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Carsen Edwards * Denzel Valentine

InModeration

Sophomore
Dec 2, 2017
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Momma’s Basement
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Always got a chuckle out of the MSU faithful and their love/unlove feelings toward Valentine. They'd often say...'Denzel is the only guy that can keep your team and the other team in the game at the same time'. In a lot of ways we've seen this with Carsen over his 1-1/2 years at Purdue. I for one am glad to see CMP let him play thru some rough stretches. And just like Valentine, cream rises to the top. Keep up the good work Carsen!
 
I think that every time Carsen hits a three on the opening possession of the game from here on out, I am going to pause the game and go make a little cooler so I don't have to go get a beer for the rest of the game. At some point he is going to get white hot and go for a big number
 
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As Carson gets more game experience, he will get more consistent. That is to say he will start hot and progress to white-hot as the game goes on, in almost every game.
 
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His shot selection is soooooooo much better this year. he is playing well
This and feel like he isn’t forcing the 3 as much. He went through that slump but was still putting up 15 or more a game because he was driving. Also his moves when driving are impressive to keep defenders guessing.

I remember seeing the videos of him working with that shooting coach out of Indy this summer. If I can find the link I’ll share them because he is using a lot of that stuff
 
This and feel like he isn’t forcing the 3 as much. He went through that slump but was still putting up 15 or more a game because he was driving. Also his moves when driving are impressive to keep defenders guessing.

I remember seeing the videos of him working with that shooting coach out of Indy this summer. If I can find the link I’ll share them because he is using a lot of that stuff
yes...would enjoy seeing people working on shooting
 
yes...would enjoy seeing people working on shooting
Only one I can find right now. Mostly working on floaters but he does some high dribbles before a change of speed and take a shot. When he did that 4-1 fast break he did something similar
 
Only one I can find right now. Mostly working on floaters but he does some high dribbles before a change of speed and take a shot. When he did that 4-1 fast break he did something similar
Well, I'm old, but don't get the high dribbles? Physics says for a given speed the longer the travel the more time the ball is not in your control and perhaps problematic in traffic, but not for speed dribbling. I understand the intention to make your last dribble before shooting a little harder to start push off the floor and get the shot going. That was one of the emphasis in the 1-2 step for Baumgartner. Another old teaching of the jab step was a 45 degree step as this is the only way to truly gain an advantage. If you step sideways with your step...you may just move the D sideways as well, but if you step at a 45 degree you not only move the D sideway, but back as well if you want to just pull up for a jumper..and then add a Rocker step to blow by. Carsen did make a floater the last game and don't recall him using that last year. Anyway, yuo can see he worked on his floater even if I don't fully understand some of the things going on. Thank you or the link and it is good to see these players wanting to improve outside of the team practices...

Interesting in that 1 on 4 he scored on ...I thought he just fumbled the ball for a minute...
 
Well, I'm old, but don't get the high dribbles? Physics says for a given speed the longer the travel the more time the ball is not in your control and perhaps problematic in traffic, but not for speed dribbling. I understand the intention to make your last dribble before shooting a little harder to start push off the floor and get the shot going. That was one of the emphasis in the 1-2 step for Baumgartner. Another old teaching of the jab step was a 45 degree step as this is the only way to truly gain an advantage. If you step sideways with your step...you may just move the D sideways as well, but if you step at a 45 degree you not only move the D sideway, but back as well if you want to just pull up for a jumper..and then add a Rocker step to blow by. Carsen did make a floater the last game and don't recall him using that last year. Anyway, yuo can see he worked on his floater even if I don't fully understand some of the things going on. Thank you or the link and it is good to see these players wanting to improve outside of the team practices...

Interesting in that 1 on 4 he scored on ...I thought he just fumbled the ball for a minute...

I think I get what they're teaching, and the best way I can explain is through football. When you see an offensive player with the ball, he frequently isn't going "all out". He'll "go slow to go fast", 3/4 speed, see how you're defending/committing, then get a burst.

Don't know if it translates, but that's what I'm seeing.
 
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I'm considered a very pessimistic fan, and I love Carsen. I'm not sure how anyone can dislike how he plays.

Agree. And I don’t remember any hate for valentine either. It seemed like he was a media darling.

Although he certainly did screw up in the game at Mackey, allowing boilers to escape.
 
Valentine was national POY and MSU still could not get past the first round game in the NCAA's. Neither could we. The only thing that made our loss more palatable was the MSU loss with POY Valentine.
 
I think I get what they're teaching, and the best way I can explain is through football. When you see an offensive player with the ball, he frequently isn't going "all out". He'll "go slow to go fast", 3/4 speed, see how you're defending/committing, then get a burst.

Don't know if it translates, but that's what I'm seeing.
Actually, a change up whether pitching in baseball, running in football or in dribbling in basketball has always been practiced adn always taught. My question was not in speed change...fully understand that...my question was teaching a high dribble in traffic. Course a high dribble is part of a speed dribble, but a speed dribble is not a guarded dribble, but in speed down teh court where the ball is pushed farther out in front and higher.
 
Actually, a change up whether pitching in baseball, running in football or in dribbling in basketball has always been practiced adn always taught. My question was not in speed change...fully understand that...my question was teaching a high dribble in traffic. Course a high dribble is part of a speed dribble, but a speed dribble is not a guarded dribble, but in speed down teh court where the ball is pushed farther out in front and higher.

My best guess would be two fold:

1: avoiding swiping hands that typically are lower
2: if it’s a floater, the higher bounce might allow for an easier time to gather the ball since it is a slightly different shooting form.
 
Actually, a change up whether pitching in baseball, running in football or in dribbling in basketball has always been practiced adn always taught. My question was not in speed change...fully understand that...my question was teaching a high dribble in traffic. Course a high dribble is part of a speed dribble, but a speed dribble is not a guarded dribble, but in speed down teh court where the ball is pushed farther out in front and higher.

Apparently I was looking at something different than what you were pointing out.

Additionally, a change up in baseball is completely different than the point I was making.
 
My best guess would be two fold:

1: avoiding swiping hands that typically are lower
2: if it’s a floater, the higher bounce might allow for an easier time to gather the ball since it is a slightly different shooting form.
I admit I don't know what the reason is. A layup has a high release and you don't dribble shoulder high for that. Again, the laws of physics say there is more chance to steal a ball the higher the bounce when guarded..AND somewhere I pointed out a jab step needing to be a 45 degree angle for full effectiveness and then to teach the Rocker Step as another option. There may be reasons "why", but I can't figure them out and I don't want to say they are wrong, because I could be missing something. Now, "IF" you are not really guarded...I could buy the higher bounce to get into a floater...but if you are going into traffic it takes longer to leave the hand, hit the floor and return to the hand than if you decrease that distance for a given force. If you want to steal a ball on the dribble, you make your move as soon as it leaves the hand since that is the most available time to make your move...
 
I admit I don't know what the reason is. A layup has a high release and you don't dribble shoulder high for that. Again, the laws of physics say there is more chance to steal a ball the higher the bounce when guarded..AND somewhere I pointed out a jab step needing to be a 45 degree angle for full effectiveness and then to teach the Rocker Step as another option. There may be reasons "why", but I can't figure them out and I don't want to say they are wrong, because I could be missing something. Now, "IF" you are not really guarded...I could buy the higher bounce to get into a floater...but if you are going into traffic it takes longer to leave the hand, hit the floor and return to the hand than if you decrease that distance for a given force. If you want to steal a ball on the dribble, you make your move as soon as it leaves the hand since that is the most available time to make your move...
I’m not sure the reason but just my perspective here as a former swimmer and swim coach. We did a lot of stroke drills and some of them had exaggerated motions. One for freestyle was to drag you fingers along the water because it helped with proper elbow position. Perhaps the goal of this isn’t to do a high dribble but for something else
 
I’m not sure the reason but just my perspective here as a former swimmer and swim coach. We did a lot of stroke drills and some of them had exaggerated motions. One for freestyle was to drag you fingers along the water because it helped with proper elbow position. Perhaps the goal of this isn’t to do a high dribble but for something else
It could be anything, but some people aren't as detailed as others either
 
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