All the trump Scouts like the Fox newsies & the sillies on this board have been working hard to earn their “deflection” badges the past few weeks that’s for sure
Ex-Trump campaign manager Manafort charged in 12-count indictment
- Thread starter indy35
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Had more time to read on this last night. Here's what we know at this point - everything else is conjecture:
Manafort ran Trump's campaign for a crucial five-month period in 2016 that included managing the Republican convention. His business associate Rick Gates, also indicted yesterday, continued with the campaign, and the transition, after Trump fired Manafort in August 2016. Both men pleaded not guilty, and Manafort’s attorney called parts of the indictment “ridiculous,” saying Mueller is using a “very novel theory” to bring the charges.
Everything in the 12-count indictment covers the period from 2006 to 2015, before Manafort and Gates had any involvement in the Trump's campaign.
The charges involve money-laundering, tax evasion, illegal lobbying and lying. The alleged details, such as moving money from offshore accounts in places like Cyprus, have nothing to do with Trump.
Some are saying Mueller is just trying to squeeze Manafort and turn him against Trump. That may be true, but of course assumes he has some kind of incriminating evidence on the president.
Manafort’s attendance at that meeting with Donald Trump Jr. and a Russian lawyer isn’t mentioned in the indictment. It’s all about his past business dealings.
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The investigation has always has been about collusion by the Trump campaign. It has morphed into collusion by Trump himself, not something most reasonable people believe happened.
The Papadopoulos indictment clearly counters your "would have been leaked by now" statement. Absolutely no one knew on Friday this was coming down. He was arrested in July and has been working with the feds ever since........and no one knew it. Just because there were numerous leaks for some time doesn't mean everything has been leaked. Mueller just proved he can keep secrets and it got the attention of many yesterday.
I didn't call Mueller a fraud but I don't trust the FBI to be impartial. Terry McAuliffe is under investigation for giving funds (500k) to the wife of a prominent FBI agent. This russian investigation has always been a double edged sword IMO.
Your "What We Know" left out the guy who pled guilty about lying with regards to interacting with the Russians and who has been a proactive cooperator with the special counsel since July.
Your "What We Know" also leaves our basic facts about how investigations like these work. "Some are saying" Mueller is trying to squeeze Manafort? Uh, anyone with a clue on how these investigations work knows this is what's happening. He went at him with fairly air-tight charges. The first step in investigations like this isn't laying out all your cards on the table. Also, you do not get a plea deal with federal investigators if you don't deliver anything.
Yesterday it was clearly laid out on the table that from the counsel:
-This is what happens if you cooperate with us (Papadopoulus)
-This is what happens if you do not (Manafort & Gates)
-You better tell the truth when you talk to us because we aren't afraid to charge you for it
-We know a lot more than you may think
-This is not some sloppy operation
What this doesn't prove (or doesn't NOT prove) is:
-There was conspiracy (a crime) vs. simple collusion (which it appears there was at least attempted within the campaign's realm, but it's not a crime alone)
-That Trump knew of it
Those are obviously the 2 "main" questions at hand.
The questions are:
-Who did Papadopoulus deliver? He was almost certainly wearing a wire and/or recording conversations with someone higher up in order to get a plea deal. The government also went to great efforts to keep this all a secret.
-Are there other Papadopouluses? We do not know who else is cooperating - whether its someone "on the radar" (i.e. Flynn) or "off the radar" (i.e. people we weren't really paying attention to).
-As the investigation progresses, more interviews are made and interrogating occurs within those charged - will it lead to information that leads to a crime having taken place?
-Even if a direct crime is not able to be proven, will it connect to other charges - like obstruction of justice? These types of cases are hard to prove - look at mob cases - they often are nailed for other stuff than what they likely did but can't be proven in court. Obviously as this goes up the food chain, that will be determined.
On a side note, something I think we can all agree on is that Carter Page is one of the dumbest people on the planet. He went on TV last night and gave an interview - stating he spoke to the FBI for hours with no lawyer present, currently has no lawyer and only has some "advisors", and basically admitted he was on email chains with Papadopoulus talking about Russia. What the hell?
Believe it or not, there are people with ethics. I understand you may not get that impression from the current administration though.
Sorry, but neither party can be called shining examples of ethical behavior. Just because you chose to ignore the obvious unethical behavior of "The Messiah" and his administration doesn't mean it didn't happen. HRC, Obama, Holder, Comey, Mueller, etc., etc., are all being exposed for the lying, cheating, grifters that they truly are.
I don't think Trump is lily white either, but he's only been in office 10 months so he has less history behind him in office.
too late on that. The dossier was funded privately and turned over to american and british intelligence. Think about that. You pay an ex MI6 agent money to write a report that says the president elect has been compromised and can be blackmailed by putin and drop it in the FBIs lap. Let that sink in. That is what we are talking about here.
Now the White House deserves credit for helping take him down! Except that's a lie too.
The White House provided emails to the special counsel a month after he had already been arrested.
Do you mean the Dems and the Clinton Campaign? There is plenty of proof of collusion there. It's interesting, that they're not focusing any attention at the obvious, but that wouldn't fit the political agenda.
Uranium One just doesn't hold up to basic scrutiny. Conservative media says it's a scandal and their willing lemmings lap it up without an ounce of thought.
If there's nothing to it, why is it now part of the Mueller probe and why are there two separate Congressional panels looking into it?
If you used sources besides Huffington Post, CNN, and MSNBC, maybe you'd realize there is more to it than you're willing to admit. You are more than willing to refer to sources that will do everything in their power to shield and protect HRC, Bill Clinton, Obama, Eric Holder, etc., from what they rightly deserve, yet it's the Conservatives who are the "willing lemmings". OK.........
That's easy, because the Republican run committees are trying to change the narrative around the Mueller investigation and muddy the waters. It's clear why they are talking about it again. What will it take for Republican voters to realize that they are constantly lied to? Again and again and again all of these conspiracy theories they hear on Fox News/Breitbart/Infowards are proven wrong and they just keep coming back for more. I listen to Hannity and Levin on the radio in the car when I'm driving around in the evening. If you're not in the bubble it's unreal to see how much they lie to their audience constantly.
Please, illuminate us all in how they have lied about UraniumOne or about the bogus "golden shower" dossier.
It's laughable that you compare Fox News with Breitbart and Infowars. That's like comparing WaPo with Mother Jones or NBC with Vox. It's a conspiracy theory, even when the NYT covers it? WaPo covers it? LMAO.
I know why you want it to go away. It's end to end pay for play collusion with russia with a verified fbi/doj cover up. ouch.
Don't waste your time with these people...they don't respond to anything factual. Mueller was praised by every Republican when he was named special prosecutor. Suddenly he's now a liberal shrill.
Newt Gingrich called Mueller a "superb choice" now says he's an "out of control prosecutor". These people are living in their own world, we just are lucky to be a part of it.
The new revalations need to be investigated, and they are. I think Nunes and Grassley are bring people in to testify soon.
But for months FOX and Brietbart run stories that say " Hillary sold 20% of US uranium to Russia". That's just not true. I can give you the facts but they are everywhere to see on the net.
We have a Republican controlled congress but they haven't been beating the uranium one story like the right wing media, until these new questions. With ALL the pressure ftom the right why wouldn't they have continued to investigate or found something on the original deal? Because they are all rinos or in on a vast conspiracy illuminati style?
That's part of the game, nothing will happen with the Republican accusations, like with pretty much every "scandal." They'll convince their base that it's because the Democrats, Rinos, New World Order, etc, are incredibly slimy, are covering for each other and are just that good at skirting the rule of law. In reality, nothing comes of the accusations because they're generally completely without merit and fall apart with just the slightest research.
I have a hard time accepting your logic, that what you stated above is without merit.
The HRC e-mail scandal sticks in my craw. She was, as Comey stated, careless with classified information. She deleted 30,000 e-mails subpoenaed by the FBI.
She destroyed cell phones with information on them, all this was ok with the FBI. At minimum the FBI should have secured the server and cell phones to make sure
nobody got a hold of it. IMO the FBI was extremely negligent in this case.
The Dems paid Russia through sources, to create a fake document to have an affect on the election.
HRC was extremely careless with classified information, she lied about it to the public, we don't know if she told the FBI the truth. If she did lie to the FBI, like she lied to the public about the number and content of her e-mails, she should be behind bars.
We also know that Russia gave the Clintons 145 million bucks. While HRC was SOS. Russia controls 20% of our Uranium Ore. Coincidence?
We know CNN colluded with HRC by giving her questions to her debate with Bernie Sanders. So CNN tried to affect the outcome of our election.
Comey knew before the election Trump wasn't under investigation, so why didn't he tell the public?
After a year and a half the FBI has two guys, who 3 years ago did illegal things.
After 3 years the FBI has 1 guy that was caught lying to the FBI about the date of a meeting.
And you have the gall to question why the conservatives on this board are upset with the FBI.
Did you hear hear that Jared and Ivanka have been using multiple private email accounts to conduct White House business? And there's multiple aides that have as well, but the White House won't tell the House Oversight Committee who? Are you outraged?!
Maybe we should release every single one of their emails for individual scrutiny and reading between the lines! Sounds so fun!
You're onto something, Nancy Drew.
Disregarding the distraction attempts, some new revelations in the case.
George Papadopoulus' supervisor on the campaign, Sam Clovis, was interviewed by the special counsel last week - just before it was unveiled George had been a proactive cooperator with the counsel. Obviously those 2 things are unlikely to be related.
Clovis is the "unnamed supervisor" in Papadopoulus' plea documents. Clovis was Trump's campaign co-chair, and is currently awaiting confirmation to be the USDA's top scientist (even though he's not a scientist- drain the swamp!).
George Papadopoulus' supervisor on the campaign, Sam Clovis, was interviewed by the special counsel last week - just before it was unveiled George had been a proactive cooperator with the counsel. Obviously those 2 things are unlikely to be related.
Clovis is the "unnamed supervisor" in Papadopoulus' plea documents. Clovis was Trump's campaign co-chair, and is currently awaiting confirmation to be the USDA's top scientist (even though he's not a scientist- drain the swamp!).
This is a perfect example, you are stating things as fact here that are not factual.
Once again you make a claim of not being factual and you don't provide any proof that it isn't. Using a liberal "fact checker"?
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Are they handling classified information and are either SOS?
Have they travelled to Russia or China while transferring classified information via cell phone or Ipad?
Nice try though.
There have been multiple links posted on this very board showing some of those assertions are not accurate. If I repost them again won't you just ignore them or say it's some part of the vast globalist conspiracy?
We won't know unless we get to read them all now will we!? So it seems you think it's ok for SOME positions to handle classified info on private email, but SOME positions it's not ok - only those named Hillary Clinton. That makes total sense!
Wow, you're such a legal mind that you thought Manafort and/or Flynn should be implicated. Those weren't a matter of if, they were a matter of when. Collusion is not a crime itself, conspiring is. And you have to keep in mind that obstruction of justice is on the table - whether Trump himself or those within this investigation. That doesn't require actual conspiracy - just an effort to undermine the investigation.
And it would have leaked by now if there was anything? Kinda like how Papadopoulus leaked as a cooperating witness and has likely been wearing a wire? And everyone knew Manafort was going to be arrested leading up to Monday morning? Oh wait, nobody had a darn clue until it actually happened. This special counsel is not messing around and it's not leaking - any leaks are coming from the periphery (i.e. court workers) or defense lawyers.
Ok we don't know for sure, but it's highly unlikely that Trumps daughter has top secret clearance. Should she turn over her e mails? If she is given 6 months to sift through all the emails and only turns in the ones she wants. She deletes the rest and is allowed to destroy any devices that might have received e mails from the server in question. In HRCs case, she couldn't even get the deleting part right as the FBI still found hundreds of top secret related emails.
And I always wondered why such urgency to delete 30,000 emails about Chelseys wedding or yoga classes.
Um, they both have security clearances. Jared has - multiple times- had to amend his security clearance application because he "forgot" things until they were reported publicly. He also asked Russian officials to use the Russian Embassy's internal communication system as a backchannel. But yeah, he totally wouldn't be careless with anything remotely classified! And the "classified" info found in Hillary's emails were things like asking to set up a phone call with a President of Indonesia or some country like that - you act like they were state secrets for heaven sakes. But I'm not gonna get into an argument about something you'll never get over until someone that actually matters sides with you.
There are different levels of clearance and I would be surprised and concerned if any of Trumps siblings had the same clearance as madam secretary.
Nobody knows what was on the 30,000 deleted e mails. And as I stated above , why delete them if there was nothing to hide. I'm sure the FBI would release information about yoga and wedding plans. At least no one is talking. Maybe the Russians, Koreans and ISIS know. The information was sure recklessly floated out there to be to hack.
Seems Jared may need to do some more amending.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/charle...mmediate-congressional-hearings/#3bfbe9144baa
Violations of the emoluments clause, all kinds of them. Trump properties were promoted in speeches and on government websites (they have been taken down). Ethics waivers were not published for 6 months....but since publishing them they show 16 waivers for white house staff. For comparison , Obama gave 16 to WH staff in 8 years. These waivers allow individuals to work for the admin in the same topic or area they worked in the private sector, some are former lobbyists. Political appointees can also be just departed lobbyists per Trump's guidelines.
Speaking of lobbyists, Trump has already went against his much touted 5 year ban of former admin officials becoming lobbyists of their former office. Marcus Peacock got a waiver, he has to wait 6 months.
Whether its foreign officials staying in his hotels or condos being built in the UAE or trademarks in China, the ethical issues with this admin are numerous. I haven't even mentioned Ivanka or his cabinet. Drain the swamp lol.
Oh, and the head of the OGE (Office of Government Ethics) quit in July after fueding with Trump since he took office. Probably didn't like Trump's cologne.
Speaking of lobbyists, Trump has already went against his much touted 5 year ban of former admin officials becoming lobbyists of their former office. Marcus Peacock got a waiver, he has to wait 6 months.
Whether its foreign officials staying in his hotels or condos being built in the UAE or trademarks in China, the ethical issues with this admin are numerous. I haven't even mentioned Ivanka or his cabinet. Drain the swamp lol.
Oh, and the head of the OGE (Office of Government Ethics) quit in July after fueding with Trump since he took office. Probably didn't like Trump's cologne.
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Why do you think he stays at Trump properties every chance he gets? Could it have something to do with tax payers paying his properties to house support staff? I will bet my savings on it, if Vegas puts up odds, that he has made more this year than he ever has. But, it's okay, I mean, he is one of us, he isn't Obama, wink, wink.
LOL.
When one is writing a pardon letter while doing an investigation, and the head of FBI all but admits while he hates he leakers, he is a leaker, well, one has the answer if they are political or not.
