I’m not saying you wrong and you could be right I’m just saying whatever position he plays offensively or defensively he’s gonna give his all no matter the position he plays same with Grady. The team gonna need him playing well especially these next 5 games and he will to me that’s all that counts. He’s been great I’m glad he’s here he gives this team experience toughness scoring rebounding being a team team player that cares about winning. Evan gonna do whatever he has to do to help this team win.
Haarms
- Thread starter ImRonBurgandy?
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6 games they just getting started. I have faith in all these players and 6 games into the season they showing grit team work chemistry having fun that will win games even with the new roles the staters have. All playing well had VT on its heals a game that Purdue should of won but u learn from it get better watch film and be prepared moving forward. I’m looking forward to watching these boys prove so many wrong not giving them a chance. All the pieces fit are coming together just a matter of time Purdue get some respect. Jump on this train it’s still rolling.
Again, and not trying to beat a dead horse here, that isnt my point. It isnt whether or not Ebo is better guarding the 4 or 5. I agree that he is better guarding the 5. There is a false equivalency there thinking that means he cant guard the 4.
I'm totally accepting of criticism and appreciate you pointing that out. Using personal data points is great, but has very little standing. I'm guessing almost no one here has played at this high of a level (or coached this high of a level), so any personal data points are just that. I think blatantly saying that a player cant play x position or is a worse defender is impossible without statistical backing. At the moment we have none. I intended to call out the fact that saying "Oh I've seen all the games and X is true" is a really interesting hill to die on.
But again, I intend to be completely civil so my apologies for ruffling any feathers. Happy to be posting here.
I wouldn’t say “many wrong not giving them a chance”. They’re ranked 24th which is dang considerate from what I’ve seen.
we have all watched Evan move his feet laterally (and more importantly, so has CMP, both in games and practices) and he’s just not quick enough to stay in front of many B1G stretch 4s. You don’t need to put him on Isaiah Livers in a game to know that he can’t stay in front of him.
And our evaluations differ. IMO he would do just fine, as it is your opinion that he wouldn't. Please stop trotting out opinion as fact. Until CMP says he can't guard the 4, or he gets absolutely destroyed by some B1G 4, there is really no argument to not put him there.
He doesn't get minutes at the 4, because we simply dont' have a 5 (or two) that can play 30 minutes at this point. I would love for that to change as we are at our most dangerous with multiple offensive weapons on the floor.
And let me add, that I would LOVE to be wrong here, and get Tre some minutes at the backup 5. I really think he’s gonna be special. So quick, great footwork, relentless on the boards, built to play in the B1G.
Just FYI: The B1G has a lot of guys make the NBA every year. Also teams we’ll play in the NCAAs have guys that make the league.
This is an odd hill to die on. Very few players make NBA Rosters/ get two-way contracts. VEd is in the top tier of 4s coming out of college. As per the data points from VTech, I am very comfortable with Ebo guarding 4s at this point in time. If we ever get a chance to test this, let's revisit this conversation.
Again- Painter never said Ebo cant play the 4. If I recall, Purdue, Xavier, and Lousiville (and probably more) were recruiting him for that position. Those coaches, including CMP, must be crazy. As i've said like 10 times in this thread. It's clear he doesn't play the 4 simply because we need the depth at the 5.
Totally respect your opinion, but I don't want to blow up this thread saying the same thing over and over again.
CMP doesn’t have to tell the media he can’t defend the 4- he is saying it by not putting him in at the 4. Maybe he will against a team that features a more traditional power forward.
And EBo could easily back up both spots: he’s playing only 18.8 minutes a game. He could take Wheeler’s 13.5 minutes if CMP thought it was best for the team. He obviously does not.
and CMP said he needs to EBo more minutes. IMO Wheeler is another case where he needs to get his minutes there because we need to be a deeper team and there is no where else for him to play. I think we all had hope that he could play the three, but right now it looks like he is still adjusting to college hoops. Also, if you think Wheeler has played better defense than Ebo so far this year, thats a whole new conversation. Clearly his athletic ceiling is higher, but he has looked lost out there as he's trying to find his way.
I think we all need to remember this is a new team. I think Coach is playing as many players as possible to not only get them floor experience but to see what he's got. He is playing with an eye to March. I think this team has a ton of room to grow. I don't think we have seen anything that will resemble the regular rotation yet. As far as folks throwing out who can do what against whom, at this point its all speculation. Everyone got beat at some point against VT guards...everyone. I think there are very few 4's out there with the speed, quickness, and 3 point shooting that team had. Let's just sit back and enjoy watching this team develop....
I "think" you both are talking around each other and are both correct. Grady is quicker than Evan. Evan has more offensive tools. It is true that Matt has no other back up with any kind of experience banging inside other than Evan. There is also a consideration in how you split your minutes to keep a "team" on the court with some scoring punch. Defense is half the game as is offense and there will always be a debate when player 1 is considered better offensively and player 2 is considered better defensively and BOTH could be playing for the same spot. Does one's offense leave a positive if it is a minus a bit on D or vice versa?
Tre made really good use of his time the other night...perhaps he starts to make a move? Even though he got 3 seconds I liked his attempt to drop step with his right foot and "dunk" over the defender. If Purdue just gets some continued improvement in Wheeler, Hunter and Tre...AND Matt....this team will surprise and we may see a different team and have different questions...
I hope my posts don't seem cynical- just hoping for some lineup variability from CMP.
100% agreed. I honestly like the direction this team is trending and think its obvious the more minutes we can get some of these guys- Tre, Wheeler, Hunter, Matt, Ebo- the better off we will be come March.
100% agreed. I honestly like the direction this team is trending and think its obvious the more minutes we can get some of these guys- Tre, Wheeler, Hunter, Matt, Ebo- the better off we will be come March.
This is kind of the same thing I've heard year in and year out. To start the season people want to see player X get more minutes then later on they want the rotation tightened.
I have faith that the coaching staff knows the team better than we do and knows who should be playing and who shouldn't and who knows, that may change based on who we are playing against.
Add to that if Painter thinks EBo is the best option at the 4, he may not start there but will be there at the end of (close) games when preserving depth and fouls is not an issue. Assuming he can play more than 20 mpg.
I'm a little concerned haarms isn't playing more minutes. I'm not a huge fan of those 40 mpg stats, because few players ever play 40 mpg. if haarms isn't going to play 25 mpg, then why even try to project what his 40 mpg stats would be. if you're tha t interested, why not also project Sasha and Luce's 40 MPG stats. I'll bet they rival Cline's .
In order for Purdue to succeed, we need some sort of inside scoring and presence. that was a key to last year's success. Even when Haas didn't have a huge scoring night, he was at least a threat to be able to score from inside which kept the opposing defenses honest and opened up the outside.
In order for Purdue to succeed, we need some sort of inside scoring and presence. that was a key to last year's success. Even when Haas didn't have a huge scoring night, he was at least a threat to be able to score from inside which kept the opposing defenses honest and opened up the outside.
THAT is a natural progression. You try to build depth and give kids a chance to improve their stock early (and usually that is easier teams) and as these games start to tighten up in the race for championships and/or seeding so does your rotation typically.
I agree said in the beginning of the season that you want to be able to score in all three areas...and the inside area shouldn't just be drives. I too think Matt needs to be a bit more aggressive on offense by looking at the basket on the high post and sealing well in the low post...coupled with a desire to get him the ball down low when that may be an advantage.
Your arguement makes some sense in that we, as fans, don’t have enough data to show that EB can’t play the 4 or play alongside MH. Where I have trouble following your arguement is that clearly MP has a reason for not playing EB at the 4 and whether his reasoning is good or bad, he has much more data than we do.
You argue that EB doesn’t play the 4 because we don’t have another backup 5 ready to play, but that arguement only holds if you believe that EB can’t handle more than the 19 mpg he’s currently getting, which if far fewer minutes than he played at Dartmouth. The conclusion that he can only handle 19 minutes per game doesn’t hold water with me, so I’m forced to conclude that MP must have other reasons for not playing EB at the 4.
I don't think that stacks up. The arguement isnt predicated on ability to play minutes, more the risk we assume if we dont have a 5 ready to go. This thread (and the ensuing discussion) was about Haarms not being available for 25+minutes a night due to fouls, conditioning (?), etc. I think CMP would absolutely play Ebo at the 4 if there was an option, but we have two guys in Wheeler and Eifert (and maybe even Nojel) that can play it adequately. We have 0 5s ready to play more than 5-7 mpg outside of Haarms and Ebo. There has clearly been a risk/reward analysis here from the coaching staff.
i would love to see both Matt and Ebo on the floor more, and possibly together.
a little more...
Purdue Men’s BasketballVerified account@BoilerBall 1m1 minute ago
a little more...
Purdue Men’s BasketballVerified account@BoilerBall 1m1 minute ago
Painter: “Evan’s been very effective at the five, but I can see he and Haarms playing together down the road.”
Tuned in to potentially hear this. Glad it's being looked at as an option. He also said Grady knows all the plays and positioning and where to be, so maybe as the season progress and that knowledge is solidified we will see that Ebo/Haarms lineup more.
That may very well be..and as I said...it may be somewhat of a particular game thing that deviates form time to time. Matt wants some offense off the bench as well and so Purdue has many pieces still in play as to what happens down the road. Grady has sooooooo many hustle plays and can shoot when open...just not able to score in all the ways Evan can. Purdue just needs to win as the players start to provide a picture of what each brings.
I personally would like to see tre get more minutes other then mop up duty.
OH YODA .. stop the wisdom ... this unwise board is .... well ... unwise. Although, this thread has proven there is hope ... and I appreciate it!!!
Sorry, I’m not sure I’m following. Is your theory that EB isn’t playing at the 4, even though he could handle playing more minutes, for fear of him being injured and not having another backup at the 5?
Wheeler is an athlete who can shoot the three at a decent clip.
Vince Edward's was a basketball player. If Vince had more athleticism, he would have been a 2 year, NBA lottery type player.
As a basketball player, wheeler is not in the same planet as VE. Period.
The ones talking about Haarms, what should he be doing more with the 17 to 18 minutes he is averaging? I looked at the team stats so I wouldn't say anything out of place, but he isn't turning the ball over as much as what I am reading on. If I went over the games right, he has about 2 a game, compared to other players that have 4 or 5. You can expect a point guard to turn it over more as they have the ball more, but it's Carsen that has the most per game over a 6 game stretch and he doesn't run the point most of the time. Carsen is one of my favorite players, but I will say what is the truth. I have read so many comments on HAarms and production and if you look at his stats, he is playing just as well as anybody.
I also just double checked and Carsen has 19 turnovers through 6 games to Haarms 11. Carsen plays more and will score a ton of points to make up for some of his mistakes, but Haarms doesn't play 28 to 29 minutes a game either to rack up a ton of points.
He can't play as well as anybody...Purdue needs him to be "A" main event...needs points from the 5. It appears he has improved his FT shooting, but whether by design or not I want him to sometimes look to the basket when he is at the high post rather than always handing it off. I also want him to demand the ball more and seal off the low post. Next to Carsen...he needs to be the threat. He either is much taller than those guarding him or will be much quicker in "almost all" the games. Needs to use his height or quickness to score a bit more IMO. Maybe he doesn't know how good he could and should be...Matt bring it out of him!
Problem is that shot clock again...limiting the time to run things and forcing quicker options...
Hah- again only a few games in but if you're sticking by that after FSU you're just stubborn.
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