Ex-Trump campaign manager Manafort charged in 12-count indictment
- Thread starter indy35
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huh...I was expecting a lot more charges to be honest. A bunch of financial charges? That's it?
I guess there was a possible a statute of limitations problem on some of the tax evasion charges unless they were filed by Friday. I don't think that is really what Mueller is after but no prosecutor is going to pass on that low hanging fruit. Mueller can still add additional charges against Manafort and Gates later but failure to report 18 million dollars is a pretty big deal.
I'm not trying to say it's not, but in the context of "russian meddling" this is...not what I was expecting.
Tip of the iceberg, there will be much more to come. We'll see if Manafort cooperates with authorities and discloses what he knows, or flips on those even deeper involved.
Ha, you actually think this is the end of all of this and these are the only people that will be indicted?
Not to mention some of this took place while he was Trump's campaign manager.
Former Trump Foreign Policy Adviser Secretly Pleaded Guilty in Mueller Probe
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...olicy-adviser-pleaded-guilty-in-mueller-probe
This is really bad, especially when you look at all of the details of Trump's meeting/speech at the Mayflower Hotel on April 27th 2016.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...olicy-adviser-pleaded-guilty-in-mueller-probe
This is really bad, especially when you look at all of the details of Trump's meeting/speech at the Mayflower Hotel on April 27th 2016.
Bingo, this man was arrested in July and presumably cooperated with authorities for the last 3 months and ended up with a plea deal. There's a lot of questions this uncovers.
Manafort and his associate were charged with things related to statute of limitations, BUT it is not really meaningless that they have nothing to do with Russia on its face. Manafort has not been "cooperative" and now they have him and his associate (who was in the Trump camp longer than him actually) on pretty serious charges - they will try to get a very high bail so that they are sitting in prison and it will be a race to see who "flips" first. It's not a coincidence they were both charged together.
It also will be interesting to see what happens with Flynn. He basically could have gotten these exact same charges - but did not (yet). He's basically offered to "sing" already.
Also, as for Manafort and these charges being unrelated to Russia - the first charges brought in this type of case are often low-level, information gathering charges. The fact that we're starting off at the level of a Manafort means there's not a lot of messing around. They are trying to get Manafort to talk, that's what this is about.
Keep in mind a lot of this conspiracy/collusion case relies on testimony, they aren't hard evidence crimes like tax evasion. They need people to talk. The question is - if Manafort or anyone does talk, will it reveal anything of significance at higher level stakes? The Papadopoulos case does indicate there's more than what is known out there to be found.
Overall, the Papadopoulos case is the most interesting on its face, even though it's not the bigger name. We had no idea about that - and it is directly related
d to Russia.
See my post above. In a case like this - which is based heavily on testimony - you have to get leverage. These charges create two types of leverage:
1. They will seek a very high bail and try to make sure they stay in prison. These are solid, fact-based cases and actually are more detailed than your typical indictment (i.e. they want to have a strong case for a high bail). You're much more likely to talk if you are sitting in a jail cell than if you're living your every day life at home on bail.
2. They arrested two of them at once - and basically will pit them against each other. Both are connected to the campaign and are both close to one another, so presumably they both know a lot (the lesser known individual was actually involved longer). Only one of them will get a plea deal most likely, so unless they are both willing to stay in prison, someone will likely talk. So it's a race to see who cooperates first.
And as I mentioned, the guilty plea in the other case is the most surprising/revealing. And directly related to Russia. That's a man involved with Trump that lied about Russian contacts to the FBI and has presumably been cooperating for 3 month unbeknownst to any of us. It gets very detailed, but the facts learned from what was released today on that case are not meaningless.
See my post above. In a case like this - which is based heavily on testimony - you have to get leverage. These charges create two types of leverage:
1. They will seek a very high bail and try to make sure they stay in prison. These are solid, fact-based cases and actually are more detailed than your typical indictment (i.e. they want to have a strong case for a high bail). You're much more likely to talk if you are sitting in a jail cell than if you're living your every day life at home on bail.
2. They arrested two of them at once - and basically will pit them against each other. Both are connected to the campaign and are both close to one another, so presumably they both know a lot (the lesser known individual was actually involved longer). Only one of them will get a plea deal most likely, so unless they are both willing to stay in prison, someone will likely talk. So it's a race to see who cooperates first.
And as I mentioned, the guilty plea in the other case is the most surprising/revealing. And directly related to Russia. That's a man involved with Trump that lied about Russian contacts to the FBI and has presumably been cooperating for 3 month unbeknownst to any of us. It gets very detailed, but the facts learned from what was released today on that case are not meaningless.
CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS-We now have definitive proof Trump was in bed with Russia.
Two of his very close friends and high ranking campaign officials have been caught red handed.
Time to impeach Trump, the election was rigged.
Fox, Two Trump campaign officials have been subpoenaed because of IRS tax issues. Both officials only served Trump for short periods of time in his campaign before being let go. One official only served for a month or two.
Two of his very close friends and high ranking campaign officials have been caught red handed.
Time to impeach Trump, the election was rigged.
Fox, Two Trump campaign officials have been subpoenaed because of IRS tax issues. Both officials only served Trump for short periods of time in his campaign before being let go. One official only served for a month or two.
Yep. The Pap case shows that all those who were saying "If there was anything to the Russian interference we would have heard about it" were dead wrong. This was kept under wraps and came out of left field. Probably more of these surprises to come.
There's certainly a ways to go, but I don't think you can brush today off as meaningless. And it opens a lot more additional questions, including who might else be working with the FBI? There was a report that came out in Sepember about the White House being paranoid about people wearing wires.
And while Trump is certainly a unique individual, the behavior exhibited by him and many people around him is certainly not of someone who has nothing to hide. This Pap case is a perfect example - what was his motivation in lying to federal investigators about the timing of meetings? You don't lie under oath to investigators if there's nothing to hide.
and then...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...dab5a0ab381_story.html?utm_term=.56f257207a36
this is going to be a hoot.
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And isn't it amazing the timing....just when Hillary the C, Slick, Comey, and Jarret are all looking at being hammered.
Don't tell me this "special" prosecutor isn't as crooked as Hillary.
What crimes.....innocent until proven guilty and so far, even with these arrests no crime has been proven.
The only thing I didn't add from fox is I'm sure they will bring up the HRC collusion.
You missed the Trump campaign associate who was arrested at an airport getting off a flight in the summer that then flipped and became a cooperating witness for federal investigators over the past few months and pled guilty as part of a deal?
Guess when you plead guilty, no crime has been committed now?
Nope. And for anyone with any knowledge of cases like this, the first charges are not the last. These charges are to get Manafort (or his associate) to cooperate with the investigation, which they have not. This has nothing to do with "this is all they have".
This doesn't necessarily mean they will find anything larger (although there's still a lot on the table - Flynn could be charged with similar charges, but many suspect he's flipped).
The bigger news is the guy you haven't heard of - who was working with the Trump campaign and talking to Russia at the same time - with a Manafort and campaign officials link. It could end up not being anything I suppose, but I don't know why you'd lie to federal investigators about timing of meetings if there was nothing to hide. And he's been cooperating with the FBI since July after he was arrested getting off a plane. We had no idea about this.
Great, if someone committed a crime, they should absolutely be prosecuted and pay for it. I don't care what party they are members of. I'm not the one trying to divert attention, make up stuff, create fake controversies.
I've been measured in my comments on this Russia investigation. I think there's been a lot of smoke and a lot hasn't added up - combine that with people acting like they have stuff to hide given the number of lies they've been caught in, seems like something was at least fishy. I'm not calling to call Robert Mueller a fraud because he's actually doing his job. That's a joke move.
I think those stories were coming out as a preemptive strike for what happened today. Fox has really been hammering the uranium story for the last couple of weeks.
Not to mention every Rupert Murdoch outlet started trashing Mueller all basically in unison.
Manafort is sleaze. Everyone knew that. He was a stupid pick. It was "duh" day. Manafort is sleaze and Spacey is gay for kids. Duh.
I don't like these special prosecutors. Didn't like them for President Clinton either.
I don't want them to be weaponized. Like the IRS under Obama. To think that there isn't a Democratic Manafort is naive. Maybe I am overreacting but is there a precedent being set? Don't like the outcome of an election? Go to war with investigations. I don't know. It is hard for me to express my feelings with text.
I agree in theory with you but Trump seems to have provided a awful lot of ammunition to his enemies.
That is subjective. Oppo would say that Clinton provided an awful lot of ammo.
I just hope the FBI is not political. The guilty should be punished.
There is plenty of division in this country. This doesn't help the division.
The precedent you're looking for is Trump firing the FBI Director and stating out loud it was because of the Russian investigation. This is 100% his own doing.
More details on the Papadopoulos case...
He was arrested getting off a plane on July 27th. On October 5th, he plead guilty. However, he's been described as a proactive cooperator since July when his arrest was sealed to keep secret. This indicates he was not just providing testimony, but he was likely wearing a wire or set up meetings, most likely for a significant amount of time until Oct 5, and perhaps longer.
He would not receive a plea deal as a "proactive cooperator" if he could not actually serve up anything - and probably not unless it was someone of significance.
The feds today also referred to him as a small part of a larger investigation - i.e. there's more to come.
The other angle is that Flynn could basically have been thrown the same charges as we saw brought today. Nobody knows what's going on with him. He's basically offered to flip, but we have no idea. So the $64,000 question is who would Papdopoulos have access to that would be worthy of a plea deal?
He was arrested getting off a plane on July 27th. On October 5th, he plead guilty. However, he's been described as a proactive cooperator since July when his arrest was sealed to keep secret. This indicates he was not just providing testimony, but he was likely wearing a wire or set up meetings, most likely for a significant amount of time until Oct 5, and perhaps longer.
He would not receive a plea deal as a "proactive cooperator" if he could not actually serve up anything - and probably not unless it was someone of significance.
The feds today also referred to him as a small part of a larger investigation - i.e. there's more to come.
The other angle is that Flynn could basically have been thrown the same charges as we saw brought today. Nobody knows what's going on with him. He's basically offered to flip, but we have no idea. So the $64,000 question is who would Papdopoulos have access to that would be worthy of a plea deal?
I wish Trump would at least impose the sanctions congress asked him to against Russia... Trump’s reaction to Russia and Putin has always been really, really wierd.
Fox has to because CNN and the other liberal lefties won't.
And Manafort committed these "financial crimes" prior to being on Trump's campaign, from 2006 - 2014. He was dealing with the Ukrainians. Where's the actual Trump Russian collusion the left has been pushing for the last year?
Mueller and Rod Rosenstein have their fingerprints all over the UraniumOne case. It isn't a coincidence that Mueller came out with this stuff today. They know that the heat is getting closer to the real Russian collusion, and it's a diversion tactic. The bogus Russian "golden shower" dossier is another real example of Russian collusion.
I've said for months that Manafort and/or Flynn would be and probably should be implicated in this. Trump made bad decisions to have these guys on his campaign, but that doesn't mean he's guilty of "Russian collusion".
If they had anything on Trump himself, you can be damn sure it would have leaked out by now.
