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Homestead(FLoyer) vs Westfield(BSmith)...

BoilerAndy said:
At the same point in Carsen Edwards' career, no one knew how good he was going to be. He wasn't even recruited by the big schools in his home state. No one knows how good Braden Smith is going to be. Except maybe Painter, who signed both.
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False. He was offered by the best program in their state(Baylor).
 
johnboiler123 said:
False. He was offered by the best program in their state(Baylor).
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and Tx Tech, Houston, SMU as well as Rice, Tulsa, Vandy, Va Tech, and Fresno State.

He was a big-time scorer @ Atascocita (Houston metro area). I think size kept Texas and St. Louis from offers, which I'm sure they regret now. Wasn't the original target for CMP, but give him some credit for recognizing the ability.....and giving him the platform to make All-American and get a shot in the NBA.
 
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Purdue Grad in Texas said:
and Tx Tech, Houston, SMU as well as Rice, Tulsa, Vandy, Va Tech, and Fresno State.

He was a big-time scorer @ Atascocita (Houston metro area). I think size kept Texas and St. Louis from offers, which I'm sure they regret now. Wasn't the original target for CMP, but give him some credit for recognizing the ability.....and giving him the platform to make All-American and get a shot in the NBA.
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Similar to Drew Brees story in every way....Brees had the injury, but, he was overlooked due to size, ignored by the biggest/best in-state schools and others...just as Tiller saw something, there is no way he knew what he was actually getting...Painter saw something in Carsen, but, no way he knew what he was actually getting either.
 
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DAG10 said:
Similar to Drew Brees story in every way....Brees had the injury, but, he was overlooked due to size, ignored by the biggest/best in-state schools and others...just as Tiller saw something, there is no way he knew what he was actually getting...Painter saw something in Carsen, but, no way he knew what he was actually getting either.
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wasn't he the fall back after Simpson chose UM?
 
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DAG10 said:
I want to say yes in that he is the prototypical PG...literally, if there were a picture in the dictionary alongside the definition, his would be there.

He is certainly skilled enough...there is nobody on the team right now that has the passion that he does or plays with the energy that he does...last guy that did was indeed Kramer...the potential concern(s) are if he is physically strong enough (and, kid is strong...but, he is simply 17/18/19 (I have no idea what his age is)), and, can he hold his own defensively. He is a really good defender at this level...he understands all of those little things that you need to in order to be good defensively from a principles standpoint...quick hands.

And, it is a tough transition...no longer will he just be better than everyone else on the floor, and, no longer will he be clearly better than whoever he is individually matched up with. In HS, he can get a shot whenever he wants it...in part because he has crazy range, and, in that he just blows by guys...the range thing won't be an issue at the next level for him...but, the days of just blowing by guys likely will be.

I am not exaggerating with respect to his utter domination last night and in some other games that I have watched him...what he did last night was comical...Haralson for Fishers is poised to be a top-50 kid (maybe higher), and, granted he is only a freshman, but, Smith was so much better.

Another thing in his favor should be the talent around him will help him...he has one guy right now that is above average to play with...that will change and work for him.

Great handles...I can't even think of a Purdue player ever in my lifetime with the same or comparable court vision...pure shot...very impressive "hops"...competitive as hell...the epitome of a floor leader...tons of confidence...and, plays with pure joy. If he were 3-4 inches taller with the added body weight to go with that, I would have no questions at all...to the point that I would say he could play for them today in that he is better at everything than any guard Purdue has other than Ivey...but, absent that, I can't say it with the same confidence or conviction.

At the HS level...kid is pretty epic...just don't know how it will translate to B1G and elite level college basketball...if it does though, boy will Purdue be lucky.
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Nice writeup. Thanks. Seems like a guy we are truly missing on this year's team.

Anyone know how old B Smith is? Wondering if perhaps he's young enough to grow a bit more.
 
Roeder said:
Can Smith come in and play right away in your opinion? IT being only other returning PG has me a bit nervous for next year. He seems to have that "it" factor which leads me to believe he will be ready to contribute, and might quickly be one of those guys Painter won't take off the floor because of intangibles. I do not want to overhype him, but barring any transfers in and Ivey unexpectedly returning to play PG (pipe dream, I know), there will be a huge opportunity for minutes next year for whoever wants them.
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Some highlights from last night's game...
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CanC...9E250&utm_source=igweb&fall_back_to_web=false
 
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BoilerAndy said:
At the same point in Carsen Edwards' career, no one knew how good he was going to be. He wasn't even recruited by the big schools in his home state. No one knows how good Braden Smith is going to be. Except maybe Painter, who signed both.
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when Carsen was a Fr. and hit those 2 FT's to win the game down at Maryland, I said he will be a star.
 
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DAG10 said:
From The Indinia Star after the game...

INDIANAPOLIS – Fletcher Loyer of Homestead is nothing like Westfield’s Braden Smith. Loyer’s taller, for one thing, skinny and 6-4, and moves like a wisp of smoke. Doesn’t show much emotion, either. At this point he’s seen and heard it all. His dad is former Detroit Pistons coach John Loyer, and his older brother is Davidson’s Foster Loyer, the 2018 Michigan Mr. Basketball. The drive is there, but the body language betrays nothing.

Braden Smith of Westfield is nothing like Homestead’s Fletcher Loyer. He’s stronger, for one thing, sinewy and 6-0, and moves like a muscle car. Loyer can disappear into the lane before emerging for an open shot, but you can’t miss Braden Smith. He’s revving and growling and showing every emotion on a face that could pass for Tom Cruise, circa “Risky Business.” On a basketball court, he hides nothing.

They are fire and ice, these two, and they don’t have much in common. Other than these essential facts:

They are the two best shooters in Indiana high school basketball. They will almost surely finish 1-2 in 2022 IndyStar Mr. Basketball voting.

They are both headed to Purdue.

And on a neutral court on the southside of Indianapolis, they faced off Saturday night.

Thought you might be interested in what that looked like.

Purdue landed both these guys??​

Purdue coach Matt Painter has made it a point to recruit a shooter each season, from Dakota Mathias to Ryan Cline to Carsen Edwards to Sasha Stefanovic to Brandon Newman. The Boilermakers get one of these nearly every year.

What’s Purdue going to do with two?

That’ll be the Big Ten’s problem next season. Right now, it’s our pleasure to walk into a steamy gym on a cold December night and watch Loyer and Smith warming up. Neither one misses much, and Loyer in particular had a stretch where he hit 10 or 12 shots in a row, all 3-pointers, just flicking his wrist and letting genetics and muscle memory take over. Smith misses a few more, but he’s firing 35-footers and throwing up exaggerated floaters toward the rafters before falling into the basket. He’s shooting from deep on the baseline, nearly out of bounds, rainbows over the glass and into the rim.

In their own way, they are special shooters. Who’s better? I have a thought, and when that thought hit me on Saturday night in Southport, it surprised the hell out of me. We’ll get there.

But right now the game has started and Smith is defending Loyer, and he’s all in Loyer’s business. Loyer is running Smith off screens but it’s not easy, because Smith is the strongest, quickest player on the court. Loyer loses Smith on one ball screen, dribbles into a 3-pointer as a second defender charges, and drains it in everyone’s face. No emotion afterward. Just trots back for defense.

Another play, Loyer catches a pass just inside the arc and pump-fakes as Smith flies past. Now Loyer is dribbling once and spinning 360 degrees the other way to lose a second defender, and rises for two points.

Loyer averaged 24.4 points as a junior, his first season at Homestead after transferring from Clarkston, Mich. He’s averaging 26.5 ppg through six games this season – he’s a career 50-40-90 shooter at Homestead, shooting 50% from the floor overall, 42% on 3-pointers and 90% at the line – but he can pass, too. He’s trapped 40 feet from the rim and spots 6-6 senior Andrew Leeper for a dunk. Later, with seconds left in the first quarter, he’s trapped before he can get off the final shot, so he finds Leeper again, this time for a 3-pointer at the buzzer.

On the other end, Smith isn’t being defended by Loyer. Smith’s too quick for that. He’ll be a point guard at Purdue, though at Westfield he has to score a lot, which is no problem. He averaged 22 ppg last season, and is at 21.3 ppg and 4.8 assists this season. A varsity starter since his freshman season, he’s a career 50% shooter from the floor overall, 43% on 3-pointers and 82% from the foul line.

At this moment, Smith is moving hard to his right, gunning that motor like a Mustang, and catching a pass and elevating for a 3-pointer. That’s his second 3-pointer in a matter of moments, and here comes a third: Smith is at the edge of the midcourt logo, facing a defender who’s too smart to cover him so far out, and here’s the mischievous look on Tom Cruise’s face – I mean Braden Smith’s face: Sometimes you gotta say, “What the (heck).”

He buries it from 35 feet.

Should’ve seen the look on the defender’s face.

Smith is also throwing no-look passes and running a two-on-one fast break, and with a group of young boys from Westfield behind me shouting – “Dunk it!” – Smith is making the easy bounce pass to senior guard Kai Butterworth and pumping his first as Butterworth makes the layup.


Loyer and Smith will be quite the tandem at Purdue. After the game, a 58-55 victory for Class 4A third-ranked Homestead over No. 10 Westfield – Loyer had 22 points and six assists (2-for-8 on 3-pointers); Smith had 30 points and three assists (7-for-14 on 3-pointers) – Loyer was talking to IndyStar preps guru Kyle Neddenriep about next season at Mackey Arena.

“He’s a great passer,” Loyer said of Smith. “The way he passes the ball is pretty extraordinary, and he showed how well he can shoot it. I think us playing off of each other — we’re both pretty good at driving and kicking — can be pretty spectacular.”

If they’re both in the NBA in four years, don’t think I’ll be surprised.

So there’s pros all over the place in the arena, and I think I’m watching two more on the court in Fletcher Loyer and Braden Smith. Loyer needs to add about 15 pounds to play in the Big Ten, but at 6-4 with that shooting stroke and his ability to pass and handle the ball? He’ll have a shot.

Braden Smith is the one whose game caught me off-guard. He wasn’t nearly as highly recruited as Loyer. As Braden was telling our Kyle Neddenriep after the game, “I’m 6-foot on a good day.” And it’s true. But physically he’s ready for the Big Ten right now, and he’s a gifted shooter who can run an offense, and he’s stronger and quicker and more explosive – he finishes above the rim – than I was expecting. I mean, Purdue was the first high-major school to offer him. What the hell did everyone else think they were watching?
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one good thing about both of these players, they will be 4 yr players
 
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DAG10 said:
Similar to Drew Brees story in every way....Brees had the injury, but, he was overlooked due to size, ignored by the biggest/best in-state schools and others...just as Tiller saw something, there is no way he knew what he was actually getting...Painter saw something in Carsen, but, no way he knew what he was actually getting either.
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Yes he did. I can guarantee you Matt could see special in the first 5 minutes of tape.
 
I hope more than anything, that I'm 100% wrong on Smith and that in 3 years, I'm talking about how good the crow tastes and how grateful I am that he's at PU.
But, despite a guy dominating at the high school level (I'm sure a lot of great articles were written about the kid who was Mr B a few years ago and ended up at Samford in FL, now at BSU I believe?) it's just hard for me to get excited about another sub-6 ft guard who's not an elite athlete and who not other D1 coaches thought was worth a scholie.
Again, I hope I'm 100% wrong.
 
bonefish1 said:
I hope more than anything, that I'm 100% wrong on Smith and that in 3 years, I'm talking about how good the crow tastes and how grateful I am that he's at PU.
But, despite a guy dominating at the high school level (I'm sure a lot of great articles were written about the kid who was Mr B a few years ago and ended up at Samford in FL, now at BSU I believe?) it's just hard for me to get excited about another sub-6 ft guard who's not an elite athlete and who not other D1 coaches thought was worth a scholie.
Again, I hope I'm 100% wrong.
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I dont know how he'll turn out, but may have to disagree with the elite athlete part. While I've never seen him in person, in the highlight videos he appears very explosive. Considering he can dunk with ease, he may have the best standing vertical on the team right now.
 
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bonefish1 said:
I hope more than anything, that I'm 100% wrong on Smith and that in 3 years, I'm talking about how good the crow tastes and how grateful I am that he's at PU.
But, despite a guy dominating at the high school level (I'm sure a lot of great articles were written about the kid who was Mr B a few years ago and ended up at Samford in FL, now at BSU I believe?) it's just hard for me to get excited about another sub-6 ft guard who's not an elite athlete and who not other D1 coaches thought was worth a scholie.
Again, I hope I'm 100% wrong.
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Trust me, the kid is athletic...

If he were 3" taller, he would be JJ Reddick-caliber and should have received the same recognition if that were the case...Jason Williams...already said it, Scott Skiles.

I admittedly have no idea how things turn out...like you, I was REALLY skeptical...but, he just plays so damn hard and with such a passion and energy...a competitiveness that few have, and, that the only guy that I can even think of that approaches it for Purdue would be Kramer (and, he did not even have the same competitive spirit of this kid) and, with the athleticism that he has that is abnormal...I am anxious to see what happens.

Night and day from Luke Brown...aside of skin color and being undersized, and, crazy range, not the same at all.

I won't tell you to get excited or try to make you think that he is going to be something that he is not, but, I already said it and stand by it...IF the size concern is the only concern, and, it proves to not be a valid one...Purdue got a steal and there will be a ton of D1 coaches that regret those thoughts.

Kid is unbelievable at the HS level...and, as I said in another post, he is playing with a single other guy right now that is above average, and, he is not a guy that is significantly above average...when surrounded by other really good/talented guys, it will not hurt his game and strengths, but, enhance them.

There is a reason he did not get looks/offers...his size...that is it.

Lewis Jackson was undersized and very successful at Purdue...just can't see how Smith can't do at least that, and, his overall game is far superior.
 
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You can also be a little undersized as long as you are pretty stout. So even though he may be ITs height, he is already bigger and stronger than IT. At least that what it looks like to me. That will help him on defense for sure.
 
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bonefish1 said:
I hope more than anything, that I'm 100% wrong on Smith and that in 3 years, I'm talking about how good the crow tastes and how grateful I am that he's at PU.
But, despite a guy dominating at the high school level (I'm sure a lot of great articles were written about the kid who was Mr B a few years ago and ended up at Samford in FL, now at BSU I believe?) it's just hard for me to get excited about another sub-6 ft guard who's not an elite athlete and who not other D1 coaches thought was worth a scholie.
Again, I hope I'm 100% wrong.
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Great now we already know who Lenny will rag on for the next 4 years after IT is gone.
 
purdueplayer said:
You can also be a little undersized as long as you are pretty stout. So even though he may be ITs height, he is already bigger and stronger than IT. At least that what it looks like to me. That will help him on defense for sure.
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I should have added/included...there were questions about Cline...size was not the issue there, but, athleticism was the big question, and, maybe some around ballhandling...biggest thing was whether he could get his shot off or not...many felt that it was an issue, Painter did not...Painter was right...here is hoping that he is again, as, if so...boy is Purdue going to be lucky, and, thankful...more so in that not only will we enjoy the fact that others were wrong and regret it, but, this guy will make sure that they regret it.
 
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DAG10 said:
Trust me, the kid is athletic...

If he were 3" taller, he would be JJ Reddick-caliber and should have received the same recognition if that were the case...Jason Williams...already said it, Scott Skiles.

I admittedly have no idea how things turn out...like you, I was REALLY skeptical...but, he just plays so damn hard and with such a passion and energy...a competitiveness that few have, and, that the only guy that I can even think of that approaches it for Purdue would be Kramer (and, he did not even have the same competitive spirit of this kid) and, with the athleticism that he has that is abnormal...I am anxious to see what happens.

Night and day from Luke Brown...aside of skin color and being undersized, and, crazy range, not the same at all.

I won't tell you to get excited or try to make you think that he is going to be something that he is not, but, I already said it and stand by it...IF the size concern is the only concern, and, it proves to not be a valid one...Purdue got a steal and there will be a ton of D1 coaches that regret those thoughts.

Kid is unbelievable at the HS level...and, as I said in another post, he is playing with a single other guy right now that is above average, and, he is not a guy that is significantly above average...when surrounded by other really good/talented guys, it will not hurt his game and strengths, but, enhance them.

There is a reason he did not get looks/offers...his size...that is it.

Lewis Jackson was undersized and very successful at Purdue...just can't see how Smith can't do at least that, and, his overall game is far superior.
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Loved LJ - he and Ricky Hall were the quickest I've personally seen for the Boilers. Braden Smith has much more range for production away from the rim. You never know, but I really like what I've seen even with a short sample size from Mr. Smith.
 
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Purdue Grad in Texas said:
Loved LJ - he and Ricky Hall were the quickest I've personally seen for the Boilers. Braden Smith has much more range for production away from the rim. You never know, but I really like what I've seen even with a short sample size from Mr. Smith.
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Admittedly, maybe I am more enamored in that I was skeptical, but, I saw him in December and was pretty much blown away...but, also did not want to make too much of it as it was one game...he was no doubt amped more than normal because it was against Loyer and a spotlight game.

I saw him again in the HOF Classic, and, I was more excited in that I saw the same things, and, even some more...but, I still wanted to temper things and not get carried away.

The other night...like say, what he did was straight epic...Fishers was ranked #2 in the State, #1 in the Indy Metro area...had lost 3 games all year by a combined 9 points...had beat multiple ranked teams, highly ones at that...beat Smith's Westfield team just a few weeks ago while he was out by 25 points (which, he admitted served as added motivation)...and, at one point in the 3rd Quarter, Smith had outscored Fishers 25-23 by himself, and, had multiple assists on top of it. It was just silly what he was doing.

Like say...I don't know that he will be able to do THAT at Purdue, but, I have no doubt at all that he can play and succeed...he is every bit as good as Jordan Hulls was at IU...better than what Lewis Jackson was as a player...certainly a lot like Fatts Russell who we just saw light Purdue up in Mackey a couple of weeks ago. I said it in another post...Cline had questions...they proved ultimately to not be warranted...I can totally see that being the case here, but, in full disclosure, I don't know how much of a valid concern his height truly should be...that literally is the only knock on the kid, and, he can't control it...as I have no doubt at all that if it were physically possible, he would control it/fix it.

The kid has a motor like no other...he WANTS to be great...he has put in the work to be great at where he is...he will put in the work at Purdue as well...but, again, I just don't know how big of a hindrance his size is/will be...if it is the same as what Cline's was...then, essentially nothing to worry about, as, this kid has shown everything else.
 
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bonefish1 said:
I hope more than anything, that I'm 100% wrong on Smith and that in 3 years, I'm talking about how good the crow tastes and how grateful I am that he's at PU.
But, despite a guy dominating at the high school level (I'm sure a lot of great articles were written about the kid who was Mr B a few years ago and ended up at Samford in FL, now at BSU I believe?) it's just hard for me to get excited about another sub-6 ft guard who's not an elite athlete and who not other D1 coaches thought was worth a scholie.
Again, I hope I'm 100% wrong.
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I have WAY more concerns about Waddell frankly than Smith, and, by all accounts, those concerns should not exist.

Virginia wanted Waddell...it was after he had already been offered by Purdue, but, they wanted him...that made me feel better at the time...what happened before he got hurt and while he was practicing at/with Purdue further alleviated virtually any concern that I really still had.

I still want to see it, but, I had seen Waddell plenty in HS...and, I had way more concerns about Purdue offering him than I do Smith, and, that is not a knock on Waddell in any way...he just never dominated as Smith does (few have/do), and, Smith is THE show whenever Westfield plays...he has the ball in his hands for the course of the game.
 
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bonefish1 said:
I hope more than anything, that I'm 100% wrong on Smith and that in 3 years, I'm talking about how good the crow tastes and how grateful I am that he's at PU.
But, despite a guy dominating at the high school level (I'm sure a lot of great articles were written about the kid who was Mr B a few years ago and ended up at Samford in FL, now at BSU I believe?) it's just hard for me to get excited about another sub-6 ft guard who's not an elite athlete and who not other D1 coaches thought was worth a scholie.
Again, I hope I'm 100% wrong.
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still not following why you find it necessary to put yourself in a position to eat crow. The kid will be who he will be. It's unnecessary to repeatedly hammer him.
 
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Purdue85 said:
still not following why you find it necessary to put yourself in a position to eat crow. The kid will be who he will be. It's unnecessary to repeatedly hammer him.
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No hammering the kid, more like hammering Painter.
 
ImRonBurgandy? said:
I dont know how he'll turn out, but may have to disagree with the elite athlete part. While I've never seen him in person, in the highlight videos he appears very explosive. Considering he can dunk with ease, he may have the best standing vertical on the team right now.
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No shit, smith is great athlete. Not sure what Bone is looking at. Fast twitch, strong and can shoot. Plays on the balls of his feet 100% of the time.
 
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