At some point this year after this many games, CMP has to think about..

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

whether to bring Vince off the bench and allow Smotherman to start. Vince is just absolutely lost on defense and there is now a history this season that VE is struggling.

Tonight's line for Vince:
1 pt 3rb 3 TO's

Basil:
5pts 3rb 1TO

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

And this isn't a knee jerk reaction...Vince is just really struggling in most games and really at the start of games. His defense has been a huge liability whereas Smotherman brings more athleticism to defend better on the wing.

 

[jadeezra]

He's always been a heck of a player but this is one heck of a slump. I'm so sick of seeing that travel. He's always been a little soft (which is why I don't think he'll ever be in nba) but this year it's just terrible. Hopefully he breaks out of this quick. In order for this team to compete for a bt title he has to regain his old form

 

[dumpsterFyre]

I proposed in the other thread to use a three guard lineup with Carsen. Vince would be the first sub in to spell Isaac.

The bench is a teaching tool, not a punishment if used correctly. Same reason Haas started over AJ last season.

 

[FLAG HUNTER]

I wonder if something isn't going on with V Edwards, like burned out, personal problem or whatever.

 

[FirstDownB]

Hate to oversimplify, but I'll oversimplify..
If VE is playing the 3 and can't put the ball on the floor and be a threat to beat his man off the dribble.. I mean not even consistently beat, just be a threat.. he needs to be playing the 4, which means backing up Biggie and subbing in for Isaac.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

Hate to oversimplify, but I'll oversimplify..
If VE is playing the 3 and can't put the ball on the floor and be a threat to beat his man off the dribble.. I mean not even consistently beat, just be a threat.. he needs to be playing the 4, which means backing up Biggie and subbing in for Isaac.

I think I suggested that in another thread (being lazy and not going through this incredibly short thread honestly). Let Basil start and bring CE and Vince in at the same time for Haas and PJ/Mathias/Smotherman.

 

[BoilerAndy]

Hate to oversimplify, but I'll oversimplify..
If VE is playing the 3 and can't put the ball on the floor and be a threat to beat his man off the dribble.. I mean not even consistently beat, just be a threat.. he needs to be playing the 4, which means backing up Biggie and subbing in for Isaac.

And I hate to pile on VE, but it seems he simply needs to get his head right. But when Haas comes out and Swanigan moves to the center spot, VE needs to move in and play an interior position. Too many times I saw Swanigan under the basket and the other 4 players passing around the perimeter. that killed the rebounding in the 1st half. He's too good of a rebounder not to be mixing it up inside.

 

[JohnnyDoeBoiler]

And I hate to pile on VE, but it seems he simply needs to get his head right. But when Haas comes out and Swanigan moves to the center spot, VE needs to move in and play an interior position. Too many times I saw Swanigan under the basket and the other 4 players passing around the perimeter. that killed the rebounding in the 1st half. He's too good of a rebounder not to be mixing it up inside.

And this goes to my thoughts that the issues that have plagued the program over the last 4-5 years center around CMP being unable to effectively teach his principles so that players have no doubt about what to do on the offensive and defensive end. I think CMP is a very good coach and you can see, when players are tuned in and understand what to do, the schemes work very well. However, hearing CMP yell 'move' so frequently tells me his concepts are either too difficult to understand and apply for most of his players OR CMP doesn't have a good grasp on how to effectively teach his concepts so that the players not only know what to do but comprehend their jobs fully.

 

[Mgkcbb]

Vinces main problem is hes playing out of position. slide him to the four and all of the sudden he will look like an all conference player on both sides of the ball

 

[Emartin70287]

Man, just a year ago everyone said how awesome he could be if he could just play the 3, I heard this over and over, and I was myself a bit intrigued. Watching every game last year he seemed to do very well at the 3, and the 4. Solid defense and offensively with many "glue guy" things he did. Now everyone wants to bitch that he can't play the 3 now, and how he must go back to playing 4. Lets let the season unfold just a bit. Maybe our expectations were too high, he is still scoring 10 points a game, and has plenty of time to turn it on.

 

[BoilerDeac]

Hate to oversimplify, but I'll oversimplify..
If VE is playing the 3 and can't put the ball on the floor and be a threat to beat his man off the dribble.. I mean not even consistently beat, just be a threat.. he needs to be playing the 4, which means backing up Biggie and subbing in for Isaac.

but that won't happen because Haas sat behind Hammons for 2 years, consequently paying his dues and earning himself a starting role, and Biggie was basically promised that they'd let him play the 4.

Purdue has so much talent, and it's being utilized sub-optimally because of stupid things like promises and what a player has "earned."

HOT TAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FirstDownB]

but that won't happen because Haas sat behind Hammons for 2 years, consequently paying his dues and earning himself a starting role, and Biggie was basically promised that they'd let him play the 4.

Purdue has so much talent, and it's being utilized sub-optimally because of stupid things like promises and what a player has "earned."

HOT TAKE!!!!!!!!!!!

You've got a point. The risk of making changes at this point is bruised egos. Some will be motivated. But some may sulk. I hope we don't have any of the latter but can't say for sure. I will say that although Biggie was promised to play the 4 his freshman year, looking at the roster there was no reasonable expectation that he wouldn't play some 5 this year. Then Taylor going down sealed it.

Put me in the camp that has always seen VE as more of a stretch 4. I believe Basil has more lateral quickness and is less of a liability guarding the 3. And there aren't many teams. on the schedule with big 3's that are going to post up Mathias.

Seems a reasonable minutes distribution for 4-5 positions would be:
Haas 24
Biggie 34
VE 24

1-3 something like:
Mathias 24
Edwards 24
Smotherman 22
PJ 22
Spike 14
Cline 14

 

[Mgkcbb]

You've got a point. The risk of making changes at this point is bruised egos. Some will be motivated. But some may sulk. I hope we don't have any of the latter but can't say for sure. I will say that although Biggie was promised to play the 4 his freshman year, looking at the roster there was no reasonable expectation that he wouldn't play some 5 this year. Then Taylor going down sealed it.

Put me in the camp that has always seen VE as more of a stretch 4. I believe Basil has more lateral quickness and is less of a liability guarding the 3. And there aren't many teams. on the schedule with big 3's that are going to post up Mathias.

Seems a reasonable minutes distribution for 4-5 positions would be:
Haas 24
Biggie 34
VE 24

1-3 something like:
Mathias 24
Edwards 24
Smotherman 22
PJ 22
Spike 14
Cline 14

Or just quit worrying about having a deep rotation and go with 8 guys

Start swanigan at his natural position (center), vince at his natural position (4), play basil at the 3 since he can defend, unlike alot of the players Painter keeps playing, and then trot out PJ and Carsen.

One of Mathias or Cline is going to be left out - who cares? Thats life, it sucks sometimes.

Swanigan
Vince
Basil
Carsen
PJ

Haas, Spike, Mathias off the bench

Cline relegated to mop up minutes

 

[mathboy]

I think it is weird to read that we need to bench Hass, the most dominant center we have, then play Biggie a center (clearly, something he does not want to do, and won't do in the NBA), We are doing this... why? Because we couldn't hit open 3's in the first half against L'Ville? Okay. I am sure it makes sense somewhere.

How about this...

We start Haas at the 5 for his physical dominance
Swanigan at the 4 (his natural position in an NBA team)
Basil at the 3 for defensive purposes (We lose some scoring without VE)
Mathias for his 3-pt shooting, his defense, and his ability to make great entry passes
PJ starts as the steadying influence, and his ability to make the open 3-pt shot

We bring VE off the bench when any of the front line comes out
Carsen and Cline play off the bench if they are hot. They subs for Mathias.
Spike and PJ hold down the PG position.

Please recognize that we will not hold any team scoreless. They will score on us. We just need to score more.

 

[*4purdue*]

whether to bring Vince off the bench and allow Smotherman to start. Vince is just absolutely lost on defense and there is now a history this season that VE is struggling.

Tonight's line for Vince:
1 pt 3rb 3 TO's

Basil:
5pts 3rb 1TO

If your argument is that BS has been a good defender this year then I guess we're watching different games. I've seen BS get beat off the dribble drive game after game this year. He looks alot slower to me then he was 2 years ago. I agree that VE should go to the bench, but BS is not the answer. This team doesn't have & probably won't have a defensive stopper this year. I think our best lineup is a 3 guard attack with CE, DM & PJ. Let VE & BS come off the bench.

 

[BoilerBulldog]

I think it is weird to read that we need to bench Hass, the most dominant center we have, then play Biggie a center (clearly, something he does not want to do, and won't do in the NBA), We are doing this... why? Because we couldn't hit open 3's in the first half against L'Ville? Okay. I am sure it makes sense somewhere.

How about this...

We start Haas at the 5 for his physical dominance
Swanigan at the 4 (his natural position in an NBA team)
Basil at the 3 for defensive purposes (We lose some scoring without VE)
Mathias for his 3-pt shooting, his defense, and his ability to make great entry passes
PJ starts as the steadying influence, and his ability to make the open 3-pt shot

We bring VE off the bench when any of the front line comes out
Carsen and Cline play off the bench if they are hot. They subs for Mathias.
Spike and PJ hold down the PG position.

Please recognize that we will not hold any team scoreless. They will score on us. We just need to score more.

I'm not for benching Haas but he has to start being a stronger rebounder. He's never in position to rebound.

 

[proudopete]

I'm not for benching Haas but he has to start being a stronger rebounder. He's never in position to rebound.

I agree that in some games, it would be better to being Haas in off the bench. He needs to be more agressive and stop worrying about having fouls called. Fouling himself to the bench is no different than him playing and being ineffective. At times, when he is turning it over, it becomes more of a detriment. Have him watch some Scheffler tape on an iPad while he is waiting to go in so he understands his advantages over everyone else.

 

[Dakota Girl]

I think I suggested that in another thread (being lazy and not going through this incredibly short thread honestly). Let Basil start and bring CE and Vince in at the same time for Haas and PJ/Mathias/Smotherman.

CE needs to play and play a lot. I can't see starting Basil over Carsen.

 

[tjreese]

And this goes to my thoughts that the issues that have plagued the program over the last 4-5 years center around CMP being unable to effectively teach his principles so that players have no doubt about what to do on the offensive and defensive end. I think CMP is a very good coach and you can see, when players are tuned in and understand what to do, the schemes work very well. However, hearing CMP yell 'move' so frequently tells me his concepts are either too difficult to understand and apply for most of his players OR CMP doesn't have a good grasp on how to effectively teach his concepts so that the players not only know what to do but comprehend their jobs fully.

Just a thought, but I wonder if he would ever yell move to Troy Lewis? A lot of players today don't know what to do without the ball in their hands

 

[njm8845]

I think it is weird to read that we need to bench Hass, the most dominant center we have, then play Biggie a center (clearly, something he does not want to do, and won't do in the NBA), We are doing this... why? Because we couldn't hit open 3's in the first half against L'Ville? Okay. I am sure it makes sense somewhere.

How about this...

We start Haas at the 5 for his physical dominance
Swanigan at the 4 (his natural position in an NBA team)
Basil at the 3 for defensive purposes (We lose some scoring without VE)
Mathias for his 3-pt shooting, his defense, and his ability to make great entry passes
PJ starts as the steadying influence, and his ability to make the open 3-pt shot

We bring VE off the bench when any of the front line comes out
Carsen and Cline play off the bench if they are hot. They subs for Mathias.
Spike and PJ hold down the PG position.

Please recognize that we will not hold any team scoreless. They will score on us. We just need to score more.

Agree. Benching haas removes the most unique part of our team. Other teams have to adjust how they play because of him more than any player in the b10. Even if he isn't scoring or rebounding, it's usually because he's drawing so much attention. If other players can't move the ball or hit open shots, that's not haas' fault.

 

[SnowLeopard]

If your argument is that BS has been a good defender this year then I guess we're watching different games. I've seen BS get beat off the dribble drive game after game this year. He looks alot slower to me then he was 2 years ago. I agree that VE should go to the bench, but BS is not the answer. This team doesn't have & probably won't have a defensive stopper this year. I think our best lineup is a 3 guard attack with CE, DM & PJ. Let VE & BS come off the bench.

thats because Basil is playing at 235 lb, and Vince at 225. Both players are asked to play both forward positions. If you assign Vince primarily to the 4 and up his playing weight to 230, and assign Basil primarily to the 3 with a playing weight of 225......you will see Basil add another gear and Vince hold up better in the interior.

Its only Dec. A 5-10 lb weight adjustment in 3 months is nothing