I keep seeing us listed in bowl projections. How many more games do we have to win to play in one? I would think 1 or 2?
Bowl game
- Thread starter WarrenCoBoiler
- Start date
It's going to be a strangely fluid situation this year. I thought I read that there weren't any win requirements this year. But then who knows if the bowls are going to be able to operate with little or no fans anyway. If we get to 5-3 or 4-4 I'd bet we'd play somewhere, but buckle up because it'll be a bumpy ride after 12/19.
I would just be happy to get a few more wins or least beat IU. Bowl games are going to suck and NC selection will be a shitshow.
All this in year 4? I’m tired of hearing about the youth, there was talk of this year being better, then Covid... now I’m hearing next year is it, but it sure as hell doesn’t look like it. I see no real improvement, no development of more than a few guys and our strength and conditioning? Depth is not there, discipline is not there, the coaches don’t seem willing to fit their scheme with the player’s abilities. it’s one excuse after another. Wait til next year, he’s building the program, I would like to see it. I became a fan in the 80’s and my first 13 years of fandom? No winning seasons, no bowl games. I loved watching the bowl games, the different matchups, the different cities, the jersey patches, I loved it all and only hoped on day my beloved Boilermakers would make it. Along comes Tiller and I loved it. I still pine for a bowl game every year. I have no grand illusions of big ten championships, playoff bowls but just would love to see 6, 7, 8+ wins every year. Why is that so hard in West Lafayette? I’m born and raised in Iowa, so tell me what I’m missing. Boiler Up! POTFH!
they don’t want to do the hard work and they just want to rely on less talented players that make it easy on them cause fans don’t see that one big broken play.
I bet you there are coaches who are really nfl head coach material.. who would have had Marvin grant ready to start this year. Tillers staff got stu out there as a true freshman and 1) he wasn’t more physically talented than Marvin 2) Stu is on the big ten network 2000 special talking about how he didn’t know anything lol..
all that big time recruiting and you don’t have someone who can push dedrick Mackey to be the starter?
rondale out so you waste games putting an outside receiver in the slot.. a receiver who is capable of creating mismatches against no one.. I like amad but he needs to be backing Wright up on the outside.
And that’s just what we know .. I bet if we knew everything we’d be saying that there are coaches who would have Stephen faucheux ready (Sullivan got in last year) and others ready.
and where is the coaching to say “hey David.. this dude is grabbing you with both hands with the ball in the air, next time you grab him and push him into the stands and make it hard on the officials.”
but that’s why I’m looking forward to IU. Either we win and I’m happy we won. Or... we lose and people who are normally rah rah types start saying hey wait a minute ..
2016 class (RS Seniors)
National Rank - 80 Big Rank - 14
2017 class (RS JR - SR)
National Rank - 72 Big Rank - 14
2018 class (RS SO - JR)
National Rank - 52 Big Rank - 11
2019 class (RS FR - SO)
National Rank - 25. Big Rank - 5
2019 class (FR)
National Rank - 32. Big Rank - 7
Average rank of our top 3 classes (Upperclassman who have had time to develop physically) is 13th in the Big Ten. I would say Brohm is over achieving based on talent recruited.
I don’t care how talented you think our last two classes are, it is unrealistic and I would say incredible unreasonable to ask them to regularly out perform people of equal and greater talent who are 2-3 years older (as a unit).
In my opinion that is what you and many others are missing.
he’s not overachieving .. there’s no reason coach busey In Bloomington has 11 athletic defenders and we have 38 and 1 with 85 schollies
Allen is benefiting from Wilson’s recruit classes. You’re better than this garbage
So because another team is also overachieving based on results vs recruiting ranking, we aren’t? Brohm has finished what 8th, 8th, and 11th in the Big with Upper classmen who based off of ratings should have finished 13th or 14th every year.
I am sorry the results are not to your liking. And I think we are both in agreement that we want to continue to see good recruiting classes and improving Big finishes. But it is a fact that Brohm has clearly overachieved based on his on field talent in 2 of 3 years.
Hazell cratered the program. It takes years to rebuild. Not 3 but 7-10.
for any fans that remember how bad the Akers years were, it’s no coincidence it took. Colletto and tiller’s recruiting to turn it Around
Iu is on its 10th year of rebuilding. Let that sink in
hwy dude I don’t care if 38 people had their hands in the kitchen.. no reason it should be happening down there and not with brohm in year 4..
and it’s not so much that it’s year 4.. it’s that I see it continuing into year 5 and guys like that guy scraping for a reason to blame hazell for shit That happened in 2016
I don’t see how recruiting classes that were ranked low.. 4 of which brohm signed .. justify not having one quality safety who is ready to play next to cam Allen ..
You’re giving an argument for ...
“hey we played Ohio state last week and we hung tough but we just didn’t have the depth after the low recruiting classes .. so Ohio state clowned in the second half.”
one big ten quality safety who is ready to play now! One! I don’t wanna hear about Darrell hazell man ..
but at the end of the day, as long as you’re willing to have expectations and not bring Up hazell in 2021 we are cool
I haven’t mentioned Hazel once. I am just saying that going all the way back to 2013 Purdue has had the 13th or 14th rated class in the Big. Clearly Brohm has improved that a TON. It had only been improved to upper half the last two years though. So Brohm has in fact over achieved based on talent. In fact I could even make the argument that last year was on par with on field talent.
But sure lets fire the guy that has somehow talked the 5th and 7th rated Big classes (while we were the worst team in the Big 10) into attending before they are even upper class men.
That is what I’m talking about, Coach them up. Michigan, Minnesota, penn state, Nebraska, Iowa world beaters the last few years? No. No one in this conference besides Ohio state is on another level. We may not win every game but we also shouldn’t keep Illinois in the game this year. We should have put Minnesota away earlier this year. We shouldn’t have lost to Nevada or Illinois last year...We always use injuries, youth, no depth, hazel being awful as an excuse. Get the offensive masterminds that we have to work and win some football games with schemes. We always want to claim recruiting victories but what about winning games on the field?
Some of these rants are just downright idiotic.
When you look at many coaches over the years, they took many years to build/turnaround programs.
One of my favorite stories is Frank Beamer at Virginia Tech.
Beamer took over in 1987, and promptly went 2-9, 3-8, 6-4-1, 6-5, 5-6, then 2-8-1 (!!!), before even sniffing a bowl in 1993. The dude made progress, took a massive step backward before getting the program on solid footing.
Some people can be such bellyachers, demanding(!) we hold others to levels of performance they would never think of holding themselves.
I’m not advocating firing him nor have I ever .. we have the frost at Nebraska problem with brohm.. if not brohm then who??
i don’t think any future amazing coaches are dying to come here AND STAY HERE if we get rid of brohm
that said, I don’t think that with four recruiting classes AND TRANSFER OPPORTUNITIES.. we should have one big ten caliber safety who is ready to play now.
I can’t speak to your issue with a player. I have said in other threads that I don’t think he is that bad and I still believe that.
I do however agree with you that expectation should continue to climb. Obviously when the 5th and 7th rated classes are our top two classes the results on the field should be similar to that. If it’s not, then I will start wondering how good a coach Brohm is. But while he is turning out seasons 4-6 places above the talent which was recuited and then in turn turning those results into better recruiting classes I will stay patient.
Look he’s not bad.. in the sense of like David Owen .. David Owen just couldn’t play at this level. I literally watched Erasmus James lift Owen off the ground and throw him into Orton’s lap.
he’s exploitable. He’s a player opposing coaches can “mark”
I still look back at that 03 defense as the last time we had a defense with 11 guys where the opposing coaches couldn’t mark anyone .. if it was 10.. that might have been a whole Different season.
All I’m saying is we shouldn’t be happy in year 4 with hanging with northwestern then lose to Minnesota and be worried about beating an inferior Rutgers or Nebraska team. He’s got his quarterbacks, some of his offensive and defensive recruits and he hasn’t got them ready to play. We also need to use Durham, Bell and the others and not just cater to Moore every play. I’m not for firing him at all but let’s not keep waiting til next year and then waiting til next year... injuries, no depth yet, we’re young.... he’s recruiting... sure but can he Coach? In game adjustments and clock management have also been poor at times.
I don't understand what it matters if someone is happy or not, nor what difference it makes.
If a fan isn't happy, that doesn't change things in the least. Nor does carping on an internet forum.
I hate getting into a repeating match. I understand the desire for continuous improvement. I don’t think I am alone in remaining patient as long as he is finishing above expectations (recruiting talent wise) and turning those results into better classes. He has done that each year he has been here.
If you disagree then name the coach that took over a Big Ten program who’s 4 year average recruiting class was 70+ nationally and was yielding better 3 year results than Brohm.
For the record, IU was averaging classes in the low 50s nationally when their coach took over.
I’ll just wait and see. My expectations are fairly low, I just want competitiveness and bowl games every year.
who ever said any of this matters? If you want to talk significance.. college football is insignificant lol
I don't think you have low expectations. That seems very reasonable.
It also seems to be where we are.
2019 saw devastating injuries, derailing a very promising season. Absolutely devastating.
2020 is off to a decent start, especially considering a win was absolutely stolen from us.
We're in position for exactly that: a competitive season with a bowl game.
With the way this year is going and no guarantee on which games will be played, I’d take a Gas-X Bowl in Flint, Michigan if it just meant one more time I can watch my Boilers.
Exactly which players? Sure there are Wilson-era players contributing but 10/11 starters on defense are Allen recruits. Penix is an Allen recruit, as is Stevie Scott, Whop Phylior, Ty Fryfogle, Matthew Bedford, etc.
Allen HAS had the benefit of Wilson’s recruits throughout the entire duration of his time at IU. Brohm never had that luxury. Not even close.
Brohm was better with Hazell’s recruits than he is with his own. Allen is better with his own recruits than Wilson’s. Both were hired a day apart. What’s your argument?
You’re delusional. Brohm won in year 1 with Hazell leftovers and bringing in a significant number of grad transfers. Allen had the benefit of not having to completely rebuild an entire roster. Comparing the two situations is laughable.
IU is better today, playing almost exclusively with Allen’s recruits, than they were 4 years ago when Allen took over with Wilson’s recruits. I never once said Brohm walked into a better position than Allen, let alone implied it. But fact of the matter is that both coaches were hired within a day of each other and now in year 4, both are coaching with predominantly their recruits. One program is surging, the other can be categorized at best stagnating.
Them being hired within a day of each other literally means nothing. Purdue is better now than they were 4 years ago too. But we had a much bigger hole to climb out of then you did. It took Allen 3 seasons to get back to where Wilson had left things.
Where Wilson left things? They’re way past where Wilson left things. Wilson was .500 his last two years. Allen went 8-4 last year and is 4-1 this year ranked 12th in the country. Allen has IU light years ahead of where Wilson EVER had IU and he’s doing it with his own players.
Brohm's first class the 2018 class. he had the opportunity to cancel all of the commitments given to hazell, but he didn't. He also added many of his own recruited players from WKU to that class
I believe what most people are saying is that the posters here bashed Hazell's players so much, they expected any player off the street to be able to come in and beat them out for a starting job. and based on the performances of KG, King, and Rondale, and others, they ask if those players can start, why can't the other highly rated players from the last two classes start over those older less talented players?
to me this says three things. If the new players can't beat out the older players, then the older players must not be as bad as people have said they were. Or perhaps the newer players are not as good as their ranking suggested. what does it say about our highly rated players who are not starting by their second year? Does this mean we have not been able to develop them? or they haven't taken the initiative to step up their game? or they weren't that great to begin with? as for our great class ranking, a lot of it came from stockpiling grreat players at the receiver and qb and dback positions. Brohm didn't recruit great players at every position. so a lot of what generated that lofty class ranking will never start.
I'm very disappointed in people who claim IU's success is based on recruits who came to IU under Wilson. If you look at IU's class ranking when they were recruited, these players you claim are great were ranked as being worse than the players Hazell recruited to play for purdue. Nobody praised these players when they first arrived at IU. and now they are great? That tells me these mediocre players must have developed a lot better under allen than the players who came to Purdue have developed under brohm. and that is a very telling statement about the two coaches if IU 's players have developed more in the past three years than similar or higher ranked players have developed at Purdue.
Allen, Brohm and Fleck all arrived at the same time to their respective schools. This is their 4th year. How many more years are people on this board going to blame hazell for our current lack of success, while giving credit to the two previous coaches at IU and Minn for their current success? Isn't it time each coach was judged on their own ability?
As I look at Purdue's team, Brohm's best year was his first year when he was starting Hazell's supposed misfits. Maybe the cupboard was not as bare as everyone here claims it was. Maybe Hazell actually left brohm a lot more talent than he is being given credit for. Weren't Blough, Bennett, Bailey , and Neal Hazell recruits?
My biggest concern is the continued lack of depth. We have added a lot of talented players. Even if young, they should be at least contributing. Iowa had a freshman offensive lineman who made contributions his first 4 games before being injured and redshirted for the remainder of last year. Purdue has hartwig this year contributing as a freshman. Shouldn't there be more redshirts from last year contributing more this year? or does it take Purdue 2-3 years to develop their players before they can become contributors? I'm not saying our sophomores should be starters, but based on all the previous bashing of our seniors, I believe our sophomores should at least be close to the same level as our starters. and we should be seeing more from our lofty freshmen class. I say this because as i look around at other successful BIG 10 schools, they have sophomores starting and freshmen contributing. People keep making the excuse our team is too young. Well why aren't those players from brohm's first two classes leading the way?
It's become very clear that the first two classes of Fleck and Allen were a lot better than the first two classes of Brohm. Our cupboard was not as bare as many people claim.
Oh I forgot. the injuries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate to say this, but other teams had injuries too. Minnlost their starting qb and had to start a freshman last year. You can't credit Fleck's previous coach for his QB's success last year. Purdue lost neal , but IU lost 3 year starter cronk and found a better replacement. We never seem to talk much about the injury losses other teams suffer.
and I realize it will always take a coach 6 years to develop a solid offensive line. Well, if Brohm had recruited decent ones in those first two years, we wouldn't have to start hartwig this year. Beech was a brohm recruit, not a hazell recruit. As were all the other members of that class. It's obvious Brohm sought a quick fix solution his first year. and it worked. the problem is that first year success using transfers and jucos points out a glaring deficiency. Our player development of highly ranked players is sub standard. Minn's recruits, Iowa's recruits and IU's recruits and Northwestern's were not ranked much higher than Purdue. Yet their development and success on the field has greatly surpassed Purdue.
In saying this, I still expect Purdue to beat both Rutgers and IU. if we don't, i believe people here need to re-assess how great they believe this team is. Minnesota played without 20 players. Sure, Purdue was robbed. But the facts are, that game shouldn't have been close. If we can't beat Rutgers....... then are we really any better now than we were with Hope and hazell? if we can't beat IU, is brohm really any better than Hope?
I trust if we lose, you will use GK's injury as an excuse. but the reality is good teams have players who can step up when injuries occur. Purdue shouldn't have that big of a drop-off between their starters and their second string. That's called depth and player development.
Wolegib, said what I was trying to say. How good are we at developing our players? When are injury and youth excuses going to stop? When is there going to be some accountability shoved to brohm? I live in Iowa and hate the Hawkeyes but they make more with “less” every year. Bowl game after bowl game and the occasional outstanding year. It seems like Purdue is putting the money into the program, the results need to start being there. Wins would be nice but we also need to see the overall improvement. Depth, play making, discipline, ability to adjust both offensively and defensively. All that being said, Boiler Up and POTFH.
It’s a development issue and a taking the easy way out issue
Take Marvin grant. No less talented than Stu. Stu admitted in the big ten network 2000 Purdue special that he was basically a hitter who didnt Know anything.. just like grant. So why did tiller have the stones to start Stu and grant has been sprinkled in here and there?
I’ll tell you why. You see it at every level ...
player 1 - infinitely more talented than player 2, but behind In the playbook and capable of allowing the busted chunk play
player 2 - knows the playbook, is in position, just doesn’t have the talent and so is always a full step behind the play. Opposing coaches will just make a living nickel and diming This player all day ..
conservative coaches count on you being too stupid to realize that they think that the perception is better when they get nickel and dimes ALL DAY than it is if that one busted play ends up on sportscenter.
And that’s what 38 is.. the easy way out. Forget about the fact that coaches get 85 scholarships and that in year four there should be more options than 4 and 38.
and that’s the problem. Brohm came out in year 1 like Allen in year 4. Brohm said “I don’t have anything to lose because at Purdue ... they haven’t had anything consistent in 50+ years.. I’m gonna go for the throat all day.” And ever since that first surprising season he’s coached as though he’s protecting something great. If he bothered turning around he’d realize he’s protecting a dumpster that stands where something great could go.. but there’s nothing to protect. There hasn’t been in 16 years.
now let’s talk about that season.. I do disagree with the idea that the cupboard wasn’t bare. Brohm had a good group of seniors his first year. After that he had horse dung from hazell. And he sustained big losses going into year 2 and 3. But this year, there were none.
also it’s year 4! And they have transfers. How did lovie freaking smith get josh imatorbhebhe and brohm couldn’t work something out at key spots like safety opposite Allen.
if brohm is so hampered by hazell recruiting, then why can’t he hit the transfer wire but Jack tripper up in Minnesota can get micah dew-treadway from Notre Dame? When your transfers suck or you just can’t get them, that’s part of your evaluation dude ..the f, can you imagine if joe tiller could get a grad transfer to replace Kelly butler when he left early? If lovie can get imatorbhebhe then tiller could have gotten a good one.
next is depth... we don’t have a depth problem, we have a starter problem. There not only isn’t a safety opposite Allen coming off the bench. We don’t have a starter. Dedrick Mackey got exploited the last two weeks and he’s a starter. Jalen graham still looks kinda lost and he’s a starter. Yeah watts was out last week but Neal and Johnson are starters who got pushed down the field like none other.
depth really comes into play when you have 22 starters none of whom opposing coaches can punk.
finally expect
Rutgers push
Nebraska big fat win
Indiana loss
Rutgers isn’t as weak as people here think and people here are gonna find out
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