despite their success in college turned out to be duds in the NFL. The same is true at OSU and Alabama. QBs who are always throwing on the run are usually not great QBs. But QBs who have 9 seconds to throw have the time to make great plays.

Another reason I mention placing a priority on recruiting elite offensive linemen is that The state of Indiana has lots of them. The problem is they are always going somewhere else like ND, Iowa, Michigan, OSU, UW, IU and other powerful schools. If Purdue can out recruit these teams for WRs and DBs and QBs, they should also be able to outrecruit those same teams for offensive linemen! It’s sad when I look back over the past 10 years and see Purdue being outrecruited for offensive linemen by both IU and Iowa. I can sort of understand and accept Iowa. But it is very upsetting to see IU with better linemen.

That is why I say. Purdue needs to develop those instate pipelines. There is a lot of talent at Indiana high schools. If we can recruit a 4 star DB and a 4 star QB, surely we can recruit a 4 star offensive lineman!

I’m not saying it will be easy! It’s called the buddy system. Recruit a DB and recruit his buddy! Make friends with high school coaches. And have them influence their players!

Something that hasn’t been talked about much. Players make the best recruiters. George K signed early. And after he signed, he was constantly in contact with his friends to come to Purdue. A lot of the elite recruits that came to Purdue in his class were directly related to George k recruiting them rather than Brohm’s staff. Without George’s efforts, that class would have been less than mediocre. We look at an overall class ranking and we don’t realize how much George K contributed to it!

 

[BCfanatic2020]

The talent level isn’t good enough for you, it’s clearly not good enough for this coach to win…but it was good enough for the last coach.

This issue is this…Purdue isnt EVER going to get the talent that the top half of the conference gets. NIL didn’t change that. Brohm leaving didn’t change that. Walters coming don’t change that. Purdue is what it is. That said, Purdue is an above average team when we have decent talent and good coaching. That’s all we ask for. 3 wins with this schedule is pathetic. Fresno, VT and Syracuse isn’t a tough OOC schedule. The Michigan and OSU games were write offs…yet we fell flat on our faces vs some pretty average teams all year long. It’s not ALL talent. It doesn’t take talent to understand assignments, play disciplined and get lined up correctly. I’ll let you figure out what controls that variable…

The NW game was the season in a nutshell, no matter the talent level on the field we’ve had chances to win games and screwed them away…many times with poor personnel or playcalling decisions by the staff.

Walters may be a good coach eventually but his style doesn’t work here. Less with more has never been a winning strategy at Purdue. It’s always been an offensive minded coach that schemes his way to a good offense that’s been successful here…I don’t understand why we tried to break the mold. It will only break the program!

The 2019 class and Oconnell won those games. I’ve never once said brohm didn’t recruit well in 2019. That class is 5th year seniors and most of those guys are gone. When brohm won, they were true juniors and seniors.

Walters is about to bring in the first class in the range of that class since that class. That’s going to pay in 2025.

If the 2019 class was juniors, yeah, I’d be expecting big things. Hell, if we had Aidan Oconnell instead of card and nothing else changed, Purdue probably wins 6. Again, the guy brohm consistently though was worse than plummer.

I’m not expecting the talent of the big boys. Classes like 2019 and being neutral or slight winners in the portal.

If Walters looks like this in year 2 I’ll call it what it is. I don’t think he will. I think slight turn next year and that we can win 7 in 2025. And with the new conference that would be like winning 8-9 in Brohm’s era

 

[pboiler18]

The 2019 class and Oconnell won those games. I’ve never once said brohm didn’t recruit well in 2019. That class is 5th year seniors and most of those guys are gone. When brohm won, they were true juniors and seniors.

Walters is about to bring in the first class in the range of that class since that class. That’s going to pay in 2025.

If the 2019 class was juniors, yeah, I’d be expecting big things. Hell, if we had Aidan Oconnell instead of card and nothing else changed, Purdue probably wins 6. Again, the guy brohm consistently though was worse than plummer.

I’m not expecting the talent of the big boys. Classes like 2019 and being neutral or slight winners in the portal.

If Walters looks like this in year 2 I’ll call it what it is. I don’t think he will. I think slight turn next year and that we can win 7 in 2025. And with the new conference that would be like winning 8-9 in Brohm’s era

I’d bet Walters wins 4 in 24 and 5 in 25 and gets fired. As he should!

 

[Beorik]

That's part of it too. One key player being really good can have outsized importance, particularly at QB.

Put AOC on this team, make no other changes at all, and we beat Fresno State, we beat Iowa, we beat NWestern. One player changes it from 3 wins to 6 and we go on to IU (which we'd also beat) for 7.

AOC elevated the players around him, the line, the receivers, the RBs. He extended drives which kept the defense fresher. Card just isn't nearly as good, at least not yet (although I don't think he has it to ever be).

If I were Walters, I wouldn't put all my eggs in the Card basket. I'd be looking for competition for next season.

I would argue that you put Brohm on this team and no other changes and we also win all those games.

 

[qazplm]

I would argue that you put Brohm on this team and no other changes and we also win all those games.

I don't think so. We probably win more but not all. Card isn't even Plummer level and Brohm has to go away from Plummer to win with a more talented team than what we have now.

Regardless, it would be insane to expect a first time ever head coach to perform better than or even as good as a guy who's been a head coach on now his third team.

Brohm left. We didn't push him out. We didn't low-ball him. We threw the bank at him and he said nah. So comparing Walters to Brohm at this point is pretty meaningless to me.

 

[Beorik]

I don't think so. We probably win more but not all. Card isn't even Plummer level and Brohm has to go away from Plummer to win with a more talented team than what we have now.

Regardless, it would be insane to expect a first time ever head coach to perform better than or even as good as a guy who's been a head coach on now his third team.

Brohm left. We didn't push him out. We didn't low-ball him. We threw the bank at him and he said nah. So comparing Walters to Brohm at this point is pretty meaningless to me.

I didn’t expect him to perform as well. I just get tired of the excuses for performing poorly. Brohm is 100% in a bowl game with our current roster. Walters wins 3 games and everyone seems to want to say he doesn’t have the talent to get to a bowl.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

I’d bet Walters wins 4 in 24 and 5 in 25 and gets fired. As he should!

Be honest. Did you ever give a chance? Was there ever a time when you didn’t hate it

 

[pboiler18]

Be honest. Did you ever give a chance? Was there ever a time when you didn’t hate it

Hate us this year? No. It’s been pretty putrid.

 

[Bippus33]

The talent level isn’t good enough for you, it’s clearly not good enough for this coach to win…but it was good enough for the last coach.

This issue is this…Purdue isnt EVER going to get the talent that the top half of the conference gets. NIL didn’t change that. Brohm leaving didn’t change that. Walters coming don’t change that. Purdue is what it is. That said, Purdue is an above average team when we have decent talent and good coaching. That’s all we ask for. 3 wins with this schedule is pathetic. Fresno, VT and Syracuse isn’t a tough OOC schedule. The Michigan and OSU games were write offs…yet we fell flat on our faces vs some pretty average teams all year long. It’s not ALL talent. It doesn’t take talent to understand assignments, play disciplined and get lined up correctly. I’ll let you figure out what controls that variable…

The NW game was the season in a nutshell, no matter the talent level on the field we’ve had chances to win games and screwed them away…many times with poor personnel or playcalling decisions by the staff.

Walters may be a good coach eventually but his style doesn’t work here. Less with more has never been a winning strategy at Purdue. It’s always been an offensive minded coach that schemes his way to a good offense that’s been successful here…I don’t understand why we tried to break the mold. It will only break the program!

Hey stud, back off of the facts or he will call you a dumb ass......

 

[Bippus33]

I didn’t expect him to perform as well. I just get tired of the excuses for performing poorly. Brohm is 100% in a bowl game with our current roster. Walters wins 3 games and everyone seems to want to say he doesn’t have the talent to get to a bowl.

He's growing,learning as he goes. NEEDS HIS OWN guys.....Quit picnicking on CRW! Dumb @ss! tic

 

[BCfanatic2020]

He's growing,learning as he goes. NEEDS HIS OWN guys.....Quit picnicking on CRW! Dumb @ss! tic

Hitting that blackout Wednesday sauce

 

[z_one]

I didn’t expect him to perform as well. I just get tired of the excuses for performing poorly. Brohm is 100% in a bowl game with our current roster. Walters wins 3 games and everyone seems to want to say he doesn’t have the talent to get to a bowl.

Don't you have the loosiers to pull for this weekend?

 

[pboiler18]

Don't you have the loosiers to pull for this weekend?

They don’t need any extra support. They’ll get plenty of help from the Purdue staff!

 

[BCfanatic2020]

They don’t need any extra support. They’ll get plenty of help from the Purdue staff!

I’ve literally never seen anyone more pro or anti Purdue for one coach or QB be so much the opposite for the other. In 20 years of posting.

You are all over the coaches when we are losing, but when we are winning, it’s not like I see you posting just as frequently that you loved the play by Brevard there or what a great job by Jenkins shedding the block. You go mostly quiet.

I thought Dale Williams was bullshit. But if Eric Miller swung over and made a big block I was the first one to give him all the credit in the world

 

[pboiler18]

I’ve literally never seen anyone more pro or anti Purdue for one coach or QB be so much the opposite for the other. In 20 years of posting.

You are all over the coaches when we are losing, but when we are winning, it’s not like I see you posting just as frequently that you loved the play by Brevard there or what a great job by Jenkins shedding the block. You go mostly quiet.

I thought Dale Williams was bullshit. But if Eric Miller swung over and made a big block I was the first one to give him all the credit in the world

3-8. Hard to be positive about the ups when there are vastly more downs.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

3-8. Hard to be positive about the ups when there are vastly more downs.

But again when Purdue is winning I rarely see you giving massive credit to individual players

 

[pboiler18]

I also think the premise of this thread is bullshit. With the transfer portal it’s not the 2000s, which you’re seemingly stuck in and can only mention.

If guys don’t work out in your class you can always fill in. With that, you’re going to have depth pieces leave when they feel they can play sooner elsewhere.

The failure this year rests firmly on Walters and not Brohm.

This Purdue team won’t get more talented. Our on the field results haven’t predicated us getting more talent than Purdue coaches usually do. If he can’t win now, he’s not going to ever win here. Hope took a dive when Tillers talent left. Same thing will happen here with Walters. So buckle up..it’s going to get worse!

 

[pboiler18]

But again when Purdue is winning I rarely see you giving massive credit to individual players

Things I’ve said while you’ve been stroking others off on On3:

Mock is our best RB in 20 years
Jenkins and Scourton likely to land on first or 2nd team in conference
I think Brevard is a good player
Allen and Kane grossly missued (I didn’t think they are bad players)
Wilson is a good CB
Klare and Miller both have NFL potential
Kaltenberger should have always been in the game somewhere if healthy
Mbow and Moussa are young and good
I’ve always liked Burks
I thought Browne was decent for us last week until he was forced by our staff into some bad decisions

Again…I think there’s plenty of talent here. I’ve generally been positive about the players this year…just not about what the coaches have chosen to do with them.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Things I’ve said while you’ve been stroking others off on On3:

Mock is our best RB in 20 years
Jenkins and Scourton likely to land on first or 2nd team in conference
I think Brevard is a good player
Allen and Kane grossly missued (I didn’t think they are bad players)
Wilson is a good CB
Klare and Miller both have NFL potential
Kaltenberger should have always been in the game somewhere if healthy
Mbow and Moussa are young and good
I’ve always liked Burks
I thought Browne was decent for us last week until he was forced by our staff into some bad decisions

Again…I think there’s plenty of talent here. I’ve generally been positive about the players this year…just not about what the coaches have chosen to do with them.

I’m sure over the months. But in the Minnesota thread I saw you rip the coaches non stop and then as soon as Purdue started winning.. one compliment for Mockobee and radio silence. I’m here all week and all game long when we lose

 

[pboiler18]

I’m sure over the months. But in the Minnesota thread I saw you rip the coaches non stop and then as soon as Purdue started winning.. one compliment for Mockobee and radio silence. I’m here all week and all game long when we lose

You showed up like 2 weeks ago during a win and were MIA for most of the season.

What do we need to do to go back to that? If I tell you Inthink Walters is great, will you go back to On3?

 

[BCfanatic2020]

You showed up like 2 weeks ago during a win and were MIA for most of the season.

What do we need to do to go back to that? If I tell you Inthink Walters is great, will you go back to On3?

Got banned during the win for questioning why Brian, who constantly sung the virtues of 15 bowl practices for decades, suddenly stopped talking about it in light of Purdue’s horrific ooc schedule.

On3 definitely has the better product.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

You showed up like 2 weeks ago during a win and were MIA for most of the season.

What do we need to do to go back to that? If I tell you Inthink Walters is great, will you go back to On3?

Also I don’t think Walters has proven a single positive thing. All I want is to see him with his guys for even 1 year. If we got 2-10 And Bobinski fires him I’ll be fine with it.

People were still talking about hazell in year 6 of brohm lol.

 

[pboiler18]

Also I don’t think Walters has proven a single positive thing. All I want is to see him with his guys for even 1 year. If we got 2-10 And Bobinski fires him I’ll be fine with it.

People were still talking about hazell in year 6 of brohm lol.

Who were those people?

And do you really think Walters is going to bring in 3 CBs who will consistently win in man coverage? 2 LBs who are any good? Some DL depth? That’s what we need and I’m not holding my breath.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Who were those people?

And do you really think Walters is going to bring in 3 CBs who will consistently win in man coverage? 2 LBs who are any good? Some DL depth? That’s what we need and I’m not holding my breath.

I think koy Beasley and leontre Bradford are going to be ridiculously better than allen and Kane. Beasley right away, Bradford as the season goes on and into 2025. Kulp and Williams are nice recruits. I think brown with another year will be better. Wilson was very good he just got hurt.

Demeco Kennedy was coveted by brohm and bielema. Tom says he plays with violence and should be an upgrade over Nichols.

You’re going to have to give six figures to Scourton and Jenkins and Thienemann deserves it too. I think the defense will hit the ground next year looking like the best of what you’ve seen this year.

I genuinely believe that.

i think Purdue is going to need to pay Hudson card money for a good middle linebacker. They do that and they’ll be a top 40 defense next year. They rely on Yanni and ehhh

But Walters in his last interview said that donors have come through with big promises. If we get two OL (3 If Hartwig leaves) and a mlb who have done huge things at g5 or good things in p5, we will know that that’s true and Purdue will be in a position where it’s all on him and Harrell to produce

 

[pboiler18]

I think koy Beasley and leontre Bradford are going to be ridiculously better than allen and Kane. Beasley right away, Bradford as the season goes on and into 2025. Kulp and Williams are nice recruits. I think brown with another year will be better. Wilson was very good he just got hurt.

Demeco Kennedy was coveted by brohm and bielema. Tom says he plays with violence and should be an upgrade over Nichols.

You’re going to have to give six figures to Scourton and Jenkins and Thienemann deserves it too. I think the defense will hit the ground next year looking like the best of what you’ve seen this year.

I genuinely believe that.

i think Purdue is going to need to pay Hudson card money for a good middle linebacker. They do that and they’ll be a top 40 defense next year. They rely on Yanni and ehhh

But Walters in his last interview said that donors have come through with big promises. If we get two OL (3 If Hartwig leaves) and a mlb who have done huge things at g5 or good things in p5, we will know that that’s true and Purdue will be in a position where it’s all on him and Harrell to produce

Offense still sucks. Don’t see us improving on D next year

 

[BCfanatic2020]

Offense still sucks. Don’t see us improving on D next year

Here’s my starting lineup for us to be better

Card
Mockobee
Klare
Edrine
Burks (slot)
Transfer or tibbs makes a big step
Moussa (should be strong enough with one more year in the gym)
Great g5 or good p5 transfer
Hartwig or same as above
Mbow
Great g5 or good p5 transfer

Mba and decent transfer
Brevard and Omonode
Kennedy and decent transfer
Scourton
Beasley
Great g5 or good p5 transfer mlb
Kane and Bradford platoon
Jenkins
Steptoe and decent transfer Kulp challenges
Thienemann
Rogers and decent transfer Luke Williams challenges

We get that and Walters should be expected to win 6.

I already know you hate it and want him fired. Great

 

[Wolegib]

I said this once before. In order to rate a class or a coach, you need to compare them to their opponents rather than their past. Rather than talking about Hazell an Brohm you need to compare our team and our future to our future. The past is behind us. We made of few mistakes. Going forward how do we compare with Minn uw IU nw and other team? Are we going to better or worse than them? Walters had the same opportunity to recruit the same players they did. He seems to have done ok so far. If you out recruit a team and still lose then it’s the coach’s fault

 

[z_one]

They don’t need any extra support. They’ll get plenty of help from the Purdue staff!

Says you. Wow you are insufferably negative.

 

[qazplm]

I didn’t expect him to perform as well. I just get tired of the excuses for performing poorly. Brohm is 100% in a bowl game with our current roster. Walters wins 3 games and everyone seems to want to say he doesn’t have the talent to get to a bowl.

Again, no one came into this season thinking it was going to be easy to get six wins.

Now all of a sudden only getting, one hopes 4 instead of 6 is some massive disappointment. I remember people talking about how much we were losing even before he was hired. I remember how bad we looked in the bowl game. I remember how much folks were upset at the players leaving.

It's not that people think he's performing great it's simply the difference with some people understanding that the first season of a first time head coach with a dropoff in talent was always going to be a struggle and being willing to see what said coach can do with a year or two of experience and recruiting and others who somehow blame Walters for not being Brohm or accomplishing what Brohm could.

Again, yeah head coach who's been a head coach for three teams now with a set staff and an experience head start probably will do better than brand new head coach who was grabbed at the end of the season.

And yes talent IS a problem. Brohm PROBABLY gets a bowl game out of this team but definitely no guarantee. He didn't go to a bowl game every season he coaches here, and this would have been his toughest schedule with his weakest team. It doesn't matter though because he ain't here.

So saying the established guy does better than the new guy isn't the indictment of the latter you think it is.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

We probably win more but not all. Card isn't even Plummer level

And Blough and Sindelar weren’t that great until Brohm got here…

 

[BCfanatic2020]

And Blough and Sindelar weren’t that great until Brohm got here…

To be fair, Blough made a similar jump from the year before brohm to what Scourton did from last year

56-74

Scourton was 62 to 80.

 

[qazplm]

And Blough and Sindelar weren’t that great until Brohm got here…

And Plummer wasn't good enough on this team with Brohm.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

And Plummer wasn't good enough on this team with Brohm.

i will say one thing for Plummer, he was pretty tough to keep playing, even though most of the time he was running for his life , especially the Penn St game

 

[z_one]

i will say one thing for Plummer, he was pretty tough to keep playing, even though most of the time he was running for his life , especially the Penn St game

He was smart enough to get seasoned at Cal and then run home to Brohmy.

 

[BCfanatic2020]

i will say one thing for Plummer, he was pretty tough to keep playing, even though most of the time he was running for his life , especially the Penn St game

That will tend to happen when your linemen who play the most, in year THREE, are rated as follows per pff:

Player pff rating number of snaps
C Garvin 72.6 374
T Hermanns 64.9 893
G McCann 60.2 778
T Bramel 46.0 703
G stickford 52.6 509
G Criddle 51.7 364
C Beach 39.7 324

When you look at how sorry and self-checked Dale Williams was at coaching the OL, please consider that on the entire team, here are the players below Bramel’s 46.0.

Player pff snaps
Drew Biber 42.1 95
Zion Steptoe 40.9 52

That’s it… on the ENTIRE TEAM. When you last 4 listed above consider that they were all in that OC Brothers range. That’s why plummer was running for his life

After all of Dale Williams malfeasance left us with Jack shit, here is this years performance by the OL

Player pff snaps
G Nichols 69.4 754
G Grant 61.8 719
C Hartwig 70.1 567
T Moussa 53.0 565
T Mbow 70.3 446
T Kaltenberger 56.0 315
T Farrell 50.2 251

So it’s very much coaching that’s made for a line that would be good if there weren’t so many injuries.