Probably true and if a kid on that roster AKA carsen Edward who was a freshman right whether senior or not he will play the best players who will help this team win that is a fact and Nojel will play more than you no why bcuz he is talented and will help give purdue best chance to win as well as other freshman if they give purdue best chance to win.
Courtney Ramey
- Thread starter BoilerAndy
- Start date
I am not. I really like the potential of some of the players on the roster and the 2018 class. Just don't think it's fair to them or the upperclassmen to say they will took us to these heights, or better than some really good teams these past couple years, when most of them have zero college experience. I do think if we can add someone like Keion Brooks, our outlook for the 2019-20 season looks very, very good.
Let me ask you this let's say they didn't get but 1 recruit for 17/18 season you think that senior heavy team can get back to sweet 16 or win the big 10 tournament again. Why did they loose to Kansas last year. Why did MP put emphasis on recruiting size,athleticism and length I do believe that is what theee freshman represent. They need these guys as much as these freshman need them why it's called team and why the fit the personality of the current seniors. We'll see soon enough what these young bucks can do. Last I check those seniors were freshman once upon a time and it took them time to gain experience so will this group of talented freshman
I'm not disputing anything you say ... but ... it is clear that many programs are recruiting athletes over skilled players. I think Shaka started this at VCU, and I think we have lost games to teamss more athletic but less skilled than we were. If we can find SKILLED athletes.... KaBAM
ok, let's look at it in a different perspective.
I believe at this point in time PJ > Eastern. Haas > haarms. V Edwards > V Edwards of last year.
Swanigan came to Purdue and started as a freshman and was very good as a freshman. Did he make ALL Big10? Swanigan was even better as a Sophomore.
our current Seniors all played significant minutes as freshmen. and they each improved as each year passed.
I believe C Edwards will make tremendous leaps this year as a sophomore and be even better next year. . I believe Eastern will see a lot of playing time and improve a lot. I believe Wheeler has yet to show his true talent, the same with Haarms.
in saying all that, I can understand the skepticism. our new additions haven't really proven what they can do yet. and our incoming recruits are still in high school. however, I counter that wit h these players have proven themselves on many occasions - just not wearing Purdue colors. people here are all excited about PJ's brother. Why? because he's proving his abilities against older athletes in a class above him. the vast majority of painter's recruits have proven they can compete against older competition. So my point is just because they haven't proven themselves in college action, they have proven themselves against players who are now in college.
I believe last year was a great year. I believe this year will be a great year. but I believe next year will be even better. And why?
C Edwards will be a junior next year. I expect him to explode this year and be even better next year.
Eastern will receive plenty of playing this year and will provide a new dimension next year at point.
I believe both Hunter and Ramey are good enough to start as freshmen. Will they be as good individually as Mathias currently is ? No. But I believe they will prove as freshmen that they belong and will be better long term. .
I believe the combo next year of C Edwards, Eastern and Hunter/Ramey in the back court will be better than this year's combo of PJ, C Edwards and Mathias.
As for the frontcourt. V Edwards is what he is. Edwards is one of the better forwards in college basketball. People at MSU would probably claim Bridges is better. others would claim bridges is a SF and Edwards is a PF. in the NBA, they will play the same position: forward. Haas has great offensive skills and is lacking rebounding and shot blocking. Who will we replace Haas and Edwards with? We have a lot of depth in Wheeler, Ewing, Haarms, Taylor, and throw in Williams and Dow. the biggest question to answer is out of that group, who will emerge as a starter to replace Haas and V Edwards? Who will start at Center? Taylor? Ewing? Haarms? Taylor would have the most experience. my preference would be Dow. the big question is Dow talented enough to be a starter for Purdue next year, and is he good enough to be better than Haas will be this year. I can understand where many would say no. But Dow has an entire year to work on his skills in high school. I believe the DOW you see in march will be 10 times better than the Dow you see now.
and the $million dollar question - who replaces V Edwards? Some would say Wheeler. Wheeler will gain experience this year, but even I won't say Wheeler will be better than Edwards. so you look at the other possibilities. none of them will be better individually than Edwards. however, is it possible a certain frontcourt combination could be better than the current Haas/Edwards combo? Would a combo of Williams/Taylor or Williams/DOW be a better match for our expected back court?
as I look at this year's team, I see PJ, Edwards, Mathais , Edwards and Haas as starters unless injuries etc. that's a great team.
However, as I look to next year I see Eastern, Edwards, Hunter, with Williams and DOW in the front court for a nice blend of shooting and rebounding.
Is what I see going to happen? probably not. Would Painter start 3 freshmen in the same year? Yikes, very doubtful. But I do believe his current 3 commits have the talent to start. and if the y don't start, we will have some other talented players who will gain experience this year and will be ready next year. Next year's seniors will include Taylor, Cline and Ewing. Haarms , Eastern, Wheeler and Sasha will all play this year and be ready. Let's not forget, Haarms already had 1 semester at Purdue last year.
Based on what they've accomplished at Purdue, I can't say positively next year's team will be better than this year's team. because it will be very hard to improve on a 25+ win team. but I do believe next year's team will have more athleticism and the potential to be better. the floor might not be as high, but I believe the ceiling will be.
I believe at this point in time PJ > Eastern. Haas > haarms. V Edwards > V Edwards of last year.
Swanigan came to Purdue and started as a freshman and was very good as a freshman. Did he make ALL Big10? Swanigan was even better as a Sophomore.
our current Seniors all played significant minutes as freshmen. and they each improved as each year passed.
I believe C Edwards will make tremendous leaps this year as a sophomore and be even better next year. . I believe Eastern will see a lot of playing time and improve a lot. I believe Wheeler has yet to show his true talent, the same with Haarms.
in saying all that, I can understand the skepticism. our new additions haven't really proven what they can do yet. and our incoming recruits are still in high school. however, I counter that wit h these players have proven themselves on many occasions - just not wearing Purdue colors. people here are all excited about PJ's brother. Why? because he's proving his abilities against older athletes in a class above him. the vast majority of painter's recruits have proven they can compete against older competition. So my point is just because they haven't proven themselves in college action, they have proven themselves against players who are now in college.
I believe last year was a great year. I believe this year will be a great year. but I believe next year will be even better. And why?
C Edwards will be a junior next year. I expect him to explode this year and be even better next year.
Eastern will receive plenty of playing this year and will provide a new dimension next year at point.
I believe both Hunter and Ramey are good enough to start as freshmen. Will they be as good individually as Mathias currently is ? No. But I believe they will prove as freshmen that they belong and will be better long term. .
I believe the combo next year of C Edwards, Eastern and Hunter/Ramey in the back court will be better than this year's combo of PJ, C Edwards and Mathias.
As for the frontcourt. V Edwards is what he is. Edwards is one of the better forwards in college basketball. People at MSU would probably claim Bridges is better. others would claim bridges is a SF and Edwards is a PF. in the NBA, they will play the same position: forward. Haas has great offensive skills and is lacking rebounding and shot blocking. Who will we replace Haas and Edwards with? We have a lot of depth in Wheeler, Ewing, Haarms, Taylor, and throw in Williams and Dow. the biggest question to answer is out of that group, who will emerge as a starter to replace Haas and V Edwards? Who will start at Center? Taylor? Ewing? Haarms? Taylor would have the most experience. my preference would be Dow. the big question is Dow talented enough to be a starter for Purdue next year, and is he good enough to be better than Haas will be this year. I can understand where many would say no. But Dow has an entire year to work on his skills in high school. I believe the DOW you see in march will be 10 times better than the Dow you see now.
and the $million dollar question - who replaces V Edwards? Some would say Wheeler. Wheeler will gain experience this year, but even I won't say Wheeler will be better than Edwards. so you look at the other possibilities. none of them will be better individually than Edwards. however, is it possible a certain frontcourt combination could be better than the current Haas/Edwards combo? Would a combo of Williams/Taylor or Williams/DOW be a better match for our expected back court?
as I look at this year's team, I see PJ, Edwards, Mathais , Edwards and Haas as starters unless injuries etc. that's a great team.
However, as I look to next year I see Eastern, Edwards, Hunter, with Williams and DOW in the front court for a nice blend of shooting and rebounding.
Is what I see going to happen? probably not. Would Painter start 3 freshmen in the same year? Yikes, very doubtful. But I do believe his current 3 commits have the talent to start. and if the y don't start, we will have some other talented players who will gain experience this year and will be ready next year. Next year's seniors will include Taylor, Cline and Ewing. Haarms , Eastern, Wheeler and Sasha will all play this year and be ready. Let's not forget, Haarms already had 1 semester at Purdue last year.
Based on what they've accomplished at Purdue, I can't say positively next year's team will be better than this year's team. because it will be very hard to improve on a 25+ win team. but I do believe next year's team will have more athleticism and the potential to be better. the floor might not be as high, but I believe the ceiling will be.
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If we take a step back it will be early next season, and only a small step back. The ceiling is incredibly high with all of the athleticism and Purdue should be an incredibly fun team to watch. They may still add a guard too. Eastern/Wheeler/Carsen give me so much to be excited about next year. As long as everybody improves, next year should be special. They may slip 2-4 games they shouldn't lose, but they could just as easily win some games they shouldn't. It's all conjecture at this point because we haven't even seen this season play out yet.
Next year's junior class, Carsen, very high on him, but he's the only one in his class! Senior class will be Cline, Ewing, and Taylor. Cline the only one to have played any meaningful minutes as a solid backup. The rest have not played a single minute of college basketball,and while full of potential (no one is arguing that) you can only speculate how good are. 2018 will be a step back because our junior and senior classes next year are very thin. Unless literally all our freshman play like 5 stars, land Ramey (which is heavily recruited) we lose way too much in one year from graduating seniors for them to be better. With that being said, 2019 I think will be Painters best team to date. This is no knock on our upcoming classes either, but respecting how good our senior class is this year!
the problem with JJJ, is he wouldn't be there next year anyway. neither he or bridges will be there for MSU
I can agree with that. the following year if Carsen remains as a senior will be a special year. I will add Ewing has played significant minutes of college ball albeit at a junior college. I' m not sure how you measure the amount of college ball Ewing has played and excelled at the junior circuit against the amount of ball Cline and Taylor have played at the senior circuit. Either way, all three players should see considerable playing time this year.
the main part of my assessment is that Hunter, DOW and Williams and Ramey(if he signs) would be good enough to start as freshmen. and that Eastern, Haarms and Wheeler gain enough experience this year to elevate their game next year.
Admittedly , that's a lot of unknowns and ifs. But I believe they have the talent, the confidence and the coach to pull it off.
OK, I 'm OK with what you say. I'm also OK with the success that KY and NC, Duke, KS, MSU have starting Freshmen. There is support for both theories. It appears to me that with ALL the one and dones and ALL the lower class players taken in the NBA draft that experience is not what most of us think it is. I haven't done the research, so I'm not sure which has proven to be the most bebeficial in the past few years, but it seems to me that the younger players are generally the better players.
Are you really comparing the talent level of those freshmen with the talent level of ours? It isn't comparable. Like at all. Those guys could skip college and go pro immediately if it were allowed.
no, not comparing, simply suggesting that first year players can play at a high level. To assume the first year players are weak is not valid. Do you thinkk that Eastern or Ramey would not play and contribute at those schools?
It appears that you want to dispute that our freshmen are not as good as the blueblood's. OK, I won't argue that, but where did I say that they were in my post. My points that younger players are generally who go in the draft and are often the best players on their teams are valid.
Go find someone else to stroke your ego on.
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Duke and UK no they wouldn't. Kansas, MSU, and UNC they might get limited time.
How can I be any "nicer." I accepted the original post and even said I agreed with it athough I could agree with the alternative concept. If you need to win some debate to feel good, go somewhre else.
You edited your response with the 2nd paragraph. I was clearly responding to the first paragraph. Posting on this board has no impact on my feelings, so I think I'll stay.
ok, I can agree with the second expressed sentiment. So what you are saying is if the newcomers were named Langford, Porter, or JJJ , then you'd agree they would/could start and our team would be better.
if we had a team of Langford, Eastern , C Edwards, JJJ and Porter, you'd agree that team would be better than this year's team.
So it's not about youth and talent verses experience. But rather you don't believe our 2017 class and 2018 commitments are a great enough talent to start and make us an even more dominant team.
You like Dow, hunter and Williams, but not enough to proclaim them as instant starters and difference makers next year. but maybe in 2-3 years.
if we had a team of Langford, Eastern , C Edwards, JJJ and Porter, you'd agree that team would be better than this year's team.
So it's not about youth and talent verses experience. But rather you don't believe our 2017 class and 2018 commitments are a great enough talent to start and make us an even more dominant team.
You like Dow, hunter and Williams, but not enough to proclaim them as instant starters and difference makers next year. but maybe in 2-3 years.
I agree to an extent. But I feel the members of our 2017 class and 2018 commitments are a lot better than our seniors were when they first committed. I feel this 2018 class will be special. and add Eastern and C Edwards to it, and I like our future.
I'm very optimistic, but team chemistry isn't an automatic with the individually best players. Matt is expected to win and as he always says...the players control how much they play. As of today, I don't have a good feel for Haarms, Wheeler, Edwards and Shasha. I do have some feel for Nojel. I have no idea if Carsen has improved his shot selection and just how much he has improved? I can't use the WUG as a measure. Will Taylor be able to handle the long season? There could be a time Purdue doesn't play a true center and then who is in the mix? I'm optimistic...I like who Matt has, but there is so much I don't know about these kids and the improvments in the returnees. It is also possible that a team could be better or worse than a previous year and the win a losses are conflicting with what was considered a better or worse team. The other side has something to do with that record.
Youo're welcome to stay. I'm just tired of posters using this board to boost their low self-esteem. Posting your (general, not YOU) thoughts regarding a topic, then fine.But belittling another poster who essentially agreed with a post and added furher aspects to it, then WHY? what is the point? It happens all the time. I'm not here to be attacked for my thoughts.
I was not at all meaning to belittle you. If it came across that way, then my bad. I was just stating that it isn't accurate to compare our freshmen with the blue bloods (I thought you were doing this, but I guess that's not what you meant).
Accepted, thank you. You are new here. And welcome to add your thoughts. We need more solid thinking posters. I am just so tired of posting my thoughts and getting attacked. You will probably see what I mean. No harm no foul ... welcome, and I sincerely mean that.
She asked about one recruit for the 17/18 season. That's what I was responding to. If we would have landed just JJJ I was stating that yes, we would have an excellent chance to win B1G and sweet 16 again. We wouldn't need any other recruits in that class to make that a very good possibility.
JJ hasn't played a game yet at the college level so you assume he would just come to purdue and make them much better. Why I cannot wait till season starts bcuz what I have been saying since ive been on this board that many on this board thinks bcuz a player whether at Kentucky Duke Kansas or even mich st is better than a player at purdue Indiana wake forest etc especially freshman. JJ has 3 other big in front of him for playing time well see what he is made of when season starts. I no for a fact mich at players played in money ball in summer league and JJ struggled mightily playing against college age players and HS players. I no a guy who writes for Michigan st and told me all about who did what playing in that league and JJ did so much at all. I will stand on what I no we'll see what all these Freshman are made of no matter the team when season plays out.
My played with many of those kids at Kentucky Duke Kansas Louisville and was killing them at USA tryouts in Colorado Springs a year ago shut down Gary Trent gave Kevin Knox problems was on same team as Wendal carter but bcuz he wasn't ranked high those schools by passed him. He could of played at anyone of those blue blood schools they were recruiting him at one point until he got hurt and than some backed off. He came back and was killing is junior and senior year won many awards but never received the accolades they did bcuzhewasnt ranked high all them freshman will not play this year on those teams log jam and bcu the pressure on them to perform some will struggle I'm telling you it's gonna happen sent it a thousand times over. Nojel is really really good and when season begins you all will see what I'm talking about. I'm sitting in there practice right now and this team is gonna be really really good as Matt harms is gonna surprise some of you how good he is and he can guard 5 positions and run the floor
Vince played and contributed big as a freshman. He was in the 120 range. The following year, Biggie contributed big as a freshman, but that was to be expected as a top 25 kid. The following year Carsen contributed big as a freshman. This year I expect Eastern to contribute big as a freshman. There is no reason that Hunter, Williams, Dowuana can't contribute big as a freshman. Dakota averages around 10 points, PJ around 7, Haas and Vince around 12. I expect Vince to move up around 15-20 ppg. I expect the others to increase slightly. Next year I expect Carsen to be close to 20 ppg, which will account for Vince leaving. Although the '14 class is my favorite behind the baby boilers, it would be crazy to say the are irreplaceable. I love PJ, but Eastern has the potential as a sophomore to get the nod as an improvement there. Carsen as a junior should be better than as a sophomore. Wheeler as a sophomore could be just as good as Mathias, maybe a small step down. Williams is a monster and although he doesn't compare to Vince, he provides a lot that Vince can't. Haarms va Haas is interesting. Haas has stone hands and misses bunnies. It isn't all his fault because he is mugged every play, but he can't step out and fouls a lot. Haarms can spread out and pull their big man. He has also been praised by Painter. Yes, the '14 class will leave a void, but there is plenty waiting to fill it. The cupboards are full right now and that doesn't even take into account a possible fifth year transfer. Again... we haven't gotten through his year so it is all semantics. Let's win this year first and rack up some wins over Louisville, Arizon, MSU, Nova. I'd love to see the team as a top 5 team early!
I am soooo happy you said Matt is really good. I've seen signs but not while playing at Purdue. If Matt gets major minutes, Purdue is really going to be good. Already have my tickets and ready to enjoy watching this team and the players growth
Preach on, Treed!
I am already a believer, but your words are manna nonetheless. I have never seen a Purdue PG like Nojel, and I have never seen a Purdue poster like you
This post of yours has everything
1. Faith and belief in your son? Check
2. Faith and belief in our coach? Check
3. Faith and belief in the team? Check
4. Deep understanding and experience with high level basketball? Check
5. Doing it for the right reasons? Check
6. Insider knowledge? Check
You are a most welcome addition to the forum, and I look forward to saying hello to you in games
PS. Glad to see you reaffirm Haarms' quality. Painter said the same thing in an interview, but always good to get it seconded by a knowledgable source
I've heard several folks talk about how Haarms is going to surprise (in a good way). Glad to hear it from you too. And you know I think Nojel is going to be special.
I'm all about team so is my son and what I'm I suppose to do. Not think this team or players are good. I've been around this whole basketball landscape for over 10 years seen it all and I mean Seen it all and trust me I o all those kids that shouts always talk about bcuz they ranked high and once them games start for all the Freshman this season rankings, star status and HS scouts can't help none of them now but the Espn scouts like jay bilas, jay Williams, vitale and others will now critique there games and we'll see just how good they are once them lights are on on the big stage in front of 17,000 or more fans screaming your name and you can't hear the coach talking to you and the amount of pressure they the kids at the blue bloods schools will have to perform will be real. This not HS anymore this is big boy ball now and no upperclassmen gives a darn about your ranking or status why bcuz some was in their shoes and now humbled bcuz they too were In the same shoes they were in years ago. This team as I keep saying will be good. Matt harms, ewing, wheeler and noje all freak athletes. Purdue got shooters galore. Watching them practice made me even more convinced how scary this team gonna be come tournament time. 1 month and counting it's boiling time in west Lafayette
I thought Taylor was going to be our secret weapon this year. We have so many secret weapons, our opponents aren't going to know what hit them.
No doubt Painter added some pieces that we lacked last year. But we also lose an All-American in Swanigan. That's why I don't think we will be quite as good as last year. Swanigan was so dominant. At Maryland, at Michigan State, etc. We just don't have a player who's going to dominate like that. People already forget how good he was. Kansas was just a great team playing out of their mind at basically Allen Fieldhouse. People actually wanted to face them rather than MSU in the Sweet 16.
Yeah, some posters on the premium board said so. It was the whole "it's hard to beat a good team three times" thing.
You asked if we would have only gotten 1 recruit for the 17/18 season, would we be likely to repeat B1G and sweet 16? My answer is yes, if that 1 recruit would have been JJJ. If we would have signed him, we would be the favorite to win the conference. Nothing is guaranteed, including our freshmen being big contributors. Just answering the question you posed.
I hope all the players on Purdue's team play well, and while its fun to talk about our expectations, I always go by "Talk means nothing, its what you do". One thing I don't understand is a few posters are saying the 2018 freshmen will be good enough to start, maybe they will, but unless you have seen them play a lot and are pretty knowledgeable I don't see how you can say that. Looking forward to a great season, with a team of really good players, I trust in Painter to get the right guys on the floor. Just my 2 cents.
It is a team game.......
If the underclassmen can achieve the chemistry of the senior class and adopt the same work ethic, well then they have a chance to be as good or better.
To get back on topic, I am hopeful CR gives us a good look because he would put this class over the top...already a good one, but with his skill set it could be great!
PS......I hope J. Taylor can give his all when he gets his opportunities to do so.....he deserves that much for the effort and passion he has put into Purdue and they have put into him.
Boiler Up!
If the underclassmen can achieve the chemistry of the senior class and adopt the same work ethic, well then they have a chance to be as good or better.
To get back on topic, I am hopeful CR gives us a good look because he would put this class over the top...already a good one, but with his skill set it could be great!
PS......I hope J. Taylor can give his all when he gets his opportunities to do so.....he deserves that much for the effort and passion he has put into Purdue and they have put into him.
Boiler Up!
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