I didn't realize that Gillis laughed at and mocked an opposing player after fouling.
By book, that's a technical foul.
Big Ten Player of the Year- 2 Man Race
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By book, that's a technical foul.
But for me, I'm glad that instead of a double technical, the referees fairly quickly decided to let the players play. These are veteran players and good kids; they vented and were ready to move on.
The refs read the situation correctly and made the right no-call; and the focus stayed on the game, not the referees.
Kelly Pfeiffer is excellent.
All I said was that the Purdue poster's description of what Gillis did was, by definition, also a technical foul:
From the head of college officiating:
Rule 10-5 contains a partial list of illegal unsportsmanlike acts, such as disrespectfully addressing or contacting an official, using profanity, taunting, inciting undesirable crowd reactions, flagrantly contacting an opponent while the ball is dead and fighting or leaving the playing court during a fight.
Adams mentions "minor unsporting indiscretions between opposing players," infractions of Rule 10-5 which are not called, but should be.
Adams instructs referees to "use preventative officiating...but also have very low tolerance for players who violate Article 1, especially when it comes to taunting, baiting, using profanity or threatening gestures towards opponents."
I also firmly believe that the refs did a good job by not calling a technical on Gillis or Jackson-Davis.
yeah, after TJD did his thing Mason didn't say a word---just smiled and pointed towards TJD for what he did. Here is the thing. People that go out of their way to pull a player away from another or attempt to defuse a situation don't get techs. People that raise the heat or are part of the heat get techs. The refs did not call a tech. Apparently the refs did not think the situation (event/rivalry??) warranted a tech.
Okay, but none of this does anything but support that IU has been a bit chippy with players on other teams since TJD got the letter. That is all...I don't wish to see the league get worse in this regard. Game is over...observations filed away... that is all
Edey was being hooked. He wasn't doing the hooking. He fought through the hook. Haas was in the same position when he was tossed to the floor by that goon from CSFU and broke his elbow. You should definitely change your handle to "IMWRONG."It also helps when you can throw dudes to the ground and it's a foul on them... Which is just dirty.
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Gillis did nothing. TJD tried to instigate a fight by bullying after a dead ball. Lucky for TJD, Gillis had some class in the moment. Now get lost, little bro.
I just saw the clip and here it is. NOBODY is going to call a tech with Mason smiling at a guy and pointing out what he did...nobody is going to call that and pretty foolish to think they would. TJD could get a T depending on the official. We know what Matt would have done if it were reversed...that player would have come out quickly I believe and the situation discussed.
Technically should have been an automatic flagrant because Gillis got Reneau in the head.
The refs got it right. It was a hard, not intentional/flagrant, foul on Gillis and I would have expected IU to have done the same thing in that situation. I also don't fault IU's captain and leader stepping up and defending a freshman telling Gillis that sh*t isn't going to fly anymore especially in our house. TJD didn't push or shove Gillis, just got in his face and gave him the business. I guess I've seen technical fouls called for lesser things so TJD being called for one wouldn't have surprised me, but the officials did a phenomenal job of stepping in and further preventing any more chippiness after the fact.
Clear up more of your confusion. If Mason as the clip shows is totally innocent with hand on the ball (and as you state-clean play), what is the reason for "stepping up" ? It was such a joke that Mason smiled and pointed his finger towards the joker.
I said it (tech) was questionable and very confident that other officials may take it different as to whether TJD needed a tech. 1) foolish to pretend Mason needed a tech 2) questionable if TJD would get a tech elsewhere 3) don't need thug life in the Big...as you stated Mason didn't do anything wrong 4) Matt would have handed it different 5) this isn't the only game IU has got chippy since TJD letter
I'm not confused about anything.
Gillis committed a hard, but certainly not a flagrant foul. TJD took exception to the hard foul, got in Gillis face and told him to knock that crap off, refs separated the teams and reviewed for a potential flagrant foul. Refs concluded (appropriately) no flagrant committed...play basketball.
Textbook officiating. They got it right.
Wait innocent? Are you seriously trying to argue that wasn't a foul on Gillis? It wasn't an intentional or flagrant foul by any means, hence "clean" as in common foul, but it was a hard foul nonetheless that TJD took exception too. You could literally watch a basketball game for the rest of eternity and found a "hard" foul that the opposing team takes exception too.
In getting in Gillis's face, TJD clearly chest-bumped Gillis. That's physical contact after the whistle. So, let's at least be intellectually honest when discussing what happened.
I think he simply meant that Gillis played the ball; not that it wasn't a foul.
And I literally said in my initial post that I've seen far less get called for a technical so it wouldn't have shocked me to see TJD get one. But given the context and reaction to a hard foul that had just been committed that didn't escalate into a shoving match after the fact, I thought the officials called it right.
Right. He played the ball which is why a flagrant wasn't called (nor should have been) but it was still a hard foul regardless and one that TJD took exception too.
I believe his other greatest hits from this thread include "if iu finishes within 3 games of Purdue then TJD could win conference POY" and "iu is a blue blood, but Duke needs a special category".
nobody is saying the officials got it right or wrong. There was not going to be a tech on Mason. his play was clean ,which you admit. IF clean then why would TJD have any "knock that crap off"? Are you suppose to get in the face of a "clean" play after bumping the guy with your chest?
You contradict yourself in advocating that Mason was in the clear (which he was...no words...smile and point to the joker) and then support the need for TJD going out of his way to bump into Mason after you already admit and video supports Mason did nothing other than a clean play that provided NO reason for TJD behavior. That is a contradition with your own understandings. Usually contradictions seem confusing and why I thought you were confused.
I said it (tech) was questionable and very confident that other officials may take it different as to whether TJD needed a tech. 1) foolish to pretend Mason needed a tech 2) questionable if TJD would get a tech elsewhere 3) don't need thug life in the Big...as you stated Mason didn't do anything wrong 4) Matt would have handed it different 5) this isn't the only game IU has got chippy since TJD letter
What on Earth? A hard foul is still a hard foul. You're telling me that if Smith or Loyer went up for a layup, got fouled, and took a hard spill a Purdue veteran wouldn't react regardless if the opposing player was going for the ball or not? "Don't foul my guy like that again" was the approach TJD took. I have no issue with it. Officials didn't either. What's the problem?
And yes any person, IU fan or not, saying that Gillis deserved a flagrant or technical in this situation is wrong.
They might react, and they might deserve a tech like TJD clearly deserved a tech.
mathboy:
I've always liked/respected your posting - still do. However, editing someone else's post to make it appear that's what they said is not cool without stating you're doing so (usually with a 'Fixed it for you').
HJM
I've always liked/respected your posting - still do. However, editing someone else's post to make it appear that's what they said is not cool without stating you're doing so (usually with a 'Fixed it for you').
HJM
Good gawd son...I know why I didn't go into teaching. Nobody is saying Mason wasn't going to get a foul. It was a clean play that did not need a chest bump to happen...that is all. You admitted it was a clean play which is supported by video, but then try to excuse TJD for his behavior on a clean play...totally clean...nowhere near a question by a player that has never sought the highlight or been chippy with anyone and yet that person justified TJD approach?
I'm trying to help you see the errors of your expression. I am not arguing if TJD needed a tech. I said some would give him a tech. You "AGAIN" say Mason made a normal basketball play and then forget it was a normal basketball play when you offer "Don't foul my guy like that again" in reference to a normal basketball play. Mason and TJD approached things quite a bit different and Mason would never get a tech for what he didn't do and some might very well Tup TJD. I'm discussing your disconnect in reasoning that is all using your own words...and why I found that reasoning conflicting.
mathboy:
I accidentally deleted the end quote mark. I made no changes to your original post. Here is what I attempted to post in response to your post. Just trying to clarify the sequence of the situation.
I also firmly believe that the refs did a good job by not calling a technical on Gillis or Jackson-Davis. Gillis didn’t laugh until after TJD did his ridiculous chest bump. That's not a tech. Only the chest bump would or should have been called. Gillis’ actions de-escalated the situation.
I accidentally deleted the end quote mark. I made no changes to your original post. Here is what I attempted to post in response to your post. Just trying to clarify the sequence of the situation.
I also firmly believe that the refs did a good job by not calling a technical on Gillis or Jackson-Davis. Gillis didn’t laugh until after TJD did his ridiculous chest bump. That's not a tech. Only the chest bump would or should have been called. Gillis’ actions de-escalated the situation.
I originally thought so too. But if you look at the replay video and stop it at the right point, Gillis goes for the ball, gets the top of it, and then clearly whacks Reneau across the forehead with his forearm. You can see Reneau's head get pushed back as Gillis's arm pushes through the top of the ball and into his forehead.
Nevertheless, my conclusion? Good job by the refs.
Common foul. No techs, no flagrant. Let's play ball.
Gillis did a good job deescalating the situation after he had been physically bumped in a dead ball situation. A lot of players would have responded with a push. I’ve seen brawls result from less. Credit to Gillis.
Because it's still a hard foul nonetheless. We have the benefit of hindsight along with numerous replay angles that can be adjusted at any speed. In real time it looked like an extremely rough play with Reneau taking an egregious and awkward fall. TJD took exception to the nature of the contact which at full speed looked violent.
Technically should have been an automatic flagrant because Gillis
Right, now watch from another angle. Gillis got him in the head. By rule, that's an automatic flagrant.
Jesus Christ dude. The foul by rule was "clean" (meaning not flagrant) but it still doesn't negate the fact that it was a hard foul committed with an IU player in awkward position that lead to a bad fall. God forbid a teammate reacts in the immediate aftermath that was pretty mild all things considered.
Arguing with rival fans is like spitting into a fan, it just blows back at you. IU won on their home court, good win for them. Purdue did not show up in the first half and almost pulled it off, that’s why they are still number one and IU rewarded by moving into top twenty.
TJD is a great player, bigger and more physical now. Edey is tremendous and may be the most improved player in college basketball. Right now Edey is the leader for Big and National player of the year.
You can hate on your rivals best player. However, they both deserve respect, I am sure they respect each others games.
TJD is a great player, bigger and more physical now. Edey is tremendous and may be the most improved player in college basketball. Right now Edey is the leader for Big and National player of the year.
You can hate on your rivals best player. However, they both deserve respect, I am sure they respect each others games.
