Bad Matchup (and other assorted excuses)

[PUBV]

Man if I had a quarter for every time someone said "that teams a bad matchup for us" come tourney time, well let's just say I would have payed someone to perform my housebitch tension relieving pregame chores today. To wax nostalgic, remember back in the keady days, it was the committee dissing us by making us travel too far or too close to the other teams campus. Of course the ref excuse has always been a staple. Anyone have a favorite we've beat to death over the years?
I know I'm a glutton for punishment, but still keeping the faith. Hope the week off gives us a chance to recharge and come out on fire next week

 

[Purdue0034]

What a disappointing game. We definitely won't have any momentum going into the NCAAs now. We will probably get a 6 seed as well. Two free throws away from almost certain victory. We sure picked a bad time to start missing free throws.

 

[ahhculdee]

I hate excuses. I don't understand how some people enjoy losing. I am worn-down and tried of seeing the same thing over and over again. That is the definition of insanity and yes I am insane but still a Purdue fan.

 

[blockm2]

Man if I had a quarter for every time someone said "that teams a bad matchup for us" come tourney time, well let's just say I would have payed someone to perform my housebitch tension relieving pregame chores today.

Sometimes it's whining, sometimes it's just a true statement. I said before both matchups between teams this year (as in yes, pregame made the statement) that they are bad matchups for each other. Very contrasting styles offensively and neither team's defense is optimal for defending the other's offense. Both teams tend to get the looks they want against the other and it's more a contest to see who makes the fewest errors.

 

[TC4THREE]

I hate excuses. I don't understand how some people enjoy losing. I am worn-down and tried of seeing the same thing over and over again. That is the definition of insanity and yes I am insane but still a Purdue fan.

I'd have thought such a big fan might have watched the game.

 

[TC4THREE]

I was at school.

And you didn't watch the game.

 

[tjreese]

Sometimes it's whining, sometimes it's just a true statement. I said before both matchups between teams this year (as in yes, pregame made the statement) that they are bad matchups for each other. Very contrasting styles offensively and neither team's defense is optimal for defending the other's offense. Both teams tend to get the looks they want against the other and it's more a contest to see who makes the fewest errors.

It's a worse matchup for Purdue than Michigan due to Michigan having more length at every spot except when Haas is in there..coupled with the 3 ball today. Michigan is one of the few teams that could play the Bigs without a double and have enough length to stay on the Purdue guards that are not the quickest. Lot of things could have easily put this in the W column, but it never went that way. Michigan without an abundance of overall talent over Purdue is built to attack the Achilles Heel of Purdue. A lot of teams could beat Michigan...that Purdue can beat, but what Michigan has we have all known for some time is a problem for Purdue. Regroup, rest those legs and get ready to play some teams that don't know you. It was great seeing Haas being more of a factor again...that will be good for his confidence...and good to see Carsen scoring...but that back cut on him

 

[nagemj02]

What a disappointing game. We definitely won't have any momentum going into the NCAAs now. We will probably get a 6 seed as well. Two free throws away from almost certain victory. We sure picked a bad time to start missing free throws.

PJ choked at the line in the end of regulation. He has to have the fortitude to make it. Everyone else left points at the line as well. The duo that Painter likes to speak fondly of, in terms of bringing a lot of offensive firepower with their shooting and overall skill (Mathias and Cline) combined for a whopping 6 points. Everyone not named Caleb Swanigan and Isaac Haas (although they both missed FT's as well) needs to get their a$$ in gear and step it up on the offensive end.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

I'd have thought such a big fan might have watched the game.

If the kid happened to catch either of our last 2 NCAA games, then he's seen the game, more or less.

 

[TC4THREE]

If the kid happened to catch either of our last 2 NCAA games, then he's seen the game, more or less.

Wouldn't say that at all. Each of the three game were quite different.

 

[New Pal Boiler]

Wouldn't say that at all. Each of the three game were quite different.

Except for the part where we got tight and lost the lead late. THAT'S the only concern I really have.

 

[blockm2]

It's a worse matchup for Purdue than Michigan due to Michigan having more length at every spot except when Haas is in there..coupled with the 3 ball today. Michigan is one of the few teams that could play the Bigs without a double and have enough length to stay on the Purdue guards that are not the quickest.

Literally no Michigan fan ever said our defense was designed to stop Purdue's post offense with our 2 skinny big guys and a defense that ranked 13th in conference play in opponent 2 point shooting. Heck, when Swanigan and Haas were in the game together Michigan spent quite a bit of it with Zak Irvin having to guard Swanigan giving up 3 inches and 35-40 lbs. The only thing that saved him was those sets were almost always Haas posting with Swanigan up high.

Purdue's offense is a horrible matchup for Michigan's defense with the sheer size and strength down low.

 

[SunnyFL24]

Literally no Michigan fan ever said our defense was designed to stop Purdue's post offense with our 2 skinny big guys and a defense that ranked 13th in conference play in opponent 2 point shooting. Heck, when Swanigan and Haas were in the game together Michigan spent quite a bit of it with Zak Irvin having to guard Swanigan giving up 3 inches and 35-40 lbs. The only thing that saved him was those sets were almost always Haas posting with Swanigan up high.

Purdue's offense is a horrible matchup for Michigan's defense with the sheer size and strength down low.

And you are so correct sir...........but unfortunately we didn't continue to exploit that nearly enough as we should have......kind of reminds me of a football analogy...........when a team is passing the ball over the field successfully, and then go to the running game to keep the other teams defense honest!! When you find a teams weakness exploit the hell out of it all game period!! Hence the reason Mathias and Cline couldn't create shots, Michigan played Man up the whole game on everybody! Both Haas and Biggie should have combined for 50 against them as soft as they were down low............

 

[njm8845]

Basketball is all about matchups. Michigan is a horrible one for us. That's why they beat us easily a couple weeks ago. I think they'd beat us 7 out of 10 times. Nobody else in b10 would beat us more than 4.

I was telling everyone I knew that I'd rather play anyone else in the b10. And that was before the game started.

Still, we should have won. Missed a lot of shots we usually make. That's not on painter. If any of these things happen, we're not having this discussion:
- Mathias makes that layup
- pj hits the free throw
- biggie doesn't pick up weird "box out" foul where Wilson, if anything, went over the back.
- Vince makes any of the seemingly countless bunnies he missed

Point is, it's dumb to just complain and call for the coach's head after one kind of meaningless loss

 

[lbodel]

Wouldn't say that at all. Each of the three game were quite different.

Not to mention we made the championship game in the BTT last year. You can't cherry pick.

 

[tjreese]

Literally no Michigan fan ever said our defense was designed to stop Purdue's post offense with our 2 skinny big guys and a defense that ranked 13th in conference play in opponent 2 point shooting. Heck, when Swanigan and Haas were in the game together Michigan spent quite a bit of it with Zak Irvin having to guard Swanigan giving up 3 inches and 35-40 lbs. The only thing that saved him was those sets were almost always Haas posting with Swanigan up high.

Purdue's offense is a horrible matchup for Michigan's defense with the sheer size and strength down low.

*******************
The reason why Michigans defense was harder on Purdue than others is because those skinny guys had more length and were more athletic than other teams. Michigans length was an advantage in a lot of spots and because of that you saw Michigan not selling out to doubling inside AND because of that...was able to play tighter with Michigan's length on Purdue's perimeter players where most teams double inside and allow the less athletic, but typically good shooting Purdue to have great looks from the outside. Do you think it was an accident that Vince and in a couple of cases Biggie missed point blank shots?

Do you think that Beilien and Meyer were idiots to even begin to think they didn't have to sell out to the inside...which they didn't? If their defensive game plan (a function of who they have) was not capable of defending inside AND outside without attributing more to either...why didn't they sell out to either? Were they idiots? Why the horrible point blank shots that were missed...kinda like what Purdue saw in Louisville...by Purdue? Yes, most teams do not have the athletic length that they do not have to double inside.

Now that was on defense...the worse part was those bigs at Purdue playing in space on defense...where those same athletic players with more length were real threats on teh perimeter...which was a much greater problem than those skinny, taller and more athletic players defending Purdue inside. Unlike football with breaks every few seconds these players have to go both ways in seconds. Now a legitimate debate could be whether Haas should have played more for his effectiveness inside knowing his limitations in space

 

[PaBoiler78]

*******************
The reason why Michigans defense was harder on Purdue than others is because those skinny guys had more length and were more athletic than other teams. Michigans length was an advantage in a lot of spots and because of that you saw Michigan not selling out to doubling inside AND because of that...was able to play tighter with Michigan's length on Purdue's perimeter players where most teams double inside and allow the less athletic, but typically good shooting Purdue to have great looks from the outside. Do you think it was an accident that Vince and in a couple of cases Biggie missed point blank shots?

Do you think that Beilien and Meyer were idiots to even begin to think they didn't have to sell out to the inside...which they didn't? If their defensive game plan (a function of who they have) was not capable of defending inside AND outside without attributing more to either...why didn't they sell out to either? Were they idiots? Why the horrible point blank shots that were missed...kinda like what Purdue saw in Louisville...by Purdue? Yes, most teams do not have the athletic length that they do not have to double inside.

Now that was on defense...the worse part was those bigs at Purdue playing in space on defense...where those same athletic players with more length were real threats on teh perimeter...which was a much greater problem than those skinny, taller and more athletic players defending Purdue inside. Unlike football with breaks every few seconds these players have to go both ways in seconds. Now a legitimate debate could be whether Haas should have played more for his effectiveness inside knowing his limitations in space

I would have liked to see Spike play a little more in the last 10 min.

 

[tjreese]

I would have liked to see Spike play a little more in the last 10 min.

Understandable. Do you have an idea why the coaches didn't use him more? There had to be some reason. I've been a big fan of Spike's court awareness, but as you said you think you would have liked to see him play more than he did adn yet he didn't..right or wrong. Any hunches why...and I certainly don't have an answer.

 

[*4purdue*]

Basketball is all about matchups. Michigan is a horrible one for us. That's why they beat us easily a couple weeks ago. I think they'd beat us 7 out of 10 times. Nobody else in b10 would beat us more than 4.

I was telling everyone I knew that I'd rather play anyone else in the b10. And that was before the game started.

Still, we should have won. Missed a lot of shots we usually make. That's not on painter. If any of these things happen, we're not having this discussion:
- Mathias makes that layup
- pj hits the free throw
- biggie doesn't pick up weird "box out" foul where Wilson, if anything, went over the back.
- Vince makes any of the seemingly countless bunnies he missed

Point is, it's dumb to just complain and call for the coach's head after one kind of meaningless loss

It's not just "one kind of meaningless loss". It's been like the movie Groundhog Day every March and after 12 years, it gets old.

 

[Dryfly88]

I keep seeing people talk about the bad match-up for PU and how UM with their length and athleticism, poses problems for PU. Or how it's easier for the UM coaching staff than PU. Yet with 18 seconds to go PU is at the line with a chance to salt it away and make it a 2 possession game. Simply make 2 FT's and UM is forgotten about and we are talking about Minnesota today.

I just don't think the "match-up" issues were really that big of a deal. DM goes 1-8 (1/6 from 3) team shoots 46% from FT line and yet we have the game in our hands with 18 seconds to go. We simply didn't do the one thing we have been excellent at all year, make FT's. Go 10/13 (our season avg) and game over. Making FT's (or not) had nothing to do with our opponent.

 

[PUQBMan.]

If the kid happened to catch either of our last 2 NCAA games, then he's seen the game, more or less.

Wouldn't say that at all. Each of the three game were quite different.

Except for the only part that matters, not putting a check mark in the win column.

 

[tjreese]

I keep seeing people talk about the bad match-up for PU and how UM with their length and athleticism, poses problems for PU. Or how it's easier for the UM coaching staff than PU. Yet with 18 seconds to go PU is at the line with a chance to salt it away and make it a 2 possession game. Simply make 2 FT's and UM is forgotten about and we are talking about Minnesota today.

I just don't think the "match-up" issues were really that big of a deal. DM goes 1-8 (1/6 from 3) team shoots 46% from FT line and yet we have the game in our hands with 18 seconds to go. We simply didn't do the one thing we have been excellent at all year, make FT's. Go 10/13 (our season avg) and game over. Making FT's (or not) had nothing to do with our opponent.

No question it was Purdue's lack of finish that ultimately resulted in a loss. However, had Purdue not had to extend the D with bigs or able to finish better inside...those FTs don't matter as there was little room for error in that game. Purdue is the best team in the Big against most teams, but Michigan has handed Purdue two losses..although the last one was within reach. Won't surprise me at all for Michigan to win the BTT even though I would think their short bench and fatigue could play a role. Let's hope Purdue can get on a roll...get teh monkey off the back and get some confidence back and do some damage against some teams that don't know Purdue as well...some new blood...

 

[Dryfly88]

No question it was Purdue's lack of finish that ultimately resulted in a loss. However, had Purdue not had to extend the D with bigs or able to finish better inside...those FTs don't matter as there was little room for error in that game. Purdue is the best team in the Big against most teams, but Michigan has handed Purdue two losses..although the last one was within reach. Won't surprise me at all for Michigan to win the BTT even though I would think their short bench and fatigue could play a role. Let's hope Purdue can get on a roll...get teh monkey off the back and get some confidence back and do some damage against some teams that don't know Purdue as well...some new blood...

The reason I focus on the FT's is because it is one thing that is completely in the players control. Advantages or disadvantages anywhere else on the court, refs making or not making calls or even coaching decisions go out the window when a player steps to the foul line. It's not flashy and rarely makes Sports Center, but often is the difference in a close game. Yesterday was a perfect example. No doubt there were some match-ups that didn't favor us, some calls I didn't like and some coaching decisions that could be questioned. Yet simply make 8/13 FT's and game over.

There will no doubt be close game/games in the NCAA. Hopefully we get right back to the FT shooting we have seen all season.

 

[PUBV]

I keep seeing people talk about the bad match-up for PU and how UM with their length and athleticism, poses problems for PU. Or how it's easier for the UM coaching staff than PU. Yet with 18 seconds to go PU is at the line with a chance to salt it away and make it a 2 possession game. Simply make 2 FT's and UM is forgotten about and we are talking about Minnesota today.

I just don't think the "match-up" issues were really that big of a deal. DM goes 1-8 (1/6 from 3) team shoots 46% from FT line and yet we have the game in our hands with 18 seconds to go. We simply didn't do the one thing we have been excellent at all year, make FT's. Go 10/13 (our season avg) and game over. Making FT's (or not) had nothing to do with our opponent.

You get it. I'm speaking to the folks who wave the white flag because the matchup is always a real stinker for Purdue. How do you quantify our opponents matchups > than our matchup advantages over our opponents? As you've said, we easily could have won this game despite the matchup "nightmare!"

 

[tjreese]

The reason I focus on the FT's is because it is one thing that is completely in the players control. Advantages or disadvantages anywhere else on the court, refs making or not making calls or even coaching decisions go out the window when a player steps to the foul line. It's not flashy and rarely makes Sports Center, but often is the difference in a close game. Yesterday was a perfect example. No doubt there were some match-ups that didn't favor us, some calls I didn't like and some coaching decisions that could be questioned. Yet simply make 8/13 FT's and game over.

There will no doubt be close game/games in the NCAA. Hopefully we get right back to the FT shooting we have seen all season.

just as bad and without the pressure was teh wide open point blank layup Dakota missed on the back door cut...not any time to think...just play AND it too missed....

 

[Lionheart1]

As many have noted Swanigan, Haas, Mathias, Thompson, and Cline are not gifted in terms of athleticism and quickness. Seems to me when that many on the floor have trouble in man to man it would be a good idea to have a plan B to try ... zone. What these guys lack in athleticism they offset with knowing how to play the game. Still a zone might help them in some games.

 

[PUBV]

As many have noted Swanigan, Haas, Mathias, Thompson, and Cline are not gifted in terms of athleticism and quickness. Seems to me when that many on the floor have trouble in man to man it would be a good idea to have a plan B to try ... zone. What these guys lack in athleticism they offset with knowing how to play the game. Still a zone might help them in some games.

Just to emphasize your point, just watched a conf tourney game where a team, now mind you this was only 1 possession, started in a 2-3 and switched to man mid possession and frustrated their opponent into a rushed 3 that clanged off the side of the backboard! Variety is the spice of life! Boilerup

 

[tjreese]

Just to emphasize your point, just watched a conf tourney game where a team, now mind you this was only 1 possession, started in a 2-3 and switched to man mid possession and frustrated their opponent into a rushed 3 that clanged off the side of the backboard! Variety is the spice of life! Boilerup

IU did that a LOT last year

 

[PUBV]

IU did that a LOT last year

What say you for or agin?

 

[Dryfly88]

IU did that a LOT last year

TJ: Please don't use IU in any discussion of defense. Please, I beg you.

 

[tjreese]

What say you for or agin?

**************
I think high school players are much more susceptible to changing defenses and zones in general. It is not uncommon in high school games for some coaches to change defense on makes and misses and I'm not just talking presses. I believe that as players get better such as in college, a zone is not as effective overall as in high school and I also believe that changing things has less of an effect than in high school. All that said, I can see that sometimes an adjustment for a possession or two minute stretch might be effective if that defensive adjustment can be altered without some holes. I do not think that whatever the adjustment based upon some sense of surprise requiring perhaps a different offensive approach due to the adjusting defense will be effective for long durations...but as I said...with the right personnel, the right practice a LOT of adjustments could be effective for short durations...AND potentially turn a game....just my opinion as uninformed as it is. Each level of play has things that those playing at the level can do that is different at a different level...part of the reason why Biggie is really good in college and people thinking his pro game would NOT be at a similar level.

I think the biggest need for Purdue is to get more talented players. I love this team and these kids. What articulate, well mannered, responsible kids that should make any Purdue alumni proud to have as public representatives. This group is very unselfish, works very hard, and are very coachable. Seeing them accomplish more with less abilities is satisfying. All those not content with the slow progress from the dark days of 4-5 years ago need to have the debate on talent...not approach because there are a lot of teams in the Big with more talent behind this Purdue team. How much of bringing in talent is the coaches? Out of all the variables...what weighting does the coach actually have and if a small amount in comparison to the totality of possibilities...can the others...the gather of all the other reasons be improved?

Again, any change for a very short duration could be effective if your change is well honed in anticipation that for a possession or so... you can throw them off. Did I answer it? It could work, but depends on a few things and not sure it is the biggest thing in Purdue's short comings...

Rather than switching in the middle of possession from a 2-3 to man...why not just play a match-up ...or were they always in a matchup and just extended it as the clock wound down?

 

[tjreese]

TJ: Please don't use IU in any discussion of defense. Please, I beg you.

sorry ...already posted before I read your plead

 

[boiler-deuce]

Contrary to what some think, I do believe it was a bad matchup. I think we've struggled against those athletic back courts and long mobile front court. Our team is skilled in a way that can be exploited by those type of teams. This is why I called the trip to Mich our toughest remaining game with 5 left. I don't like that match up for us. I also didn't like the match up yesterday and felt we were looking at a very tough game. We certainly had our chances. But, for me....the ending is all that matters. Another late season tourney loss. And, it stinks. And, is getting old.

 

[lbodel]

I keep seeing people talk about the bad match-up for PU and how UM with their length and athleticism, poses problems for PU. Or how it's easier for the UM coaching staff than PU. Yet with 18 seconds to go PU is at the line with a chance to salt it away and make it a 2 possession game. Simply make 2 FT's and UM is forgotten about and we are talking about Minnesota today.

I just don't think the "match-up" issues were really that big of a deal. DM goes 1-8 (1/6 from 3) team shoots 46% from FT line and yet we have the game in our hands with 18 seconds to go. We simply didn't do the one thing we have been excellent at all year, make FT's. Go 10/13 (our season avg) and game over. Making FT's (or not) had nothing to do with our opponent.

I mean, I think the argument is that the reason it was so tight in the first place was the match-up. Purdue did a pretty good job with a bad matchup, but our own foul trouble became a bit of an issue. But yes, it was the free throws that really were the ultimate problem. And our best player was non-existent on the offensive end in the second half.

 

[mediaexpert]

And you are so correct sir...........but unfortunately we didn't continue to exploit that nearly enough as we should have......kind of reminds me of a football analogy...........when a team is passing the ball over the field successfully, and then go to the running game to keep the other teams defense honest!! When you find a teams weakness exploit the hell out of it all game period!! Hence the reason Mathias and Cline couldn't create shots, Michigan played Man up the whole game on everybody! Both Haas and Biggie should have combined for 50 against them as soft as they were down low............

I think you nailed it. We started off with Biggie down low and then when Haas was down low, we CRUSHED them. They had no one to match out strength.

 

[EastCoastBoiler]

Not to mention we made the championship game in the BTT last year. You can't cherry pick.

That's really all he does. Then when he gets called out for the ridiculousness (especially during football season, because he can't grasp statistics and doesn't know shit about the game), he twists himself into a pretzel in order to save face. It's obvious that all he has in life is this board, as evidenced by the sheer frequency of his posts.

 

[mathboy]

That's really all he does. Then when he gets called out for the ridiculousness (especially during football season, because he can't grasp statistics and doesn't know shit about the game), he twists himself into a pretzel in order to save face. It's obvious that all he has in life is this board, as evidenced by the sheer frequency of his posts.

He is a fellow boilermaker. No need to put fuel on this fire. Be more patient and instructive.

 

[EastCoastBoiler]

He is a fellow boilermaker. No need to put fuel on this fire. Be more patient and instructive.

I'd argue that's debatable. Fellow Boilermakers typically use hard data and statistics to draw conclusions (though not 100% of the time). This so-called "Fellow Boilermaker" just opines and disparages anyone who holds an opposing (or even moderately different) perspective. He typically just beats his chest and pontificates onto others in a vain attempt to seek validation. This behavior is typical of those who hold inferiority complexes for whatever reason. I point to the sheer number of his posts, as well as the general tone of those posts, as evidence supporting my assessment.

 

[mathboy]

I'd argue that's debatable. Fellow Boilermakers typically use hard data and statistics to draw conclusions (though not 100% of the time). This so-called "Fellow Boilermaker" just opines and disparages anyone who holds an opposing (or even moderately different) perspective. He typically just beats his chest and pontificates onto others in a vain attempt to seek validation. This behavior is typical of those who hold inferiority complexes for whatever reason. I point to the sheer number of his posts, as well as the general tone of those posts, as evidence supporting my assessment.

I can't Really disagree with you. In defense of some of the short tempers here, we have been inundated with highly negative often emotional posters that seem absent after any win but show up in droves after the occasional loss.

Oddly most of the negative posters espouse wild theories as out why Purdue is not going to win another BB game. Like me, many regular posters here get tired of reading the bullshit and respond in kind.

Do you post after wins? I don't see you here unless we lose , at least that I can recall. Maybe it is reasonable to get you confused with those who are not Purdue fans? Sorry for the mistaken identity. No harm done, but you can easily see how the mistake could be made.

 

[PaBoiler78]

I mean, I think the argument is that the reason it was so tight in the first place was the match-up. Purdue did a pretty good job with a bad matchup, but our own foul trouble became a bit of an issue. But yes, it was the free throws that really were the ultimate problem. And our best player was non-existent on the offensive end in the second half.

wonder what pat riley thought about CS's game yesterday.